Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:41 AM - Re: The effect of speed reduction on power (GeoR38@aol.com)
2. 02:58 AM - Re: Lowering FireFly Propeller Thrust Line (GeoR38@aol.com)
3. 03:04 AM - Re: The effect of speed reduction on power (GeoR38@aol.com)
4. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: NE gathering (Airgriff2@aol.com)
5. 05:49 AM - Re: bmw, what's on top? (James, Ken)
6. 05:49 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (ronnie wehba)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: NE gathering (Linda Rowe)
8. 06:38 AM - Re: Flight Farm 1989 (John Hauck)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: NE gathering (John Hauck)
10. 08:41 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (John Williamson)
11. 08:54 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (Dale Sellers)
12. 09:38 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (johnjung@compusenior.com)
13. 09:54 AM - video (Paul Petty)
14. 10:14 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (Don Gherardini)
15. 10:35 AM - Drag Reduction - Tail Boom (vincenicely)
16. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: NE gathering (Eugene Zimmerman)
17. 10:51 AM - Re: FireStar II questions (Don Gherardini)
18. 11:08 AM - Rotax 912 School (John Hauck)
19. 11:21 AM - Re: Drag Reduction - Tail Boom (John Hauck)
20. 11:44 AM - Re: Drag Reduction - Tail Boom (James, Ken)
21. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: NE gathering (James, Ken)
22. 01:51 PM - Quote of the day.. (Richard Pike)
23. 02:08 PM - Coordinates for Homer's strip (Richard Pike)
24. 03:17 PM - Re: Coordinates for Homer's strip (John Hauck)
25. 03:17 PM - Super Kolbra Update (John Williamson)
26. 04:06 PM - Re: Super Kolbra Update (Paul Petty)
27. 04:06 PM - Re: Super Kolbra Update (John Hauck)
28. 04:14 PM - Super Kolbra (Paul Petty)
29. 04:16 PM - correction (Paul Petty)
30. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: NE gathering (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
31. 04:34 PM - firestar update on the milows web P (CRAIG M NELSON)
32. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: NE gathering (ronnie wehba)
33. 04:47 PM - Re: Super Kolbra Update (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
34. 05:12 PM - Re: NE Kolb Homecoming (Scott Trask)
35. 05:25 PM - Re: Coordinates for Homer's strip (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
36. 05:36 PM - Fly-in (Terry)
37. 05:38 PM - Re: Oshkosh (CRAIG M NELSON)
38. 05:38 PM - Re: Lowering FireFly Propeller Thrust Line (Terry)
39. 05:40 PM - N E Gathering (Russell Phillips)
40. 05:50 PM - Re: Super Kolbra Update (John Williamson)
41. 08:23 PM - Re: video (James and Cathy Tripp)
42. 10:26 PM - NE Kolb gathering (Denny Rowe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: The effect of speed reduction on power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/04 6:12:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@ldd.net
writes:
>
> There is a good explanation of horsepower and torque at:
>
>
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
>
> Jack &Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
Jack, that IS a good dissertation on Hp and Torque and I thought I found only
one mistake ....but it wasn't ...I read it wrong......:-). But I did read the
whole thing, and as I read it, primarily about cars, about Corvettes as a
matter of fact, there was a glaring difference in the analogy between cars and
planes. And that is Propeller efficiency or efficacy or whatever it is.
Both of these e words would be dimensionless ratios or comparisons describing
the relationship of the propeller to the effectiveness of interaction to the
air. That effectiveness or what ever it is called would obviously be
completely diffferent from 0 rpm to 7000 rpm. A car's wheels are ALWAYS on the
ground
offering a resistance. Not so in an airplane. And one maxim not mentioned is
that there is NO work or hp or energy dissipated if there is NO resistance to
work, even though you have plenty of rpm.
George Randolph
firestar driver from the Villages
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lowering FireFly Propeller Thrust Line |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/04 11:54:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@ldd.net
writes:
> The calculations and assumptions can be seen at:
>
> http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly101.html
>
> Waiting for a 40+ degree, no rain or fog day with the wind below 20 mph.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
Jack, I tried to follow your logic, but got lost at the beginning when you
presented your setup formula of balance which I understood to a point. but when
you said to substitute for T, I could never duplicate what you got from there
on. I "eliminated T" by replacing it with L-W and got a different formula than
you. And I know it is different because when making an identity out of your
formula and mine, i don't get 0=0 but F=D and I know that isn't right.
Just tryin to help.
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: The effect of speed reduction on power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/04 6:19:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hillstw@jhill.biz writes:
> Another way to think of it is this: your tractor may be able to pull a
> one
> bottom plow at, say, 5 miles per hour, but may only be able to pull a two
> bottom plow at 2.5 miles per hour.
>
> Regards.
> Jimmy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
> To: "Kolb List" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: The effect of speed reduction on power
>
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >I have a question for you thinkers. I am too old to concentrate this
> hard. It makes my brain hurt, even though I am a retired math teacher,
> >it's been a long time since my Physics classes.
> >
> >It seems that I remember something about power increase being directly
> proportional to speed decrease, not taking into consideration inefficencies
> of things like bearing friction, belt slippage or chain/gear friction.
> >That said, I know that if you reduce the speed of an engine at a given RPM
> through the use of some sort of a reduction drive, the power delivered to
> the out put is increased.
> >
> >That's why my 1957 Ford tractor with a 34 hp engine, has more than enough
> power to pull two row implements.
> >BUT, if the decrease in speed is directionly portional to the power gain,
> that would mean that my 35 hp Cuyuna on my Ultra Star with a 2.56:1
> reduction drive, would be delivering 2.56 X 35 hp or it would be delivering
> 89.6 hp to the output shaft and I don't think it's doing that.
> >
> >What's wrong with this picture?
> >
> >Dale Sellers
> >Georgia Ultra Star
>
no truer words!! You double the resistance so you double the time to do the
same work, or expend the same ENERGY which is the SAME as work. That's why ol
Wattman enters the picture because of HEAT which is the SAME as energy and
Work.
george
Do not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
> >> Thom, others,
>> Lets keep brainstorming this NE get together.
>> Why let all the other guys have all the fun, after all we North
>> Easters only
>> get a few months out of the year to enjoy our birds.
>> Denny
>>
>
Denny, Thom and other pilots in the northeast,
I'm all for a get together of some kind. Maybe we can set up a
Homer Farm fly-in for next summer when most of the list hasn't commited to other
flights already. For this summer, if July is busy for some as it has been
stated, possibly June would be a good time? If there is interest in a gathering
at Cooperstown, NY. let me know and I'll contact the owner.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
Message 5
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| Subject: | bmw, what's on top? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Jim
I'm interested in alternate engines and would like to discuss what mods you
have made and hear more about your engine as you go. I'm not a Rotax purest
and I like the BMW rep in a good solid four cycle engine. This can be done
off list/line also.
Ken
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
required 5, BAYES_00)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Help, I lost a sheet of paper that had all the operating RPM's for my
ultarstar ,idle,cruise ect, fuel burn ?, need to make a placard , i got
that dreaded CRS! thanks ron in 21* west texas,, that's cold to us!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireStar II questions
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Thx Tom...and all you Firestar owners for the dope!...
>
> however...The general conclusion is a FireStar wont really preform much
> better than my FireFly as far a cruising speed.
> My numbers with the UL-II-02 are pretty close...
> 60 mph cruise at 5300...2.5 gph
> 75 or so WOT (6200) @ 3.5 GPH...maybe higher fuel...have never really held
> it WOT for very long..I just know it really burns the gas at 6200 which is
> what Im propped for. MAX hp is 38 @ 6200
>
> ANYway... looks like a 503 FS II will do 2 things the Fly wont...hold a
tad
> more gear an stuff....and burn more gas...but not really cruise faster.???
>
> Now...John H...John W....and all you X-country'in Kolbers....I was under
the
> impression that you guys cruised faster than 60mph...right?
> when you guys flew MV last year..or ...anywhere else you have been on a
> "Kolb Karavan" trip.....do you have trouble slowing up for the
> FireStars?...
> I Know That where I fly out of..I'm about the fastest cruiser at 60 mph of
> all the regular flyers...and the Fly really just doesnt fly well below
about
> 50...throttle hunts around...you have to pay to much attention to flying
to
> enjoy it.
> I have been making 150 mile flights this summer. (got a 10 gal tank
> now)..just wandering in big circles..ending up back at homeplate and
having
> a ball visiting airports and UL feilds in central Illinois.
>
> I reckon what I'm askin is....How do you all get along on a fairly long
> You can guess that I'm askin all these silly questions because I would
> dearly luv to join up in a x-country..but I dont want to hold up the
> caravan...and the trouble is I cant haul any gear for a RON...so I was
> thinking of a FSII....But it doesnt look like thats the bird to do it in
> either.
>
> Now...all you who where kind enough to share info with me...share your
> thoughts on this also!
>
> thx men...
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Linda Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
>
> >
> > >> Thom, others,
> >> Lets keep brainstorming this NE get together.
> >> Why let all the other guys have all the fun, after all we North
> >> Easters only
> >> get a few months out of the year to enjoy our birds.
> >> Denny
> >>
> >
> Denny, Thom and other pilots in the northeast,
> I'm all for a get together of some kind. Maybe we can set up a
> Homer Farm fly-in for next summer when most of the list hasn't commited to
other
> flights already. For this summer, if July is busy for some as it has been
> stated, possibly June would be a good time? If there is interest in a
gathering
> at Cooperstown, NY. let me know and I'll contact the owner.
> Fly Safe
> Bob Griffin
>
> Bob,
The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in is in June and my work schedule will allow
me to get there Saturday and Sunday.
How do you all feel about just trying to get everyone we can to that one,
and if the weather destroys those plans they have a last chance fly in later
in the year.
How bout it,
Dennis Rowe
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Farm 1989 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> That couldn't have been a 277 in the biplane, could it?!
>
> George RAndolph
Hi George/All:
The 277 was in the Pegasus, H-3, low wing mono plane.
Thanks for the kind words. :-)
johnh
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> If there is interest in a gathering
> at Cooperstown, NY. let me know and I'll contact the owner.
> Fly Safe
> Bob Griffin
Bob G/All:
If I was going to able to fly up for this one I would love to flyin here:
http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Osh%201989/Westville%20AP,%20NY.jpg
This is Westville AP, Cooperstown, NY. Was built for a Kolb flyin.
Beautiful country to fly in. Grass strip. Cafe on site. Lots of nice
green grass to camp on.
Take care,
john h
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Don and all,
I am lucky, I also get to fly a FireStar II out of the same airport I hangar
the Kolbra at.
We have flown formation a lot together and it works out that the FireStar
flys at 5900 rpm and 75 mph and burns a lot of gas. The Kolbra with the
Jabiru would fly at 2500 rpm and 75 mph and burn 3.4 gph.
As John H stated, it is easy to fly slower. The slower folks have to be
willing to use a little more gas and get to the next refuel point a little
earlier than they normally would.
Just running some simple numbers, to find the time difference between a 75
mph cruise and normal cruise for the FireStar and Kolbra they look like
this:
150 miles at 70 mph = 2 hour 09 minutes
150 miles at 75 mph = 2 hour 00 minutes FireStar = 9 minutes quicker,
Kolbra = 14 later.
150 miles at 85 mph = 1 hour 46 minutes
The great part of flying with a little slower aircraft is that the faster
aircraft can fly be the wingman and goof-off and do a whole lot of playing
around and still pop back in formation quickly.
If you can fly above 70 mph, I know I would like to fly with you.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: 508 hours, Rotax 912 ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Ron,
I would like to have that info too.
Dale
Sellers
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireStar II questions
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> Help, I lost a sheet of paper that had all the operating RPM's for my
> ultarstar ,idle,cruise ect, fuel burn ?, need to make a placard , i got
> that dreaded CRS! thanks ron in 21* west texas,, that's cold to us!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireStar II questions
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini"
<donghe@one-eleven.net>
> >
> > Thx Tom...and all you Firestar owners for the dope!...
> >
> > however...The general conclusion is a FireStar wont really preform much
> > better than my FireFly as far a cruising speed.
> > My numbers with the UL-II-02 are pretty close...
> > 60 mph cruise at 5300...2.5 gph
> > 75 or so WOT (6200) @ 3.5 GPH...maybe higher fuel...have never really
held
> > it WOT for very long..I just know it really burns the gas at 6200 which
is
> > what Im propped for. MAX hp is 38 @ 6200
> >
> > ANYway... looks like a 503 FS II will do 2 things the Fly wont...hold a
> tad
> > more gear an stuff....and burn more gas...but not really cruise
faster.???
> >
> > Now...John H...John W....and all you X-country'in Kolbers....I was under
> the
> > impression that you guys cruised faster than 60mph...right?
> > when you guys flew MV last year..or ...anywhere else you have been on a
> > "Kolb Karavan" trip.....do you have trouble slowing up for the
> > FireStars?...
> > I Know That where I fly out of..I'm about the fastest cruiser at 60 mph
of
> > all the regular flyers...and the Fly really just doesnt fly well below
> about
> > 50...throttle hunts around...you have to pay to much attention to flying
> to
> > enjoy it.
> > I have been making 150 mile flights this summer. (got a 10 gal tank
> > now)..just wandering in big circles..ending up back at homeplate and
> having
> > a ball visiting airports and UL feilds in central Illinois.
> >
> > I reckon what I'm askin is....How do you all get along on a fairly long
> > You can guess that I'm askin all these silly questions because I would
> > dearly luv to join up in a x-country..but I dont want to hold up the
> > caravan...and the trouble is I cant haul any gear for a RON...so I was
> > thinking of a FSII....But it doesnt look like thats the bird to do it in
> > either.
> >
> > Now...all you who where kind enough to share info with me...share your
> > thoughts on this also!
> >
> > thx men...
> >
> > Don Gherardini
> > FireFly 098
> > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "johnjung@compusenior.com" <johnjung@compusenior.com>
Don and Group,
I think that you are right about the Firestar not being a good enough
cross-country machine to fly with the 912's. Even if the speed was
pushed up and they slowed down, the range would still be short because
of the 503's high fuel burn. If you held that 2SI at 70 mph for at
least 5 gallons, you would probably find that it would only take about
an hour.
Because I have room for a tent, sleeping bag and other gear, I believe
that I could travel on long trips with my Firestar. Dave and Will did
it. The only problem that I have had is being comfortable enough to sit
that long. My Original Firestar have a seat that I could sit in all day,
but not the Firestar II. I have added memory foam to the seat, but
haven't taken a long flight to test it.
The one thing that would help the Firestar II, to be a better
cross-country machine, is a four-cycle engine that would allow an 80 mph
cruise at a reasonable fuel burn. I currently am using a full enclosure
with sound insulation and 80 is feasable except for fuel burn.
John Jung
Firestar II 503 N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
I wanted to buy a copy of the old Kolb tape. I wrote it down and have lost the
name and adress. Can someone help me out? Mail to lynnp@c-gate.net
pp
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Thx John W...
Boy,,,I would like to fly in formation with you also...but.....above 70 is
stem wound for my Fly and the Cuyuna....sure..it will fly 75 maybe 78...but
I just cant bear the thought of running any engine WOT for more than a
little bit...temps go up...I can just hear those rings rubbin away! at
60..to 65 it will do ok....but that is about it. I have 41 hours on it
now...and I like the bird alot....but ..kinda like a dirt bike, it handles
great...nimble, responsive, but not to good for a road trip!.
Course..I already knew that...and as I have said before, I bought this kit
because it was a good deal...not because I was shopping for a
Kolb...figgered on sellin it pretty quick. What I didnt figger on is falling
in luv with the way it handles! The dang thing makes a fella want to do
things in an airplane he should not do...or at least not in a Kolb....maybe
a Pitts...or a Chaos....but not a FireFly!... best way to describe the
FireFly I have decided is she's a "Temptress!" I sure do like this
bird!...but the call of the far blue skies is in my ears, and I guess I'm
just trying to figger out what to ride next.
Anyway...had to postpone my road trip today...at least for a while due to
White-out conditions here...Old man winter is really a growlin! Might be
able to get out of here in a few hours.
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 15
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| Subject: | Drag Reduction - Tail Boom |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "vincenicely" <vincenicely@chartertn.net>
Hi John and Others,
> Bro Jim and I have been talking about taking some incidence out of the
wing
> on my MK III. We feel one of the biggest drag factors on most of the Kolb
> models is the high flying tail boom. Takes a lot more power to drag that
> thing through the air side ways rather than as the Sling Shot and Kolbra
do,
> in a more leve attitude and much smaller profile.
Have you considered adding a fairing to the bottom of the tail boom? I
would think you could make the cross-section of the tail boom in the
direction of flight nearly ideal by simply adding a formed sheet metal or
other type of tear-drop-like shape to the bottom of the boom. An
aerodynamics book I have suggests that up to 95% of the drag of a cylinder
can be removed by streamlining to the ideal shape. This book gives a graph
and table of the ideal shape too. It further suggests that a more practical
expectation is about 80% reduction, but that is still significant. Could
that
help drag reduction and be even simpler than altering other parts of the
airplane?
Vince Nicely
FireStar II
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Rowe wrote:
> The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in is in June and my work schedule will allow
> me to get there Saturday and Sunday.
> How do you all feel about just trying to get everyone we can to that one,
> and if the weather destroys those plans they have a last chance fly in later
> in the year.
> How bout it,
> Dennis Rowe
>
The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in will have at least a half a dozen or
more local Kolb drivers if the weather is flyable. Some of us would be
happy to join a Homer farm ambush. Lots of other local grass strips in
the area too.
Gene
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: FireStar II questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
John Jung
Yes sirree...you are reading my thoughts. A 4 stroke with a 75 to 80 cruise
would satisfy me fine. Better fuel burn..so you dont need to carry so much
fuel. Trouble is It does not sound like most of the fellas think a FS II
will handle the horsepower thet a 80 mph cruise would take. At least that is
kinda the conclusion I have drawn from my inquiry. I have larger engines
avail right here in the barn..but Dennis Souder told me the FlreFly has
thinner wall tubing in the cage than a Firestar...so if the FireStar wont
handle more than 50 hp or so, the FireFly certainly wouldnt. Might not even
handle 50.
AS far as the Fuel rate on the Cuyuna....I would not be suprised if you are
right...and holding the hammer down it might burn 5 gph...about the hardest
I have ever ran it at length was trying to keep up with w 503 powered Team
EROS(minimax)....we ran at 75 for about 20 minutes...I stayed right with
him, I was running about wide open most of the time, and I was not expecting
him to run that fast, and when we turned around to RTB....I kinda cut in an
took the lead at a slower pace...and he slowed down to stay with me. I Had
the Stock 5 gal jug fuel tank in it then...and when we got back to
homeplate....I was periously low on fuel. When we landed first thing he
asked was.."How fast were we going?"...I told him..and he said oh...
When I asked him what he was reading..he said..."well..I dunno..ASI never
gets above 40 mph, I think its busted" This Guy...he is a great wingman
to fly with..as he is cautious..and very smooth...but he has no radio..and
now I know no ASI....Im thinking about buying he a dang radio!!!
You say the New FSI has a different seat huh?....I didnt realize that...I
need to find a pic of one I think.
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 18
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 School |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Gang:
Will be attending the Rotax 912 School 1, 2, 3 Feb 04, at South Mississippi
Light Aircraft, Lucedale, MS. I had the opportunity to attend four years
ago when I picked up my new 912S. This will be a good chance to get updated
on the 912/912S/914.
If any of you have any specific questions you need answered, let me know bc.
I'll see if I can get the answers from Eric Tucker during the course.
Take care,
john h
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction - Tail Boom |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Have you considered adding a fairing to the bottom of the tail boom? I
> would think you could make the cross-section of the tail boom in the
> direction of flight nearly ideal by simply adding a formed sheet metal or
> other type of tear-drop-like shape to the bottom of the boom.
> Vince Nicely
Vince/All:
May have a good idea there.
Wonder what that would look like?
Wonder if some folks would still call my airplane "The Flying Pencil"?
To decrease incidence in wing would require cutting off the top of the
windshield.
Plenty time to think about the problem.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
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| Subject: | Drag Reduction - Tail Boom |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Scan the books page /pic and I can make a sheet metal drawing template.
For all to have.
Ken
can be removed by streamlining to the ideal shape. This book gives a graph
and table of the ideal shape too. It further suggests that a more practical
expectation is about 80% reduction, but that is still significant. Could
that
help drag reduction and be even simpler than altering other parts of the
airplane?
Vince Nicely
FireStar II
Do Not Archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Maybe I could bum a ride in a Kolb at Wellsville. Help keep me building. To
Dam Cold in the garage to do any work and for some reason my wife won't let
me drag a wing into the dinning room she funny that way :-)
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Zimmerman [mailto:eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: NE gathering
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
<eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Rowe wrote:
> The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in is in June and my work schedule will
allow
> me to get there Saturday and Sunday.
> How do you all feel about just trying to get everyone we can to that one,
> and if the weather destroys those plans they have a last chance fly in
later
> in the year.
> How bout it,
> Dennis Rowe
>
The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in will have at least a half a dozen or
more local Kolb drivers if the weather is flyable. Some of us would be
happy to join a Homer farm ambush. Lots of other local grass strips in
the area too.
Gene
Message 22
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| Subject: | Quote of the day.. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Since it is not a fit day out fer man ner beast (light freezing rain and
snow pellets) here I am at 4 in the afternoon, sitting surrounded by maps
and the trusty E6-B computer, figuring out how long it would take to fly
from 3TN0 Tennessee to Phoenixville, PA and go to the Homer Kolb Fly-In.
The wife wanders by and says, "What are you doing?"
"Figuring out long it will take me to get to Homer Kolb's in Phoenixville,
Pennsylvania. It is 450 miles."
She looks at the clock and says, "You should have started earlier."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Coordinates for Homer's strip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Does anybody have the lat/longs for Homer Kolb's strip?
Thanks
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinates for Homer's strip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Richard/All:
Check it out:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/43PA
john h
> Does anybody have the lat/longs for Homer Kolb's strip?
>
> Thanks
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
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| Subject: | Super Kolbra Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Gentlemen,
The Rotax 912 ULS 100 hp engine might be little "Over Kill" when installed
on a Kolb Kolbra. But I'm gonna keep it.
A little cool here in Texas today so that helped improve some of the
performance.
Here are some numbers from the first flight. I will refine them during the
next 5 hours of flying:
Max Static RPM - 5420, PA - 0, OAT - 39
Initial Take-Off - 5420 RPM, 1500 FPM climb at 70 MPH IAS
Cruise Speeds:
5500 RPM - 110 MPH
5100 RPM - 100 MPH
4900 RPM - 96 MPH
4700 RPM - 90 MPH
4500 RPM - 85 MPH
4200 RPM - 80 MPH
4000 RPM - 70 MPH
3800 RPM - 60 MPH
Power-Off Stall (Idle RPM 1620 in-flight) - 48 MPH IAS
Power-On Stall (Full throttle RPM 5420) - 42 MPH IAS and still climbing 1000
FPM.
It seem that the Kolbra is going to do very nicely with this new engine.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: 510 hours, Rotax 912 ULS, 68" 3 blade Warp Drive Prop
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Super Kolbra Update |
required 4.6, BAYES_00 -4.90)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Awesome John!!!! so ya think the 912UL with a 70" three blade warp will get
the job done right? Headed to shop the first wing (left) goes on the wall
tonight!!! Thanks John for the wing mod ideas! I will post photos later....
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Super Kolbra Update
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
<kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> The Rotax 912 ULS 100 hp engine might be little "Over Kill" when installed
> on a Kolb Kolbra. But I'm gonna keep it.
>
> A little cool here in Texas today so that helped improve some of the
> performance.
>
> Here are some numbers from the first flight. I will refine them during
the
> next 5 hours of flying:
>
> Max Static RPM - 5420, PA - 0, OAT - 39
>
> Initial Take-Off - 5420 RPM, 1500 FPM climb at 70 MPH IAS
>
> Cruise Speeds:
> 5500 RPM - 110 MPH
> 5100 RPM - 100 MPH
> 4900 RPM - 96 MPH
> 4700 RPM - 90 MPH
> 4500 RPM - 85 MPH
> 4200 RPM - 80 MPH
> 4000 RPM - 70 MPH
> 3800 RPM - 60 MPH
>
> Power-Off Stall (Idle RPM 1620 in-flight) - 48 MPH IAS
>
> Power-On Stall (Full throttle RPM 5420) - 42 MPH IAS and still climbing
1000
> FPM.
>
> It seem that the Kolbra is going to do very nicely with this new engine.
>
>
> John Williamson
> Arlington, TX
>
> Kolb Kolbra: 510 hours, Rotax 912 ULS, 68" 3 blade Warp Drive Prop
> http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Super Kolbra Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> 4500 RPM - 85 MPH
> Power-Off Stall (Idle RPM 1620 in-flight) - 48 MPH IAS
> John Williamson
John W/Gang:
Do you have a tow hook on the tail for chubby MKIII's to tag along?
What was your power off stall before 912S installation?
48 mph IAS seems a little high. You may have a "proud" ASI. "Proud" or
not, you still have a fast, heavy hauler.
Did the initial take off make you smile?
Glad you got to fly it!!!
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
John, I like the sound of that. Was thinking of what to name the mods that I have
made to my wing for the past couple of weeks and thinking the same. "Super
Modified Kolb Wing". Photos coming soon.....real soon....
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
do not archive
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
The wing mods were from John Hauck. sorry
pp
do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
> The Wellsville Fathers Day fly in is in June and my work schedule will allow
> me to get there Saturday and Sunday.
> How do you all feel about just trying to get everyone we can to that one,
> and if the weather destroys those plans they have a last chance fly in later
> in the year.
> How bout it,
> Dennis Rowe
Hey, That sounds like a great idea to me. There could be at least 5-6
Kolbs in this area that could possibly make it there if the weather
cooperates this year?! -- Earl
Do Not Archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | firestar update on the milows web P |
UPPERCASE_25_50
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hay all
Have really enjoyed the pictures posted by john h and the stuff on the list the
past week. Milow tim finnaly gave me some piks of his plane check them out. neat
detail of mods to his firestar.
uncle craig
MKIIIex 912uls warp
Arizona
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: NE gathering |
required 5, BAYES_00)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
put it in the bedroom, she WILL change her mind and let you use the dining
room ,ha!!!
To
Dam Cold in the garage to do any work and for some reason my wife won't let
me drag a wing into the dinning room she funny that way
----- Original Message -----
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: NE gathering
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Super Kolbra Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
John Williamson wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> The Rotax 912 ULS 100 hp engine might be little "Over Kill" when installed
> on a Kolb Kolbra. But I'm gonna keep it.
Oh! Please stop!! Your making us all cry!! :-) Good for you sounds like
fun! -- Earl
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: NE Kolb Homecoming |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Scott Trask <sctrask@diisd.org>
on 1/26/04 3:34 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen at NeilsenRM@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> This sounds interesting but around July 4th isn't good for me and near the
> end of July I will be heading for Oshkosh. Which brings to mind an earlier
> post of mine about getting a group to fly into Oshkosh this year. Anyone
> interested???
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NE Kolb Homecoming
Hi Rick and list
I'll be planning on flying in again into OSH this year. It will be my 12th
year on flying in. You're more than welcome to stop here again and fly in
with me. Rick, I'll even cut a few more tree limbs off for you. John W. I'll
cut some more ferns at the end of the runway for you. Those Alaskan
travelers could swing in on their way back from Alaska (with whale blubber
on their breaths). There's always fresh venison here in the U.P. ( NOT
freezer burned, John H.). I do realize that it would be a little far north
for you guys coming from Alaska, but know that you are welcome.
The Homecoming gathering would be nice. As long as the group doesn't stay
too long. I would think everyone could meet someplace else and everybody
could fly in together, if this wasn't already thought of.
You guys in the N.E. should gather at the week-long Yankee fly-in in July.
I haven't gone in 3 years. We were attending every year prior to that. It's
a great time!
Scott Trask IMT
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Coordinates for Homer's strip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 1/27/04 5:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rwpike@charter.net writes:
> Does anybody have the lat/longs for Homer Kolb's strip?
My flying buddy Ken Mancus and I flew there on Oct. 7, 1997. He had a GPS
and got the following by pressing the mark button to record the spot: N
39-32.07 W 075-17.88
But then another fellow gave me N 40-10.00 and W 075-33.00 and I'm not sure
how much the difference would make in finding it from the air.
Both fellows have since gone west.
Do Not Archive
Bill Varnes
Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Denny, Richard, all
I like the idea of staging a Homer Kolb fly-in this year. It's one of
those things that gets put of and then never done if not now. It only
takes someone to come up with a date and then do it. I can make it
anytime, weather permitting, so it should be arranged for when the most
working Kolbers could make. Open to suggestions. What ever date would
be agreed on, prior contact should be made with Homer to see if he is
agreeable and available. I have flown into his farm to show him my
FireFly and found him to be very gracious of his time. Still I
think we would want to make prior arrangements for a group fly-in.
As an alternative: I think the fly-in at Wellsville is a good choice.
It is already a major UL fly-in each year and well attended when the
weather allows. Last year was a wash because of weather! Grass strip
with facilities, lodging and fuel! Get to see allot of other UL's
there!
I see that John has already answered Richard's question about
coordinates for Homer's farm. You might be surprised as to how close
you will be flying to a nuclear power plant which is right across the
Schuylkill River from his place. They also have an airport right next
to the power plant called Pottstown/Limerick and it's something else to
fly into and out of next to those big stacks. This is where Homer first
learned to fly long before the nuclear power plant was built
So let's hear some dates and rain dates for a North East fly-in! Then
it can be resolved as to where.
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 37
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Trask
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NE Kolb Homecoming
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT
ARCHIVE DO NOT
Rick,Scott John :
I plan to go to Oshkosk this year lets get a meeting place and I,d love to fly
in with a bunch of Kolbs Milow tim is planning to have his firestar ready too.
Uncle craig
MKIII 912uls warp
Arizona
DO NOT ARCHIVE DO MOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT
ARCHIVE DO NOT
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Scott Trask <sctrask@diisd.org>
on 1/26/04 3:34 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen at NeilsenRM@comcast.net wrote:
> Which brings to mind an earlier
> post of mine about getting a group to fly into Oshkosh this year. Anyone
> interested???
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NE Kolb Homecoming
Hi Rick and list
I'll be planning on flying in again into OSH this year. It will be my 12th
Scott Trask IMT
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Lowering FireFly Propeller Thrust Line |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Jack & Louise Hart wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
> FireFlyers & Kolbers,
>
> I cut the IVO propeller to 56 inches so that it would clear the tail tube with
the belt reducer rotated 135 degrees down from its original position. This
drops the thrust line to six inches below that of the Rotax 447. Still waiting
for flyable weather so that I can test it out. Out of curiosity, I ran some
numbers to see what happens when one lowers the thrust line on a FireFly.
>
> Basically, it shows that a higher thrust line adds to the wing and the horizontal
tail loads. Flying with a more rear CG reduces wing and horizontal tail
loads. By rotating the belt reduction unit 135 degrees down, it drops the thrust
line 9.39 inches. The calculations indicate a drop in wing and tail loads
of 9.9 pounds with a CG at 37%. If one keeps everything else the same but moves
the CG forward to 20% the change in wing and tail loads due to thrust line
shift remain the same, but the total loads increase by 18 pounds.
>
> Now I must fly the FireFly, to see if the reduction in wing and tail loading
will off-set the loss in propeller efficiency by cutting it from 62 to 56 inches.
Fuel burn rates from a couple of one half hour flights with the belt reducer
in the 45 and the 135 degree off set should indicate if thrust line lowering
is effective.
>
> The calculations and assumptions can be seen at:
>
> http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly101.html
>
> Waiting for a 40+ degree, no rain or fog day with the wind below 20 mph.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
> Jack & Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
Jack,
Will be waiting to hear how the flight goes and if it verifies your calculations.
Keep us posted.
Terry - FireFly #95
Do Not Archive
Message 39
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Russell Phillips" <rphillip1999@hotmail.com>
That would be great to have more Kolbs at Footlight Ranch in Wellsville, Pa. I've been going the last 8 or 9 years missing it just once. There is where I got my first ride in a Kolb which convinced me thats the way to go. I'm about 3/4 the way done with my Mark III now. The camping there is fine (right next to the runway) and there is a bunkhouse where you can reserve a room ahead. They have a website if you want to learn more about the place. It is www.footlightranch.com (they don't update it often) . When the weather is good, 70 to 75 aircraft is common for the Fathers Day Flyin. Its a real friendly place. Hope many of youmake the trip. I'll be there, planeless :(butstill smilingbecause of all the small planes nearby.
Russ
Building Mark III Classic
SW N.Y. "cold and snowy"
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers!
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Super Kolbra Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
John H and all,
The Kolbra has always stalled at 48 mph power-off at this weight and at 42
mph power-on. The big difference is I wasn't climbing at 1000 fpm hanging
on the prop.
Lift off occurred at 4800 rpm before I could get it to full throttle. When
full power was finally reached and the VSI showed 1500 fpm at 70 mph, I knew
it was going to be a great ride.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: 510 hours, Rotax 912 ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Paul,
How old is old for the tape you're looking for? I've got a tape from the old
Kolb that has the Laser and Slingshot added to the end of the tape. Is that
old enough?
James Tripp
FSII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: video
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> I wanted to buy a copy of the old Kolb tape. I wrote it down and have lost
the name and adress. Can someone help me out? Mail to lynnp@c-gate.net
>
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | NE Kolb gathering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Kolbers,
So it looks like we will all try to make Wellsville for the Fathers day fly in.
If time allows maybe we can put together a sorty to Homers.
As I mentioned before, I am off work the week of independance day and am open to
ideas.
Denny
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