---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/04/03: 62 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:24 AM - A Special Thank You - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 01:33 AM - Re: ADB (GeoR38@aol.com) 3. 03:31 AM - Flying Aces! (Duncan McBride) 4. 04:50 AM - Re: Kolb List Activity (ronnie wehba) 5. 05:02 AM - Re: enclosure (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com) 6. 05:29 AM - enclosure (bryan green) 7. 05:34 AM - What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Jim Gerken) 8. 05:41 AM - Flying Aces (bryan green) 9. 05:58 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (bryan green) 10. 06:15 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Kirk Smith) 11. 07:26 AM - Airfoil Software Programs (Doug Lawton) 12. 07:40 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Guy Morgan) 13. 07:52 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Guy Morgan) 14. 08:09 AM - What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (John Hauck) 15. 08:11 AM - Re: Surprise (Larry Bourne) 16. 08:22 AM - Re: Airfoil Software Programs (Don Gherardini) 17. 08:23 AM - Mark III Classic Launch (Bill Elder) 18. 08:23 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Larry Bourne) 19. 08:32 AM - Re: monument valley 2004 (boyd young) 20. 08:32 AM - Re: geting rid of spam (boyd young) 21. 08:36 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (ronnie wehba) 22. 08:57 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Kirk Smith) 23. 09:01 AM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (John Hauck) 24. 09:12 AM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (Edward Chmielewski) 25. 09:41 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (John Hauck) 26. 09:44 AM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Kelvin Kurkowski) 27. 10:01 AM - Re: Hauck/rotax912/Warp List (Hans vanAlphen) 28. 10:03 AM - Spam (Terry Davis) 29. 10:21 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Bob Noyer) 30. 10:23 AM - Enclosure (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com) 31. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: geting rid of spam (Bob Noyer) 32. 10:35 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Richard Pike) 33. 10:42 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (CaptainRon) 34. 10:47 AM - fix for spam (Paul Petty) 35. 10:55 AM - Re: Spam (jam'n) 36. 11:25 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Jack & Louise Hart) 37. 11:35 AM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Jim Clayton) 38. 12:03 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (Denny Rowe) 39. 12:49 PM - Re: Airfoil Software Programs (Christopher Armstrong) 40. 12:54 PM - as the smoke clears (Paul Petty) 41. 12:55 PM - Re: Enclosure (bryan green) 42. 01:05 PM - Re: Spam (Don Gherardini) 43. 01:18 PM - Re: Spam (CaptainRon) 44. 01:20 PM - Re: Spam (J.D. Stewart) 45. 01:51 PM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (Guy Morgan) 46. 02:09 PM - Re: MV 2004 - I'm in (SGreenpg@aol.com) 47. 02:09 PM - Dammspam (woody) 48. 02:24 PM - building (Paul Petty) 49. 03:28 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (Duncan McBride) 50. 05:25 PM - Building instructions (Scott Olendorf) 51. 05:25 PM - Fw: Sponson attach for Firestar wing (Scott Olendorf) 52. 05:35 PM - Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar (Scott Olendorf) 53. 05:53 PM - Top ten listers (Scott Olendorf) 54. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: getting rid of spam (jerb) 55. 06:04 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (Larry Bourne) 56. 06:11 PM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Larry Bourne) 57. 06:18 PM - Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (Larry Cottrell) 58. 06:47 PM - Re: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar (bryan green) 59. 07:31 PM - Re: Mark III Classic Launch (James and Cathy Tripp) 60. 08:56 PM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (GeoR38@aol.com) 61. 09:49 PM - Re: Prop Clearance (DAquaNut@aol.com) 62. 10:02 PM - Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? (GeoR38@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:27 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: A Special Thank You - List of Contributors --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser was pleasantly successful and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these Lists! Below you will find the complete list of this year's Contributors. Its these great guys that make it all possible! All of the List members owe these special people a debt of gratitude. I would also like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) for again this year providing free and substantially discounted merchandise in support of the Fund Raiser. Andy is a great guy and I encourage you to check out his very nice web site. Thanks again, Andy!! For those of you that ordered gifts with your Contribution, I will be shipping these out over the next few weeks as the merchandise arrives and as I can get all of the orders processed. Its quite a job so I appreciate your patience! I hope to have everything on its way by the end of the month if not sooner. If you would still like to make a Contribution to support the Lists, please feel free to do so! If you'd like to receive one of the awesome free gifts, they will be available on the web page though the end of the month. The Contribution web page can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Finally, I would like to once again sincerely thank each and everyone of you that took the time to make a Contribution to support the Lists this year! Your kind support greatly appreciated! THANK YOU! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Adamson, Arden Akin, Thomas Alber, John Alexander, Don Alexander, George Allender, Pat Allison, Steven Amick, Michael Amundsen, Blair Anderson, Douglas Anderson, Edward Andrews, Myles Anthony, Bruce Applefeld, Gerald Aronson, David Aschliman, Jim Atkinson, Harold Austin, Peter Avant, David Ayers, Jim Babb, Tony Bahrns, Stan Bailey, Rick Baker, Gary Baker, James Baker, Owen Baker, Roger Bales, Robert Ballenger, Jim Balmer, G Banus, Mark Barnett, William Barrie, Darwin Barter, Thomas Basiliere, Richard Bataller, Gary Batte, W.Granville Bean, James Bean, Robert Beard, Harley Becker, Charles Bell, BruceB. Belted, Air Power, Ltd Benham, Dallas Benjamin, Hal Benson, Lonn Benson, Lonnie Berg, Wayne Bergeron, Daniel Bernard, William Berner, Walter Bernier, Jim Berry, Bruce Bertelli, John Bertrand, Carl Berube, Bob Bezzard, Richar Bidle, Jerry Bieberdorf, Roger Bish, Dan Blackwell, Charles Blake, Peter Blank, Steven Blomgren, Jack Bohannon, Larry Bond, Charles Bonsell, Edward Booze, Greg Borne, Chuck Bosomworth, David Boucher, Michel Boulet, Paul Bourne, Larry Bowen, Larry Bowhay, Eustace Brame, Charles Branstrom, Dan Brasch, Glenn Breckenridge, Bruce Brick, John Brogley, Michael Brooks, Chris Brooks, John Brooks, Ken Brooks, William Broomell, Glenn Brown, Gerald R. Bruce, L.B. Bruch, Stein Brunke, Judy Buchanan, Sam Buchmann, Kenneth Buess, Alfred Bullock, Jack Bumhoffer, Al Burke, James Burks, Terrell Burns, John Burton, Charlie Burton, James Burton, Ron Butcher, James Butcher, Ron Butler, Francis Butterfield, John Buyse, Lieven Calhoun, Ron Calloway, Terry Campbell, Greg Cann, Robert Cantrell, Jimmy Capen, Ralph Capra, Salvatore Cardell, William Carden, Richard CarillonSr., Paul Carney, William Carpenter, Kenneth Carr, David Carroll, Randy Carson, Rowland Carter, David Cary, William Challgren, Stanley Chambers, Ken Champ, Nicolas Chandler, Charles Chandler, John Ciolino, John Clark, James Clark, John Clarkson, Scott Clayton, James Cliff, John Cloud, Ralph Clyma, Frank Cochran, Jerry Coffey, John Coggins, Michael Cole, Gary Cole, Gerry Colley, Larry Colucci, Tony Combined, Merchants Combs, Doyle Comer, Dave Comfort, Gordon Compton, Scott Conaway, James Condrey, Bob Cone, James Connell, Joseph Conrad, Gerald Conti, Richard Cook, Craig Cooley, John Cooper, James Corbalis, Leo Corbette, Claude Corder, Michael Corner, Jim Cotter, Tim Cotton, David Cottrell, Larry Coulter, Carlin Coursey, William Courtney, Dean Courtney, James Couture, Wayne Cribb, William Croke, Jon Crook, Tracy Crosby, Harry Crosley, Richard Cruikshank, Bruce D'Onofrio, John Dalstrom, Douglas Dalton, Bob Daniel, Karie Danielsen, HansJurgen Darby, Frank Daudt, Larry Davenport, Jimmy Davidson, Adam And Janet Davidson, Jeff Davies, Brian Davis, Charles Davis, Chris Davis, Nathan Davis, Peter Davis, Terry Dawson , Clif Dawson, Garth DeJong, Jan Dearinger, William Decramer, Dick Deford, David Denham, Bob Dennis, Chris Derouchey, Bill Desmond, Richard Devaney, Bob Devere, Al Diehl, Don Diffenbaugh, Scott Disher, John Dixon, Thomas (Steve) Dominy, Ken Donaldson, Norman Doran, Thomas Dresden, Robert Driscoll, Patrick Dube, Bill Dudley, Richard Duffy, Russell Dukerich, Thomas Dumoret, Paul Eagleston, Ron Eckel, John Edwards, Garland Edwards, Joseph Eginton, William Eli, Robert Ellenberger, Mike Elliott, Andrew Ellison, Craig Enga, Wallace Engh, Duncan Enns, Dennis Erb, Bob Erickson, Alan Erickson, Gerald Erikson, Donald Ervin, Tom Erwin, Chip Esterhuizen, Deon Etherington, Al Evans, Walt Evenson, Roger Fackler, Ken Faris, Kevin Farmer, Daniel Fasching, John Feldmann, StephenW. Ferrer, Gabriel Finley, John Finley, Jon Fischer, Doug Fishe, JF Fisher, Dru Fisher, Michael Fisher, Tom Fitzpatrick, Robert Flamini, Dennis Flavin, John Fleck, Joe Foerster, James Fogerson, Richard Forrest, Gerald Fox, Byron Franz, Carl Frazier, Ford Frazier, Vince Friedland, Thomas Frizzell, Alex Frye, Dwight Fulgham, W.R. Fulmer, JosephA Fux, Franz Gagnon, Laurent Gagnon, Tim Galati, Rick Gallagher, Noel Galley, Cy Gantzer, Charles Gardner, Albert Gardner, Terrence Garner, Mitchell Gates, Leo Gawronski, Brian Gaylen Lerohl, Terminaltown Geldermann, Dan Genzlinger, Reade George, William Gerken, James German, Mark Gernetzke-hays, Jill Gherardini, Don Giacona, William Giddens, Gerald Gillespie, Dick Giusti, Roberto Glass, Roy Golden, Shane Gonzalez, Jorge Goode, Richard Goodings, John Goodman, David Goolsby, JamesE. Gordon, Keith Gott, Shelby Goudinoff, Peter Gowing, John Grabb, Gary Graber, Joel Graham, Gary Graham, Jim Graham, W.Doyce Grant, Jordan Grebe, David Green, Luther Green, Roger Greenough, Jim Gregory, Michael Griffin, Bill Griffin, James Griffin, Robert Grosse, John Gustafson, Aaron Haertlein, Frank Hagar, Steve Haley, Gary Hallsten, Keith Hamer, Steve Hamilton, William J Hand, Chris Hankins, Roger Hankinson, Jimmy Harbour, Keith Hardaway, Mike Harding, Joel Harmon, John Harrison, Nigel Hartwig, Richard Harvey, Dale Hasper, Jim Hatch, Pat Hatcher, Edmund Hatfield, Cecil Jr. Hauck, JohnR Haynes, Joel Heath, Donald Hefner, Jim Heindl, Karl Heitman, Christopher Helming, Larry Heritch, Ian Herminghaus, John Herren, Bill Hetrick, Dale Heykoop, John Hibbing, William Hill, Jeff Hill, Ken Hill, Stanley A Himes, Joe Hinrichsen, Jim Hodgson, Mark Hodgson, Robert Hoffman, Carl Hoffman, Curtis Hoffmann, Thomas Hohos, Charles Holifield, Steve Holland, Mike Holland, Rick Holmes, Tom Hood, Bill Hooper, Gerald Hooper, Randy Horton, Kevin Hostetler, Donald Howell, Pete Howerton, Bill Hubbard, Eugene Hudson, Jeff Hueltz, Wolfgang Huff, Scott Huft, John Hughes, Robert Hulen, Fred Humbert, Robert Humes, Hubert Humes, Hugh Humphrey, Roger Hunt, Peter Hunt, Wallace G Hurd, James Hurst, Kingsley Hutchison, Tom Hyde, David Ice, Michael Iddon, Richard Irvin, Robert Isler, Jerry Jackson, Kevin Jacobson, Marshall Jannakos, Gregory Jaussi, Curtis Jenkins, John Jensen, Jerry Jewell, James Johannsson, Johann G. John Allen Hurn, Hurns Aircraft Johnsen, Svein Johnson, Bruce Johnson, Dale Johnson, Dennis Johnson, Les Johnson, Murray Johnson, Robert Johnston, Stephen Jones, Eric Joosten, Craig Jordan, JR Joyce, David Jurotich, Matthew Kahn, Steve Kaluza, Charles Karmy, Andrew Kaser, Jim Kayner, Dennis Kellum, Mark Kempthorne, Hal Kent, John Kerr, John Kerr, Joseph Kesterton, Donald Kilburg, Larry Killion, Clay Kimsey, Thomas Kinney, Kevin Kirby, Graham Kirk, Tony Knepper, Harold Knoll, Lynn Kohn, Carl Koonce, R.L. Kosta, Michael Kottke, Dwight Kovac, Harold Kramer, Ed Krasinski, Jerzy Krok, Peter Krueger, Grant Kunkel, Fred Kuntz, Paul Kyle, Fergus Lahey, Jim Laird, Dave Laishes, Jeff Lally, Sean Lalonde, Bart Landucci, Larry Lannon, W. Lasecki, Robert Laurie, Kip Laverty, Charles Lavigne, Pat Lawliss, James Lawrence, Derek Lawton, John Ledbetter, Gene Ledoux, Paul Lee, Terrence Lefler, Fabian Lekven, Carl Lemen, Ted Lenton, Dennis Leonard, Nicolas Leslie, George Lewis, Terry Lewis, Tim Licking, Larry Lifer, Craig Liming, Gary Linebaugh, Jeff Linse, Michael Lloyd, Brian Long, Charles Long, Eugene Long, Patrick Loubert, Gary Mack, Don Mackay, Alex Madden, Peter Magsam, Del Mahr, Egon Mains, Ralph Malich, Gunter Markle, Jim Markwell, Cleone Marshall, F.R. Marshall, Nigel Marson, Thomas Martin, Bryan Martin, Clifford Martin, Richard Mason, Ron Matteson, Robert Maxson, Phillip Maynor, Troy Mcallister, Paul Mcbride, Duncan Mccallister, Donald Mccallum, Bob Mccutchan, Bruce Mcfarland, Larry Mcfarland, Randy Mcfarlane, Lloyd Mcgregor, Bruce Mcintosh, Wayne Mcintyre, Jay Mckervey, Joseph Mcleod, Neil Mcmanus, Jim Medeiros, Joel Meehan, Don Mekeel, DonaldE Melenyzer, Charles IV Merchant, Dean Merrill, Dj Messinger, Paul Meyette, Brian Michel, Riazuelo Miller, David Miller, Mark Miller, Robert Miller, Warren Mills, Moe Mills, William Milner, Gregory Milner, Red Mineart, Stephen Mitchell, HD Moak, Ken Montagne, Raymond Montgomery, Dale Moore, David Moore, Glenn Moore, Marbert Moore, Warren Morawski, Brett Morelli, William Morin, Mauri Morrison, Douglas Morrison, Malcolm Morrow, Dan Mosher, Doc Mosier, Colby Mrotzek, Dan Muegge, James Murphy, George Murray, Ronald Murrill, Robert Myers, John Myhra, Donald Nascimento, Marcio Nash, Simon Neilsen, Richard Nelson, William Nicely, Vincent Nickless, Jim Nickson, Dennis Nolan, Jim North, Wheeler Noyer, Robert Nyman, Stephen O'Brien, Dan O'Donnell, David O'Reilly, Colm Oberst, James Oconnor, Edward Ohlinger, Judith Ohlinger, Mark & Judy Okeefe, Lawrence Oldford, David Olendorf, James Orear, Jeff Otaola, Ricardo Ouellette, Will Overall, Dana Owens, Duane Owens, Phil Packard, Tom Parker, Dennis Parks, Dann Partyka, LeeM Patsey, Kevin Patterson, Ron Payne, Craig Payne, Ron Pelletier, Dave Perez, M. Domenic Perkins, Stan Perry, John Petaccia, Ettore Peterson, Alex Peterson, David Peterson, Paul Petri, David Pettey, Don Petty, Paul Pflimlin, Paul Pfundt, Jan Phillips, Mark Phillips, Russell Pierce, Tony Pike, Richard Pilling, Kevin Pinkston, Gordon Plecenik, Michael Pocock, Graham Point, Jeff Porter, Richard Potter, Lee Powell, Jim Powell, Ken Preston, Douglas Pritchard, Roger Proctor, Joe Puckett, Greg Puglise, James Rabaut, Charles Raby, Ron Randolph, George Ray, Rick Ray, Rob Reading, Thomas Sr Red Dragon Aviation Reeck, Kris And Art Reel, David Reese, Wayne Reeves, William Reimer, Curt Render, James Repucci, William Reuschle, Jeffrey Reusser, Hans-Peter Reynolds, Richard Rice, James Richards, Stephen Richardson, Colin Richardson, Scott Richter, Randall Rickard, Ian Rickman, Loy Rigby, David Riley, Stuart Ringrose, Andrew Robert, Nuckolls Roberts, Gary Roberts, Jeffrey Roberts, John Rodebush, James Rodriguez, Paul Roehr, Mike Romine, Chris Ross, Chris Ross, William Rourke, John Rozendaal, Doug Russell, E.Frank Russell, Jack Russell, Keith Ryan, Mike Sa, Carlos Saffold, Michael Sager, Truman Salter, Phillip Sanders, Andrew Sapp, Doug Sargent, Thomas Satterlee, Robert Sax, Samuel Schaefer, Steven Schertz, William Schieber, Cedrdic Schilling, Karl Schlafly, Fred Schlatterer, Bill Schmidt, Gregory Schmidt, John & Patty Schneider, Werner Schnitzlein, C.E. Schoenberger, H.Robert Schrimmer, Mark Schroeder, Fire Schroeder, John Schumacher, Roger Scott, James Scott, Troy Scroggs, Ross Seaford, Jack Seal, John Selby, Jim, Sr. & Jr. Selinger, Carsten Selix, Richard Setser, David Settlemyer, Art Shank, William Shaw, Cliff Shepherd, Dallas Shepherd, Stanislaus Shipley, Rob Shipley, Walt Shipp, Garry Shumaker, Robert Siegfried, Bob Sigmon, Harvey Silvanic, Ed Simmons, Kendall Simpkins, Shaun Simpson, Randy Sinclair, Michael Sipp, Richard Skelly, Brian Sletten, Mark Sloan, Alex Smith, Danny L Smith, David Smith, Edmond Smith, Gene Smith, Kirk Smith, Lloyd Smith, Rodney Smith, Ronald Smith, Simon Snedaker, Robert Sobel, Martin Solecki, John Sorensen, Kent Sorensen, Lance Spainhower, Craig Sparks, Timothy Spence, Stephen Spencer, Russell Springer, Jerry Staley, Dick Starn, John H. "kabong" Stewart, Michael Stewart, Paul Stewart, Shannon Stone, Christopher Stout, Randall Strawn, David Strong, Gary Strong, Tom Stuart, Clay Sutterfield, Stan Swaney, Mark Swanson, Ronald Swartzendruber, David Sweeney, Timothy Swinford, George Szantho, JohnB. Szarafinski, Roy Szentmiklosi, Mark Tarmar, Brian Tasker, Richard Textor, Jack Thesee, Gilles Thomas, Bruce Thomas, Gummo Thomas, Lee Thomason, Michael Thompson, Scott Thomure, Randall Thwing, Randy Titcomb, Edward Tomlin, Thomas Tower, John Tracy, Roger Trainer, Dave Trombley, Erich Trost, Sebastian Trumpfheller, Bob Tuton, Beauford Twigg, Alan Tyler, George Unruh, Brian Unternaehrer, Rolf Utter, Bob Van Winkle, Dean VanHeeswijk, Jack VanHeuveln, Lemar VanSchoonhoven, Peter Vanartsdalen, Scott Vandenbroek, Martin Vangrunsven, Stan Vaughan, Cye Vaughn, John Verdev, Victor Vervoort-Woestenburg, Jef Vincent, Bill Vogt, Gary VonRuden, Dennis Vormbaum, John Voss, Richard Vranken, Karel Wagoner, Richard Waldal, Art B. Walker, Dale Walker, Tommy Walker, Weston Walrath, Howard Walsh, Denis Ward, Timothy Washburn, Oliver Watson, Richard Watson, Terrence Watters, Daniel Weaver, Erich Weaver, Fred Webb, Randol Weber, Edward Webster, Tom Weese, Brian Weiler, Douglas Whelan, Thomas Whiteley, Kenneth Whiteside, Eric Whittier, Lavoy (aka Bucky) Wigney, John Wiley, Robert Williams , John Williams, Hildred Williams, Jeff Williams, Lawrence Williams, Terry Williamson, John Willig, Louis Wilson, Christopher Wilson, Kelly Wimmer, Thomas Wingard, David Winings, James Winne, Edward Woboril, David Wood, Frank Wood, Larry Woods, Donald Woods, Harold Wright, Roy Wsiaki, Michael Wymer, Jerry Yager, Jack Yamokoski, William Young, Rollin Zaric, Radomir Zheng, Andrew Zilik, Gary Zinkham, Ralph Zollinger, Duane Zuniga, Oscar ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:21 AM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ADB --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/03 10:04:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: > > But their concern over the squadron > >leader's statements was cut short by the scream of a dozen overlean > >twostrokes diving on Surly-St. Gantt, Spandaus rattling... > > > > > >To be continued.. > > Morning Gang: > > Come on Duncan. What's gonna happen next. :-) > > john h > > PS: Got up laughing with my first cup of coffee this > morning, as I read the adventures by Duncan McBride. > The Adventures of Duncan McBride....or ADB....since moving to the Villages in Florida a month or so ago, I joined a group called the Hangar Flyers here...ol WWII warriers, and Vietnam, and Korea... and was wondering what they did. Well, Hangar flyers tell stories...and I WANNA TELL YOU, all are very interesting indeed, primarily because each story reveals a little of the life that that person lived in reality or the mind, only. Story telling is an art...and ADB appears to have been honed already! George Randolph Firestar driver Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:50 AM PST US From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Aces! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" All the pilots scatter as a hail of bullets strike the turf around their planes! The scream of the racing engines is pierced by the rattle of the guns and they dive for cover. "Up and at 'em, boys!" Squadron Leader Hawk dragged Pilot Officer Green to his feet and pushed him towards his Twinstar. Untangling pilots Bickham and Williamson he points them in the direction of their kites and rushes to his own brightly painted fighter, Miss P'fer. All the pilots scramble for their craft in a mad rush to take off before the enemy squadron can return for a second pass. But the Tuned-Port Circus doesn't circle to follow up on their surprise attack, and disappears over the horizon, the dentist's drill scream of their exhaust slowly receding in the morning mist. Only then do the pilots notice the pair of boots in the center of the field. Squadron Leader Hawk leaped out of his scout and leads his men to the scuffed footgear. From the boots he pulls a white note and reads aloud to the assembled pilots, "Reims at 10? Some have to wait that long for their sleepy engines to warm their crankcase. We don't" Hawk tosses the boots in the back of his Twinstar. "All right boys, let's go." The pilots return to their planes and the squadron takes off for the fateful rendevous. ............ The squadron circles in echelon formation over Reims. It is 10 AM. Squadron Leader Hawk scans the clear morning skies, but no other planes are in sight. He signals to his wingman that they'll continue to wait. But no planes appear. Circling until they have only enough fuel to return to base, the squadron never sees another fighter. Determined to continue the battle, the squadron returns to Surly-St. Gantt to refuel. But instead of the usual sleepy aerodrome, they find chaos. The chateau they had made their quarters was a smoking ruin! Quickly they land to find the mechanics still trying to put out the last of the flames. And something looked odd about the little shed across the field that housed their prisoner. "What happened, Sergeant-General?" The grizzled veteran looked over the assemble pilots, staring with dismay at their ruined quarters. "Well, looks like you boys will be sleeping in the hangar. While you were waiting for a fight over Reims, the Tuned-Port Circus came back and bombed your chateau. And while we were getting strafed, one of them landed and cut loose your prisoner." As one the pilots turned to look at the shed, and sure enough the door was blown off it's hinges. "Curses! That wily Padre has done it again!" With greater determination than ever, but with grudging respect for their clever enemy, the pilots slowly begin to sift through the wreckage of their bombed-out chateau. Back at Blountvilleshire Aerodrome, his happy mates greeted Larry as he climbed out of the Padre's Twinstar. "Hey, were you surprised to see us?" "What did you think when the chateau blew up?" Larry rolled out of the plane and grinned at his rescuers, only to grimace in pain and grab at a thorn in his bare foot. "First things first, guys. Where are my boots?" what else..to be continued (maybe a while, I'm traveling for a week. See ya) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:34 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List Activity --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" personally, I hate tv so sittin' here reading 60-70+ a day don't bother me, good for lots of laughs also,a puter is a great tool and a place to relax if used right, just my .02!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List Activity > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > > So what's the problem - do you prefer a dead list? For the most part, most > post on are on the topic of building or flying Kolb's. If it is because > you feel your getting to many messages you can change your status to digest > and go out and read them on demand. If you made a favorable contribution > to Matt, you can get a CD with all messages from the groups beginning - > that way you have all the information but not have to down load all the > messages. > jerb > do not archive > > At 07:26 AM 12/3/03 -0600, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > > > >At 07:54 PM 12/2/03 -0600, you wrote: > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > > >Whether we can fly, have flown a Kolb or any > > >other airplane or not. Every body is samo samo. > > > > > >We should all come here for the same purpose; to build and > > >fly Kolb airplanes. > > > > > >I do believe we should be self policing or the List will > > >literally turn to feces. > > > > > > >John & List, > > > >After I read the Kolb emails, I delete them and they go into a trash > >mailbox and remain there until I delete them in mass. I was about to > >empty the trash mail, and then I decided to look at it again. > > > >In the last two months there were 1,386 emails to the Kolb list from 143 > >contributors. Or just a little less than 10 emails per contributor on the > >average. > > > >During the two month period, ten contributors sent more than 30 emails to > >the list, and they responded 669 times and made up 48% of the list activity. > > > >During the two month period, the activity order for these ten contributors > >was: > > > >John Hauk - 157 > >Larry Bourne - 85 > >Richard Pike - 83 > >Captain Ron - 75 > >Paul Petty - 68 > >Aaron Hollingsworth - 57 > >Richard Neilsen - 42 > >Don Gherardini - 35 > >Denny Rowe - 34 > >Kirk Smith - 33 > > > >I agree, some self policing may be desirable. > > > >Jack B. Hart FF004 > >Jackson, MO > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > >Jack & Louise Hart > >jbhart@ldd.net > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: enclosure From: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com 12/04/2003 07:02:47 AM, Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 07:02:47 AM, Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/04/2003 07:02:35 AM, Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/04/2003 07:02:37 AM, Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 07:02:37 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com Bryan, I have exactly what you are looking for. I fly an original Firestar with a full enclosure. I copied a friends plans and made some of my own changes. Up here in Minnesota an enclosure feels real good in the winter time. As a matter of fact I leave it on all year around. There is a problem though... you will have to wait until after Christmas for some pictures. Santa is bring me a new digital camera. I have been a very good boy! P.S. to John Hauck, when I'm flying my Firestar around the corn fields and ten thousand lakes of central Minnesota with my new digital camera, I will be pretending I'm your wing man to Alaska. Hey, maybe you'll be passing through my air space on your way up???? P.S. to Don Gherardini, we meet at Oshkosh. Glad to hear you are making progress on the "Fly Honda" project. I am watching Northern Tool for a freight damaged motor also. Dwight Kottke The Flying Farmer Do Not Archive "bryan green" Sent by: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com 12/03/2003 03:27 PM Please respond to kolb-list To: cc: (bcc: Dwight Kottke/CNTR/HUT/HTI) Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" Hey guys, if anyone on the list flying an original Firestar with a full enclosure has any close up pics would you send me a couple off list. I have the installation instructions for the old kit and would like to build my own. Do not archive Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:41 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" Glad to hear you've been good Dwight. The wait will be no problem. I moved up north( South Carolina) from lower Alabama some 15 years ago and haven't gotten used to the chilly weather yet. :-) Do not archive Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? From: Jim Gerken 12/04/2003 07:34:38 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken Richard, you said it. The exchange of builder tips and information for building, maintaining and safely flying is why I am here. Not for reading fiction, reading seemingly endless posts of people's vacation plans (sorry, they are not Kolb related to those of us not attending), and obviously not for listening to people bitch at each other, I have a job for that stuff. Today's Digest of 46 msgs was pitifully low on real Kolb content. Is there a way that the bitching could be taken off-line, in emails direct between people, not appended to the List? What good does it do the rest of us? Why not send bitching replies directly to the person who offended you? Same with the vacation planning. A couple posts to Kolb List offering a group deal, great. Then the participaters each make a seperate list in their address books or buddy lists to send mail to (each other)when making firm plans. If this doesn't work, soon it may be time for a new KOLB-TECHNICAL-ONLY List request to Matt? I am sorry that in order to post my opinion I have propogated the problem again. do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > >Time: 06:51:57 PM PST US >From: "Richard Harris" >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: estrogen >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" >Yea Topher, You, as usually, are right on the mark. I liked it when the >list was for building infomation and help for those of us that need it.. > thank you....... >Richard Harris >MK3 N912RH >Lewisville, Arkansas >DO NOT ARCHIVE >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Christopher Armstrong" >Subject: Kolb-List: estrogen > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" > > > > Did somebody put estrogen in the water at the last kolb list meeting? I > have not heard so much whining since I was forced to go to a breast > feeding class with my wife. I am tired of getting ten e-mails a day of > girl talk. > > Do not archive > > Topher > > do not archive Jim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:19 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Aces --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" This gets better and better Duncan you should get a book deal. Do not archive "First things first, guys. Where are my boots?" Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:53 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Gerken" Subject: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken > > Not for reading > fiction, reading seemingly endless posts of people's vacation plans (sorry, > they are not Kolb related to those of us not attending), > Jim I enjoy the fiction and the vacation plans. What was that saying about all work and no play? > > > I am sorry that in order to post my opinion I have propogated the problem > again. Me too. :-) > > do not archive > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > >Time: 06:51:57 PM PST US > >From: "Richard Harris" > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: estrogen > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" > > > >Yea Topher, You, as usually, are right on the mark. I liked it when the > >list was for building infomation and help for those of us that need it.. > > thank you....... > > > >Richard Harris > >MK3 N912RH > >Lewisville, Arkansas > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Christopher Armstrong" > >Subject: Kolb-List: estrogen > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" > > > > > > > > Did somebody put estrogen in the water at the last kolb list meeting? I > > have not heard so much whining since I was forced to go to a breast > > feeding class with my wife. I am tired of getting ten e-mails a day of > > girl talk. > > > > Do not archive > > > > Topher > > > > > do not archive > Jim > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:32 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Perhaps a person to filter the messages before being posted, for Kolb related content? I don't know how you could filter any other way. Certainly Matt doesn't have time to do that. > Today's Digest of 46 msgs was pitifully low on real Kolb content. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:22 AM PST US From: "Doug Lawton" Subject: Kolb-List: Airfoil Software Programs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Doug Lawton" Topher, That's interesting to me. Do you have any links to URL's or maybe names of programs that I could "google" out more information? I'm looking for extremely "slow" stall speed characteristics, top end doesn't matter. Thanks in advance, Doug Lawton NE Georgia & Whitwell TN Topher wrote: "...Nothing really wrong with the Kolb airfoil but better ones are available. Higher lift to drag with better stall characteristics. I could spend 30 minutes with a cfd program on my home computer starting from scratch right now and come up with a better airfoil then the Kolb airfoil. The tools available now just are so good (and free) that you can do things that you couldn't do before. " ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:24 AM PST US From: "Guy Morgan" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:45 AM PST US From: "Guy Morgan" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" Man, this is great. I love this list! I love it because of the diversity, the fiction, and the friction. Oh yeah, there's alot of damn good info here too. It seems like there are alot of pots calling alot of kettles black lately. All the bitchers are posting bitches about all the bitching, and so on....and so on..... Please, all you old-timers do not stop posting your fiction, plans for Kolb trips, anecdotes, stories, opinions, and most of all your wisdom and experience. The rest of ya...if ya don't like it, change the friggin channel. There, I've said my piece now I'll go back to lurking until I feel compelled to poke my head up again. Probably when the smoke clears ;-) Guy Morgan (Avionics tech, helicopter mechanic, and thick-skinned wanna-be Kolber) Galveston, TX DO NOT ARCHIVE Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:09 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > The exchange of builder tips and information for > building, maintaining and safely flying is why I am here. Not for reading > fiction, reading seemingly endless posts of people's vacation plans (sorry, > they are not Kolb related to those of us not attending), and obviously not > for listening to people bitch at each other, I have a job for that stuff. Jim Gertken > Perhaps a person to filter the messages before being posted, for Kolb > related content? Kirk Snuffy/Jim G/Gang: I took the liberty to change the subject line to reflect a more positive note. This post is more about people than Kolbs, but people are what make up the Kolb Builders List. Perhaps we could get the Federal Government involved in the Kolb Builders List. That would provide jobs for several people. Their primary duty would be to censor all incoming messages to the Kolb List to insure they pertain only to building and flying Kolb aircraft. Anyone caught sending any info other than Kolb related to building and flying info would have to face Federal Kolb List Enforcer. First offenders will receive heavy fines, then confinement at hard labor, and finally some type execution. Your choice. Another alternative would be to change the subject line above to "What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately?" Not be so quick to "judge" others. There is nothing in the "List Commandments" indicating I have to read every single post to the List. That is what the delete key is for. If a message holds no interest for me, I delete before I read, but most of the time I end up reading everything. I can't find any where in the "List Commandments" that each and everyone of us is to be entertained constantly. I don't know how many people are on the List presently, but no way all can be entertained, informed, and pacified the way they want to be all the time. Kolb List folks come in all stages of Kolb experience, from the guy who is interested in the possibility of building a Kolb and knows absolutely nothing about airplanes, flying, and especially building them, to folks that have built and are now flying. Some of you all are busy trying to get alternative power plants, other than Rotax. Great! I don't have much interest in that area because I am happy with what I have. But that does not make it wrong for you to discuss alternative power. Some are building wings and need help understanding plans and can benefit from tips and tricks we learn from having already gone through this part of the building process. Some folks are into covering and need some help with fabric and finishing tips. Then comes learning to fly our airplanes. I think a valid part of the List is what we do with them after we get them flying. I learn an awful lot about my airplane when I am enjoying it on trips. The Kolb List is "family" to me personally. I have a lot of personal friends out there, many that I have met face to face, spent time in the homes and with their families. I think the Annual Kolb Home Coming should be shared on the SF List. A lot of us have the opportunity to be there every year. Many of us have never been and may never get to attend because of work, financially, geographically, etc. I believe the Annual Kolb Flight to MV should be shared with the List. A lot of us fly out there from all over the country. We can certainly share information about our flights that will benefit others, it if is nothing more than to reinforce in their minds that a person can build a Kolb and fly it anywhere he wants to in the North American Continent. Not to forget our family overseas. I'd like to hear what they are doing, where they are flying, what they are building. The Kolb List is the members of the List. The individual member all over the world is what makes up the Kolb Family. The Kolb List takes on the personality of all those that participate. I think we are all very special people. WE are a little different from the average run of the mill ultralighter and home builder. Those of us that build have made a decision to take on a long, complicated, difficult project. We didn't get our airplanes ready to fly right out of the box. Most of us had never built anything so complex as an airplane. I know I hadn't. Yes, I was afraid I could not do all the tasks required to finish it up and make it fly. But I did. And when it was completed and flying, I could smile as I was flying and think to myself that this little airplane was built in my basement by a true amateur. I still think about my basement built airplane when I am flying it all over God's creation. It is a good feeling. I like that feeling. Maybe that is why I might get a little sensitive when someone challenges what my little airplane and my Kolb friends mean to me. I guess what all the "too" long dissertation boils down to is, if ya don't like what you see in a post, if you are bored, if folks ain't writing what you want to be reading, HIT THE DELETE KEY. And remember you and I are not the only members of the List. Now, if you have read this far, have some constructive comment to make about what I have written, then by all means let us all hear it. If not, then please keep it to yourself or go bc to one of your buddies that is willing to listen to you piss and moan about the individual members of the Kolb Builders List. My apologies to all who may have been hurt, annoyed, angered, irritated, and turned off, by anything I have said in the past, present, or future. I am a pretty direct person. I need to work on tact. I come from a professional military background, just like a lot of you all come direct from a civilian background. I do not mean to hurt anyone's feelings if I tell it like it is. There's a lot of indicators left out of email correspondence. We can not see the other person's face and eyes, or the situation he is in when he writes an email and punched the send key. I don't drink anymore and don't do drugs, other than a lot of caffeine, so you can't blame my posts on that. :-) Hopefully, we can all be a little more tolerant of each other. I hang out with another group of folks that have this motto as one among many, "Live and let live." If you don't know what this means, send me an email bc and I will try to explain it to you. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:49 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Surprise --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I'm amazed at how well those turned out. Nice prop and good work. John, you crotchety ol' rascal, we gotta get you to join the digital age - you'll love it. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Surprise > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > Hi Gang: > > At 2300 tonight heard some noise outside. Stuck my head out > the side door to see if it was raining. Sure enough was, > and leaning up againsT the door was my new 72" Warp Drive > Prop. Daryl and his gang did a beautiful job on it. The > new HP hub is polished, it has a black anodized crush plate > that the 5.125" spinner mounts on. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:13 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airfoil Software Programs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Topher... I like your idea also...although I dont know if an easier to build airfoil would be the result. Still maybe I just need to learn how. I must say I have always wondered about those concave bottom foils..like a kitfox. How do they get the fabric to stick to them? I have also wondered about the 9deg angle of incedence the kolb wing has. Would it fly faster if it was at a lower angle?...surely..but alas the lift would be lessened. Your suggestion certainly does make the ole gears grind tho! Any suggestions on a CFD program that an engineer whos got his degree before IBM invented the word "'PC"..? In other words , with a not to steep a learning curve! Don Gherardini Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:10 AM PST US From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch. I had a guy fly it for me as he does first flights for many in Colorado. He took it up to 9000 MSL, so high I lost sight of it. After .7 hr, he returned and landed - champagne all around. But he had two major concerns - aft CG and elevator control stiffness. I knew the CG was aft, but less than 35%MAC. I'll install some weight in the nose. CG problem due to heavy engine (912S) and a third fuel tank I put in behind the two 5 gal tanks. Control stiffness due to elevator control cables too tight (I was trying to prevent the wires slapping in the tail boom). Relatively easy to fix these problems. Many thanks to John Hauck for all your advice, also thanks to Big Lar. Without this list, I'd still be building so thanks to you all! Bill ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Censorship doesn't sit well with me, and I too enjoy the by-plays, except for the bitching. Generally, things like the Monument Valley planning are clearly labeled, and those not interested can easily hit the 'delete' key, letting the rest of us - a majority, I believe - enjoy all of the mail. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Perhaps a person to filter the messages before being posted, for Kolb > related content? I don't know how you could filter any other way. > Certainly Matt doesn't have time to do that. > > > Today's Digest of 46 msgs was pitifully low on real Kolb content. > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:57 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: monument valley 2004 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" i am getting to be like a kid " Is it May Yet??????" it sounds like next year will be even better than last may.... boyd do not archive. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:57 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: geting rid of spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" Woody and others.... the best way i found to get rid of spam is change your email address.. it takes 6 months or so for spamers to get it in bulk........ second is to create some rules for messages... from the inbox window hit MESSAGE CREATE RULE FROM MESSAGE in the top box i have checked WHERE THS SUBJECT LINE CONTAINS SPECIFIC WORDS. in the center box i have instructed it to NOT DOWNLOADFROM SERVER and the third box i put in keywords that i find objectionable. ........ then i make another rule in the same manner using the same keywords but the second box i put DELETE FROM SERVER this has eliminated 90% of the junk email from my inbox..... it is deleted without even having to look at it. boyd do not archive. if you want my list of keywords i will send off list. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:53 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" YEE HAWW! john, well said. now I gotta go make a dollar so's I can buy me some of that thar' go juice! ron in west tx. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > The exchange of builder tips and information for > > building, maintaining and safely flying is why I am here. > Not for reading > > fiction, reading seemingly endless posts of people's > vacation plans (sorry, > > they are not Kolb related to those of us not attending), > and obviously not > > for listening to people bitch at each other, I have a job > for that stuff. Jim Gertken > > > Perhaps a person to filter the messages before being posted, for Kolb > > related content? Kirk > > Snuffy/Jim G/Gang: > > I took the liberty to change the subject line to reflect a > more positive note. This post is more about people than > Kolbs, but people are what make up the Kolb Builders List. > > Perhaps we could get the Federal Government involved in the > Kolb Builders List. That would provide jobs for several > people. Their primary duty would be to censor all incoming > messages to the Kolb List to insure they pertain only to > building and flying Kolb aircraft. Anyone caught sending > any info other than Kolb related to building and flying info > would have to face Federal Kolb List Enforcer. First > offenders will receive heavy fines, then confinement at hard > labor, and finally some type execution. Your choice. > > Another alternative would be to change the subject line > above to "What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately?" > Not be so quick to "judge" others. > > There is nothing in the "List Commandments" indicating I > have to read every single post to the List. That is what > the delete key is for. If a message holds no interest for > me, I delete before I read, but most of the time I end up > reading everything. > > I can't find any where in the "List Commandments" that each > and everyone of us is to be entertained constantly. I don't > know how many people are on the List presently, but no way > all can be entertained, informed, and pacified the way they > want to be all the time. > > Kolb List folks come in all stages of Kolb experience, from > the guy who is interested in the possibility of building a > Kolb and knows absolutely nothing about airplanes, flying, > and especially building them, to folks that have built and > are now flying. > > Some of you all are busy trying to get alternative power > plants, other than Rotax. Great! I don't have much interest > in that area because I am happy with what I have. But that > does not make it wrong for you to discuss alternative power. > > Some are building wings and need help understanding plans > and can benefit from tips and tricks we learn from having > already gone through this part of the building process. > > Some folks are into covering and need some help with fabric > and finishing tips. > > Then comes learning to fly our airplanes. > > I think a valid part of the List is what we do with them > after we get them flying. I learn an awful lot about my > airplane when I am enjoying it on trips. > > The Kolb List is "family" to me personally. I have a lot of > personal friends out there, many that I have met face to > face, spent time in the homes and with their families. > > I think the Annual Kolb Home Coming should be shared on the > SF List. A lot of us have the opportunity to be there every > year. Many of us have never been and may never get to > attend because of work, financially, geographically, etc. > > I believe the Annual Kolb Flight to MV should be shared with > the List. A lot of us fly out there from all over the > country. We can certainly share information about our > flights that will benefit others, it if is nothing more than > to reinforce in their minds that a person can build a Kolb > and fly it anywhere he wants to in the North American > Continent. Not to forget our family overseas. I'd like to > hear what they are doing, where they are flying, what they > are building. > > The Kolb List is the members of the List. The individual > member all over the world is what makes up the Kolb Family. > The Kolb List takes on the personality of all those that > participate. I think we are all very special people. WE > are a little different from the average run of the mill > ultralighter and home builder. Those of us that build have > made a decision to take on a long, complicated, difficult > project. We didn't get our airplanes ready to fly right out > of the box. Most of us had never built anything so complex > as an airplane. I know I hadn't. Yes, I was afraid I could > not do all the tasks required to finish it up and make it > fly. But I did. And when it was completed and flying, I > could smile as I was flying and think to myself that this > little airplane was built in my basement by a true amateur. > I still think about my basement built airplane when I am > flying it all over God's creation. It is a good feeling. I > like that feeling. Maybe that is why I might get a little > sensitive when someone challenges what my little airplane > and my Kolb friends mean to me. > > I guess what all the "too" long dissertation boils down to > is, if ya don't like what you see in a post, if you are > bored, if folks ain't writing what you want to be reading, > HIT THE DELETE KEY. > > And remember you and I are not the only members of the List. > > Now, if you have read this far, have some constructive > comment to make about what I have written, then by all means > let us all hear it. If not, then please keep it to yourself > or go bc to one of your buddies that is willing to listen to > you piss and moan about the individual members of the Kolb > Builders List. > > My apologies to all who may have been hurt, annoyed, > angered, irritated, and turned off, by anything I have said > in the past, present, or future. I am a pretty direct > person. I need to work on tact. I come from a professional > military background, just like a lot of you all come direct > from a civilian background. I do not mean to hurt anyone's > feelings if I tell it like it is. There's a lot of > indicators left out of email correspondence. We can not see > the other person's face and eyes, or the situation he is in > when he writes an email and punched the send key. I don't > drink anymore and don't do drugs, other than a lot of > caffeine, so you can't blame my posts on that. :-) > > Hopefully, we can all be a little more tolerant of each > other. I hang out with another group of folks that have > this motto as one among many, "Live and let live." If you > don't know what this means, send me an email bc and I will > try to explain it to you. > > Take care, > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:15 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Perhaps a person to filter the messages before being posted, for Kolb > > related content? Kirk A statement designed to provoke thought . > Perhaps we could get the Federal Government involved in the > Kolb Builders List. That would provide jobs for several > people. Their primary duty would be to censor all incoming > messages to the Kolb List to insure they pertain only to > building and flying Kolb aircraft. Anyone caught sending > any info other than Kolb related to building and flying info > would have to face Federal Kolb List Enforcer. First > offenders will receive heavy fines, then confinement at hard > labor, and finally some type execution. Your choice. A thought provoked Now, if you have read this far, have some constructive > comment to make about what I have written, then by all means > let us all hear it. to work on tact. Tact: delicate skill in saying and doing exactly what is suitable in given circumstances, especially in dealing with awkward situations without offending. Tactics: The science of disposing and maneuvering naval and military forces in action, especially in regard to short range objectives. Above definitions taken from Websters Dictionary. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:05 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. > Bill Hi Bill/All: My hearty congratulations for first flight. What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would have downed a 747. Don't be too quick to start loading the nose down with lead. You may not need all that heavy ballast up there. I don't know your test pilot, what kind of flight conditions, maneuvers, airspeeds, etc., that he used to determine you had an after CG problem. I would be glad to discuss with him his test flight and see if I can glean more info from him. During slow flight, below 50 or 60 mph, the MK III will squat in the tail and fly nose high. Pull in some flap and the nose will rotate down and fly in a more level attitude. My old bird really squats when she gets slowed down near the stall, but let her stall and the nose will mildly drop. In a spin the nose feels like it is pointing straight down. Not being a trained test pilot I think the above would indicate my MK III does not have an aft CG problem. Perhaps someone with more training and experience, which would not take much in my case, could straighten me out in that area. Again good on ya. How did the 912S perform? john h ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:28 AM PST US From: "Edward Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" Hi Bill, Congratulations, Bill! Now go have a blast, and keep us informed. Post some pics when you can, I'd like to see her. Ed in JXN MkII/503 Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" > > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:39 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Hi Everyone: The above greeting should have been on my previous msg of the same subject. I had Jim G and Snuffy's name on it along with "all" I think. I was in no way attempting to point them out individually. The only reason I put their names on it was pure habit in the way I do my posts. My post was intended for everyone of the members on the Kolb List, to include, especially, me. I know from personal experience, especially in the Army, that it is easier to find fault than it is to help solve the problem. I hope I can do my share of helping us solve our problems. That applies to "Mickey Mouse" ones to those of building and flying Kolbs. Thanks, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:56 AM PST US From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Guy and Kolbers Amen and alleluia!!!!! We sure get an insight of the different personalities this way. As someone said recently its good to get together and meet face to face. Some of us just can't get away to do that yet in our "life situation", and this is as good as it gets, for us, for now. Ol Tom Jefferson said " you can't have self government, without self discipline" so my humble advice is, a bit of common sense is called for, but other wise, don't change a thing. And Duncan, my wife is even starting to follow along too, curiosity on why I am rolling on the office floor in hysteria. Several of you guys amaze me. I enjoy it all, keep the posts coming. Thanks Kelvin K NE and thick skin also No Kolb, Yet do not archive > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" > > > Man, this is great. I love this list! I love it because of the diversity, the fiction, and the friction. Oh yeah, there's alot of damn good info here too. It seems like there are alot of pots calling alot of kettles black lately. All the bitchers are posting bitches about all the bitching, and so on....and so on..... Please, all you old-timers do not stop posting your fiction, plans for Kolb trips, anecdotes, stories, opinions, and most of all your wisdom and experience. The rest of ya...if ya don't like it, change the friggin channel. There, I've said my piece now I'll go back to lurking until I feel compelled to poke my head up again. Probably when the smoke clears ;-) > > > Guy Morgan (Avionics tech, helicopter mechanic, and thick-skinned wanna-be Kolber) > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:15 AM PST US From: "Hans vanAlphen" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hauck/rotax912/Warp List --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Hans vanAlphen" To all on Hauck's/ Rotax912/ Warp List, For the last 3 years I have monitored and contributed to the Kolb list. At the beginning I found this list extremely useful and helpful, but I have seen a steady decline in the last year. It used to be a list where ideas good or bad were tossed around and I liked the excellent responses from Topher, Richard Pike, Dennis Souder, Richard Neilsen and others. In the last year I have seen a steady decline in the Kolb list, fewer and fewer question are asked and the useless banter is increasing at an alarming rate. And in my humble opinion this because of the caustic and belittling remarks being made by the "Moderator" I have flown my BMW successfully for 115 hours and I am proud of my less than $3,000 four stroke engine. No it is not a out of the box bolt on alternative, but just as good IMHO as the Rotax at $12.000 I believe there are many very good and cheaper alternatives to the Rotax, including VW, Geo, Verner and yes the Corvair. Tom Brownof Unity Wisc. and Virl Deal have over 1000 hours on their Corvair engines. www.FlyCorvair.com I think I was the pioneer for the BMW in the USA, although there are many flying in Europe, South Africa and Australia. I get a lot of emails about the BMW and happily share my info. and I have received several emails expressing concern posting questions about the BMW on the Kolb List, because if you don't have a 912 and a Warp prop the "Moderator" is going to have something to say.... most unfortunate. Newcomers and "lurkers" are intimidated. I believe the Kolb list should have an open mind and encourage innovation, not suppress it like the "Lawyers". I hereby unsubscribe from the Hauck/ Rotax/ Warp List. Please save your responses as I will also unsubscribe at the bottom. Sincerely hope the Kolb List can regain its former usefulness. Thank you. Hans van Alphen Kolb Mark III Xtra BMW, 115 hours Ivo inflight adjustable prop. DO NOT ARCHIVE - DO NOT ARCHIVE - DO NOT ARCHIVE - DO NOT ARCHIVE. snip... > >I do believe we should be self policing or the List will > >literally turn to feces. > John Hauck - 157 > Larry Bourne - 85 > Richard Pike - 83 > Captain Ron - 75 > Paul Petty - 68 > Aaron Hollingsworth - 57 > Richard Neilsen - 42 > Don Gherardini - 35 > Denny Rowe - 34 > Kirk Smith - 33 >snip > I agree, some self policing may be desirable. > I feel like a little kid in his bedroom at night, hearing > mom and dad fighting in the kitchen..... >Duncan >snip > John H, > You better straighten up or were going to have to send you to Nice School..... > jerb > snip > I have been mostly amused at this recent "unpleasantness". I never felt >that Richard had done or said anything that would require an apology. ..... >Larry, Oregon > snip > Did somebody put estrogen in the water at the last kolb list meeting? I > have not heard so much whining since I was forced to go to a breast > feeding class with my wife. I am tired of getting ten e-mails a day of > girl talk. > Topher > snip > Yea Topher, You, as usually, are right on the mark. I liked it when the > list was for building infomation and help for those of us that need it.. > thank you....... > Richard Harris > snip > Richard, > I read and re-read your Corvair msg and I can't quite figure out what you > are aplogizing for. > You may not be the list boss - but you are the big man on the list! > Dennis > snip ..................................................my new 72" Warp Drive Prop. > Daryl and his gang did a beautiful job on it............... > Take care, > john h snip DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:58 AM PST US From: "Terry Davis" Subject: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" Woody, By all means find an ISP that offers spam filtering. I get Postini for $1.00 a month and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip through every now and then. At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred of the %$#% things and go on my way. Go for it, you can do it. Don't give up on the list, we enjoy your stuff too much. Terry Davis FS, working on instrument panel. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer I have an idea regarding Kolb-list content: If all listers will send a coupla bucks to my PayPal acct, I'll be the list Censor, and promise to keep my Delete key taped down. Like the BBR classification used by the Patagonian Navy during WWII. (you don't know BBR? ha! Burn Before Reading) Bob N. jes' tryin' ta get along Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Enclosure From: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com 12/04/2003 12:23:38 PM, Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 12:23:38 PM, Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/04/2003 12:23:26 PM, Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/04/2003 12:23:29 PM, Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 12:23:29 PM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com I tried to reply to Bryan Greens post looking for an enclosure for a Firestar, but it did not go through. Anyhow, Bryan, I do fly a Firestar with a full enclosure. I copied a friends plan and made some of my own changes. It turned out nice and works great. Up here in Minnesota a full enclosure sure feels nice, as a matter of fact I leave it on all year. I can send you some pictures, but you will have to wait until after Christmas. Santa is bring me a brand new digital camera. I was a very good boy this year. P.S. #1. John Hauck, while I'm flying over the central Minnesota corn fields and ten thousand lakes with my new camera, I will be pretending I'm your wing man on our way to Alaska. Hey, maybe you'll be flying through my air space on your way up! P.S. #2 Don Gherardini, I meet you at Oshkosh this summer, its great to read about your "Fly Honda" report. I am watching my local Northern Tool for a freight damaged motor also. Dwight Kottke The Flying Farmer ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: geting rid of spam From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer After a lot of complaining to my Two-Soup Cans-and-a-Slack-String ISP, they installed SpamBloc (free) which takes out 92%(so far) of spam. SpamBloc has a learning mode wherein it uses the missed spam to tighten its net . Users return the misses to SpamBloc where it analyzes them. Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:20 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Thank you John, well said. I count it a privilege to be on this list and be numbered among those who know you. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 10:08 AM 12/4/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > >Snuffy/Jim G/Gang: > >I took the liberty to change the subject line to reflect a >more positive note. This post is more about people than >Kolbs, but people are what make up the Kolb Builders List. >Take care, > >john h > >DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:29 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon I guess what all the "too" long dissertation boils down to is, if ya don't like what you see in a post, if you are bored, if folks ain't writing what you want to be reading, HIT THE DELETE KEY. ================================ Well that's true John but the caveat is that you gotta read it first. Hey I hope you didn't take my roasting too serious. :-) ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:02 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: fix for spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Here is what I did. Since I only use my primary e-mail for the list and good friends i have made, I had my ISP block all e-mails except the addresses that I send them. Works super. pp do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:53 AM PST US From: "jam'n" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" hi interesting on spam issue. it is such a pain!! > I get Postini for $1.00 a month is this a type of spam filtering? postini? >and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip through every now and then. >At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred of the %$#% things and go on my way please dont take this wrong... but how does 1 or 2 that slip by every now and then... yield 3 or 4 hundred each week? i had tried a spam service but i may have missed some i wanted and i still got spam... but i am interested in a solution other than changing emails etc. i have one friend at Y-who... and they get absolutely -0- others there say they do... thanks for info and replys jam'n > Woody, > > By all means find an ISP that offers spam filtering. I get Postini for $1.00 a month and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip through every now and then. At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred of the %$#% things and go on my way. Go for it, you can do it. Don't give up on the list, we enjoy your stuff too much. > Terry Davis FS, working on instrument panel. DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:31 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 10:08 AM 12/4/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > >My apologies to all who may have been hurt, annoyed, >angered, irritated, and turned off, by anything I have said >in the past, present, or future. I am a pretty direct >person. I need to work on tact. I come from a professional >military background, just like a lot of you all come direct >from a civilian background. I do not mean to hurt anyone's >feelings if I tell it like it is. There's a lot of >indicators left out of email correspondence. We can not see >the other person's face and eyes, or the situation he is in >when he writes an email and punched the send key. I don't >drink anymore and don't do drugs, other than a lot of >caffeine, so you can't blame my posts on that. :-) > >Hopefully, we can all be a little more tolerant of each >other. I hang out with another group of folks that have >this motto as one among many, "Live and let live." If you >don't know what this means, send me an email bc and I will >try to explain it to you. > Followed by the next message: At 11:00 AM 12/4/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. > Bill >Hi Bill/All: > >My hearty congratulations for first flight. > >What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when >the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would >have downed a 747. John, What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your apology, and you stick the knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and self analysis sincere? Is this "Live and let live"? Enough said, and I am off this topic. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:15 AM PST US From: Jim Clayton Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton >>posted by: Richard Pike: Thank you John (Hauck), >>well said. I count it a privilege to be on this >>list and be numbered among those who >>know you. John/Richard/All, I second that that motion! Thanks guys for taking the time to put your thoughts down in an intelligent way. I always appreciate the discussion of engine options, from the Paul's Harley experimentation, to Richard's always interesting posts on the VW side of things. For me, and my situation, the 912S makes the most sense, but I won't be buying the engine until the last minute, and so always appreciate the hard work and shared info from those of you pushing the engine envelope to the benefit of the rest of us. I have never gotten the feeling from this list that alternative engines are frowned upon. I am here for not only for the Kolb technical content, but also the friendship and trip planning. Meeting a bunch of you folks at Oshkosh, and benefiting from all the info and advice since then has been a real pleasure. So much so that my dad and I have discussed coming to Monument valley even though my plane won't be ready by then....as long as you guys don't mind a couple of landlubbers begging for rides ;-) -Jim Jim Clayton California Mark-3X, Building do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:09 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Way to go Bill, Congratulations! Do not archive Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" > > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch. I had a guy fly it for me as he does first flights for many in Colorado. He took it up to 9000 MSL, so high I lost sight of it. After .7 hr, he returned and landed - champagne all around. But he had two major concerns - aft CG and elevator control stiffness. I knew the CG was aft, but less than 35%MAC. I'll install some weight in the nose. CG problem due to heavy engine (912S) and a third fuel tank I put in behind the two 5 gal tanks. Control stiffness due to elevator control cables too tight (I was trying to prevent the wires slapping in the tail boom). Relatively easy to fix these problems. Many thanks to John Hauck for all your advice, also thanks to Big Lar. Without this list, I'd still be building so thanks to you all! Bill > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:22 PM PST US From: "Christopher Armstrong" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Airfoil Software Programs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/index.htm this website has a nice program called javafoil. It is easy and gives fairly decent numbers. He has tons of neat information on his web site and good links to other programs. According to Possem the airfoil and rib design in the attached photos is: They've built about 6 or 7 now with that wing and 503 dual carbs. Takes up two people easy. Cuts through the air better than mine and is supposed to fly slower and faster than my ribs (Kolb ribs). I know they can climb as well and fly at least as fast as me - even with an extra three feet of wing. They have the data at the farm and the name of the airfoil. I'll check this weekend if you really want to know. It's what "Highsmith" down in Fla. is flying with now, only his has a 582 on his. So they have already done most of what I would do. On the Honda Project hen you get to desiging a flight worthy prop drive I would toss in my two cents on what you should do. If you pulled the fan and the shrouds off the engine could you save a significant amount of weight? If you could get 50 hp out of it for 500 hours stock and keep the weight under 100 pounds with the prop drive you could just throw the engine away and still be a good deal. Topher -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Gherardini Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airfoil Software Programs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Topher... I like your idea also...although I dont know if an easier to build airfoil would be the result. Still maybe I just need to learn how. I must say I have always wondered about those concave bottom foils..like a kitfox. How do they get the fabric to stick to them? I have also wondered about the 9deg angle of incedence the kolb wing has. Would it fly faster if it was at a lower angle?...surely..but alas the lift would be lessened. Your suggestion certainly does make the ole gears grind tho! Any suggestions on a CFD program that an engineer whos got his degree before IBM invented the word "'PC"..? In other words , with a not to steep a learning curve! Don Gherardini Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 = == == == == ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:24 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: as the smoke clears --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Thanks for all the tips on the wing construction. I can't believe that more folks won't join in the Kolb chat room. It's fun and allows us to get to know each other. I usually go there everyday around 5:45pm cst and hang out and chat with James Tripp about what we are working on that day. Stay for 45 minutes or sometime less. Then with fresh ideas and excitement I head off to the shop to work on Ms.Dixie. I have met some nice folks in some of the other rooms. The RV rooms the general room ect. One thing I discovered is that folks will go there from the link at the bottom of each post without opening their browsers. When you do this you will not see post in the room. Before I got caught up in the exciting world of aviation, I rode motorcycles and when it was to cold or wet to ride I would chat in Yahoo. I met folks from all over the world that shared the same interest as I and we would all meet up at the big rallies (Daytona) like you guys do in say MV. Perhaps if Matt could add a place on the server for personal profiles, for those who care to, post a photo of themselves and their plane with a little info.I for one would like to be able to put faces to the many names on the list. Would also like to put planes with the name. This way when I got to the flyins I could hunt down the ones I want to meet. I like the story telling to.... pp ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:48 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Enclosure --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" I got your message Dwight and sent a reply Thanks. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kolb-List: Enclosure > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com > > I tried to reply to Bryan Greens post looking for an enclosure for a > Firestar, but it did not go through. Anyhow, Bryan, I do fly a Firestar > with a full enclosure. > > Dwight Kottke > The Flying Farmer > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:42 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Jam';n/and everybody I am not zactly sure just how it works,,but I can help you understand Terrys post.. 1st..the Postini method somehow pre-screens the mail..and its not at your ISP's location..I think they must redirect it to their location because my buddy at my ISP told me that they just had to do something because their mail server was overloaded all the time untill they subscribed to this service. 2nd... What terry meant about the several hundred deletions he makes...well you get a email notice everytime someone sends you a virus infected email...and from time to time you get a message that looks like this... suspicious email messages since your last visit and directed them to your One-Eleven Internet Message Center. You can inspect your suspicious email at:.......(here a link to postini is displayed)..................... ( One-eleven is my ISP.) Now this place saves all the messages for 30 days..then dumps them... at anytime you want , you can go there and look at the messages...and delete them...have them delivered...and/or approve addresses for future mail so the ones you want to recieve wont be held up...(but they will be screened for virus's) for the first week or so...I went there everyday to see if it was holding messages I wanted ..but dang few times have I needed to release them for deliveries...after a couple of weeks...I quit even looking . now..about once a month...I go there and see thousands of messages ...all junk...and delete them all. You dont have to do this if you dont want to, as like I mentioned..after 30 days it dumps the old junk to make room for the new junk. Heck the anti virus service is worth more than the buck a month...thats 12 bucks a year...cost me 15 to stay with Norton...and there is no way I could update the definitions twice a day!.. yes..I still get a few junkers...maybe 2 or 3 a day out of 40 messages or so I recieve.(unless the Kolb-list is un-usually hyperactive) It has to do with the method some spammers are using where they pay people to re-direct their junk from their personal computers at home..(or at school) college kids are very susceptable to this, and every year at the begining of school you see an increase in spam . anyway, a few junkers sure dont bother me much...particularly when i go to Postini and see how many they kept out of my hair! I'm tellin ya men...these services are the best thing for the internet since the mouse! DO NOT ARCHIVE Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:41 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon I agree, I use Yahoo and as you noted I get 0 spam on my Yahoo emails. It in away explains why yahoo stock prices are rising. I would suggest to all members that refuse spam to create a new account at Yahoo. do not archive ============================== --- jam'n wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" > > > hi > > interesting on spam issue. it is such a pain!! > > > I get Postini for $1.00 a month > > is this a type of spam filtering? postini? > > >and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip > through every now and then. > >At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred > of the %$#% things and > go on my way > > please dont take this wrong... but how does 1 or 2 > that slip by every now > and then... yield 3 or 4 hundred each week? > > i had tried a spam service but i may have missed > some i wanted and i still > got spam... > but i am interested in a solution other than > changing emails etc. i have one > friend at Y-who... and they get absolutely -0- > > others there say they do... > > thanks for info and replys > > jam'n > > > > Woody, > > > > By all means find an ISP that offers spam > filtering. I get Postini for > $1.00 a month and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages > that slip through every now > and then. At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or > 4 hundred of the %$#% > things and go on my way. Go for it, you can do it. > Don't give up on the > list, we enjoy your stuff too much. > > Terry Davis FS, working on instrument panel. > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:27 PM PST US From: "J.D. Stewart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.D. Stewart" Go to www.postini.com. It's what we here at Internet Nebraska offer our customers for $1/month, and it works for probably 95% of the spam. J.D. Stewart Internet Nebraska-Norfolk www.inebraska.com UltraFun AirSports http://www.ultrafunairsports.com FlyChallenger E-mail list and Website Administrator http://challenger.inebraska.com TitanAircraft e-mail list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircraft/ > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" > > hi > > interesting on spam issue. it is such a pain!! > > > I get Postini for $1.00 a month > > is this a type of spam filtering? postini? > > >and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip through every now and then. > >At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred of the %$#% > things and > go on my way > > please dont take this wrong... but how does 1 or 2 that slip by every now > and then... yield 3 or 4 hundred each week? > > i had tried a spam service but i may have missed some i wanted and i still > got spam... > but i am interested in a solution other than changing emails etc. > i have one > friend at Y-who... and they get absolutely -0- > > others there say they do... > > thanks for info and replys > > jam'n > > > > Woody, > > > > By all means find an ISP that offers spam filtering. I get Postini for > $1.00 a month and get maybe 1 or 2 spam messages that slip > through every now > and then. At the end of the week I mass delete 3 or 4 hundred of the %$#% > things and go on my way. Go for it, you can do it. Don't give up on the > list, we enjoy your stuff too much. > > Terry Davis FS, working on instrument panel. DO NOT ARCHIVE > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:25 PM PST US From: "Guy Morgan" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" Jeez john. Not only are your posts being counted, now they're being timed. I do reckon this horse is 'bout dead. Whatchall think? Scuse me, I got a Huey to fix. Later, Guy Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:49 PM PST US From: SGreenpg@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV 2004 - I'm in --> Kolb-List message posted by: SGreenpg@aol.com In a message dated 12/2/03 6:54:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, BICUM@aol.com writes: Flying with these guys is a blast. I know Gary H has his name in the hat. How bout Steve Green? Hey John and all, I would love to make the trip but I will probably be moving about that time. I will probably have used most of my vacation time to do the wiring and pluming on the house. Ya'll have fun. Steven G. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:50 PM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Kolb-List: Dammspam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" Thanks for the advise on getting rid of spam. I will try to get my isp to install a spam blocker. Currently I use "mail washer". It shows me most of the spam. It also calls good mail spam on occasion so I still have to check the message titles. Sometimes words like Woody can cause the filter to activate. Real name is Dick Wood so that combination is not spam filter friendly either. Sometimes you just have to quit and start fresh. As for the current war of words going on --- lighten up. Last homecoming John Hauk pointed his finger at me and called me a foureinger and tried to kick me out of the Kolb Hanger after I just drove 8 hrs to be there. Luckily cooler heads prevailed when they noticed the Canadian beer under my arm and I was allowed to stay. No hard feelings there. Pastor Pike and I have totally different religeous beliefs but we are sociable and have no problem helping each other out . Another member told me he thought I was the list asshole at the home coming. No hard feelings there either. He is entitled to his opinion but hopefully it has changed once he got used to my occasional sarcastic sense of humour. A lot of good comes from the list,. as in life it is made up of diverse personalities. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. Embrace the ones you like and ignore the rest. Life gets a lot eaier that way. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:39 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: building --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" John/All Yes John you did give me that tip in ICQ and I remembered it. I was fishing for more for a sequence of building the wings not so much how. The plans are pretty good in that respect. I was looking more for first things first and so on. With everyone's help I think I got it. Thanks everyone. Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp do not archive ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:59 PM PST US From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" Well done. Always great to hear of a successful first flight. Here's to many more. Duncan McBride Mk 3 319DM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" > > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:03 PM PST US From: "Scott Olendorf" Subject: Kolb-List: Building instructions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Scott Olendorf" Paul's email got me thinking. Doesn't someone on the list have a web site with a builder's log and pictures? Maybe just the log would be enough to get the kind of step by step he is looking for. Scott Olendorf Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop. Schenectady, NY http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar ====================================================== Originaly posted by: "Paul Petty" > I was wondering. The plans do not appear to give a step by step way of building > the wings. Like, first do this, second do this and so on. I would like to hear > some opinions on what order the construction process should be carried out. > Make it simple. > Something like. > 1.lay out and measure leading edge. > 2.insert and drill and rivet wing root > 3 slide on ribs. > 4.make trailing edge piece > 5.install root false nose > 6.make the tip bow > and so on. Just a simple deal to keep me from making huge mistakes hopefully ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:41 PM PST US From: "Scott Olendorf" Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: Sponson attach for Firestar wing --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Scott Olendorf" This may have gotten lost in all the quarreling... Does anyone have plans for the sponson attach points to go into a Firestar II wing? Scott Olendorf Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop. Schenectady, NY http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:14 PM PST US From: "Scott Olendorf" Subject: Kolb-List: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Scott Olendorf" Bryan, I didn't know they had plans for a full enclosure. I come up with my own enclosure design with a little help. It works well but I would do better on the next attempt. The best thing I did for winter flying was to take a piece of canvas (tarp) and cable tie it to the frame behind the seat. This makes the cockpit mostly airtight. I cut slits to allow the cables through. At least no breezes are hitting me. A little air has to get out to let the heater air get in. Anyway see my website for some pictures to give you some ideas. http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar/firepic.htm near the bottom of the page. There are little side windows, not in the pictures, that go on when it gets cold. Just the hinge pin has to be removed to take off the side windows. Almost SKI season. ( for the plane ) Scott Olendorf Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop. Schenectady, NY > >Time: 01:27:59 PM PST US >From: "bryan green" >Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > >Hey guys, if anyone on the list flying an original Firestar with a full enclosure >has any close up pics would you send me a couple off list. I have the installation >instructions for the old kit and would like to build my own. Do not archive >Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:22 PM PST US From: "Scott Olendorf" Subject: Kolb-List: Top ten listers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Scott Olendorf" OK another one from me. I'm trying to bump some of you guys off the top ten list. Personally I have no problem with 99% of the posts. I don't like the one line responses that have 200 lines of someone else's email stuck on the bottom of them. But I digress... I think everyone should just relax and skip the stuff you don't like. I don't care if John make the occasional quip that some folks misinterpret because like it or not he knows Kolbs and is usually the first to respond and help out a fellow Kolber. He also if the first to question someone elses comments that US lurkers are too lazy to do. Any maybe he IS a hero to lots of folks. DO NOT ARCHIVE instead write it down and tape it to your monitor. At least that's what I do with all my posts. P.S. Doesn't anyone have a new or used firestar I/II tail bracket laying around? Don't make me send another post today. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:18 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: getting rid of spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb I'm using a program called MailWasher. You can do a search for the site and down load it. It's a honor type system for use and donation. The neat thing about it unlike many spam filtering utilities, this one allows you to bounce messages. Some system if the address bounces back, it will automatically delete your address form its mail list. I found that it does work. The other thing I found is have a unique email address for list - as you indicated if spam gets to bad you can change it by one letter or digit and no more spam. jerb do not archive At 09:14 AM 12/4/03 -0700, boyd young wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" > >Woody and others.... > >the best way i found to get rid of spam is change your email address.. it >takes 6 months or so for spamers to get it in bulk........ > >second is to create some rules for messages... from the inbox window hit >MESSAGE CREATE RULE FROM MESSAGE in the top box i have >checked WHERE THS SUBJECT LINE CONTAINS SPECIFIC WORDS. in the center box >i have instructed it to NOT DOWNLOADFROM SERVER and the third box i put >in keywords that i find objectionable. ........ then i make another rule >in the same manner using the same keywords but the second box i put DELETE >FROM SERVER > >this has eliminated 90% of the junk email from my inbox..... it is deleted >without even having to look at it. > >boyd > >do not archive. > >if you want my list of keywords i will send off list. > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:55 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Wonderful news, Bill...............see you coulda built almost 2 of these things while I've been fooling around with 1. But OH, such Fun ! ! ! :-( In all serious-ness, I almost certainly would've quit long ago without the List-ers to prod me from time to time. Thanks all. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" > > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch. I had a guy fly it for me as he does first flights for many in Colorado. He took it up to 9000 MSL, so high I lost sight of it. After .7 hr, he returned and landed - champagne all around. But he had two major concerns - aft CG and elevator control stiffness. I knew the CG was aft, but less than 35%MAC. I'll install some weight in the nose. CG problem due to heavy engine (912S) and a third fuel tank I put in behind the two 5 gal tanks. Control stiffness due to elevator control cables too tight (I was trying to prevent the wires slapping in the tail boom). Relatively easy to fix these problems. Many thanks to John Hauck for all your advice, also thanks to Big Lar. Without this list, I'd still be building so thanks to you all! Bill > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:27 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Yah, but, but, but................he's makin' pore ol' Larry the treacherous bad guy. C'mon Duncan, save him from that terrible fate. Surely Larry's in the enemy camp in disguise, digging up info to help his buddies............. ?? And - maybe Duncan's efforts will inspire ol' Aluminum Butcher Beauford to leap back into the fray ??? Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" > > Guy and Kolbers > Amen and alleluia!!!!! We sure get an insight of the different > personalities this way. As someone said recently its good to get together > and meet face to face. Some of us just can't get away to do that yet in our > "life situation", and this is as good as it gets, for us, for now. > Ol Tom Jefferson said " you can't have self government, ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:34 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? > > > Today's Digest of 46 msgs was pitifully low on real Kolb content. > > Do not archive > Well here we go again! Not sure what is wrong with me, normally I am able to let these thing just slide on by. Medication must be off or something. I just seem to have a terrible urge to comment on this particular type of thread. I am trying to quit- honest! Has it ever occurred to you guys that perhaps there just isn't anything pressing happening some of the time that this list is operating? Poor ole Paul P can only ask so many questions. This type of stuff can't be forced you know. It flows with the seasons. Some times there is only BS available. Personally my bird is setting in its trailer waiting for some better weather, which will not likely occur until early Feb. At that time I have some serious plans to do some modification to the enclosure, brakes and so on. Right now I am content to throw another log on the fire and do a little light reading. Doesn't make for scintillating questions or answers, does it? Please Kirk, do not think that I am hacking on you or anyone else. Yours just happened to be the first post that I opened this evening. I am just trying to say that if there is real content and question out there they will come through, and the list members will come through with the answers as best as they are able. The rest of the time kindly allow the rest of us to amuse ourselves as best as we can. It is generally called "hanger flying". Peace! Larry,Oregon ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:18 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Olendorf" Subject: Kolb-List: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Scott Olendorf" > > Bryan, > > I didn't know they had plans for a full enclosure. I come up with my own enclosure design > with a little help. It works well but I would do better on the next attempt. > Thanks Scott these pics will help a bunch. What kind of tubing did you use for the frame? That is sure a pretty Firestar you have. > > > > Almost SKI season. ( for the plane ) > We only use ski for water around here. :-) > Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS > > > > > >Time: 01:27:59 PM PST US > >From: "bryan green" > >Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure > > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > > > >Hey guys, if anyone on the list flying an original Firestar with a full enclosure > >has any close up pics would you send me a couple off list. I have the installation > >instructions for the old kit and would like to build my own. Do not archive > >Bryan Green (Elgin SC) > > ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:25 PM PST US From: "James and Cathy Tripp" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" Bill, Congratulations! It's got to be a great feeling seeing your work finally complete and in the air. I grin just thinking about it. I don't know how you could possibly work on a project for 4 years and then willingly hand the keys over to someone else for the maiden flight. That's got to be hard. Congtrats again and enjoy your creation. James Tripp Building FSII DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Elder" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Elder" > > On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch. I had a guy fly it for me as he does first flights for many in Colorado. He took it up to 9000 MSL, so high I lost sight of it. After .7 hr, he returned and landed - champagne all around. But he had two major concerns - aft CG and elevator control stiffness. I knew the CG was aft, but less than 35%MAC. I'll install some weight in the nose. CG problem due to heavy engine (912S) and a third fuel tank I put in behind the two 5 gal tanks. Control stiffness due to elevator control cables too tight (I was trying to prevent the wires slapping in the tail boom). Relatively easy to fix these problems. Many thanks to John Hauck for all your advice, also thanks to Big Lar. Without this list, I'd still be building so thanks to you all! Bill > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:04 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 12/4/03 11:09:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: > Hopefully, we can all be a little more tolerant of each > other. I hang out with another group of folks that have > this motto as one among many, "Live and let live." If you > don't know what this means, send me an email bc and I will > try to explain it to you. > > Take care, > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > You are good John.....well said. George Randolph ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:11 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop Clearance --> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com List, Kinda hard finnishing up my firefly with deer season going on. Thought I would throw out a question and maybe offer some respite from all the bickering talk. My 66" prop comes 3/4 " from the tail boom. I have 3 washers between the Alum. mtg. plate and the lord mnts. I have 2 washers between the engine and the mtg. plate. Anyone see a problem with putting a total of 5 washers which would raise the engine enough to give 1" of clearance. Any one else have to do this on their Firefly. Ed ( in Houston) ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:56 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 12/4/03 2:26:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@ldd.net writes: > >My hearty congratulations for first flight. > > > >What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when > >the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would > >have downed a 747. > > John, > > What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your apology, and you stick the > > knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and self analysis sincere? Is > > this "Live and let live"? > > Enough said, and I am off this topic. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Jackson, MO > > > Jack &Louise Hart > jbhart@ldd.net > Jack, pleeeeez...you are being WAY too thin skinned....don't you recognize his sense of humor??? And you are a very good contributor to this list too!!! wasssup buddy??!! George Randolph