Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - hollow shaft gearbox (Jim Gerken)
2. 08:43 AM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox/INflight adjustable props (Don Gherardini)
3. 10:29 AM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (Thom Riddle)
4. 10:42 AM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (HShack@aol.com)
5. 01:16 PM - Monument Valley (Larry Bourne)
6. 01:41 PM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox/In-flight adjustable props (Joe Allman)
7. 01:41 PM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (Denny Rowe)
8. 01:50 PM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (Denny Rowe)
9. 02:05 PM - Re: Covering (Jim Ballenger)
10. 02:43 PM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (GeoR38@aol.com)
11. 03:00 PM - Re: Spam Alert: Neat Prop! (jerb)
12. 04:16 PM - 2nd Solo (Paul Petty)
13. 04:17 PM - Re: hollow shaft gearbox (HShack@aol.com)
14. 05:06 PM - Re: 2nd Solo (Dale Sellers)
15. 05:09 PM - Re: Inflight adjustable props (Larry Cottrell)
16. 05:12 PM - Patching fabric (Dale Sellers)
17. 05:13 PM - Re: 2nd Solo (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
18. 05:32 PM - Re: 2nd Solo (Ben Ransom)
19. 05:51 PM - Re: Patching fabric (ul15rhb@juno.com)
20. 05:53 PM - Re: Patching fabric (SGreenpg@aol.com)
21. 05:59 PM - Re: Patching fabric (Don Gherardini)
22. 06:30 PM - Re: 2nd Solo (Don Gherardini)
23. 07:28 PM - Re: Inflight adjustable props (Richard Pike)
24. 11:17 PM - Covering (Mike Pierzina)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | hollow shaft gearbox |
12/08/2003 08:03:26 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>Earl...I have always wondered about that system...but I have never seen
one
>in the flesh...
>I have never seen a hollow shaft gearbox for any of the engines we
typically
>use either. some belt type re-drives have hollow shafts that might
>accomidate the pushrod... but does anybody know of a hollow shaft gearbox
>that might?
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
The Rotax "C" box has a hollow prop shaft, clear through the gearbox to the
area between the engine and the gearbox, and they even provide a small
milled-flat area there with two tapped holes for mounting something.
Jim Gerken
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox/INflight adjustable props |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
thanks for the Info on the hollow shafts men....there seems to always be
something I have missed seeing in the light aircraft/engine world.
Just goes to show that more than one pair of eyes looking at something is
always better!
This also brings me to wonder why?...
Why do the 2 fellas who have IVO in flight adjustable electrics on their
birds that fly from my airpark have them now set to stay in one spot, and
the wires disconnected?
Why did Larry come to that same conclusion on his 582 powered Mk3?
We all generally know that we can adjust our props to either have a better
climb ...or set it for cruise, and the difference is usually more than "just
noticeable"....or on fixed pitch props change them out for the same
preferance in performance. Yet..this is not the first time that I have heard
of an In-flight adjustable on a 2 stroke not living up to expectations.
It seems to me that an inflight adjustable would be just the ticket for the
2 stroke engine with such a wide rpm envelope. But the only ones I have run
across out in the feild seems that they dont.......Hmmmmmm, I think I am
missing something again! Anybody have this figured out?
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
Over three decades ago, I flew Mooneys with constant speed props and they were
fantastic, for that airframe/engine combination. I suspect that the reasons Kolbers
are not having good experience with the In-Flight adjustable props are two.
1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore relatively
slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger difference when
the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines generally have
very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve will have enough
torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch available for
cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase pitch in a torque-peaky
engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus loose thrust rather
than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that will increase
the speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve would make
an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of the reasons
why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a much flatter torque
curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an adjustable pitch prop
is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to produce good thrust at
lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in theory) would enable you to
fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel economy at similar cruise speeds.
Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
Thom in Buffalo
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 12/8/2003 1:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore relatively
slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger difference when
the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines generally have
very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve will have enough
torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch available for
cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase pitch in a
torque-peaky engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus loose thrust
rather than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that will increase
the
speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
I believe a big reason to not use in-flight adjustable pitch on a two stroke
is because of the tendency of the EGT's to increase as the prop is unloaded.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
If you ain't interested in the Monument Valley trip, hit delete now, and forever
hold your peace.
For those who are, I'd been planning a trip to Page, AZ for this weekend, to scout
the area and also take a guided trip into the slot canyons near there. Look
up Antelope Canyon, and Corkscrew Canyon on a search engine. Weather forecast
is becoming a little 'iffy', so I called 3 guide services, and they were unanimous
in saying that mid-May would be the best time to come - for better weather,
beat the crowds, and - for photographer Lar - much better lighting. Mid
May.............hmmmm...............didn't I have something going in mid May
?? Sounds good, eh ?? Happily Anticipating Lar................who'll
prob'ly make a scouting trip up there in the near future anyway.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | hollow shaft gearbox/In-flight adjustable props |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
Don and all,
I run an IVO in-flight with a 582 on a slingshot.
When it works I think it's great. Gives you the best of both. Excellent
climb and if you don't mind the fuel burn you can really increase the
cruise.
However,
I couldn't get mine to stay together. Wires breaking off the brushes among
other things. Finally the frustration became more than the benefit and I
removed it.
I would like to add, I don't know how many hours are on this prop. It was
used when I started the evaluation.
Joe
SS 582 IVO -VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Gherardini
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: hollow shaft gearbox/INflight adjustable props
.....2 stroke engine with such a wide rpm envelope. But the only ones I have
run
across out in the feild seems that they dont.......Hmmmmmm, I think I am
missing something again! Anybody have this figured out?
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
> > I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve
would make an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of
the reasons why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a
much flatter torque curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an
adjustable pitch prop is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to
produce good thrust at lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in
theory) would enable you to fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel
economy at similar cruise speeds.
>
> Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
Thom,
I agree with you that it is a combo of the high drag airframes and the peaky
power curve of the two cylinder 2 cycles that conspire to limit the
effectivness of inflight adjustables on many ULs.
My wife and I each had the opportunity to fly a leg of the Dayton to Kitty
Hawk flight with Dave Gardner in his 912S powered Rans S-12 which was
equiped with a large diameter inflight adjustable IVO. Due to that engines
wide flat power curve, the adjustable prop worked quite well. I also have a
friend with a 3 cylinder 690L like mine that was able to see some advantage
with the inflight adjustable IVO high pitch on his Slingshot due to the
triples flat power curve. However, he previously saw even better results
with a deeper reduction ratio and larger diameter ground adjustable prop,
but due to resonance problems stemming from the 3 to 1 ratio gearbox he was
forced to switch to 2.65 to 1 gears and has never since been able to match
the deeper reductions overall performance, even with the inflight adjustable
prop. 2SIs deepest ratio is 3.06 to 1 and that ratio just isn't compatable
with three cylinder engines.
Seems our best route is to use the 3.47 ratio reductions wherever possible
to maximize performance, and if you have a higher torque engine such as a 2
stroke triple from Hirth, 2SI, MZ, or Simonini, or a 912 Rotax, you may also
want to try an inflight adjustable, otherwise it's probably just a waste of
funds.
Thats my thoughts, worth every penny it cost ya. :-)
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, PA
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
> I believe a big reason to not use in-flight adjustable pitch on a two
stroke
> is because of the tendency of the EGT's to increase as the prop is
unloaded.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
> SC
>
Howard,
The inflight adjustable prop can also be used to keep the engine loaded to
hold down EGTs, this of course adds a little to the pilots workload and may
cause the problems you refer to if a guy looses track of his prop setting.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
PS: I'd someday like to adapt a 3.47 to 1 C -box to my 690L, this would
probaby be the single best thing I could do to maximize my already great
performance.
I think the Mk-3 is so dirty that an inflight adjustable would not be worth
the investment.
do not archive
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Rick/Don
You have certainly given me food for thought. Here in southeast Virginia
the weather can be unpredictable this time of the year, but there are some
good days that I could secure the heat to the house and get some covering
done. If the opportunity presents itself, I will take advantage of it. Come
to think of it, the last airplane I painted was in November 1990 and it
turned out pretty good due to the excellent weather conditions.
Thanks
Jim Ballenger
Flying a FS KXP 447
Building a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Covering
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Jim
>
> Winter in your part of the country is a good time of the year for
covering.
> You want cool weather when you are spraying. You will find Poly Spray and
> the finish coats will flow much better for a more glossy finish when its
> cool. Is there any way you can build a fire in the fire place, plug in
> electric heaters or something else to keep the house warm while you are
> working? You will loose allot of build time if you have to wait for
spring.
>
> Us northerners feel like its time for the beach when it hits sixty, Yupers
> swim in the fifties. So working in a unheated garage in the fifties is
> nothing.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> Michigan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: New Experimenter issue
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
> >
> >
> > Denny
> > I have the wings and tail feathers rigged as well as the controls to the
> > stick. I have all the lexan cut out and at one time was attached but is
> now
> > off the cage, same for the doors. The sling seats are clecoed in place
as
> > well as the floor pans and center console for the instrument pod. I am
> > doing odds and ends waiting for the weather to cooperate so I can start
> > covering. I have the plane in my garage. My oil furnace is also
located
> > in the garage so I will have to wait until the heating season is over so
I
> > can use the Poly-Tak and the rest of the poly fiber system in the
garage.
> > Jim Ballenger
> > Flying a FS KXP 447
> > Building a MK III X
> > Virginia Beach, VA
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 12/8/03 1:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
>
> Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
>
> Over three decades ago, I flew Mooneys with constant speed props and they
> were fantastic, for that airframe/engine combination. I suspect that the
> reasons Kolbers are not having good experience with the In-Flight adjustable
props
> are two. 1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore
> relatively slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger
> difference when the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines
> generally have very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve
will
> have enough torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch
> available for cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase
> pitch in a torque-peaky engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus
> loose thrust rather than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that
> will increase the speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
>
> I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve would
> make an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of the
> reasons why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a much
> flatter torque curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an adjustable
> pitch prop is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to produce good
> thrust at lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in theory) would enable
> you to fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel economy at similar
> cruise speeds.
>
> Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
> thom in Buffalo, and all
The classic formula for Horsepower is Torque X Speed (or angular velocity in
this case) X a Constant, so it makes sense that what you say coupled with some
of what John Hauck said about fixed pitch being the only real option on two
strokes would show a reduction of horsepower output on a twostroke as the
torque peaked out at only one speed. If the Torque peak is surpassed in rpm, then
the torque went down and so did the hp output. If the rpm is less than the peak
torque point on the curve, then the hp is down again providing less hp ouput
to couple to the airstream as well. Only at that one rpm would the horsepower
be optimized and available to couple with the surrounding airstream.
Horsepower is work done per unit of time ... or as my teacher once said
represents the size of the bucket of energy (work). No work is done if there is
no
resistance to it, so that is represented by drag in this case.
Tropher had a real good dissertation on this in a previous post.
GeorgeRandolph
Firestar driver from The Villages Fla
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Having been around a T-Gull running a IVO in-flight adjustable I think the
difference may be the drag contributed by the airframe. Most airframes
have a speed when approached that returns less speed for an increase of
power. The Kolb being quite draggie may not realize much benefit in the
way of speed from an adjustable prop but may see some benefit in climb when
prop is flattened allowing the engine to turn up and develop HP. The
T-Gull and Titan have slicker airframes thus a wider speed range and a
higher speed barrier point. They may see more benefit from adjustable prop
on this type of airframe as compared to the Kolb.
jerb
At 07:05 PM 12/7/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
>
> > Hey Guys,
> > Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience with this in-flight
> > adjustable prop.? Looks interesting but way too rich for me!! -- Earl
> > http://www.ultralightprops.com/adjustprops.htm
>
>
>I had a IVO in-flight adjustable on a 582 Mark III and it was a non event
>for me. I had hoped that it would reduce gas consumption, give a bit better
>speed or at least improve performance. As far as I could tell it did none of
>these things. Yes you could improve on the gas consumption, but when you did
>it reduced the speed to the point that it took the same amount of gas to get
>there, just took longer. I came to believe that you were much better off
>setting the prop to max rpm.s. It was a big disappointment to me. I bought
>the plane from the original owner, and the adjustable prop wasn't working at
>the time. When questioned he didn't think that it was any big deal to have.
>I also came to the same conclusion.
>Larry, Oregon
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect, slight 8
knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way home I was
thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field landings are performed
in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150 even thinking about it
in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air until it drops on it's own
and so forth. Also reminding myself why this procedure it important in the first
place. Force landings in soft dirt or even mud.
What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on Ms.Dixie...
Later Guys
the student
pp
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 12/8/2003 4:50:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rowedl@highstream.net writes:
Howard,
The inflight adjustable prop can also be used to keep the engine loaded to
hold down EGTs, this of course adds a little to the pilots workload and may
cause the problems you refer to if a guy looses track of his prop setting.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
PS: I'd someday like to adapt a 3.47 to 1 C -box to my 690L, this would
probaby be the single best thing I could do to maximize my already great
performance.
I think the Mk-3 is so dirty that an inflight adjustable would not be worth
the investment.
I run a "C" box 3.47:1 on my 503, pushes my Firestar II with a 68" 3 blade
Warp taper tip.
My Firestar is faster & gets better mileage than the other Firestars at our
field while at the same time running heavier than most.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Paul,
I'm sorry I missed you on my trip to Ms last week. On the way over my car
threw a rod in Selma. I left it there and rented a car for the rest of the
trip. On the way back, my wife met me in Selma with my truck and I rented a
dolly and towed it home. It is an 88 Chrysler Labaron. is showing 167K
miles but it ran good and didn't use any oil. I guess it was it's time to
go. Luckily, I already had a new short block for it. I'll change it out
when I get time.
I'm busy getting my Ultra Star back in the air. I wiped the gear out and am
making repairs.
About your soft field landings etc., I have only flown one Kolb and that's
my Ultra Star. I've been a private pilot for 35 years and have built and
flown two experimentals before the Kolb. I don't know about the other Kolbs
but mine is so light until if you cut the power it will literally stop. It
doesn't have enough mass weight for momentum so if you can't cut the power
when you see you've got the field made and flare at idle and wait for it to
settle onto the runway. You have to carry about 3500 RPM's all the way to
the ground. If you don't, it will stop when you cut the power and stall.
That's what happened to my gear.
The other Kolbs might handle differently.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect,
slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way
home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field
landings are performed in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150
even thinking about it in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air
until it drops on it's own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this
procedure it important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or
even mud.
> What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
>
> Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
Ms.Dixie...
>
> Later Guys
>
> the student
>
> pp
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <GeoR38@aol.com>
. If the rpm is less than the peak
> torque point on the curve, then the hp is down again providing less hp
ouput
> to couple to the airstream as well. Only at that one rpm would the
horsepower
> be optimized and available to couple with the surrounding airstream.
By George I believe that you have it! I think that is why they do not work
well on the two strokes. It puzzled me a lot when I brought the Mark III
home. Altitude here is 4100 feet. The plane came from 300 feet. I expected
to have trouble with the EGT's at the higher altitude. The prop had
defaulted to 6100 rpm's and was not working. The egt's were 1050. I tried
changing the needle settings, egt's went up. I had to send the motor to the
adjustable in to be repaired, (75.00) since it wasn't working under load. At
6100, the best cruise that I could get was 62 MPH (GPS) I cranked it as far
up as I could get it- 6500 rpms, cruise went up to 67 mph (GPS) Egt's went
up to 1200. The egt's didn't go up on the full throttle, but it did in the
midrange area.I could have changed the jets to reflect the proper egt's at
the max rpm's. but I still think it would have been screwy and not worth the
effort. Where I am speed counts. Its sometimes a long way to the next
refueling area.
Larry, Oregon
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Merry Christmas to all Kolbers,
I need some held on repairing a hole in my aileron. The prop picked up a rock
and it went through it like a bullet. There is a hole on one side about 1/2"
and about 2" on the other. Do you chemically remove the paint down to the fabric
or sand it off? I know I should get down to the fabric so the fabric cement
can bond the patch to the fabric.
I would appreciate any help.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Paul
I was sitting here thinking about my Private pilot training after reading
your comments..... The Kolbra has taller gear that would allow a higher
angle of attack on landing than most stock gear Kolbs. With most of us the
only way to do a short field landing is to use our flaps. Not that we are
handicapped very much because of our super flaps but with tall gear and
flaps wow. Which brings me to the question, were you able to get flaps on
the Kolbra? I don't mean flaperons but real flaps like on the MKIIIc?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect,
slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way
home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field
landings are performed in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150
even thinking about it in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air
until it drops on it's own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this
procedure it important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or
even mud.
> What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
>
> Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
Ms.Dixie...
>
> Later Guys
>
> the student
>
> pp
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Hi Paul,
Congratulations!
WRT soft field landings, I can't speak for the flapped Kolbs, but some
generalities are:
1. You don't want to plop it on -- let it kiss on gently! No need to
be real slow as in a short field landing, which helps you ease it on
nicely.
2. Don't use the brakes, and you might use some back pressure on the
stick once the wing is done flying -- all this to keep from nosing
over.
Generally too, you would have flaps to keep weight carried by the wings
instead of wheels, as long as possible.
If uncertain about the field, fly it along somewhat slow just above the
runway to make sure what you're dealing with. This of course, not real
do-able if you are making an emergency landing. But, I've had fields I
wanted to land on, kept thinking they were maybe okay, but give up
after 3 or 4 passes. Cow pies turn out to be rocks, etc. :)
I had a great day flying yesterday myself. Beautiful day in N. Calif.
-Ben Ransom
do not archive
--- Paul Petty <ppetty@c-gate.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near
> perfect, slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings
> ect.... On the way home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and
> wondering how soft field landings are performed in them. Being a
> short time student pilot in a 150 even thinking about it in the
> landing phase. Holding that nose in the air until it drops on it's
> own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this procedure it
> important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or even
> mud.
> What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
>
> Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
> Ms.Dixie...
>
> Later Guys
>
> the student
>
> pp
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Dale,
This is real easy. All you have to do is cut out a patch that will
overlap the size of the hole by an inch rounding off the corners. Prepare
the surface by cleaning around the hole with some lacquer thinner and
pushing the excess material inward. Take a brush and spread a thin layer
of polybrush around the hole. Wait a few minutes and let dry. Take your
patch and center it over the hole. Now take the brush and apply another
coat of polybrush over the patch, starting around the edge of it and
stroking the brush from the center outward. Let it dry and then paint.
If the patch is large, a modeler's heating iron (monocoat) can shrink the
center if there are some wrinkles. Be careful not to overheat as it will
shrink and distort the patch. Do it after the patch has dried overnight.
Start out at low temp and go higher if heating is needed. Most small
patches do not need to be shrunk.
If you do it right, your patch is hardly noticeable.
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:09:54 -0800 "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers"
> <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
> Merry Christmas to all Kolbers,
>
> I need some held on repairing a hole in my aileron. The prop picked
> up a rock and it went through it like a bullet. There is a hole on
> one side about 1/2" and about 2" on the other. Do you chemically
> remove the paint down to the fabric or sand it off? I know I should
> get down to the fabric so the fabric cement can bond the patch to
> the fabric.
>
> I would appreciate any help.
>
> Dale Sellers
> Georgia Ultra Star.
>
>
>
> _->
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: SGreenpg@aol.com
In a message dated 12/8/03 8:12:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dsel1@bellsouth.net writes:
Do you chemically remove the paint down to the fabric or sand it off? I know
I should get down to the fabric so the fabric cement can bond the patch to
the fabric.
I would appreciate any help.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
Dale,
If it is Polytone paint just use MEK. Also a call to Jim and Dondi may be in
order. 877-877-3334 They will gladly answer all your questions.
Steven G.
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Dale, the first thing you need to do is determine what kind of paint was
used on it.
If it was PolyTone...just get some MEK thinner and a rag...dab the rag in
the thinner and rub the paint off the surrounding area of the whole..then
glue on a patch with polytack..or polybrush. The got the iron and shrink
the patch...then paint it.
If its car paint....recover the control surface
If its latex...recover the control surface
I guess you could use a piece of tape to cover the hole...
If it is Aerothane...
Aww this is gonna get to long....what kind of paint do you have>?
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Paul, depending on what kind of approach you want to make really depends on
how you will land that Kolb. But how you handle the throttle is the key.
If you set up a long final ..likely as you are doing now in that 150, you
will probably carry near cruise power till you are pretty close to the
threshold, then slowly bring back power to maybe 50 % and decend the rest of
the way. If you bring it back to idle...you better have the runway made
because you will have to nose down fast to keep airspeed.
If you saw my video...the approach I made was non typical..as when the wind
is as it was at The Airpark..a correct pattern will take us over the house
of an unfriendly neighbor on base leg and the turn to final...so we usally
cut it short. I stay high till I am very close...then dive down on the
runway and pull the power down to 25% or so...just to above the "rough
spot"in rpms...(you wont have that spot on that 912).. and keep the nose
pretty steep to keep speed. You dont "flare" like you do in that 150...but
you just hold it level when you get close and fly it down to the
ground...maybe adding throttle if you are a tad high.
I am lucky to have my bird where it is as we have 2800 ft x100 of very
smooth turf so we can practice about every kind of approach you can think
of, and I would say the type of airfeild you are going to fly from will
dictate your methods. But as has already been mentioned, there is little
weight/inertia in a Kolb, and when you bring the throttle down...the
airspeed follows very quickly.
On your first few flights..take it somewhere where you have lots of
runway...and pick a spot well past the numbers to sight on, fly it at a slow
cruise to that spot and then hold her level and low while slowly reducing
throttle.if you start having to bring the nose up to stay level,dont, but
put it down while you still have control authority and lift....you will get
the hang of it that way and you will save your gear legs.
I dont think I reduced power below 50% on my FireFly till after I was wheels
down for a dozen flights or so...and depending where i go I'm still as
likely as not to touch down at 35 to 40 mph with 30 or 40 % throttle.
Your approach airspeeds will vary according to the wind conditions, and you
will learn this before your instructor lets you test for your ticket. The
airspeeds might be different, but the logic is the same and the higher the
wind/gusts, the higher your approach speeds will be. It is really only the
way you use the throttle that will be different to keep those same airspeeds
in that Kolb vs that 150.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Streamlining and cleaning up the fuselage/wing interface pays off.
Flight testing yesterday, (winter rejet) full throttle level flight was 95 mph.
At 5300rpm, cruise was 70. Outside air temp was 42 degrees.
Stock Rotax 582, 2.58:1 B box, 68" 2 blade Ivoprop.
MKIII's do not have to be slow. It takes some work to find it,
but the speed is in there. This is a great airplane.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 05:10 PM 12/8/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
<snip>
>At
>6100, the best cruise that I could get was 62 MPH (GPS) I cranked it as far
>up as I could get it- 6500 rpms, cruise went up to 67 mph (GPS) Egt's went
>up to 1200. The egt's didn't go up on the full throttle, but it did in the
>midrange area.I could have changed the jets to reflect the proper egt's at
>the max rpm's. but I still think it would have been screwy and not worth the
>effort. Where I am speed counts. Its sometimes a long way to the next
>refueling area.
>Larry, Oregon
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com> (by way
of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
Do Not Archive,
I don't get it...A guy asks about covering ...and Everybody's reply is
about PAINTING ...?
The covering and Brush coat can take quite a bit of time.... Oh well,
just another typical day...
Or maybe you guys painted the fabric BEFORE you glued it on...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN (Heated Garage)
FSII - Taping Wing for Trim Colors.
P.S. My laser works good at making straight lines over those scalloped
surfaces
---
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com!
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|