---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/30/03: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine (Larry Bourne) 2. 04:44 AM - on/off switch (ronnie wehba) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: on/off switch (Dickk9@aol.com) 4. 07:40 AM - Re: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine (Olenik Aviation) 5. 07:44 AM - Re: on/off switch (Don Gherardini) 6. 07:50 AM - Re: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches (Larry Bourne) 7. 07:55 AM - Alaska trip (Russ Kinne) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: on/off switch (Denny Rowe) 9. 08:22 AM - Re: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches (Duncan McBride) 10. 08:31 AM - Re: marII twinstar (William George) 11. 08:58 AM - Propellor change (Terry) 12. 09:39 AM - Re: Propellor change (Dale Sellers) 13. 09:41 AM - Re: Propellor change (Richard Pike) 14. 10:04 AM - Re: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches (possums) 15. 10:43 AM - Propellor change (Terry) 16. 11:07 AM - Tom Olenik question about Rotax 503 (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 17. 11:42 AM - Re: Propellor change (John Cooley) 18. 12:19 PM - Re: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine (jerb) 19. 12:46 PM - Re: relocating oil tank (Richard Pike) 20. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: relocating oil tank (John Hauck) 21. 02:12 PM - drill bits (Paul Petty) 22. 02:43 PM - Re: Propellor change (Terry) 23. 02:50 PM - Re: drill bits (Larry Bourne) 24. 03:16 PM - Re: drill bits (Kelvin Kurkowski) 25. 05:01 PM - spam (boyd young) 26. 05:12 PM - Re: drill bits (jerb) 27. 06:01 PM - Re: Spam (Richard Harris) 28. 06:07 PM - Re: Propellor change (Earl & Mim Zimmerman) 29. 06:17 PM - Re: drill bits (Timandjan@aol.com) 30. 07:09 PM - Re: Spam (Larry Bourne) 31. 07:24 PM - Re: Spam (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:33 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I know it's a little outside the area you need, but I was highly impressed with Dennis Kirby's Verner engine when I visited him in Albuquerque last year. A little less power than the 912, but, unless I'm mistaken, quite a bit less money and (I think) less weight, too. Being air-cooled keeps it a little simpler, as well. He's got a very nice setup there, and he's very pleased with it. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > > Don, > You have to keep this into perspective - Tom can sell only what he can get > and make money on. Rotax no longer makes the 277 and judging by his recent > post sounds like Rotax is trying to make things difficult for him. He > began to push some 2Si but now that gig went South. What's left - Hirth, > Rotax or HKS. If you noticed he's now talking up the HKS. For smaller ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:47 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Kolb-List: on/off switch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" dumb question, cuyuna II-02, the other day taxi'ed in hit the switch and it kept running, had to choke it to kill it, so the question doe's this engine start with a complete circuit or does it ground out like a mag?? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:23 AM PST US From: Dickk9@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: on/off switch --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dickk9@aol.com Just the opposite of the Rotax, Cuyuna II needs a ground to run and an open will stop the engine. I would suspect you have a shorted switch or grounded wire. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:33 AM PST US From: "Olenik Aviation" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" How many engines per year do you think a company could sell in the 40 HP class? I don't know of any company, including Rotax that is selling enough of them to justify making them unless they charge more than most are willing to pay. Not even worth messing with. Even the 447 is an endangered species if sales drop any more. Nobody is buying them. 447's are a very rare engine anymore. The hard part is that it costs nearly as much to produce a 40 HP engine as it does a 60 HP engine. So would you pay $7000 for a 40 HP HKS that weighed 70 or 80 pounds? It would weigh less, but the cost to produce it would be about the same. So they either need to loose money or sell it for the same price as the higher HP engine. And what constitutes a market? A bunch of people griped and complained when they stopped making the 277, but when they stopped production, they were only selling 50 engines per year world wide. It took another 3 - 5 years to sell the last 50 engines. No body wanted a legal UL. They would rather be illegal and have more power. That is the way things have been. Now an engine like a Briggs & Stratton is not even touched by human hands when it's manufactured...or so I've heard. I guess the engine is completely assembled by machines and even set in the box by one. Of course they are probably making 1000 times more in volume also.... and they have just a fraction of the legal defense costs. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Tom O, Your right Honda couldn't produce a small engine at a competitive price. You say their is no market for a 40-50 HP engine. I'm not so sure about that. Do you recall Amtech's Buddy Twin - it had a lot of interest at Sun & Fun - however they made some radical changes from what they presented one year to their next appearance two years later and ended up missing the target. If they would have moved forward with what they originally presented, they could have gone head to head with Rotax and captured a good portion of the small engine market. The ThunderChieft Citron conversion had a lot of promise as a small engine for the UL's especially tractor configuration. It was compact, had all the goodies (starter, generator). It's too bad they never finished the development. They were on the right track. One of the sleeper is the Constant Pressure engine - they could have a significant influence if they ever get it out. They were also working on an retro-fit kit for the VW. Could their crank technology be applied to the 1/2-VW to reduce it's balance issue, it could be a significant factor. Of coarse what their end products weighs and cost will be the issue. Last I guess is the Needleye engine. It coming along but still not here and like any other new engine expect there to be teething problems until it is field proven. Right now they have 170 flight hours on one of the development engines. Could put a little competitive pressure on the HKS. It may be a little heavier but then again if you add up the weight with all the hoses, coil cooler, tanks, etc, they may be very close in actual weight. jerb At 09:46 AM 12/29/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" > > >There is no market for it. No one is buy ANY 40 hp engines. At least not >enough to justify making them. If you want 50 HP, well you're getting >pretty close to the nich that HKS is filling. > >If there were a demand for them, they would make them, but there just isn't >enough demend to do it and do it right. > >Tom Olenk >Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. >Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines >Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes >http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com >Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS >Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jerb >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > >I vote for a 4-stroke 40 to 50 HP for UL single place application. >jerb > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:03 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: on/off switch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" it is grounded Ron..The Cuyuna needs a ground to be on...open to shut it off..backwards of what most think.,...but kinda of a saftey thing! DO NOT ARCHIVE Don Gherardini Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:17 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Seems to me that my instruments came with clips that pressed in from behind and held the screws, instead of using nuts. I did find that Ace Hardware & Aircraft Supply carries those little nuts, tho............but they're not black. For most of the switches, I used heavy duty over the counter toggle switches, but for the master I got a 30 amp relay from a Mercedes Benz, and used it to take the load off the switch. Looks like it'll work good. Once you have the base wired in, the relay just plugs into it. Have a problem, plug in the spare...........they're small and very light. On the lighter loads, I used the mini switches from Radio Shack. Make sure you look at the load that your component is going to draw, and check the switch to see that it's rated for that load - and be sure to check the voltages. DC current is harder on switches than AC. On my website, under Building Vamoose/Instrument Panel, the 2 switches for the EGT gauge, and the top 2 in the group of 6 are the mini switches; the others are 20 amp toggles. Be sure to click the link to enlarge the picture. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James and Cathy Tripp" Subject: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" > > Questions for the list: > > 1. Instruments are screwed onto the panel with black oxide brass screws. I found the screws I need but what about the nuts? Does anyone have a part number or source for brass nuts or do you use something else? > > 2. I'm also looking for what type of toggle switch to use for the master switch and power switches to accessories like fuel pump, EIS, mag kill, com, strobes, etc. > > I'm not that smart on electronics (OK, I'm not all that smart period) so any tips would be greatly appreciated. > > James Tripp > FSII, still painting > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:35 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Kolb-List: Alaska trip tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Russ Kinne Kolbers A few random suggestions about the Alaska trip a number of you will be making -- Consider taking TWO mosquito head-nets. You can easily lose one, and in some places it=92s near-impossible to survive without one. Good idea to have a couple space-blankets too. Fishing is great everywhere, and a collapsing spin - rod, or pack-fly-rod doesn=92t take up much room. But be advised you will need an AK license, which for a nonresident will be expensive. A few years ago it was $50 as I recall. Bears. Stay away! -- usually easy to do. Make noise while in the bush, whistle, sing, whatever. They=92ll probably stay away from you. Talk to the locals about where bears are likely to be, and what to do about them. Forget about guns. Handguns will only make them mad, and I doubt any of you have enough large-bore shooting and big-game hunting experience to kill a bear safely. This is no place for an ego trip. The only gun I=92d consider is a small .22 that floats, stores in its own stock and is waterproof. THAT would be good to have, and as survival equipt, no permits are needed. You=92ll find that Alaskans are much more sensible than lower-48-states-ers. Bear spray is good -- IF you think you=92ll encounter a bear. It will squirt MACE-type stuff 25-30 feet, and you don=92t want to get any closer -- or even that close. You can=92t legally fly (commercially) with it or mail it. I think ground UPS is OK, but check. You can buy it at outfitter-stores in AK. Don=92t count on your cell-phone if you go anywhere away from the cities. The satellite-phones will work EVERYwhere, but are expensive -- 2 years ago it was $4 per minute. A hand-held GPS is a very good idea, in a pinch to let people know where to find you. Back it up with a small smoke-flare just in case. Always carry a small signal-mirror -- they can be seen 10-20 miles away. I=92m sure you=92ll have some simple tools like Vise-Grfps -- but also carry a can of =93Fix-A-Flat=94 and perhaps a spare inner-tube. In a pinch you can fill a tire with coiled rope or even sand; but if so, make a most gentle landing. It=92s a great State. Enjoy the trip. Russ Kinne ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:02 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: on/off switch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" ----- Original Message ----- From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Kolb-List: on/off switch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > dumb question, cuyuna II-02, the other day taxi'ed in hit the switch and it kept running, had to choke it to kill it, so the question doe's this engine start with a complete circuit or does it ground out like a mag?? > > > Ron, The ULII 02 is backward on the ignition switch, a ground is hot and open is off. Denny Rowe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:55 AM PST US From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" The Aeroelectric Connection list is really worthwhile. Matronics hosts the list for that too, and the archives have some great discussions. I bought Bob Nuckoll's book and wired my Mk III/912 according to diagram Z-7. Bought switches, grounding block, connectors, tools, relays, overvoltage switch, contactors from B&C. Sure took a lot of the guesswork out of wiring it up, and I feel good knowing how and why it's wired the way it is. http://www.aeroelectric.com/ has links to get the book and to B&C. I think you can download the wiring diagrams free, he has a bunch. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > Seems to me that my instruments came with clips that pressed in from behind > and held the screws, instead of using nuts. I did find that Ace Hardware > & Aircraft Supply carries those little nuts, tho............but they're not > black. For most of the switches, I used heavy duty over the counter > toggle switches, but for the master I got a 30 amp relay from a Mercedes > Benz, and used it to take the load off the switch. Looks like it'll work > good. Once you have the base wired in, the relay just plugs into it. Have > a problem, plug in the spare...........they're small and very light. On the > lighter loads, I used the mini switches from Radio Shack. Make sure you > look at the load that your component is going to draw, and check the switch > to see that it's rated for that load - and be sure to check the voltages. > DC current is harder on switches than AC. On my website, under Building > Vamoose/Instrument Panel, the 2 switches for the EGT gauge, and the top 2 in > the group of 6 are the mini switches; the others are 20 amp toggles. Be > sure to click the link to enlarge the picture. Lar. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > www.gogittum.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James and Cathy Tripp" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" > > > > > Questions for the list: > > > > 1. Instruments are screwed onto the panel with black oxide brass screws. I > found the screws I need but what about the nuts? Does anyone have a part > number or source for brass nuts or do you use something else? > > > > 2. I'm also looking for what type of toggle switch to use for the master > switch and power switches to accessories like fuel pump, EIS, mag kill, com, > strobes, etc. > > > > I'm not that smart on electronics (OK, I'm not all that smart period) so > any tips would be greatly appreciated. > > > > James Tripp > > FSII, still painting > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:01 AM PST US From: William George Subject: Kolb-List: Re: marII twinstar --> Kolb-List message posted by: William George Adriel Heisey has one on his original Twinstar. On Dec 29, 2003, at 9:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > ime: 08:30:35 AM PST US > From: "Paul Petty" > Subject: Kolb-List: marII twinstar > RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.60, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Does anyone have Dennis Souders e-mail address. Or if you read this > post, Dennis, > Could you tell me if a Mark2 twinstar is capable of mounting and > safely flying > a 912UL engine? > > > pp > > Bill George Hawaii Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:21 AM PST US From: Terry Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry I have made an alteration to my two blade wood prop that has produced amazing results, at least as far as I'm concerned. I know that I'm in a minority when it comes to props, being a traditionalist who needs the wood. But for any others of a similar affliction out there I thought I would pass along what I experienced. I was talking to the local RC Model store guy and we got on how many of the more advanced ideas in aircraft are first tried out on models. He told me one of their biggest concerns was noise which can lead to loss of flying fields. Then he told me how the new props had really helped to cut down the noise and at the same time increase performance. My ears perked up big time! He showed me the new wood props made by Top Flight with their Power Point tips. I took one look and thought, wow, maybe I could do that to my 66 inch Tennessee prop. The idea is to reduce the tip vortex's that cause the noise and steal efficiency. I think it's the same idea behind the Prince Prop's except this is a simpler solution. This may not be new, but it is too me!! Anyway, I considered this for some time. Took the measurements off a large Top Flight prop and proceeded to mark off my prop and cut the tips. My friend watched me hesitate several times before actual cutting, realizing I may be ruining a perfectly good prop. Next I spent a week balancing and refinishing the tips and couldn't wait to try it. The weather conspired against me for another week and finally got to try it two days before Christmas. As the engine first fired up I noticed immediately how much quieter it was. After climbing in and taking off I found it was like being in a new airplane. Different sound altogether. Had been warned by the owner of Tennessee Props that the upper rpm might increase, but that didn't happen. Now after putting several hr.'s on it I find I have to readjust my flying for the improved performance, such as cruise and landing rpm's. I think I've gained about 4 mph at cruise with a fuel burn of around 2 gph. I now have to throttle back more on decent for landing. This was done to a Tennessee Prop, 66 x 30 with urethane leading edge. So much gain for so little change to me is amazing! Hope this is of some interest to the list, Terry - FireFly # 95, Rotax 447, 255 hr.'s ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:03 AM PST US From: "Dale Sellers" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" Terry, Tell us what you did to it. Dale Sellers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry" Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor change > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry > > I have made an alteration to my two blade wood prop that has > produced amazing results, at least as far as I'm concerned. I > know that I'm in a minority when it comes to props, being a > traditionalist who needs the wood. But for any others of a > similar affliction out there I thought I would pass along what I > experienced. > > I was talking to the local RC Model store guy and we got on how > many of the more advanced ideas in aircraft are first tried out > on models. He told me one of their biggest concerns was noise > which can lead to loss of flying fields. Then he told me how the > new props had really helped to cut down the noise and at the same > time increase performance. My ears perked up big time! He > showed me the new wood props made by Top Flight with their Power > Point tips. I took one look and thought, wow, maybe I could do > that to my 66 inch Tennessee prop. > > The idea is to reduce the tip vortex's that cause the noise and > steal efficiency. I think it's the same idea behind the Prince > Prop's except this is a simpler solution. This may not be new, > but it is too me!! > > Anyway, I considered this for some time. Took the measurements > off a large Top Flight prop and proceeded to mark off my prop and > cut the tips. My friend watched me hesitate several times before > actual cutting, realizing I may be ruining a perfectly good > prop. Next I spent a week balancing and refinishing the tips and > couldn't wait to try it. The weather conspired against me for > another week and finally got to try it two days before Christmas. > > As the engine first fired up I noticed immediately how much > quieter it was. After climbing in and taking off I found it was > like being in a new airplane. Different sound altogether. Had > been warned by the owner of Tennessee Props that the upper rpm > might increase, but that didn't happen. Now after putting > several hr.'s on it I find I have to readjust my flying for the > improved performance, such as cruise and landing rpm's. I think > I've gained about 4 mph at cruise with a fuel burn of around 2 > gph. I now have to throttle back more on decent for landing. > > This was done to a Tennessee Prop, 66 x 30 with urethane leading > edge. So much gain for so little change to me is amazing! > > Hope this is of some interest to the list, > > Terry - FireFly # 95, Rotax 447, 255 hr.'s > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:59 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Any way to post some pictures to the list? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive At 11:58 AM 12/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry > >I have made an alteration to my two blade wood prop that has >produced amazing results, at least as far as I'm concerned. I >know that I'm in a minority when it comes to props, being a >traditionalist who needs the wood. But for any others of a >similar affliction out there I thought I would pass along what I >experienced. > >I was talking to the local RC Model store guy and we got on how >many of the more advanced ideas in aircraft are first tried out >on models. He told me one of their biggest concerns was noise >which can lead to loss of flying fields. Then he told me how the >new props had really helped to cut down the noise and at the same >time increase performance. My ears perked up big time! He >showed me the new wood props made by Top Flight with their Power >Point tips. I took one look and thought, wow, maybe I could do >that to my 66 inch Tennessee prop. > >The idea is to reduce the tip vortex's that cause the noise and >steal efficiency. I think it's the same idea behind the Prince >Prop's except this is a simpler solution. This may not be new, >but it is too me!! > >Anyway, I considered this for some time. Took the measurements >off a large Top Flight prop and proceeded to mark off my prop and >cut the tips. My friend watched me hesitate several times before >actual cutting, realizing I may be ruining a perfectly good >prop. Next I spent a week balancing and refinishing the tips and >couldn't wait to try it. The weather conspired against me for >another week and finally got to try it two days before Christmas. > >As the engine first fired up I noticed immediately how much >quieter it was. After climbing in and taking off I found it was >like being in a new airplane. Different sound altogether. Had >been warned by the owner of Tennessee Props that the upper rpm >might increase, but that didn't happen. Now after putting >several hr.'s on it I find I have to readjust my flying for the >improved performance, such as cruise and landing rpm's. I think >I've gained about 4 mph at cruise with a fuel burn of around 2 >gph. I now have to throttle back more on decent for landing. > >This was done to a Tennessee Prop, 66 x 30 with urethane leading >edge. So much gain for so little change to me is amazing! > >Hope this is of some interest to the list, > >Terry - FireFly # 95, Rotax 447, 255 hr.'s > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:05 AM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 10:51 PM 12/29/2003, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" > > >Questions for the list: > >1. Instruments are screwed onto the panel with black oxide brass screws. I >found the screws I need but what about the nuts? Does anyone have a part >number or source for brass nuts or do you use something else? A lot of "model shops" carry those. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:46 AM PST US From: Terry Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Richard, Ralph, Ken, Dale and All, I didn't reduce the diameter of the prop, but cut the tips at an angle of 20 deg. from the leading edge towards the trailing edge letting the trailing edge the same diameter as before. This only reduces the leading edge diameter. Also making a radius of one half inch from the leading edge to the angle cut tip. Then the whole tip is shaped into an airfoil, transitioning from the leading edge back. I don't have the ability to post photo's, one, because the pictures are still in the camera and two, I don't have a scanner. I'm using an antique computer as of now! Will try and have my friend post pics in the future. In the mean time, the best way you can see what I did is to go to a RC model shop and look at the Top Flight wood props with the Power Point tips. They also do this with their plastic props although a little different over all. Hope this helps, Terry - FireFly # 95 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:07 AM PST US From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: Kolb-List: Tom Olenik question about Rotax 503 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Tom (Kolbers) I am wanting to move my oil tank on my Rotax 503 DCDI oil pump/injection system. One afternoon while talking design and upgrades, my uncle Craig suggested that I move the oil tank out of the slip stream. The tank is located above and behind the engine, near the prop. I am sure it dirties air right before it enters the prop. Here is my question: Is there a Rotax spec that says it has to be mounted in that location? I want to move it down in front of the engine right above the oil pump system. Is there a height the oil tank has to be above the oil pump? Is it gravity fed? Or, is there a oil pump? Many benefits for me doing this: Cleans up the slip stream, gets oil tank off the vibrating engine, places it in a location for easy oil level verification-I can see it thru my Lexan gap seal, shortens the oil line from tank to pump, helps CG. One con I can think of: Harder to reach for filling. Tell me what you know, or where I can get the info. Much appreciated, Tim Gherkins ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:06 AM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Hi Gang, Just sent a couple of pictures to the photoshare of a Top Flite propeller so that you can see what Terry is describing. Do not archive Later, John Cooley --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Richard, Ralph, Ken, Dale and All, I didn't reduce the diameter of the prop, but cut the tips at an angle of 20 deg. from the leading edge towards the trailing edge letting the trailing edge the same diameter as before. This only reduces the leading edge diameter. Also making a radius of one half inch from the leading edge to the angle cut tip. Then the whole tip is shaped into an airfoil, transitioning from the leading edge back. I don't have the ability to post photo's, one, because the pictures are still in the camera and two, I don't have a scanner. I'm using an antique computer as of now! Will try and have my friend post pics in the future. In the mean time, the best way you can see what I did is to go to a RC model shop and look at the Top Flight wood props with the Power Point tips. They also do this with their plastic props although a little different over all. Hope this helps, Terry - FireFly # 95 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:25 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb At 10:23 AM 12/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" > > >How many engines per year do you think a company could sell in the 40 HP >class? I don't know of any company, including Rotax that is selling enough >of them to justify making them unless they charge more than most are willing >to pay. Not even worth messing with. Even the 447 is an endangered species >if sales drop any more. Tom O., Assuming the Sport category comes about, there may be more pressure exerted upon the owners to comply with Part 103 or convert. Planes keep getting heavier, faster, and using larger engines. >Nobody is buying them. 447's are a very rare engine anymore. The hard part >is that it costs nearly as much to produce a 40 HP engine as it does a 60 HP >engine. So would you pay $7000 for a 40 HP HKS that weighed 70 or 80 >pounds? It would weigh less, but the cost to produce it would be about the >same. So they either need to loose money or sell it for the same price as >the higher HP engine. I disagree, yes there getting $7K because there is no competition. Look at Rotax 900 series, they keep raising the price - if there were more competition the price increases would slow down. A while back Jabiru made a significant price increase keeping their prices up to the level of Rotax. >And what constitutes a market? A bunch of people griped and complained when >they stopped making the 277, but when they stopped production, they were >only selling 50 engines per year world wide. It took another 3 - 5 years to >sell the last 50 engines. No body wanted a legal UL. They would rather be >illegal and have more power. That is the way things have been. I feel the move towards the larger engine was for less vibration, noise, and the opinion you wouldn't need to run the engine as hard thinking it would improve it's reliability and life. The issue of the 447 and the 503 comes down to dual ignition and oil injection and the 503 being the smallest engine on which there offered. Some cases the extra power is desired. When Sport Pilot is adopted (if it is) there may be more pressure on the aircraft owners to either convert to Sport Category or down grade to a smaller lighter weight engine to comply with Part 103. >Now an engine like a Briggs & Stratton is not even touched by human hands >when it's manufactured...or so I've heard. I guess the engine is completely >assembled by machines and even set in the box by one. Of course they are >probably making 1000 times more in volume also.... and they have just a >fraction of the legal defense costs. Take a large company like Honda for example, they have a lot of expensive overhead to cover. That gets added into the product cost as an internal corporate tax. True they obtain some economy based upon production volume but they also have a much higher cost and slower reaction time to incorporate even a minor change or adjust to short term market demands. On the other hand a small company is often constrained by capital funding issues influencing their economy of scale by being limited to smaller production runs. The size of the market, their sales organization, resale channels, and demand for their product also influences this. All I can say is I did observe a significant amount of interest in the Amtech original displayed engine and a major by many when they showed up with something considerably different. jerb do not archive >Tom Olenik >Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. >Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines >Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes >http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com >Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS >Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jerb >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > >Tom O, >Your right Honda couldn't produce a small engine at a competitive price. > >You say their is no market for a 40-50 HP engine. I'm not so sure about >that. Do you recall Amtech's Buddy Twin - it had a lot of interest at Sun >& Fun - however they made some radical changes from what they presented one >year to their next appearance two years later and ended up missing the >target. If they would have moved forward with what they originally >presented, they could have gone head to head with Rotax and captured a good >portion of the small engine market. > >The ThunderChieft Citron conversion had a lot of promise as a small engine >for the UL's especially tractor configuration. It was compact, had all the >goodies (starter, generator). It's too bad they never finished the >development. They were on the right track. > >One of the sleeper is the Constant Pressure engine - they could have a >significant influence if they ever get it out. They were also working on >an retro-fit kit for the VW. Could their crank technology be applied to >the 1/2-VW to reduce it's balance issue, it could be a significant >factor. Of coarse what their end products weighs and cost will be the >issue. > >Last I guess is the Needleye engine. It coming along but still not here >and like any other new engine expect there to be teething problems until it >is field proven. Right now they have 170 flight hours on one of the >development engines. Could put a little competitive pressure on the >HKS. It may be a little heavier but then again if you add up the weight >with all the hoses, coil cooler, tanks, etc, they may be very close in >actual weight. >jerb > > >At 09:46 AM 12/29/03 -0500, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" > > > > > >There is no market for it. No one is buy ANY 40 hp engines. At least not > >enough to justify making them. If you want 50 HP, well you're getting > >pretty close to the nich that HKS is filling. > > > >If there were a demand for them, they would make them, but there just isn't > >enough demend to do it and do it right. > > > >Tom Olenk > >Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. > >Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines > >Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes > >http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com > >Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS > >Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jerb > >To: kolb-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: Honda Aircraft Engine > > > > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > > > >I vote for a 4-stroke 40 to 50 HP for UL single place application. > >jerb > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:32 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Re: relocating oil tank --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Yes, it is gravity fed, the oil pump (if you can call it that) will not suck oil uphill at all, and the tank outlet has to be above the oil pump in all configurations. I agree that it is good to reduce the drag, and I put the tank on mine within a streamline ahead of the engine to help improve the air flow around the engine. Pictures on this site: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg2.htm I have not found it to be difficult to fill, but the MKIII is sturdy enough to stand on the boom tube to reach the engine, that may not be true of the smaller Kolbs, (???) and I can't remember which one you have. It seems that since improving the airflow around the engine on the MKIII, it takes less throttle to fly at cruise speeds, but since I have also changed so many other things, it is hard to say which change accomplished which improvement. Anyway, it makes sense to streamline as much as you can, provided things stay simple. I say go for it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 12:06 PM 12/30/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 > >Tom (Kolbers) > >I am wanting to move my oil tank on my Rotax 503 DCDI oil pump/injection >system. One afternoon while talking design and upgrades, my uncle Craig >suggested that I move the oil tank out of the slip stream. The tank is >located above and behind the engine, near the prop. I am sure it dirties >air right before it enters the prop. > >Here is my question: Is there a Rotax spec that says it has to be mounted >in that location? I want to move it down in front of the engine right >above the oil pump system. Is there a height the oil tank has to be above >the oil pump? Is it gravity fed? Or, is there a oil pump? > >Many benefits for me doing this: Cleans up the slip stream, gets oil tank >off the vibrating engine, places it in a location for easy oil level >verification-I can see it thru my Lexan gap seal, shortens the oil line >from tank to pump, helps CG. > >One con I can think of: Harder to reach for filling. > > >Tell me what you know, or where I can get the info. > >Much appreciated, > >Tim Gherkins > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:56 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: relocating oil tank --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Richard/Gang: Happy New Year everybody. > I have not found it to be difficult to fill, but the MKIII is sturdy enough > to stand on the boom tube to reach the engine, that may not be true of the > smaller Kolbs, (???) and I can't remember which one you have. I have always stood on the tailboom of my old Firestar and Mark III, plus the factory Fire Fly, Fire Star, Sling Shot, and Kolbra. Put a piece of no skid on the tailboom and your shoes won't mar the paint and you won't slip and bust your ass. Back in the Firestar days, I did not have any non skid tape, so I took off my shoes every time I hoped up there to do stuff to the top of the engine. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:10 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: drill bits RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK 2.60, RCVD_IN_SORBS 0.10) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Can anyone suggest a good drill bit? I'm using Dewalt Industrial cobalt bits and going through them like crazy! pp ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:24 PM PST US From: Terry Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry John Cooley wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" > > Hi Gang, > Just sent a couple of pictures to the photoshare of a Top Flite > propeller so that you can see what Terry is describing. > > Do not archive > > Later, > John Cooley > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry > > Richard, Ralph, Ken, Dale and All, > > I didn't reduce the diameter of the prop, but cut the tips at an angle > of 20 deg. from the leading edge towards the trailing edge letting the > trailing edge the same diameter as before. This only reduces the > leading edge diameter. Also making a radius of one half inch from the > leading edge to the angle cut tip. Then the whole tip is shaped into an > airfoil, transitioning from the leading edge back. > > I don't have the ability to post photo's, one, because the pictures are > still in the camera and two, I don't have a scanner. I'm using an > antique computer as of now! Will try and have my friend post pics in > the future. > > In the mean time, the best way you can see what I did is to go to a RC > model shop and look at the Top Flight wood props with the Power Point > tips. They also do this with their plastic props although a little > different over all. > > Hope this helps, > > Terry - FireFly # 95 > Thanks John, Terry - FireFly #95 Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:29 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: drill bits --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Yup..............yer gonna use lots of 'um. Go to my website, Building Vamoose/Bending Metal, for my suggestions on which bit to use for what, and how to use them. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: drill bits > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Can anyone suggest a good drill bit? I'm using Dewalt Industrial cobalt bits and going through them like crazy! > > pp > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:43 PM PST US From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: drill bits (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Paul, guys; Heat caused by speed is what kills drill bits. As long as a bit is cutting, most of the heat is transferred into the chips, but when it quits cutting, either from lack of enough correct feed pressure or from a heat (or hardened material)destroyed cutting edge, you are loosing the battle. For mild steel we use the standard high speed bits, the super bits are very brittle and chip too easy. If you turn the bit slow enough you can drill almost any hard material with a standard bit. We have a hand powered drill unit here that we use for difficult tasks and we can drill leaf spring, high strength bolts, etc fairly easily, turning the bit with a hand crank and applying feed pressure by a screw fed spindle. Our rule here is turn the bit slow enough that you can see the chips coming off both cutting edges and just enough steady pressure to keep that happening. We drill a lot of big holes in Unimog hitches etc. up to 2" holes in 2" thick steel. We regrind by hand the cutting edge on all our bits at the first sign of improper cutting, this saves the bits and keep cutting speeds at their best. It's a bit of an art, but just remember to grind an angle that will allow the leading edge to cut without the heel contacting the surface first. The two edges must be very close to the same length (ground the same amount) so that each edge is cutting, or the hole will be oversized, because the load on one edge will cause it to "walk" outside of the normal radius. In aluminum you need to grind for less of a cutting angle, because the bit wants to gouge and take to much of a cut. Our favorite cutting lube is a Conklin product, called Rust Bomb, which is a super penetrating oil. Its helps with the drilling of most aluminum alloys Industrial production drilling is all fluid cooled today, that's how they can get away with high speeds. No real science here, an someone may have a magic cure, this is just a lifetime of machine shop "broken,damaged bit" experience. Kelvin K NE still Kolb dreaming Happy New Year do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: drill bits > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Can anyone suggest a good drill bit? I'm using Dewalt Industrial cobalt bits and going through them like crazy! > > pp > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:23 PM PST US From: "boyd young" "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" I've asked this before, and now hafta do *something.* I'm using the spam blocker on Outlook Express, under "message," "create rule for message," and all it seems to do is intensify the spam. Nearly 2,000 blocked addresses now, and still getting over 200 spams a day, lar larry create a new folder under your inbox..... call it "kolb" for example.... create a rule that says where the from line contains people.... or subject line contains words.... and under actions move it to the Kolb folder.... with a list of people you want to recieve mail from and a list of keywords your kolb foldler should readable and all left in the inbox should be junk. you could look at it then do a "select all" "delete" for those who might coment from your web page you might say "put kolb in the subject line" or if you make a link to your mail from your web page it can be programed to automaticly put "kolb" in the subject line. the code i used for that is You can email comments about my pages to: Boyd keep "kolb" in the subject line. on the page it looks like. You can email comments about my pages to: Boyd keep "kolb" in the subject line. when you click on Boyd the address and subject line is allready filled in. if i were getting 200 a day i would change my address and let everyone you know know the new address.... it seems it takes spamers 6 months or so to catch on to a new address. do not archive. boyd ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:17 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: drill bits --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb You shouldn't need Cobalt drills bits unless your drilling chrome moly or steel and even then you don't need them for that. Key to drilling steel is slow speed, lots of pressure and some oil. You don't have to spin a drill bit very fast on steel and it heats up to the point of changing it hardness and dulls the bit. You can also work hard the location in the material your attempting to drill. For aluminum I use standard drills rated for steel, not just wood. The Black & Decker Bullet Pilot Point bits can be useful at times but I have found that they do not last long drilling aluminum. I used to buy my drill bits from Enco by the dozen but the last batch of China drills were too hard, chipped or broke easy. Prior purchases worked very well. When drilling aluminum the bit collects a small amount of aluminum on the tip just behind where the cutting edge starts. You need to clean this off periodically. Use some bee wax or Boeing Lube also helps reduce the build up. For larger sizes 3/16", 1/4" you can sometimes find resharpened high quality US made metal drill bits - got some 1/4" from a local surplus outlet and they just eat there way through steel. I haven't been impressed with those expensive DeWalt drill bits. jerb At 04:10 PM 12/30/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > >Kolbers, >Can anyone suggest a good drill bit? I'm using Dewalt Industrial cobalt >bits and going through them like crazy! > >pp > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Harris" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" LAR, Just another reason you you need to get out of CAL. Remember what I said about this place when you were here? 2800 feet, big hanger, nobody but me and my MK3, but you got to help mow.. c-ya Richard Harris MK3 N912RH Lewisville, Arkansas DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Spam > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > I've asked this before, and now hafta do *something.* I'm using the spam blocker on Outlook Express, under "message," "create rule for message," and all it seems to do is intensify the spam. Nearly 2,000 blocked addresses now, and still getting over 200 spams a day, and nearly that many kicked directly into the "deleted" file. A huge number from that "paris hilton" foolishness. This is insane, and companies are defending their "right" to do this to us, while our joyful politicians dither. I'd like to defend my right to strangle the bastards. Some time ago, Don G. and a couple of others recommended the "Postini" spam blocker, but looking at their website makes me think they're aimed at commercial users. Is this true, or do they work with individuals ?? I thought about the Earthlink version, but I understand that you have to enter the addresses you'll accept mail from. This is awkward for me, cause I get many emails from website readers, off-line Kolb! > Listers, etc. I've gotta do something, sports fans..................this is driving me loco. Hair Pullin' Lar. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > www.gogittum.com > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:29 PM PST US From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor change --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Terry wrote: > This was done to a Tennessee Prop, 66 x 30 with urethane leading > edge. So much gain for so little change to me is amazing! > > Hope this is of some interest to the list, Ok let's see it! Where is the pictures? -- Earl Z. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:40 PM PST US From: Timandjan@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: drill bits --> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com In a message dated 12/30/03 5:12:53 PM, ppetty@c-gate.net writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Can anyone suggest a good drill bit? I'm using Dewalt Industrial cobalt bits > and going through them like crazy! > > pp > > But some good quality ones on ebay, I buy the 1/8 etc. sizes by the dozen. They are the same high quality ones sold in the high end supply stores. I have had real great luck there and the shipping is very reasonable. Tim DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:01 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" You better be careful..............if'n I took you up on it, you'd be stuck. :-) ............and don't think it ain't a temptation............you've got a verrry nice place there. Tempted Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Harris" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" > > LAR, Just another reason you you need to get out of CAL. Remember what I > said about this place when you were here? 2800 feet, big hanger, nobody but > me and my MK3, but you got to help mow.. > > c-ya > > Richard Harris > MK3 N912RH > Lewisville, Arkansas ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:49 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Wait a second, here....................mow ?? MOW ?? I don't even like to mow my back yard. Half a mile of airstrip....................uh..................no deal.................sorry ! ! ! Deadbeat Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > You better be careful..............if'n I took you up on it, you'd be stuck. > :-) ............and don't think it ain't a temptation............you've got > a verrry nice place there. Tempted Lar. Do > not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Harris" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spam > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" > > > > > LAR, Just another reason you you need to get out of CAL. Remember what I > > said about this place when you were here? 2800 feet, big hanger, nobody > but > > me and my MK3, but you got to help mow.. > > > > c-ya > > > > Richard Harris > > MK3 N912RH > > Lewisville, Arkansas > >