Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: heat treating gear legs (Larry Bourne)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply (Guy Morgan)
3. 07:34 AM - Heat treating (bryan green)
4. 07:38 AM - Fuel tank (bryan green)
5. 08:43 AM - Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply (jerb)
6. 09:03 AM - Re: Heat treating (Ben Ransom)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply (Larry Bourne)
8. 09:21 AM - Re: winter projects (Larry Bourne)
9. 12:21 PM - Straightening (Bob N.)
10. 12:43 PM - Re: Fuel tank (Jim Baker)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply (Guy Morgan)
12. 03:08 PM - who owns (ronnie wehba)
13. 03:28 PM - Re: Fuel tank (possums)
14. 03:58 PM - Jack's Project (Mike Pierzina)
15. 07:37 PM - Re: winter projects (Russell Phillips)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: heat treating gear legs |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
If you're adventuresome.................in high school, we ground files down
to make knives, then heat treated them. It worked un-believably well.
After final shaping, heat it cherry, glowing red, then quench it in melted
lard. Be careful, and dunk it quick, or you'll have a fire. Then,
carefully, re-heat it till it turns a straw color, and let it cool naturally
in the air. Shouldn't be too hard to do it Bob's way and find out what
temperature "straw" color is, and it'd be a lot more precise. I know it
makes for terrific knife blades, cause I did it. Will I do my own landing
gear like that ?? Nope............I'll pay the man, but I agree - $500.00
is out of line. I guess John's still on his trip, but I'm sure he didn't
pay that. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: heat treating gear legs
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> Sure sounds like bait-n-switch to me. All you need to heat treat is
> an electric oven (kitchen model won't do) with an accurate temp
> readout. First the item is heated to red hot with out reaching
> the droop temp and then rapid quenched. Then stuck in the
> electric furnace to reach the applicable temp that actually reduces
> the temper to what you want. When I do a cluster I quench with
> a wet rag to put a little firmness back in, yup a little guesswork to
> judge the mass I'm working with. -Too much, you have a brittle
> structure and too little you have a spot that will sag a bit with the
> first hard landing. Check with John H's Alabama treater to see
> what they want. -BB do not archive
>
> Joel Reed wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joel Reed" <jfreed@dejazzd.com>
> >
> >Hello Kolbers,
> >
> > I have wanted to make my own landing gear and I got some 4130 tubing
and have cut them to length and I wanted to sent them out to get heat
treated and I wanted to find out how much it would cost and it seems like
its a enpensive process to do the heat treating. I had called Braddock, in
New Jersey and the plant manager had gave me a quote of $125 and I thought
that was a good deal and send my tubing over to them but the employee who is
doing my tubing said it would exceed $500 to do my tubing. I thought that
was too much so I thought I would ask the list and find out if that is the
normal or is there another place that you know of that would do it for less.
> >
> >Thanks
> > Joel
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
<TCSTUART@ADELPHIA.NET>Anything wrong with using the hardware store aluminum angle
for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting brackets? I don't plan
on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into strips that came with my kit
for covering the gas tank trays and I am lining the gas tank bracket angles
with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
<IMG height=2 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif" width="100%" vspace=9>
I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff is too
soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas tankbrackets. Also,
I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat them and at least prime
them before installing if you're in a corrosion-prone area. I would do it
anyway. But, then again I work in aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes
to this kind of stuff. Spend the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
Guy Morgan,
Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=">Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan now!
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I called Braddock to get a price quote on treating the gear legs for my Firestar
I and the said it would be approx. $132.50 for the pair.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Kolbers, I am going to recover my cockpit and would like to install a ten gallon
tank at the same time. If you have some links to different options they would
be appreciated.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Would heat treating for general mechanical parts (brackets) be
necessary. I think this is far over board for the application. Gee they
build Cessna's and Piper's - they just use the proper material size, alloy,
and temper, for the application. No special heat treating. I would not
use the commercial aluminum you purchase at the local hardware store for
any major structural part. It's too soft and easy to deform or tear out
when under forces. Your probably looking for 6061-T6 - they use a lot of
it on Van Aircraft kits for brackets and so forth. If they can hold
together doing aerobatics, I think it should be more than adequate for your
application. You can get aluminum from Aircraft Spruce by the foot -
or Shapiro Supply, links below.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mainpage.php
http://www.shapirosupply.com/
At 02:32 PM 12/15/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
>
>
><TCSTUART@ADELPHIA.NET>Anything wrong with using the hardware store
>aluminum angle for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting
>brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into
>strips that came with my kit for covering the gas tank trays and I am
>lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal
>tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
>
>
><IMG height=2 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif" width="100%"
>vspace=9>
>
>
>I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff
>is too soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas
>tankbrackets. Also, I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat
>them and at least prime them before installing if you're in a
>corrosion-prone area. I would do it anyway. But, then again I work in
>aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes to this kind of stuff. Spend
>the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
>
>
>Guy Morgan,
>
>
>Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
>
>
> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=">Wonder if the latest virus
> has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online
> computer scan now!
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Heat treating |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
I just got my 4130 legs back from the Braddock plant in Anniston
Alabama. Total cost for the pair, including whatever electric
surcharge and shipping was $81. If you call Braddock, call the local
plant instead of the 800 number. The 800 number is their central
office, and it seemed they were less interested in small orders such as
this. If you call the Anniston office (local number), the plant
manager will probably remember me calling him just last Thursday to
politely complain that my gear came back a lot more bent than he
predicted (see my previous post). My tone was more to ask what could
be done about it rather than to whine, so I would certainly think he'd
be open to doing more, so long as you assure him you understand that
bending is expected.
Per Bob Bean's recommendation, I'm going to see if I can get the more
severe bend corrected by nudging it cold in a press. I'm hopeful this
will go well as I did the same with previous legs. Hate to say, but
I'm getting good at this. :) Due to bending from heat treatment, I
recommend you save some hole drilling somewhere to allow for adjustment
after getting the legs back. (Expect use of cobalt drill bit and some
serious umph to get thru heat treated 4130.)
-Ben Ransom
--- bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
> I called Braddock to get a price quote on treating the gear legs for
> my Firestar I and the said it would be approx. $132.50 for the pair.
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Wasn't the heat treating thread regarding landing gear ?? Sure is necessary
there. For non-critical parts, (see my web-page on Building Vamoose/Seats &
Fuel System) I used Ace aluminum angle for my seat mounts, and after 5 or 6
years of climbing in & out of it, and making vroom vroom noises, they show
no sign of de-formation. They're about the only thing on the whole plane
that isn't scratched, for alla that. :-) Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Ace Hardware aircraft supply
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
> Would heat treating for general mechanical parts (brackets) be
> necessary. I think this is far over board for the application. Gee they
> build Cessna's and Piper's - they just use the proper material size,
alloy,
> and temper, for the application. No special heat treating. I would not
> use the commercial aluminum you purchase at the local hardware store for
> any major structural part. It's too soft and easy to deform or tear out
> when under forces. Your probably looking for 6061-T6 - they use a lot of
> it on Van Aircraft kits for brackets and so forth. If they can hold
> together doing aerobatics, I think it should be more than adequate for
your
> application. You can get aluminum from Aircraft Spruce by the foot -
> or Shapiro Supply, links below.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mainpage.php
> http://www.shapirosupply.com/
>
> At 02:32 PM 12/15/03 +0000, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> >Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
> >
> >
> ><TCSTUART@ADELPHIA.NET>Anything wrong with using the hardware store
> >aluminum angle for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting
> >brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into
> >strips that came with my kit for covering the gas tank trays and I am
> >lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal
> >tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
> >
> >
> ><IMG height=2 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif"
width="100%"
> >vspace=9>
> >
> >
> >I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff
> >is too soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas
> >tankbrackets. Also, I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat
> >them and at least prime them before installing if you're in a
> >corrosion-prone area. I would do it anyway. But, then again I work in
> >aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes to this kind of stuff. Spend
> >the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
> >
> >
> >Guy Morgan,
> >
> >
> >Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
> >
> >
> > <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=">Wonder if the latest
virus
> > has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online
> > computer scan now!
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: winter projects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yah, the EIS is a dandy toy, and much more efficient................but some
of us just love looking at steam gauges. Even in my work (refrigeration) I
still prefer analog instruments over digital for many applications. Proves
I'm an old F---, I guess. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
> Curious, what is it about the EIS you don't like. I love it, have one in
> each of our planes.
> jerb
> do not archive
>
> snip..
> I'm having a problem fitting all the gauges I feel are necessary in the
> space. Any ideas? (note - not a fan of EIS)
> snip....
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
I have more than once(!) had to straighten 30-36"mower blades that had
tried to uproot "hidden" pipes, stumps, and et ceteri. I take them out
to arpt maint shop and ease them back, cold, in 20T hyd press. Just bend
a little beyond the straightness you want, and they will usually end up
OK. Just take it easy.
Bob N.
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
Try
http://www.ronco-plastics.com/
Use the search function to select the tank according to size (gal)
constraints. Someone's bound to complain that these are not
"aircraft" tanks but are made of the same HDPE material that TNK
supplies. Not exactly the cheapest, either, but if you need one in a
specific size where else you going to go?
>
> Kolbers, I am going to recover my cockpit and would like to install a
> ten gallon tank at the same time. If you have some links to different
> options they would be appreciated. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I
> 19LBG 377 BRS
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> ====
>
>
>
>
J.Baker
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
Sorry guys. By "treat" I meant etch and Alodyne before you paint 'em, not heat
treat.
Guy Morgan
Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
do not archive
Wasn't the heat treating thread regarding landing gear ?? Sure is necessary there. For non-critical parts, (see my web-page on Building Vamoose/Seats Fuel System) I used Ace aluminum angle for my seat mounts, and after 5 or 6 years of climbing in out of it, and making vroom vroom noises, they show no sign of de-formation. They're about the only thing on the whole plane that isn't scratched, for alla that. :-) Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com
Would heat treating for general mechanical parts (brackets) be necessary. I think
this is far over board for the application. Gee they build Cessna's and
Piper's - they just use the proper material size, alloy, and temper, for the
application. No special heat treating. I would not use the commercial aluminum
you purchase at the local hardware store for any major structural part.
It's too soft and easy to deform or tear out when under forces. Your probably
looking for 6061-T6 - they use a lot of it on Van Aircraft kits for brackets
and so forth. If they can hold together doing aerobatics, I think it should
be more than adequate for your application.
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2746??PS=">Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home.
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
the ultrastar with the yellow/white tail,black fairing, converted to a center stick?,
reply off list thanks.
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 03:43 PM 12/15/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
>
>Try
>
>http://www.ronco-plastics.com/
>
>Use the search function to select the tank according to size (gal)
>constraints. Someone's bound to complain that these are not
>"aircraft" tanks but are made of the same HDPE material that TNK
>supplies. Not exactly the cheapest, either, but if you need one in a
>specific size where else you going to go?
That's what I've got in mine. The "spin molded" tanks don't have any
seams and the fittings are spun-on at the factory. The walls are about 1/8 +
inch thick and plenty strong. The main attraction is that you can see you gas.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modfowdframe.jpg
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Jack,
I like the way your project is turning out...
I'll have to check it out myself later...
But I don't like the JB weld. I think screws could be slightly counter sunk (
or a safety wire ) and a high temp silicone could be used to seal the area below.
Glad to hear from you,
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN -FSII Painting Trim Colors
Do Not Archive
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have re-worked the Bing carburetor dribble bib to make it lighter and to
reduce the chance of anything being sucked into the engine. The latest
update can be seen on the bottom of:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly90.html
This is a long html with many photos, so it will take a while to load.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Free Poetry Contest. Win $10,000. Submit your poem @ Poetry.com!
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6750922;3807821;l?http://www.poetry.com/contest/contest.asp?Suite=A59101
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: winter projects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Russell Phillips" <rphillip1999@hotmail.com>
Thanks everyone for all the ideas. The extended panel looks like a good option.
The dunebuggy website gastank looks like a real good possibility and the price
is right.
I think Lar has my number. My work involves steam gauges, also heating and cooling.
And I suppose I"m to the stage where I could be considered an old F---. I
think that is the main reason I lean towards analog gauges, although I have seen
on the list in the past a few times when EIS caused a real headache for some.
(could be isolated problems)
Russ
do not archive
-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <BIGLAR@GOGITTUM.COM>
Yah, the EIS is a dandy toy, and much more efficient................but some
of us just love looking at steam gauges.Even in my work (refrigeration) I
still prefer analog instruments over digital for many applications.Proves
I'm an old F---, I guess.Lar. Do not
Archive.
From: "jerb" <ULFLYER@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: winter projects
-- Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ULFLYER@VERIZON.NET>
Curious, what is it about the EIS you don't like.I love it, have one in
each of our planes.
jerb
do not archive
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2737??PS=">Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you!
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