---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/14/03: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Homebuilt "Major" Changes (kuffel) 2. 03:59 AM - Re: Propellor (Denny Rowe) 3. 07:41 AM - Dribbling Bing Carburetors - Update (Jack & Louise Hart) 4. 08:31 AM - Re; Homebuilt "Major" Changes (Native American Artist) 5. 09:05 AM - Re: Solo X-Country (vincenicely) 6. 11:25 AM - winter projects (Russell Phillips) 7. 12:12 PM - Re: winter projects (Larry Bourne) 8. 01:26 PM - Re: Homebuilt "Major" Changes (Bob Noyer) 9. 01:41 PM - Re: winter projects (Bob Noyer) 10. 01:42 PM - Re: Propellor - Laser (Bob Noyer) 11. 02:18 PM - heat treating gear legs (Joel Reed) 12. 03:15 PM - Re: heat treating gear legs (Bob Bean) 13. 03:18 PM - Re: winter projects (jerb) 14. 03:26 PM - Re: Propellor (Dennis Souder) 15. 03:33 PM - Re: winter projects (Jim Ballenger) 16. 04:09 PM - Re: winter projects (fuel tanks) (Fackler, Ken) 17. 05:14 PM - Re: Homebuilt "Major" Changes (kuffel) 18. 06:18 PM - Re: Homebuilt "Major" Changes (Bob Noyer) 19. 06:43 PM - Ace Hardware aircraft supply (Clay Stuart) 20. 07:08 PM - Re: Ball Joints (Vic) 21. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Ball Joints (Bob Noyer) 22. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: Ball Joints (Don Gherardini) 23. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Ball Joints (HShack@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:27 AM PST US From: kuffel Subject: Kolb-List: Homebuilt "Major" Changes --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <> <> This is really two different issues. In the US there is no requirement for the builder to follow anything in the plans as long as he uses aircraft quality materials and workmanship. In other words, you can change anything you want up to the final inspection. After the initial sign-off, the FAA must be notified of any "major changes". Don't have the AC in front of me at the moment but the last time I discussed this topic with the FAA (about a month ago) the reply was "anything which changes the aircraft reliability, weight & balance or aerodynamics *may* be a major change." Don't you just love such a clear and unambiguous answer. So the bad news is you probably should notify the FAA about these changes especially if you don't want a fight with your insurance company about paying a claim. The good news is all the FAA will most likely ask is you refly a test phase for a limited number of hours (5 or fewer was mentioned) in a limited area. Or if you make them mad they might go back to step one with a full inspection and full test phase (usually 40 hours on a Kolb). But even this is better than the FAA deciding your aircraft was no longer legal in the event of an incident. <> No. As an aside, there is no such thing as a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) for homebuilt experimental aircraft. The notification process described above serves the same function. Do not archive. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar CFI, EAA Flight Advisor ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:57 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > > Would not the IVO blades have to be reversed in the hub to get the proper > side of the blades facing forward and the hub to mount to the gear box in > the correct orientation - can that be done due to the blade pitch torsion > rods mating to the hub? > jerb Jerb, By stating in my post below that the blades looked the same, I didn't mean to imply that they were interchangable, I meant that I did not recall any differance in the blade design other than they being opposite direction units. Of course I don't recall ever comparing them side by side as Don G has so they may well have differances I hadn't noticed, either that or maybe IVO altered their blade design over the years. You can't use right and left hand blades interchangably, props are always directional. Sorry for the confusion, Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA > >Earl, > >I have used two and three blade IVOs on my 503 Powered Loehle "Tractor > >configuration" and they performed really well. > >A friend had a belt drive on his Loehle so he had a right hand prop and the > >blades looked the same as mine. > >Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:17 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: Dribbling Bing Carburetors - Update --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart Kolbers, I have re-worked the Bing carburetor dribble bib to make it lighter and to reduce the chance of anything being sucked into the engine. The latest update can be seen on the bottom of: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly90.html This is a long html with many photos, so it will take a while to load. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:00 AM PST US From: Native American Artist Subject: Kolb-List: Re; Homebuilt "Major" Changes --> Kolb-List message posted by: Native American Artist Thanks for the info to send me in the right direction. I don't have any experience in the homebuilt realm but I do know Feds and Insurance companies are the bane if you ever have an incident and you made mods without informing them. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:32 AM PST US From: "vincenicely" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Solo X-Country DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "vincenicely" Arron, You said: >215lbs. I cruised my first leg at 63-65mph indicated at about 5100rpm. I thought the lower rpm would save some fuel even though it would take longer >to get there. I was wrong. First and second leg were both right over 50 miles (minimal wind). The second leg I cruised at 5800rpm showing 85mph indicated. I >burned less gas and arrived about 15 minutes faster. Perhaps the explanation is that the Rotax 2-stroke engines have an efficiency expressed as specific fuel consumption (pounds of fuel per horse power hour) that changes significantly with RPM. The reasoning to fuel per mile at different speeds is a little complicated because the drag of the airplane and the efficiency of the propeller are dependent upon speed too. Anyway, proceeding along the engine efficiency line of thought, according to the table in my year 2000 CPS catalog, the 618 burns about .83 lb/(hp*hr) at 5000 RPM and about 0.75 lb/(hp*hr) at 5800 RPM. The most efficient speed of the 618 appears from the graph to be 6600 RPM at about .69 lb/(hp*hr). Vince FireStar II ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:09 AM PST US From: "Russell Phillips" Subject: Kolb-List: winter projects --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Russell Phillips" Hi guys, The weather has put a stop to my fabric covering so now I'm working on a couple other thingsin my basement that I would like to hear some ideas from anyone who has already dealt with them. I've made a cardboard templateof the instrument paneland drawn the instruments. I like the idea of putting instrumentsin the existing panel(Mark III Classic) and any switches that need to be reached in a seperate box in front of the seat betweenmy legs. I'm having a problem fitting all the gauges I feel are neccesary in the space. Any ideas? (note - not a fan of EIS) My other winter project is solving the problem of needing a larger fuel tank. I want a tankwith 16-18 gal. usable. Has anyone used onefrom a G. A. plane or are they builtto heavy (weight) for this? How about custom made from Aircraft Spruce, anyone had any experience with that?The last resort would be to design, buy the material, find someone to weld (I've read about some bad experiences there). Any input would be appreciated. Russ in chilly , snow covered southwestern NY Still plugging away on Mark III Classic Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:07 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I know of at least 2 ways to go. 1st, extend the panel down as I did. Look on my website under Building Vamoose/Instrument Panel. I can't reach it very well when strapped in, so extended the radios out and angled them for easy use in busy airspace. I live near the Los Angeles mess, and will be flying in that environment at least some of the time. Another, probably better, way to go is Dennis Kirby's method of moving the whole panel back toward you and extending it down. This has the advantage of bringing everthing - switches and all within reach, and allowed him to hinge the panel to give easy access to the wiring if necessary. On mine, the radios extend back too far for the hinge to work. I took some good pictures of Dennis' panel, so will send them to you off List. Dennis is a real nice fella, and I doubt if he'll mind me showing off his plane. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Phillips" Subject: Kolb-List: winter projects > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Russell Phillips" > > Hi guys, > > > The weather has put a stop to my fabric covering so now I'm working on a couple other thingsin my basement that I would like to hear some ideas from anyone who has already dealt with them. > > > I've made a cardboard templateof the instrument paneland drawn the instruments. I like the idea of putting instrumentsin the existing panel(Mark III Classic) and any switches that need to be reached in a seperate box in front of the seat betweenmy legs. I'm having a problem fitting all the gauges I feel are neccesary in the space. Any ideas? (note - not a fan of EIS) > > > My other winter project is solving the problem of needing a larger fuel tank. I want a tankwith 16-18 gal. usable. Has anyone used onefrom a G. A. plane or are they builtto heavy (weight) for this? How about custom made from Aircraft Spruce, anyone had any experience with that?The last resort would be to design, buy the material, find someone to weld (I've read about some bad experiences there). > > > Any input would be appreciated. > > > Russ in chilly , snow covered southwestern NY > > > Still plugging away on Mark III Classic > > > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homebuilt "Major" Changes From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer Maybe need a Form 337? On cert. a/c whenever a major repair or change is made, you hafta fill out a 337. Also try for a one-time STC if any change affecting design, operation(?), etc Or quote an existing STC.....I think! Bob N. too-old mech, also too cold ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer Russ, Coupla yrs ago there were thrds abt fuel tanks on FLY-UL. Ask Larry at ldavis@indy.rr.com He had a catalog I think Bob N. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor - Laser From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer Jerb, Saw the ad more'n maybe a coupla yrs ago. Not Dennis, altho he may have a clue. Bob N. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:34 PM PST US From: "Joel Reed" Subject: Kolb-List: heat treating gear legs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joel Reed" Hello Kolbers, I have wanted to make my own landing gear and I got some 4130 tubing and have cut them to length and I wanted to sent them out to get heat treated and I wanted to find out how much it would cost and it seems like its a enpensive process to do the heat treating. I had called Braddock, in New Jersey and the plant manager had gave me a quote of $125 and I thought that was a good deal and send my tubing over to them but the employee who is doing my tubing said it would exceed $500 to do my tubing. I thought that was too much so I thought I would ask the list and find out if that is the normal or is there another place that you know of that would do it for less. Thanks Joel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:39 PM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: heat treating gear legs --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Sure sounds like bait-n-switch to me. All you need to heat treat is an electric oven (kitchen model won't do) with an accurate temp readout. First the item is heated to red hot with out reaching the droop temp and then rapid quenched. Then stuck in the electric furnace to reach the applicable temp that actually reduces the temper to what you want. When I do a cluster I quench with a wet rag to put a little firmness back in, yup a little guesswork to judge the mass I'm working with. -Too much, you have a brittle structure and too little you have a spot that will sag a bit with the first hard landing. Check with John H's Alabama treater to see what they want. -BB do not archive Joel Reed wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joel Reed" > >Hello Kolbers, > > I have wanted to make my own landing gear and I got some 4130 tubing and have cut them to length and I wanted to sent them out to get heat treated and I wanted to find out how much it would cost and it seems like its a enpensive process to do the heat treating. I had called Braddock, in New Jersey and the plant manager had gave me a quote of $125 and I thought that was a good deal and send my tubing over to them but the employee who is doing my tubing said it would exceed $500 to do my tubing. I thought that was too much so I thought I would ask the list and find out if that is the normal or is there another place that you know of that would do it for less. > >Thanks > Joel > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:43 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Curious, what is it about the EIS you don't like. I love it, have one in each of our planes. jerb do not archive snip.. I'm having a problem fitting all the gauges I feel are necessary in the space. Any ideas? (note - not a fan of EIS) snip.... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:05 PM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" Folks, Sorry to disappoint ... but I don't have a Laser. I was just using lessons we learned from the Laser in talking about props. Even though the Laser is faster and sexier looking than the SlingShot, I would prefer a SlingShot to the Laser because of the better visibility. Kolb originally presented the Laser some years ago, but never followed through with production for several reasons. One reason was expense, it was a complicated structure, esp with the folding wings and the folding wings had some problems which really needed a redesign. So plug-in wings were designed to eliminate some of the complexity of the folding joint. But we really weren't happy about giving up the folding. Then we did the FS-II redesign and that kept us so busy for quite a while and we didn't have time to spend on the Laser. Some years later, after Homer left, we tried again and did a complete re-design on the wing and designed an all new folding arrangement and we were very satisfied with the result, but we still had questions if we could charge enough money to make it a viable aircraft to market. There were some other similar aircraft by Rans and Zenair which we would need to compete with. Then along came TNK and they did their own redesign exercise and decided eventually to drop it too. Someone approached TNK about buying all the Laser planes and parts and evidently a deal was struck and they were sold. Then, I think that person decided he didn't want to bother with the Laser and put it up for sale on Barnstormes. The Laser and parts were sold again and that is all I know. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" > > Jerry B > Ahhh that Kolb..ok Now I know..I didnt remember the name was > Laser..Shoulda known Dennis would wind up with one! > I remember when a few months back, there was an Adv on the Prototype..and > another or 2 all from the same fella. That was my first exposure to this > airplane.Thanks pard! > > BTW..I have Google search site as my default page in explorer..thats how > much I use it! When I got to thinking about what a Laser was, I typed in > Laser Aircraft. ..got nuttin....I just didnt remember it was a Kolb! > > So Dennis...Do you have that 1st one?...or did you build yourself > another?...what kind of power? > It is Snowing like heck here and I bet alot of fellas would like to hear > all about the Kolb Laser's performance...handling..construction.... > Sit down here Dennis and tell me about it will ya! > > Thanks > > Don Gherardini > FireFly 098 > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:22 PM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" Russ I purchased two 10 gallon from Titan Aircraft and with a little metal work they fit great in my MK III Xtra. Jim Ballenger Flying a FS KXP 447 Building a MK III X Virginia Beach, VA DO NOT ARCHIVE > My other winter project is solving the problem of needing a larger fuel tank. I want a tankwith 16-18 gal. usable. > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:52 PM PST US From: "Fackler, Ken" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects (fuel tanks) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" >>needing a larger fuel tank Kirk (Snuffy) Smith turned me on to the source at the URL below as a place to get fuel tanks of various sizes that are very light in weight and will work for the Kolb. http://www.bugsandbuggies.com/ -Ken Fackler Kolb Mark II / A722KWF Rochester MI ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:19 PM PST US From: kuffel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homebuilt "Major" Changes --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel Bob, <> Nope. In the case of a homebuilt it is all simpler than 337s or STCs. Just write a letter to your local FAA FSDO telling them about your aircraft and what changes you made. They will do one of three things: 1) Write a letter saying "that's fine." 2) Write a letter saying "test it for 4 (or whatever) hours in the following designated test area." 3) "We need to inspect it or get a DAR to inspect it as if it were being inspected for the first time and then a full (probably 40 hours) flight test time will be required." Once again, there is no such thing as a 337 or STC for a homebuilt. But if your change copies something done by an STC or approved 337 on a certificated aircraft it would certainly help to mention the fact in your letter to the FAA. Do not archive. Tom Kuffel ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homebuilt "Major" Changes From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer Tom, guess I was thinking of cert. a/c....Said: " On cert. a/c whenever a major repair or change is..." Of course you're correct on exps. Then the experimentals that are/will be certified... regards Bob N. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:06 PM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Ace Hardware aircraft supply --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Anything wrong with using the hardware store aluminum angle for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into strips that came with my kit for covering the gas tank trays and I am lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:29 PM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ball Joints --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" Help. I am coming up on 25 hours on my Rotax 503 and the maintenance schedule recommends that I lubricate the ball joints. What ball joints? Vic Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ball Joints From: Bob Noyer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer muffler bn ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:04 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ball Joints --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Vic about the only place I can think of Vic is the exhaust ball connectors between the muffler and the manifuld y- pipe Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:53 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ball Joints --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/2003 10:57:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, donghe@one-eleven.net writes: Vic about the only place I can think of Vic is the exhaust ball connectors between the muffler and the manifuld y- pipe You use anti-sieze. Howard Shackleford FS II SC