Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - slingshot (Ted Cowan)
2. 06:29 AM - RedGreen lives! (artdog1512)
3. 07:00 AM - Re: slingshot (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: slingshot (ul15rhb@juno.com)
5. 07:14 AM - Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's (Richard Pike)
6. 11:39 AM - Re: carbon buildup (Don Gherardini)
7. 12:15 PM - Re: heat treating (Ben Ransom)
8. 12:17 PM - Grinch Ate My Computer (jhauck@elmore.rr.com)
9. 12:51 PM - 2 cycle oil (Paul Petty)
10. 01:17 PM - Re: Grinch Ate My Computer (Terry)
11. 02:21 PM - Re: 2 cycle oil (Don Gherardini)
12. 03:10 PM - Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... (Matt Dralle)
13. 05:38 PM - Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's (Thom Riddle)
14. 06:00 PM - Re: carbon buildup (Eugene Zimmerman)
15. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: heat treating (John Hauck)
16. 07:07 PM - Seafoam (possums)
17. 08:18 PM - Re: Seafoam (Larry Bourne)
18. 08:24 PM - Re: Seafoam (Bob N.)
19. 08:42 PM - Re: oil gage (GeoR38@aol.com)
20. 09:09 PM - Yoopers (possums)
21. 10:22 PM - Re: Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's (Don Gherardini)
22. 10:27 PM - Re: carbon buildup (Don Gherardini)
23. 10:48 PM - Re: Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's (Richard Pike)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <tcowan1917@direcway.com>
Been watching and lurking on the list and now I have a few observations and
comments. Firstly, I set up my slingshot the way the factory specified,
using the (almost) 3 inch risers on the engine to clear the wing fold
mechanism and such. Well, at take off, it was almost more than I could
overcome on the roll out. The nose would take a drastic drop and a realy
heavy elevator was the action of the day. Well, copying another slingshot,
I noticed that there was a 5/8" difference in the rear of the mount to the
front, i.e., the front was tilted down to more closely match the prop to the
boom attitude during flight. Well, after many trials and errors, I got it
around 3/4" difference and took all the strain out of take-off. The engine
being elevated so high was thought by the factory to present a possible
problem on aborting a landing but with my configuration, there seems to be
no problem now, a very light stick. Well, the added benefits were that the
fuel consumption went way down and the ability to climb went way up. Now
gets a nice 1200 fpm climb out quite regularily. I am a little heavy, 500
lbs dry but I have tried up to 150 lbs in back seat with just a little extra
run way needed to obtain speed and I think adding some air to the tires
would take care of that. Now to get to the point I was heading for. I
started out getting about five and a half gals of gas per hour burn at
around 5600 rpm. (cruise 75 to 80) Now, I get a respectable 70-72 mph at
around 5100 rpm and at 5600 rpm I am closer to 85 or more mph. I found that
around 5900 rpm I am getting close to 95 and had it up to a hundred at 6000
but did not do it long enough to obtain a WOT speed. I kind of chickened
out at a hundred mph. The best thing is I now am getting around three and a
third gal per hour burn at the 70 mph speed, four gals per hour at the 80
and then it goes up to about five gals an hour if I really push it up.
Havent tested that one yet. My egts are running around 1080 to 1140 highest
and my chts are around the 260 mark constantly and my water temps stay down
to about 160 on the hard push. My inquiry is whether or not a 582 could or
should sustain the low rpms of 5200 and verying to 5600 occasionally without
damaging the engine with carbon or anything. I would love to continue
flying at 75 mph at around 5250 rpms and get the 21 mpg consumption. whats
the take on these figures. Guys, gotta remember, I am only pushing 22 foot
of wing and 700 lbs with me in it so it aint no locomotive like the Mk II.
by the way, the baby purrrrrs at around 5200. likes it there. I have been
told that ast that low rpm, it will build large quanties of carbon under the
pistons and take out the crank. ted cowan, alabama
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 03:50:48 PM PST US
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flew on skiis today.
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> OK OK Dose disc brakes on dose skis don't work well
but
> dem holes in da floor for da feet work great! Scott
Trask
> U.P.er P.S best ideas Red Green show
i watch RedGreen every week! never miss an
episode! there's much wisdom in that program. every
ultralighter should watch..... tim
do not archive
__________________________________
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
> by the way, the baby purrrrrs at around 5200. likes it there. I have been
> told that ast that low rpm, it will build large quanties of carbon under the
> pistons and take out the crank. ted cowan, alabama
Ted we have a 582 on a MKII and most of it's 500+ hrs. are between
4200-5000 rpm. We have the prop. pitched for about 6000 max. rpm (peak
torque) and an efficient cruise. We have never done any thing to this
engine except change spark plugs. Oh yes we did take the oil injection
off when we got it. I don't know if that would have any effect or not.
FWIW -- Earl
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
-- Ted Cowan <tcowan1917@direcway.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <tcowan1917@direcway.com>
I have been
told that ast that low rpm, it will build large quanties of carbon under the
pistons and take out the crank. ted cowan, alabama
Ted,
I know the 447 does just fine at 5100 all the time in cruise. To keep the carbon
buildup down, use synthetic oil like Klotz KL-216 or other Klotz synthetic 2-stroke
oils. They don't produce carbon like Pennzoil and other mineral oils (don't
want to start a flame war, but it's true).
As you well know, I give mine the Seafoam treatments every 25 hours or so. My cylinders
are very clean and look like brand new in there.
I'm saving on engine wear, it has well over 400 hours on it. I don't plan to do
an overhaul for another 200 hours. This is what synthetics will do for you.
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Not enough time on my 582 yet to have an opinion, but I ran my 532 for
about 250 hours at 5000-5400 rpm's solo, and around 56-5700 RPM's two up
with no carbon problems, was using Phillips Injex. I tried to keep the
EGT's around 1150 to 1175. I think that carbon build up is more a function
of EGT temperature, lead in the gas, and the type of oil than it is RPM's.
And I agree, 5200 RPM is a smooth ride.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 08:04 AM 12/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <tcowan1917@direcway.com>
><snip>
>
>My inquiry is whether or not a 582 could or
>should sustain the low rpms of 5200 and verying to 5600 occasionally without
>damaging the engine with carbon or anything. I would love to continue
>flying at 75 mph at around 5250 rpms and get the 21 mpg consumption. whats
>the take on these figures. Guys, gotta remember, I am only pushing 22 foot
>of wing and 700 lbs with me in it so it aint no locomotive like the Mk II.
>by the way, the baby purrrrrs at around 5200. likes it there. I have been
>told that ast that low rpm, it will build large quanties of carbon under the
>pistons and take out the crank. ted cowan, alabama
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:carbon buildup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Ted,
ON the subject of carbon buildup..let me share with you and the troops here
the results of alot of ongoing and extensive testing we do around here. And
we strive to get our engines to go for thousands of hours...not hundreds.
1st, carbon buildup...vs. temps.
These are related, but not in the areas that some might think. The largest
contributor to excess carbon build up is the residual materials left over
after the fuel mixture is burned. Lets call it the ashes for a visual model.
Alot of different things are in this "carbon" as we call it...a large
quantity is basically "dirt". This comes into the mixture from many avenues.
It can come from the fuel..the gas can..thru the air filter...and of course
from the oil. Usually the second highest source is the oil, so we will
concentrate on this.
Now petroleum based lubes are Hydrocarbons, so obviously we have a carbon
content to deal with.but the carbon we deal with here is more a subject of
the residue left after the burn...some call it "unburned residue"...but that
term does not work well here because of what really is going on in the
combustion chamber.
Since the combustion process here is related to a time factor...lets try and
breakdown that first.
On a basic level which will suffice for this discussion, lets just say that
the gasoline burns first..and the oil second. We wont go into flame front
speeds and different rates at different compression ratios, burn rates at
temp different levels and so on..because generally the gasoline still burns
first.
OH ya..Since Ralph mentioned synthetics..I better say quickly that we are
only talking about petro-based oils here!..Ill get to synthetics later.
OK..it is pretty easy to understand that if a low quality high ash content
oil is used we are likely to have alot of "carbon" left after the mix is
burned and if it doesnt exit the cyl somehow..it will buildup and cause
probs. The KEY word in the above sentence is EXIT! We really dont care about
how many ashes are left over from the burn if we can get rid of em
right?.... Herein lies the the secret to a long life 2 stroke men!
Now..where does temp relate?...Well many of you have seen the sides of a
piston "painted"with a brownish varnish looking substance.This is an
indication that there is an excess in the amount of oil in the mixture and
the engine is not burning it and I assure you, it is the begining of a
failure. The failure will come as a result of the degraded skirt/cyl wall
clearance. As this varnish builds.. we have less oil film on the cyl wall
and pretty soon...we are going to fail..this could come from a rapid
cooling...from a long haul and high heat building up...cold starts and high
loads....lots of failures are blamed on these happenings but in reality..it
was just to lack of clearance at the moment..
This condition can be induced from a fella thinking that "More is better"
and mixes his oil at a higher the recommended ratio. (Most common cause), or
a over rich condition on the fuel air ratio.("I'm gonna keep my engine
cool"), or a malfunction in an oil injection system...lots of ways.
How this relates to carbon buildup is actually a secondary reason for
failure.
Visually, picture in slow motion the combustion process. The spark ignites
the mixture and the flame front travels across the chamber. When it gets
done there is unburned oil...not the ashes...but plain liquid oil left on
the top of the piston that didnt burn because there was too much of it to
burn up in the time available.(remember the gas burns faster than the oil) A
portion of what is left is exhausted, and as it goes out thru the port it
coats the sides of the port with a oil film also. Now...as the cylinder
wall, block, piston all continue to heat up the volatiles in this oil film
all evaporate and it gets thicker..and eventually ends up as the varnish you
see on the piston skirt..it attracts the "dirts and ashes" left over from
what does burn and we see the result as a buildup of black carbon like stuff
on the top of the piston and the sides of the exhaust port and in the worst
cases...in the lands between the rings or the piston wall above the ring. We
usually dont see this carbon buildup on the skirt below the rings because
the rings kept the dirt above this point.When we do see this carbon below
the rings...well it is because we are examining a failed engine! When the
Dirt gets below the rings...failure comes very fast.
So...in summary of the root of a carbon buildup...its the "dirt and ashes"
left over from the burn stuck to the oil film that didnt burn that gets
cooked into that abrasive enemy of engine durability.
Prevention?....Whew...Examine all the possible sources...dirty air..dirty
fuel..high ash oils....heavy oil ratio...over rich fuel/air mixture.
Also, particularly on an engine run at a high load and constant rpm.(like
cruise on an airplane...or peak load on a generator), operating the engine
at the rpm level of peak volumetric efficiency. This will be at an rpm level
closer to the peak torque...NOT the peak horsepower. This level helps the
exit of all that "dirt and ashes" that we dont want sticking around in
there.
Also of course...cyl head temp....
"WHAT???.."You mean EGT dont you?".....nope fellas...I mean CHT. What we
really need to see here is PDT (piston dome temp)..but we dont have access
to that, so CHT is the closest we can come.
Without some very extensive information...your EGT only tells you how much
heat is LEAVING your engine....not how much is retained.
Without an EGT prob placed at 1/2 inch intervals starting inside the exhaust
port, and spaced all in a row clear out to the muffler joint will you ever
get enough quantitive temp data to help you. UNfortunatly, the point of
peak temp of the exhaust gas changes in distance from the cylinder skirt
with rpms, and manifold vacuum (read that as load), so when you see your EGT
dropping...it likely means the hottest point of the burn is just somewhere
else in the pipe than your EGT probe is.
Any of you ever notice that sometimes in certain conditions the EGT drops
and the CHT goes up? ...That is why.
Anybody ever wonder why some engines have lower recommended Max EGTs than
others? EGT probe placement is why. Not fuel/air mixtures.
Anybody ever change mufflers or pipes but retain the same manifold pipe or
EGT probe placement and see a drastic difference in the EGT readings?
SAme reasons men...we have simply changed the distance of the hottest point
in the Exhaust gas.
EGT is an important factor in tuning your engine...but it is much more
complicated than one might think.
OK back to CHT then. Now of course...as some have suggested..running at too
low a CHT temp can contribute to carbon buildup..due actually to even less
of the oil in the mixture being burned completely and giving it a better
chance of building up into so heavy a coating that the "varnish" buildup
really becomes a problem.
Varible factors include,
relationship of CHT to PDT....closest on aircooled engines....farthest on
Liquid cooled.
Cast iron cyls vs Nikasil coated cyls.
Higher silicone content in piston alloys ...
and of course the general cooling efficiency on any particular engine.
However still..It can be *generally* said, running an engine too cool will
contribute to carbon buildup.
If we had the ability to modify the fuel/oil ratio in flight...if we had the
ability to modify the Fuel/air ratio in flight, we could overcome this
factor.
If the ratios are set for optimum at a lower rpm level...it would be
different, and we could run em cooler...but then we would be in danger at
higher rpms and heavier loads. So that is why I said..*generally*.
Ralph mentioned that synthetics dont buildup carbon as much as some other
brands of non-synthetics do. I assure you, this is true. Not because the
synthetics lubricate better necessarliy,.. although they have synthetic
lubes that can make an elephant slip on sandpaper...
These companies have ettempted to get the lubricants flash point closer to
that of gasoline and duplicate the burn rates, so we have a more complete
and even burn of the fuel mixture and nothing is left behind. Therein lies
their advantages, not how slipperey they are...for that really is not an
issue as long as the alum piston does not touch the cyl wall...and the
clearance is maintained by what ever medium is there..nothing can be gained.
Well men..got kinda long winded again...it is a slow day at the office...My
sec....err.. I mean administrative assistant is hollering at me and the
eggnog is begining to be served downstairs...Looks like I'm going to be able
to quit thinking of infernal combustion engines for awhile and enjoy a few
holidays with time off!!!!
Happy Holidays, and to all of you in better climates suitable for commit'n
aviation...Blue Skies!
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: heat treating |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Joel,
I finally got around to straightening the leg that came back bent from
heat treating. I talked to the machinist in the shop I have access
to, and he really thought I was going overboard to try straightening
instead of just making one leg shorter, or whatever, to achieve level
stance on the ground. But, we felt like screwing around with it just
for kicks. It is amazing how much deflection (and force) this leg will
take.
Thanks also Bob Bean, for your advice!
Here's details and a photo.
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/ransom/BensAlbum/build/rlegstraight.html
Happy Holidays!!
-Ben
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Grinch Ate My Computer |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jhauck@elmore.rr.com
--------------------------------------------------
Here is a message for you from http://web2mail.com
The easy way to read and send POP email on the web
--------------------------------------------------
Hello All:
If I do not respond to your messages, please forgive me.
The Xmas Grinch ate my primary and alternate hard drives. Well, the truth is,
I was using a Ghost Image from my back up to the newly formated C Drive, got the
damn sequence backwards and Ghosted the backup, which promptly cleaned it off
in the same formatted manner as the C drive. My son is going to try and work
some magic to recover my 6 years of data. I may have to send it to one of
those specialist to try and recover it, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I do have some stuff backed up on CDs, but not all of it. My fault, didn't measure
three times before I cut. hehehe
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
PS: This is being sent from Nell's computer in town. I am heading for Mobile
tomorrow and should be back up with RR and email by the time I get back this weekend.
The trials of modern life. :-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.60, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Don/Kolbers,
A very long time ago I rode a little 80cc Yamaha dirt bike. The motorcycle starting
getting weaker and weaker until it finally would not start. After taking
it in for service, the mechanic ask me "What kinda oil are you running in this
bike?" I replied 2 cycle oil. He said"what brand" I replied well for the past
few months its been Johnson outboard oil because my daddy has cases of it. He
explained to me that outboards run at constant rpms and constant loads. And motorcycles
are constantly changing rpms and loads and they required different
oils. What had happened to my bike was the carbon had stopped the exhaust port
completely up. All he had to do was clean it out and full power was restored.
I was like 10 yrs old at the time and what he said made sense, but I have never
totally understood the concept. Anyone care to explain? Don maybe?
While were sharing long stories in the chill of winter here's one for the 2 strokers.
When I was 12yrs old, I had a little hydroplane that I raced at the local
lake in east Texas. Upon losing to a smaller kid I decided to juice up my fuel
with a healthy dose of lacquer thinner. Made 1 1/2 laps before I locked up
a brand new 12.5hp Johnson outboard!!!! Dad was not a happy camper really let
me have it. I replied "But dad, I was winning!!!"
take care
pp
do not archive
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Grinch Ate My Computer |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
jhauck@elmore.rr.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jhauck@elmore.rr.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Here is a message for you from http://web2mail.com
> The easy way to read and send POP email on the web
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Hello All:
>
> If I do not respond to your messages, please forgive me.
>
> The Xmas Grinch ate my primary and alternate hard drives. Well, the truth is,
I was using a Ghost Image from my back up to the newly formated C Drive, got
the damn sequence backwards and Ghosted the backup, which promptly cleaned it
off in the same formatted manner as the C drive. My son is going to try and
work some magic to recover my 6 years of data. I may have to send it to one of
those specialist to try and recover it, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I do have some stuff backed up on CDs, but not all of it. My fault, didn't
measure three times before I cut. hehehe
>
> Merry Xmas and Happy New Year,
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
> PS: This is being sent from Nell's computer in town. I am heading for Mobile
tomorrow and should be back up with RR and email by the time I get back this
weekend. The trials of modern life. :-)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
John,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and Nell! Hope your holidays are good
and you get some air time.
Terry - FireFly
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Paul,
Well, I dunno ...that mechanic was certainly correct in that using liquid
cooled mix in an aircooled engine is not right..but not for carbon build up
usually.
More likely..it was due to the engine running to rich in either carb
adjust...or oil mixture...or poor airfiltration.
Eggnog is about gone men...and if I can see straight..I'm going home!
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Starting at about 1:05pm PDT Matronics starting having intermittent
connectivity issues to the Internet. I've called the ISP and they are
looking into the problem and may do intrusive testing on the line at some
point this afternoon/evening. For the most part, things seem to be working
right now, but the line will drop out every once in a while for 2 to 3 minutes.
This problem will effect connections to the Matronics Web server as well as
distribution of List mail.
I will post a follow up when the problem has been resolved... Hopefully
later today.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Don,
Thanks for the wonderful education! I learned more there than from reading everything
available from the CPS catalog. A couple things you said though did not
quite get through my old thick skull. I'm particularly interested in learning
more about Nikasil vs. Cast Iron cylinders. Which is preferable and why. If you
can take the time to explain this I, for one, would really appreciate this.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:carbon buildup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Don Gherardini wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Ted,
> ON the subject of carbon buildup..
snip snip
Ok Don,
You informed us real good on everything except the Seafoam clean up.
Are there real chemical decarbon products. If so what is the active
active ingredient and what does it do to seals and gaskets?
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: heat treating |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I finally got around to straightening the leg that came back bent from
> heat treating.
> -Ben
Hi Ben/All:
Glad it worked out for you.
If you had some normalized 4130 in the same size you could do a little
experiment on how stiff it is and how little it takes to put a permanent
bend into it, compared the the greater flexibility of the heat treated 4130.
I have a couple gear legs that need some tweeking to get the back to near
straight once again.
How did you make out drilling the legs after heat treatment?
After the gear leg/axle socket failure a couple years ago, I have gone to
what Brother Jim recommended way back in 1991 when we were fabricating the
steel stuff. Weld the axle socket to the gear leg, align, then send them
off for heat treating. I don't want to go through the Muncho Lake problem
again. A little more difficult to get things straight, but much more
durable.
I got the ole computer back up on an early version of Win98 to read my mail
at home tonight. I'll drop it off with my Son tomorrow on the way to
Mobile. Hopefully, I can get my email files, addresses, bookmarks, and a
few other things back from my cleaned off hard drive. If I can't, then I
will start all over again.
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year,
john h
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 08:59 PM 12/23/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
><eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>
>Ok Don,
> You informed us real good on everything except the Seafoam clean up.
>Are there real chemical decarbon products. If so what is the active
>active ingredient and what does it do to seals and gaskets?
Seafoan? What's seafoam???
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Oh, you sooooo baaaaaddd ! ! ! Have you no mercy ?? Lar.
Do not Archive. Happy Holidays, everyone.............even
Possum. :-)
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Seafoam
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
> At 08:59 PM 12/23/2003, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
> ><eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
> >
> >Ok Don,
> > You informed us real good on everything except the Seafoam clean up.
> >Are there real chemical decarbon products. If so what is the active
> >active ingredient and what does it do to seals and gaskets?
>
> Seafoan? What's seafoam???
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Awww geez...we ain't gonna start The Interminable Seafoam Thread again!
The archives surely oughta be full of Seafoam--from more than three
years ago.
Or maybe that was on FLY-UL?
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
A problem with losing ground on an electric pressure or temp
gauge usually gives an indication of full needle swing to
the highest indication.
Take care,
john h
sounds like you have an overload when you switch on the light......do you have
a regulator?
Its job is to compensate for load changes within limits
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages Fl
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 06:50 PM 12/22/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>Rookie Yooper (A couple more flights to Scott's, and I may
>qualify as a full fledged Yooper with eligibility to join
>the Possum Lodge and get an autograph from Red Green)
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
Yoopers are kind of an odd mixture of people. Watching them in an
objective sort of way they remind me of "The Red Green Show," "Northern
Exposure," and a strange and bewildering twist of world cultures, but they
are some of the nicest people you'd ever like to meet, and they are unlike
any other people anywhere else in the world. The term "Yooper" is slang
for a person who lives in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, or the "U.P."
(the area north of Wisconsin and Lake Michigan). Those who live in the
Lower Peninsula are called "Trolls," because they live below the bridge
(<http://www.mackinacbridge.org/>Mackinac Bridge that connects the U.P. to
the rest of the state). During Deer Hunting Season, the Trolls are also
called "Apple Knockers" because it is generally believed that they couldn't
hit the broadside of a barn if it had a huge red target painted on it, and
rather than actually hitting deer, they just knock the apples off the trees.
Yooper Temperature Conversion Chart
50 above - New Yorkers try to turn on the heat - Yoopers plant gardens
40 above - Californians shiver uncontrollably - Yoopers sunbathe
35 above - Italian cars won't start - Yoopers drive with the windows down
32 above - Distilled water freezes - Lake Superior water gets thicker
20 above - Floridians wear coats, gloves, hats - Yoopers throw on a T-
shirt, maybe
15 above - Californians begin to evacuate the state - Yoopers go swimming
0 - NY landlords turn on the heat - Yoopers have the last cook out before
it gets cold
10 below - People in Miami cease to exist - Yoopers lick the flagpole
20 below - Californians fly away to Mexico - Yoopers throw on a light jacket
40 below - Hollywood disintegrates - Yoopers rent some videos
60 below - Mt. St. Helens freezes - U.P. Girl Scouts begin selling cookies
door-to-door
80 below - Polar bears evacuate Antarctica - U.P. Boy Scouts postpone
"Winter Survival"
100 below - Santa Claus abandons the North Pole - Yoopers pull down their
earflaps
173 below - Ethyl alcohol freezes - Yoopers get frustrated when they can't
thaw the keg
297 below - Microbial life survives on dairy products - U.P. cows complain
of farmers with cold hands
460 below - ALL atomic motion stops - Yoopers start saying... "Cold 'nuff
for ya?"
500 below - Hell freezes over - The Detroit Lions win the Super Bowl
A down-stater was sitting at the bar in Republic and asked the bartender
if he would like to hear a Yooper joke. The bartender leaned over and said,
"Do you see that guy in the corner? He is the local sheriff, and he is a
Yooper. The man at end of the bar works for the DNR and he is a Yooper. And
buddy, I myself am of Yooperish descent. Now, are you sure you still want
to tell a Yooperlander joke?" The down-stater replied, "No, not if I have
to explain it three times!"
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Tom/ and the gang,
Whew...I hope this isnt to boreing for all the other fellas on this list. I
guess if it is...like it has been said, you dont have to read what you dont
want to.
Nickle-silicon cyl coatings.
in a previous life...of maybe I should say at a previous employer...I was on
a design team working on a 2 cyle chain saw engine. jeez..I hate to think
that it was so many years ago..but..early 80s... We were trying to bust what
generally in the industry we called the 10,000 rpm barrier. we could easily
get a engine over those rpms..but we could not meet the design requirements
for engine life span. You see the smaller the bore..the tighter the skirt
clearance needed for piston stability..(rocking)..and when we lowered the
clearances..we just could not keep the piston cool enough. we needed some
way to get better heat transfer from the piston to the cylinder wall...we
tried all kinds of crazy things...different steels in the
cylinder..different finishs, different chromes...when we would get a good
heat transfer...the cyl wall material was never porus enough to hold the oil
film ,,or the expansion rate was too far off to keep the tight
clearance....we couldnt increase the clearances because then we had piston
slap at the high rpms..so lots of different oils that would (supposedly)
transfer heat better..teflon coatings and other magic stuff like
that...nothing worked. We were really chasing our tail. Then one day a
salesman from the company that supplied us with cylinders (from Germany...we
were in Sweden) came thru with a new stuff they were coating cylinders
with..Nikasil he called it. This coating was very thin although very durable
he claimed, and porus enough to hold a good oil film at the then unheard of
.003 clearance we were needing. I should mention here this was a 100 cc
engine...so the bore was quite a bit smaller than what we usually deal with
in our little airplane engines. Well..we didnt like the idea at first.,
because number one it was so thin we didnt believe it could last the 1000
hours that was the target...and secondly..it would prevent the overhaul of a
cylinder buy the common method of boring and installing an oversize
piston.So the frugal swedes said no..we will figger out a way..
Then..that other chainsaw company in germany started using them, and they
seemed successful. So it was deemed we better give them a try. At first on
just one model..and we will see if the market will buy a saw that you cant
overhaul without purchasing new jugs and pistons everytime. Well the saw
worked real well..lasted longer than the target lifespan in testing, and the
market resistance was not as bad as anticipated...so within a year or so,
all of the Pro-models were equipped with these cylinders from Mahle...then
some from an Italian company called Guilardoni as they were developing a
similiar process. In the begining, the coatings were ok as long as no dirt
was injested thru the intake...but as soon as they got one whiff of
dirt...the coatings were gone. After a couple of years the cylinder
companies had developed a harder more durable mixture, and these problems
were reduced.
Anyway, this was an exciting time for me.As a young American engineer, I
couldnt get enough rpms out of anything got my hands on and now we were
putting out production saws that ran from 12,500 for a 100cc model to 16,000
rpms for a 42 cc saw...VAROOOM!!!!!
OK..now Mr. Riddle, how does this apply to our current passions...2 cycle
airplane engines???
Well, Not being involved with 2 cycle development anymore I am a little
behind, but here is what I think..not what I know..just what I think!
Now we dont need for our engines to run at 10K rpms. But we do need the best
heat transfer/cooling ability we can get because we run these engines at 80
to 100% duty cycle..and the more heat we can pull out of that piston, the
more power we can get from our engine because the hotter we can run that
combustion.
As previously mentioned...a Nikasil cylinder cannot be bored out without
recoating..and no USA company is doing these coatings to my knowledge due to
the EPA regulations the apply to the process..so if you get a single stripe
down the cylinder wall...its a new jug...
The resistance to dirt injestion is better than it was in the begining..but
still a long way from a cast iron or steel cyl liner., so it cannot be
judged as durable as a "conventional" cylinder.
Cost a helluva lot for a manufacturer to buy these jugs...and the end user.
However.....The heat transfer qualities are second to none at the level of
technology today for a material that is porus enough for an oil film to
adhere to.
Hard cast aluminum alloys can be used for cylinders instead of a steel liner
and coated...reducing the overall weight...bringing expansion rates of
piston and cylinder very close together, which is a very good thing.
Allowing an engine to be designed with tighter skirt/wall clearances..less
ring tension...(which is less parasitic load and less bore wear)
And Yes, I have seen that engine company make those claims about
invunerability to Shock Cooling....And I believe that its probably true due
to this combination of pistons and cylinders, Although I have no direct
expierience with them.
Durability is relative...some people will use these engines no more than 25
hours a year, and 200 or 300 hours is probably enough life for those
users...As I have observed in this industry for some time...the great
majority of 2 stroke Rotax engines out there never last more than a couple
of hundred hours, and an awful lot of people still buy them for their birds.
All you have to do is start looking at used airplanes...I will venture to
say that 7 out of 10 ads say something like this..."TTAF 300 hrs. new
503",,,, or "TTAF 275 hrs...newly overhauled Rotax *** with just 30 hours."
Now no matter what you read into this..I see that there are more Rotaxs on
used birds than any other brand...and most of them dont go 300 hours.
It has become acceptable to the market.
Also...an aircraft engine operates in generally a clean air enviroment for
the bulk of its time...so by nature they are less prone to prolonged dirt
injestion.
Many high performance engine applications have begun to use Nikasil coated
cylinders..including auto racing..I have no doubt it is because they can
simply get the heat out of the piston better..and therfore run a hotter
fuel..or a higher BMEP...(Brake mean effective pressure)..(basically just
more power).
So Thom, as with everything...there are compromises. I certainly cant say
that a Nikasil coated cyl is better than a cast iron or steel cyl, they are
different...and for some people...they are probably better..for some..they
are not...I hope I have explained what differences I am aware of correctly.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:carbon buildup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Zim....
Seafoam....
I have never used it...dont know how it works....cant say a thing here as I
am completey ignorant on the subject.
Doubt if I ever will because when I have an engine that needs something done
to it..I cant wait to tear it down and fix whatever it needs..look inside it
and see why...I just like wrenchs I reckon.....!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 @ 5200 rpm's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Boring, are you kidding? This is the most interesting thing in weeks.
So now let me throw you a politically charged question - why does a Rotax
2-cycle have a TBO of 300-400 hours, and a Rotax 4-cycle have a TBO of
1,000 hours?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 12:27 AM 12/24/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
>Tom/ and the gang,
>
>Whew...I hope this isnt to boreing for all the other fellas on this list. I
>guess if it is...like it has been said, you dont have to read what you dont
>want to.
<snip>
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|