Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - Re: 447 Intake Silencer (Dave Rains)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Roster for MV - 2004 (Dave Rains)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Intake silencer (jerb)
4. 07:37 AM - Intake silencer (Icrashrc@aol.com)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches (James and Cathy Tripp)
6. 09:35 AM - Vx and Vy for a Kolb MK III Classic? (John Raeburn)
7. 10:17 AM - Re: Vx and Vy for a Kolb MK III Classic? (Richard Pike)
8. 10:18 AM - Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes (Derek Lawrence)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes (Richard Pike)
10. 12:01 PM - Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes (CRAIG M NELSON)
11. 12:01 PM - Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes (Jim Ballenger)
12. 12:46 PM - 2 Strokes don't have to be Dirty. (Lawrence M. Rice)
13. 12:53 PM - [ John Cooley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
14. 03:56 PM - Intake silencers (Terry)
15. 05:10 PM - good idea but .... (artdog1512)
16. 08:38 PM - Re: noise redux (Duncan McBride)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 447 Intake Silencer |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
I have the Rotax intake silencer on my blue head 582. I find it removes
the most annoying high pitch noise from the carbs, which improves
communications and makes the plane more comfortable on long trips. Yes,
you may loose a couple of horses, (doubt you will be able to tell) but fuel
flow will decrees commensurately. Not a bad trade off for me. Hope this
helps.
Dave Rains
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack & Louise Hart [SMTP:jbhart@ldd.net]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Intake Silencer
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 10:38 PM 1/1/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
>
>Thom, jerb,
>
>Now, a question for the list. Have any of you had any experience
>with an intake silencer for the carb. I'm thinking that may be
>my next step. Since making the alterations to the prop tips,
>most of what I'm hearing is coming out of the carb. When I turn
>my head to the right towards the carb, I get more noise than
>when I turn my head to the left towards the muffler. Just
>thinking of reducing another source of noise and increasing my
>comfort zone! Guy's at the airport I fly into say I am already
>much quieter then other 2 stroke UL's.
>
Terry,
I had an intake and exhaust silencers on the Rotax 447 for a short time.
From my flight log:
"March 26, 2000. Finished mounting the air intake silencer. Too windy to
move the plane outside. I can not fold the right wing with the silencer
on. I will have to rework the mounting so that it attaches with pins so
that the silencer can be easily removed for wing folding.
March 29, 2000 Flight 41, 11 minutes, 19:18 tt, 50 degrees F. The intake
silencer is very effective. Knocks out the high end frequencies. Made a
good cross wind landing.
March 30, 2000 Flight 42, 10 minutes, 19:28 tt. Installed exhaust
silencer, and flew to check it out. No noticeable difference in noise
level. I am going to remove it. It is not worth the weight penalty. Need
to rework the fuel pump placement and to put on some metal gas lines for
greater reliability. Three bounce landing in a 8mph cross wind from the
left. I let my eyes drift too close. I need to practice more cross wind
landings with the wind from the left."
This was early in the life of the FireFly, and I had trouble keeping the
intake silencer mounts from breaking, and so I removed it. I sold both
silencers to someone on the Kolb list.
For pilot comfort an ANR head set is a big help and it weighs much less and
costs about the same. I did not notice a loss of power while the intake
silencer was mounted.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Roster for MV - 2004 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
I will be attending MV fly-in.
Dave Rains
Haven't decided which plane to fly yet
-----Original Message-----
From: BICUM@aol.com [SMTP:BICUM@aol.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: Roster for MV - 2004
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BICUM@aol.com
Happy New Year,
I saw were John H posted a roster for the Alaska trip. Do we have a list
like that for the MV trip? I have a buddy with a Kitfox - Series 5 that would
like to come along. He help me with my Mark III. He was wondering who was
going and if wives were welcome.
Here is a short list that I pulled off a search of archives:
Tom Kuffel & wife
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Flying Homebuilt Prospector N5XK
Erich Weaver & wife and kid
MarkIII
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ FF#022 447, 66" IVO 2 blade, BRS-750, 155hrs
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Larry Cottrell, Oregon
Gary Haley, Houston, TX
1997 Mark III/912, N100GH
320 Hours
Ted & Bev Cowan
Uncle Craig Nelson
MKIIIex912uls
Arizoma
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3 in
New Mexico
John Bickham
Mark III - 912
St. Francisville, LA
Bruce Williams and wife
Kitfox - Series 5
Woodville, MS
DO NOT ARCHIVE - not technical enough
Thanks & be careful,
John Bickham
St. Francisville, LA
Kolb Mark III Classic - 912
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Intake silencer |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Terry,
If you want a factory made one you might want to get it ordered. If I
recall right I read something somewhere Rotax was discontinuing them. They
may be hard to get if not already.
jerb
At 11:20 AM 1/2/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
>
>Richard,
>
>Would appreciate knowing what you have in mind for constructing
>your own silencer. Thanks for you input on the loss of power due
>to the silencer. I only read where if would require change of
>main jet.
>
>Terry - FireFly #95
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Icrashrc@aol.com
I would think the leaner jetting was due to having the silencer acting as an
airbox. A nice big airbox before the carb should smooth out the pulses of air
moving past the jets making a more even draw of fuel. The lack of an airbox
makes the fuel start and stop [or slow down, then speed up] as it is drawn thry
the jet and into the airsteam so it requires a larger jet to have the same
fuel flow.
Please note that i could be all wet hear as i've never seen what Rotax sells
as a 'intake silencer'.
Time: 12:00:38 PM PST US
From: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Intake silencer
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
To get an idea of how the Rotax intake silencer affects airflow, look at
the carburetor jetting lists that Rotax uses depending on whether or not
you have a silencer. As the engines get bigger, there are more extensive
jetting changes, always going to smaller jets. If the jet is getting
smaller, then the airflow must be less.
For the 277, you only change the main jet, from 148 to 140,
Apparently it doesn't pull enough air at cruise to change things.
Same with the 447, from a 165 to a 155, apparently the only thing affected
is full throttle.
On the newer 503, you change the main jet from 185 to 165,
and the needle jet from 2.72 to 2.70, so now the reduced airflow
has come to include mid range throttle settings.
On the 582, main jet goes from 165 to 145,
Needle jet goes from 2.72 to 2.68,
Jet needle goes from 11G2 to 15K2.
Apparently the silencer affects airflow extensively.
Last month I spent several hours browsing the internet and looking up auto
air intake systems, and their associated silencers. I guess all of us
remember cars from the 60's and 70's that would have an oval snorkel tube
coming out of the air cleaner housing. If you cut off the snorkel or
modified the housing for more airflow, when you floored it, you could hear
"carb whoop" for blocks. Years ago I cut off the snorkel & the whole side
of the airbox of my Suzuki X-6 Scrambler, (If you ain't old, you won't
remember Suzuki's first porky effort at a "Dirt Bike") in an attempt to get
more power. Had to rejet it one bigger on the main jets, and boy did that
make it noisy! Just like our Rotax engines. Full throttle carb whoop was
incredible.
I don't know for sure, but I think it would be possible to build a
lightweight box to enclose the stock Rotax air filter, and then use a large
diameter flex tube coming out of the box, curved, with it's opening into an
area of non accelerated airflow. (You don't want ram air, neither do you
want negative pressures. Ram air screws up the suction of fuel from the
float bowl, and the metering of the carb jets, and negative pressure
reduces airflow & power)
If you look at most motorcycle or snowmobile air filter boxes, most use a
curved intake runner emptying the outside air into the filter's airbox. I
am going to try something similar, but using a large diameter flexible
runner tube capable of a volume greater than the combined area of both carb
throats. Will it work? Will it accomplish anything? Who knows? But I think
it's worth trying.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Listers,
Thanks for the responses about my switches. I got a lot of good ideas but
the web site Duncan recommended was extremely helpful. I know my FS will be
a better aircraft because of your inputs. Thanks again.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Tripp
FS II, 75% done
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brass Nuts and Toggle Switches
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride"
<duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
>
> The Aeroelectric Connection list is really worthwhile. Matronics hosts
the
> list for that too, and the archives have some great discussions. I bought
> Bob Nuckoll's book and wired my Mk III/912 according to diagram Z-7.
Bought
> switches, grounding block, connectors, tools, relays, overvoltage switch,
> contactors from B&C. Sure took a lot of the guesswork out of wiring it
up,
> and I feel good knowing how and why it's wired the way it is.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/ has links to get the book and to B&C. I
think
> you can download the wiring diagrams free, he has a bunch.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Vx and Vy for a Kolb MK III Classic? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Raeburn <raeburn@snowhill.com>
Hi,
does anyone know the Vx and Vy speeds for a Kolb Mk III Classic with a
Rotax 582 ?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vx and Vy for a Kolb MK III Classic? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I get my best rate at about 42, and best angle at around 36, but that is with
vortex generators. Add 4 mph for stock, w/o v/g's. I would suggest starting
a bit faster than that and come up with your own numbers.
Different MKIII's fly differently, & airspeed indicators vary. Assume nothing.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
582, B box @ 2.58:1, 68" 2 blade Ivo w/turbulators
At 11:34 AM 1/3/04 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Raeburn <raeburn@snowhill.com>
>
>Hi,
> does anyone know the Vx and Vy speeds for a Kolb Mk III Classic with a
>Rotax 582 ?
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes |
Authenticated-Sender:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Derek Lawrence" <Derek@prestwoodpetcrematorium.co.uk>
Kit arrived for Christmas. Happy xmas from me to me. First job is to clear out
the workshop.
I am at the staring at it stage. First thing I noticed was that there are more
tubes on the left hand side of the cage than the right. There is an extra diagonal
tube (0.445 in. dia coated)running from the tube behind the left hand door
at shoulder height to the left hand axle tube and an extra tube (0.385in dia
coated) running under the left hand tank support at a slight angle to it joining
to the axle tube.
Question :- is this standard and if so why the extra tubes on one side only?
Derek Lawrence
Stourbridge England
Kolb Mk 111 Xtra
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Yes it is standard.
Why just on one side only? Guess follows: there was some flex problem in
the cage that needed removing, and once you got one side to quit moving
around, that automatically took care of the other side. (???)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 06:17 PM 1/3/04 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Derek Lawrence"
><Derek@prestwoodpetcrematorium.co.uk>
>
>Kit arrived for Christmas. Happy xmas from me to me. First job is to clear
>out the workshop.
>I am at the staring at it stage. First thing I noticed was that there are
>more tubes on the left hand side of the cage than the right. There is an
>extra diagonal tube (0.445 in. dia coated)running from the tube behind the
>left hand door at shoulder height to the left hand axle tube and an extra
>tube (0.385in dia coated) running under the left hand tank support at a
>slight angle to it joining to the axle tube.
>Question :- is this standard and if so why the extra tubes on one side only?
>
>
>Derek Lawrence
>Stourbridge England
>Kolb Mk 111 Xtra
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Derek:
When I visited the new kolb aircraft a few years ago to see the facility and an
assembled extra I saw my actual cage before it was crated for shipping and noticed
the same thing. The extra tubes on the left side is all that is needed
for diagonal bracing and a brace could be used on the right side, however, it
just as strong without the right side tubes and the extra tubes would just be
extra weight. Have fun building.
Uncle Craig,
Mark III Xtra, 912 ULS, Warp prop,
AZ
PS- The WWW.milows.com should be up soon, as we are updating the site right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Lawrence
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Derek Lawrence" <Derek@prestwoodpetcrematorium.co.uk>
Kit arrived for Christmas. Happy xmas from me to me. First job is to clear out
the workshop.
I am at the staring at it stage. First thing I noticed was that there are more
tubes on the left hand side of the cage than the right. There is an extra diagonal
tube (0.445 in. dia coated)running from the tube behind the left hand door
at shoulder height to the left hand axle tube and an extra tube (0.385in dia
coated) running under the left hand tank support at a slight angle to it joining
to the axle tube.
Question :- is this standard and if so why the extra tubes on one side only?
Derek Lawrence
Stourbridge England
Kolb Mk 111 Xtra
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Derek
My MKIIIX is the same way. I asked Ray Brown at the factory why only one
side. He said that only one side with braces was required to maintain the
strength and rigidity of the cage per design.
Jim Ballenger
Flying a FS KXP 447
Building a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Lawrence" <Derek@prestwoodpetcrematorium.co.uk>
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk111 Xtra cage tubes
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Derek Lawrence"
<Derek@prestwoodpetcrematorium.co.uk>
>
> Kit arrived for Christmas. Happy xmas from me to me. First job is to clear
out the workshop.
> I am at the staring at it stage. First thing I noticed was that there are
more tubes on the left hand side of the cage than the right. There is an
extra diagonal tube (0.445 in. dia coated)running from the tube behind the
left hand door at shoulder height to the left hand axle tube and an extra
tube (0.385in dia coated) running under the left hand tank support at a
slight angle to it joining to the axle tube.
> Question :- is this standard and if so why the extra tubes on one side
only?
>
>
> Derek Lawrence
> Stourbridge England
> Kolb Mk 111 Xtra
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 2 Strokes don't have to be Dirty. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice" <tailwind5@juno.com>
Folks,
Check this out:
http://www.orbeng.com/orbital/home/home.htm
http://www.orbeng.com/orbital/customersProducts/custApps.htm
http://www.orbeng.com/orbital/customersProducts/marine/bombardier.htm
http://www.orbeng.com/orbital/orbitalTechnology/combustProcess.htm
Makes 2 strokes 70% cleaner & cuts fuel use 30%, while maintaining great
power:weight ratios. It should also eliminate seizures due to mixture
being off.
Larry the MicroMong guy
Message 13
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| Subject: | [ John Cooley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: John Cooley <johnc@datasync.com>
Subject: Propeller tip
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/johnc@datasync.com.01.03.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Intake silencers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Thanks to all that responded to my question about intake silencers. I
appreciate all of the input. Now I have to make up my mind as to
whether I'm going to purchase the Rotax model or mess around with making
my own. I like to mess as you can tell from my experiment with the prop
tips.
This list is a real gold mine of information!
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 15
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| Subject: | good idea but .... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
Time: 09:03:17 PM PST US
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Stihl 4-Mix Engine
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Hello Kolbers !
Ever heard of this Stihl 4-Mix Engine
<http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2003/article/0,18881,537079,00.html>
...
Could be an interesting alternative to the vanishing 2
strokes ...
... from long time lurker ...
Nol in Montreal
Twinstar MKII & 503 >>>>
this reminds me of that Australian engine
(Orbital).. yeah that looks good but - in my
uneducated opinion, which i greatly respect, i doubt
if this technology will "bear fruit" in the
marketplace. from this point in time onward i think
anything 2 stroke is a waste of time to develop. as we
all know 2 strokes simply cannot meet future EPA
standards without costly technology being applied. if
your an engine producer, why waste your time? ya know,
its like developing a better VHS player when everyone
is going DVD..
look at all the small engine producers - briggs,
honda, kohler, rotax, yamaha, etc.,etc.,etc... they're
all developing new "4 strokes" NOT 2 strokes. that
speaks for itself .... tim
do not archive
__________________________________
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
I was searching for some more info on p-tips, q-tips and other noise
reduction and ran across this. I'm really considering modifying the tips of
my 70" IVO in hopes of quieting the thing a little, but I'm not quite ready
to put them to the bandsaw. This article speaks to intake noise,
particularly on two-strokes, but nothing specific.
http://www.pfa.org.uk/pdf_docs/engineering/articles/silencing_articles/light_aircraft_noise_reduction.pdf
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