Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:27 AM - Re: oopps (Paul Petty)
2. 01:29 AM - Re: oopps (Paul Petty)
3. 02:49 AM - Re: enclosure question (Jim Ballenger)
4. 06:05 AM - BRS (Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill)
5. 06:16 AM - Re: Silencer box (Steven Green)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: Silencer box (Christopher Armstrong)
7. 07:54 AM - Re: BRS (Jim O'Day)
8. 08:37 AM - Intake silencer (Terry)
9. 09:42 AM - hipec (Clay Stuart)
10. 09:50 AM - Re: more wing (John Hauck)
11. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: mo' n mo' wing (John Hauck)
12. 10:07 AM - Re: oopps - Dropped/dented Six Inch Tubes (John Hauck)
13. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: mo' n mo' wing (John Hauck)
14. 10:30 AM - Re: Fabric attachment (John Hauck)
15. 10:38 AM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (John Hauck)
16. 10:56 AM - wing mod weights (boyd young)
17. 11:04 AM - Re: Silencer box (Bob N.)
18. 11:05 AM - Re: Wing Mod Weights (John Hauck)
19. 12:34 PM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill)
20. 12:45 PM - Re: enclosure question (ul15rhb@juno.com)
21. 12:57 PM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (John Hauck)
22. 02:21 PM - Repeating the basics. Again. (Richard Pike)
23. 02:34 PM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill)
24. 02:44 PM - Re: enclosure question (Thom Riddle)
25. 03:30 PM - Re: enclosure question (bryan green)
26. 03:33 PM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (bryan green)
27. 03:41 PM - Mo betta (Mike Pierzina)
28. 03:44 PM - engine cowling (Clay Stuart)
29. 03:51 PM - Re: Mo betta (ronnie wehba)
30. 04:08 PM - BRS mounting options (Fackler, Ken)
31. 04:31 PM - Re: Repeating the basics. Again. (Duncan McBride)
32. 04:34 PM - Fuel tank outlets (Dale Sellers)
33. 04:46 PM - BRS Mounting and Deployment (John Hauck)
34. 04:52 PM - Re: BRS Canister Repack (Gary r. voigt)
35. 05:11 PM - Rib Strength (Bill Vincent)
36. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: wings (GeoR38@aol.com)
37. 06:32 PM - Re: Fabric attachment (GeoR38@aol.com)
38. 06:34 PM - Re: Rib Strength (ul15rhb@juno.com)
39. 06:40 PM - Re: Fuel tank outlets (Richard Pike)
40. 07:10 PM - Re: Fabric attachment (Richard Pike)
41. 07:11 PM - Re: Rib Strength (John Hauck)
42. 07:12 PM - Re: Rib Strength (Christopher Armstrong)
43. 07:23 PM - Re: enclosure question (ZackGSD@aol.com)
44. 07:25 PM - [ Mike Pierzina ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
45. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: enclosure question (ZackGSD@aol.com)
46. 07:27 PM - Re: enclosure question (ZackGSD@aol.com)
47. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: wings (Christopher Armstrong)
48. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: wings (GeoR38@aol.com)
49. 11:01 PM - Re: mod weight (possums)
Message 1
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required 4.6, BAYES_00 -4.90)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Roger that!! I had stops on during round one, guess I got carried away.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: oopps
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong"
<tophera@centurytel.net>
>
> Well I would put a couple of stops on your saw horses/work table right
> now... that was the first thing I did, so I had to ding my spar the old
> fashioned way, by dropping tools on it.
>
>
Message 2
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required 4.6, BAYES_00 -4.90)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Thanks Denny, I'm up at 3:30am....ears still ringing from the crash....
pp
do not archive
---- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: oopps
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Paul wrote:
>
> Surprisingly there was only one small dent in each end.
> > So here is the question of the day. Can I fix the ding and move on? My
> thoughts say yes. I'm thinking about cutting a plug, if you will, out of
> 3/4" plywood and bevel it ever so slightly and drive it in the end. Or get
> my machinist buddy to machine a piece of steel pipe with a slight taper to
> resize the end. The root end dent will come out when I rivet the steel
ring
> into place.
>
>
> Paul,
> I would feel comfortable with working the dents out and using the spar,
> being they are on the ends, they should not be under much load, especially
> the tip end, and as you said the ring takes care of the root end.
>
> See what others think, but I say its probably fine.
>
> The spars and tail boom are the same tubing.
>
> Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Alan
I have a FS KXP with a rotax 447 on it. It was built in the early 90s. I
have a full enclosure going from the nose fairing to the back of the seat.
Both sides of the enclosure are removable with the entry door on the right
side. I have flown a couple of times with the sides removed but there was
to much wind in my face making it very uncomfortable. As far as extra fuel,
I have a 3.75 gallon tank mounted in the wing gap cover with a petcock valve
to drain to the main 5 gallon tank when room is available. I monitor the
transfer with a small handheld mirror. I also have two 1 gallon tanks
mounted right behind my seat that I use to fill the other tanks on the
ground. With all fuel tanks full and flying in the summer heat and humidity,
my ground run is longer on take off and my climb rate is reduced, but it is
well worth it knowing I can fly a couple of hours before having to land.
Jim Ballenger
Flying a FS KXP 447
Building a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZackGSD@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
>
> i'm new to the list, so forgive me if i do not get this just right. i
just
> bought a one-owner 95 kold firestar in mint condition w 90 hrs. 503,
single
> card. i am a ga pilot and have had two ul in the past. two
questions..1.. has
> anyone enclosed an older firestar before with lexan? at least back to the
> bulk-head, right before the 5 gal. tank? 2. has anyone every placed a
small
> extra tank right behind the seat, i.e., a 3 gal tank? would this change
the cg to
> do so, or is that right on the mark?
>
> alan
>
>
Message 4
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| From: | "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz> |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am wondering how
absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job done??
Any experience out there on this?
Thanks.
Jimmy
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Silencer box |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steven Green" <kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong"
<tophera@centurytel.net>
Who is up for a SWAG. ( newbys SWAG stands for Scientific Wild Ass Guess.)
If you put a hole in your nice finished box right in front of the current
outlet you would have a short path and a long path.
The differences in length are equal to a time when you devide by the speed
of sound. ~1000 feet per second. If that distance is equal to n+0.5 ( n=0
or any positive integer ) wave lengths at the frequency that you want to
squash then you will get the canceling effect that you are looking for.
So if you want to squash say 11000hz (5500 rpm times two cylinders sucking)
then you have (~1000ft/sec)/(11000/sec)= .091 feet (1.1 inches) peek to
peek.
Topher,
5500 RPM times two is 11,000 cycles per minute. Divide 11,000 by 60 to get
Hz. It would be about 183 Hz. wouldn't it?
Steven Green
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
What a stupid mistake. Only off by a factor of 60... oh well! I thought
that seamed like a fairly short wave length, more like a wavelength for
light then sound.
At 180hz (~1000ft/sec)/(180/sec)= 5.55 feet (66 inches) peek to
peek. 33" is the first half wave...no wonder there are always long
tailpipes.
Topher
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Green
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Silencer box
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steven Green" <kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong"
<tophera@centurytel.net>
Who is up for a SWAG. ( newbys SWAG stands for Scientific Wild Ass Guess.)
If you put a hole in your nice finished box right in front of the current
outlet you would have a short path and a long path.
The differences in length are equal to a time when you devide by the speed
of sound. ~1000 feet per second. If that distance is equal to n+0.5 ( n=0
or any positive integer ) wave lengths at the frequency that you want to
squash then you will get the canceling effect that you are looking for.
So if you want to squash say 11000hz (5500 rpm times two cylinders sucking)
then you have (~1000ft/sec)/(11000/sec)= .091 feet (1.1 inches) peek to
peek.
Topher,
5500 RPM times two is 11,000 cycles per minute. Divide 11,000 by 60 to get
Hz. It would be about 183 Hz. wouldn't it?
Steven Green
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim O'Day" <oday@cableone.net>
I guess the people with "bad" experience cannot comment. Do you really want
to find out the hard way whether the repacking is the right thing to do? I
have a BRS on my FS and I did a repack, the price is steep, but it needs to
function as designed. My BRS sat new in box, un-mounted for 3 years, but I
sent it for a repack before I flew the plane.
Jim
Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am wondering
how absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job done??
Any experience out there on this?
Thanks.
Jimmy
Do not archive
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Toper, Steve,
Thanks for the input on the math of noise canceling silencers. I
appreciate knowing how the wave lengths are calculated. Now I have to
see if I have the where withal to fashion something that will work.
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Here is another link to this covering system:
http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/hipec.html
Sounds good. It is approved for certified aircraft they claim. Archives
show some conversation about this several years ago. Maybe the skeptics
will have a different opinion since there is more history now.
Clay Stuart
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Now what we need is a reality check by one of the listers who didn't sit
on
> the back row.
> Guys?
>
> Richard Pike
Richard?Gang:
I can see it plain as day this morning. Last night I was tired, had been
reinstalling and sorting out my old computer I got back from my Son. Had
not had much sleep prior to.
Pretty simple to see this morning. Like a "T" handle tool. Push on one
side of the "T" or the other and it reacts accordingly. Don'r really know
why I could not see that yesterday. May be a product of age. :-)
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: re: mo' n mo' wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> John, you're an old rotor head....remember precession? > -BB do not
archive
Bob/Gang:
Thanks for the refresher. Just the mention of precession and thinking about
a single main rotor brought it all back.
Thanks again,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: oopps - Dropped/dented Six Inch Tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Well I would put a couple of stops on your saw horses/work table right
> now... that was the first thing I did, so I had to ding my spar the old
> fashioned way, by dropping tools on it. Topher
Topher/Gang:
I had forgotten about the main spar rolling off the saw horses. Yes, I have
been there too. Had the same bend, only in one end. A rubber mallet will
convinve the 6 inch tube to return to its former shape. Make sure,
especially when riveting to the inboard steel ring, to wedge or otherwise,
convince the tube to make contact with the inside of the steel ring before
drilling and riveting. This aluminum stuff is pretty easy to work with.
Take care,
john h
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: re: mo' n mo' wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> The rotor heads might remember that as you speed up from
> hover the advancing blade starts making more lift then the retreating
blade
> rolling you to the retreating blade side so you have to move the
collective
> to the advancing bade side.
Topher/All:
For the sake of correctness, the collective pulls pitch into both blades, or
increases and decreases pitch. The cyclic is used to input changes to the
"tip path plane" or the "rotor disk". When Igor Sikorski started
experimenting with helicopters he had to manually and mentally adjust for
"precession". When he want to tip the rotor disk forward, he had to input
right cyclic or right control stick. We finally got around to overcoming
all this with the new swash plates and some other stuff that has long been
mothballed back in the recesses of my memory bank.
> Flapped rotors work more like a weight shift trike, tilting the rotor
> disk and generating a side force with a vertical moment arm to the cg,
with
> the same results.
I think the above refers to gyrocopters and trikes. Both are weight shift.
A helicopter rotor disk flies and controls its self with increased and
decreased blade pitch. Gyro is fixed pitch and weight shift just like the
weight shift trike and similar to some of our old weight shift controlled
fixed wing ultralights.
I might add, the VNE on rotor wing aircraft is restricted by "retreating
blade stall". As forward speed is increased it takes less pitch in the
advancing blade and less in the retreating blade to keep the helicopter
level. Soon airspeed gets to the point the retreating blade can not fly
with any more increase in pitch and starts to stall. When this happens, a
Huey will roll left because there is no more lift of that side of the "tip
patch plane". A French Gazelle will roll right, not because it wants to be
different, but because the rotor system turns opposite of US helicopters.
Please: DO NOT ARCHIVE
john h
PS: Again, I may be full of crap too. I haven't thought about this stuff
in many, many years. Been 36 years since Primary 1 at Fort Wolters, Texas.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fabric attachment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> This was mentioned many moons ago, using the HIPEC system:
>
> No stitching or rivets..read more:
>
> http://www.sirius-aviation.com/hipec.html
>
> Andy
Hi Andy/All:
As far as I know, there has never been a rib failure on a Kolb aircraft
because of drilled tube for fabric attachment.
I, personally, like the mechanical means of attaching fabric with rivets.
The failure of both wings on my Fire Star was not the result of, nor did it
have anything to do with weakening of the ribs by drilling holes in them. I
do not think all strength is lost because of drilling when the hole is
filled back up with a rivet. Sure it is going to loose a little, how much,
I do not know.
I do know, I would not want to rely on an adhesive to secure fabric to the
ribs, especially a 5/16" tube with little contact surface.
Take care,
john h
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am
wondering how absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job done??
> Any experience out there on this?
> Thanks.
> Jimmy
Hi Jim/All:
What kind of price do you put on your butt?
What is the reason for carrying all that extra weight in the first place?
Recommend following instructions published by BRS if you intend to rely on
the BRS to save you, should you need it.
john h
PS: Survivor of to catastrophic failures in flight. Reason for failures is
not important at that moment. Reliability of recovery system is.
Message 16
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| Subject: | wing mod weights |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
I learded about structures from breaking
so many of them! In fact, I was the chief cook and airplane breaker at
Kolb. At least until JH came along ... One day Homer sez to me "Dennis,
you know you don't need to break our airpanes any more." I must have looked
pretty shocked because Homer then added. You don't need to break airplanes
any more because JH is doing it now. And I said to my self: "Self, Homer is
right, JH is doing a very capable job of breaking airplanes."
Dennis
--------------------------------
Dennis
just had to laugh when i saw this.... i guess that i had pictured you a bit more
serious, you know like donald trump with less money, its good to see your
light side. "And I said to my self: "Self, Homer is right," "
my smile is primed for the day.
boyd LOL
do not archive.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Silencer box |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Peek to peek--is that some kinda review of The Famous Halftime Caper?
That was just one peek.
Bob N. always aler...
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Mod Weights |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Still....all them holes just cant help...I'lll betcha if Homer didn't have
> to pay Dennis and John them danged high wages, he probably could have
> afforded a big ole press with some nice rib forming dies and we would have
> Kolbs with nice stamped ribs in em today!!!!
> (...grin....!)
>
> Don Gherardini
Don/All:
One of these days I'll sit down and try to explain the wing failure on my
Firestar. The 14th anniversary of the second time I used the old Jim
Handbury Hand Deployed Parachute, is coming up next month. Time flies when
you are having fun.
That story may be in the Kolb List Archives somewhere. I don't know.
I do know that the failure was not the result of drilling holes in the rib
for fabric rivets.
After six years of being a member of the Kolb List, many, many things have
been shared. Some of them, over and over. After a while it does get old to
those that have been here reading them, and also to those of us that do the
writing of them. That's the whole purpose of the Kolb Archives and the
importance to use a subject that will make finding this info easier, to
delete the referenced email with the exception of a line or two to let the
audience know what we are responding to, and using the "DO NOT ARCHVE"
notation at the bottome of our post so that info that does not need to be
archived and retrieved for information purposes does not clog up the system.
Some of you good ole Kolbers will scoff at the above paragraph. If however,
you want the system to work to "our" advantage, instead of against us, then
it is going to take a little dicipline on our "the members" part.
I don't mind sharing my experiences, good and bad, if it will prevent
someone out there from repeating my mistakes. Not so much a matter of
reinventing the wheel. Maybe more of seriously killing yourself and others.
I have come close several times, and have seen close friends and others pay
the ultimate price for their mistakes with these little birds that we love
so much.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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| From: | "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
While I appreciate your willingness to respond, I was hoping to hear from
someone with experience, not just opinions and philosophy.
In other words, do any of you know of a canister that has been fired after
6, 8, or 10 years?
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> > Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am
> wondering how absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job
done??
> > Any experience out there on this?
> > Thanks.
> > Jimmy
>
> Hi Jim/All:
>
> What kind of price do you put on your butt?
>
> What is the reason for carrying all that extra weight in the first place?
>
> Recommend following instructions published by BRS if you intend to rely on
> the BRS to save you, should you need it.
>
> john h
>
> PS: Survivor of to catastrophic failures in flight. Reason for failures
is
> not important at that moment. Reliability of recovery system is.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Alan,
I don't have full enclosure, but a long partial one. I also carry two 3
gallon tanks behind the seat on a small bench that I built that go over
the control cables. I have been carrying these tanks for years and it
does not affect the flight performance that much. Yes, the Firestar is
nose heavy and I have to hold back stick a little, but it's not a
problem.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ul15rhb@juno.com/
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ul15rhb@juno.com.12.10.2001/
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:13:01 EST ZackGSD@aol.com writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
>
> i'm new to the list, so forgive me if i do not get this just right.
> i just
> bought a one-owner 95 kold firestar in mint condition w 90 hrs. 503,
> single
> card. i am a ga pilot and have had two ul in the past. two
> questions..1.. has
> anyone enclosed an older firestar before with lexan? at least back
> to the
> bulk-head, right before the 5 gal. tank? 2. has anyone every
> placed a small
> extra tank right behind the seat, i.e., a 3 gal tank? would this
> change the cg to
> do so, or is that right on the mark?
>
> alan
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
> ==============================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> While I appreciate your willingness to respond, I was hoping to hear from
> someone with experience, not just opinions and philosophy.
> In other words, do any of you know of a canister that has been fired after
> 6, 8, or 10 years? Jimmy
Hi Jim:
I do speak from experience. Not necessarily BRS. I did not have the luxury
of a balistic system. Mine was hand deployed.
There have been several very old systems fired, not necessarily in an actual
emergency situation and save.
My recommendation remains. If you plan on using your outdated BRS Recovery
System, comply with BRS instructions for inspection and repack. There are
more considerations to a balistic recovery system than whether the rocket
will fire or not.
Even though it is an expensive system, it is still cheap insurance when the
need arises.
Take care,
john h
PS: Ask Dennis Souder about parachutes. He used an old Jim Handbury Hand
Deployed Parachute. When the time comes, if it comes, you will not hesitate
to shell out all that money. By then, it is too late. :-)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Repeating the basics. Again. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Our church meets in a big martial arts building, has been there for about
15 years. We pay their utilities, they let us use the building on Sunday,
it keeps the costs down, works good for everybody, and the church doesn't
spend any money on a fancy facility. (And believe me, it's not fancy!)
Up until a couple years ago, I was active in the martial arts, and just
like this list, there is always a turnover. Some come and try it for a
while and leave, others stay on and on. And it was always the old timers
that had to teach the newbies all the forms, all the throws, all the take
downs, over and over, it was just reflex to us, but to them it was a new
thing. Sure, it got old to some of us, but that was just how it had to be.
Same thing on this list. So don't worry about some things getting old for
us old timers on the list because of repetition, somebody has to tell the
newbies the same old things again, it just comes with the territory.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 01:05 PM 2/8/04 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>After six years of being a member of the Kolb List, many, many things have
>been shared. Some of them, over and over. After a while it does get old to
>those that have been here reading them, and also to those of us that do the
>writing of them. That's the whole purpose of the Kolb Archives and the
>importance to use a subject that will make finding this info easier, to
>delete the referenced email with the exception of a line or two to let the
>audience know what we are responding to, and using the "DO NOT ARCHVE"
>notation at the bottome of our post so that info that does not need to be
>archived and retrieved for information purposes does not clog up the system.
>
>Some of you good ole Kolbers will scoff at the above paragraph. If however,
>you want the system to work to "our" advantage, instead of against us, then
>it is going to take a little dicipline on our "the members" part.
>
>I don't mind sharing my experiences, good and bad, if it will prevent
>someone out there from repeating my mistakes. Not so much a matter of
>reinventing the wheel. Maybe more of seriously killing yourself and others.
>I have come close several times, and have seen close friends and others pay
>the ultimate price for their mistakes with these little birds that we love
>so much.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 23
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| From: | "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
Thanks; appreciate your information.
Jimmy
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> > While I appreciate your willingness to respond, I was hoping to hear
from
> > someone with experience, not just opinions and philosophy.
>
> > In other words, do any of you know of a canister that has been fired
after
> > 6, 8, or 10 years? Jimmy
>
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> I do speak from experience. Not necessarily BRS. I did not have the
luxury
> of a balistic system. Mine was hand deployed.
>
> There have been several very old systems fired, not necessarily in an
actual
> emergency situation and save.
>
> My recommendation remains. If you plan on using your outdated BRS
Recovery
> System, comply with BRS instructions for inspection and repack. There are
> more considerations to a balistic recovery system than whether the rocket
> will fire or not.
>
> Even though it is an expensive system, it is still cheap insurance when
the
> need arises.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> PS: Ask Dennis Souder about parachutes. He used an old Jim Handbury Hand
> Deployed Parachute. When the time comes, if it comes, you will not
hesitate
> to shell out all that money. By then, it is too late. :-)
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
The early, single seat, 377 powered FS I fly has permanent enclosure back to rear
of seat and a clear vinyl, Velcro attached removable enclosure from there back
to the bulkhead in front of the main 5 gal tank. No heat but there is no air
leaks either. It also has a 5 gal. Jerry can shaped aux. tank behind the sling
seat with an electric aux.. pump for transferring its fuel into main tank,
from which the engine gets it nutrition.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Hi Alan I am reworking my original Firestar adding an enclosure and a 10 gal
tank among other things. Although I am fabricating my enclosure from photos
the nice folks at TNK has an enclosure kit for a reasonable cost.
If you want I have photos of a lot of the guys enclosures if ya need to
see some.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZackGSD@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
>
> i'm new to the list, so forgive me if i do not get this just right. i
just
> bought a one-owner 95 kold firestar in mint condition w 90 hrs. 503,
single
> card. i am a ga pilot and have had two ul in the past. two
questions..1.. has
> anyone enclosed an older firestar before with lexan? at least back to the
> bulk-head, right before the 5 gal. tank? 2. has anyone every placed a
small
> extra tank right behind the seat, i.e., a 3 gal tank? would this change
the cg to
> do so, or is that right on the mark?
>
> alan
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
If I was not going to repack I would throw it away and save weight. Fly safe
and have fun.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
>
> While I appreciate your willingness to respond, I was hoping to hear from
> someone with experience, not just opinions and philosophy.
> In other words, do any of you know of a canister that has been fired after
> 6, 8, or 10 years?
>
> Thanks.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > > Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am
> > wondering how absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job
> done??
> > > Any experience out there on this?
> > > Thanks.
> > > Jimmy
> >
> > Hi Jim/All:
> >
> > What kind of price do you put on your butt?
> >
> > What is the reason for carrying all that extra weight in the first
place?
> >
> > Recommend following instructions published by BRS if you intend to rely
on
> > the BRS to save you, should you need it.
> >
> > john h
> >
> > PS: Survivor of to catastrophic failures in flight. Reason for
failures
> is
> > not important at that moment. Reliability of recovery system is.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Guys,
Just got my new Digital Camera...
It's a Sony DSC-F717 , you know, the little camera with the BIG HONKIN LENS...and
it has more features than I'll ever use...but, I just had to have it...
So now I can take better pictures ,close-ups...
In fact the closest can be 13/16" away..THAT'S CLOSE
On the other end it has 10 X zoom and 5 megipixel.
I've taken a picture of the Fuel vent/overflow
"tube holder"....it's a bracket that bolts to a cross
brace below the tanks (in case of ground loop)
But it allows me to disconnect them to cap off the fuel line and seal the tank
, just in case I would need to remove a tank to get gas...
I'm gonna try to send the picture thru the matrix,
But I haven't had any luck with that route yet...
But it should come in handy for some "newbie" questions....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
Do Not Archive
---
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
Message 28
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Uncle Craig and Kolb drivers,
How is the engine cowling testing going? I don't believe you have a BRS, do
you? Would there be room in front of the intake for the parachute?
Hasn't someone mounted the BRS underneath to fire downward? Any reason not
to have this configuration?
Clay Stuart
Message 29
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|
required 5, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
wow, you think being that big, we can see-uummm??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mo betta
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> Just got my new Digital Camera...
> It's a Sony DSC-F717 , you know, the little camera with the BIG HONKIN
LENS...and it has more features than I'll ever use...but, I just had to have
it...
> So now I can take better pictures ,close-ups...
> In fact the closest can be 13/16" away..THAT'S CLOSE
> On the other end it has 10 X zoom and 5 megipixel.
>
> I've taken a picture of the Fuel vent/overflow
> "tube holder"....it's a bracket that bolts to a cross
> brace below the tanks (in case of ground loop)
> But it allows me to disconnect them to cap off the fuel line and seal
the tank , just in case I would need to remove a tank to get gas...
> I'm gonna try to send the picture thru the matrix,
> But I haven't had any luck with that route yet...
>
> But it should come in handy for some "newbie" questions....
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ---
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap
> and build your wings on the way down...
> Gotta Fly...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
>
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | BRS mounting options |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
BRS themselves will consult with you on where to install the parachute. I
suggest you contact them.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II with BRS 1050 / A722KWF
Rochester MI
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: engine cowling
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
> Uncle Craig and Kolb drivers,
>
> How is the engine cowling testing going? I don't believe you have a BRS,
do
> you? Would there be room in front of the intake for the parachute?
>
> Hasn't someone mounted the BRS underneath to fire downward? Any reason
not
> to have this configuration?
>
> Clay Stuart
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Repeating the basics. Again. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
Sure enough, it's the innocent enthusiasm of us youngsters that keeps the
excitement alive.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Repeating the basics. Again.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
>......somebody has to tell the
> newbies the same old things again, it just comes with the territory.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> At 01:05 PM 2/8/04 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> >After six years of being a member of the Kolb List, many, many things
have
> >been shared......
do not archive
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank outlets |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Kolbers,
I have an Ultra Star I rebuilt (see photoshare) I used a 5 gal plastic gas can
for a tank instead of the original two plastic tanks that fit under your knees.
I placed the tank high above the engine, very close to the center of gravity.
For a fuel outlet and an outlet at the top of the tank for a clear tube gage, I
used the rubber grommets that push in a whole and the fittings push into them
which holds the whole arrangement in the tank. LEAF sells them and others I'm
sure. I had trouble with them leaking, not bad but alittle seapage. I tried
taking them out and putting some aviation permatex on it before putting it back
in. It held for awhile then leaked again.
I solved the problem bu going to my auto parts store and buying Mag Wheel valve
stems, They are made of brass and chrome plated.
They go in the wheel from the inside and have a machined flange and a neopreme
gasket that fits in the hole and under the flange. On the outside is a cupped
washer and a hex nut that tightens down squeezing the rubber gasket tight against
the hole in the wheel. I installed it in the hole in the bottom of my plastic
gas can by feeding a piece of safety wire through the filler neck and down
through the hole in the botton, then slid the valve stem down the wire. It
went straight into the hole.
Oh yes, I removed the valve core and drilled the inside of the valve stem out to
3/16" before installing it.
It works great, just slip your 1/4" fuel line over the stem and clamp. It is very
sturdy and I don't worry about it coming out. I've had no more leaking.
It will work on any tank, plastic or metal. And if you need to remove the tank
with fuel in it, remove the clamp, slide the hose off and install a valve cap.
Good idea I thought. Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
Message 33
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| Subject: | BRS Mounting and Deployment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Hasn't someone mounted the BRS underneath to fire downward? Any reason
not
> to have this configuration?
>
> Clay Stuart
Clay/All:
Probably a better question would be, "Has anyone ever tested a BRS mounted
to fire downward?"
Any reason not to have this configuration? I don't know.
No one knows what attitude the aircraft will be in when the system is
deployed. No one can predict what the aircraft is going to be doing when
the pilot pulls the "red handle". It could be flying straight and level, it
could be tumbling, it could be spinning, rolling, completely out of control.
I can tell you, from going through actual in flight failures and parachute
deployments, things to keep in mind, things to practice prior to the event,
so one does not have to think about them prior to making a decision. When
the time comes, there may not be time to dilly dally around. Every fraction
of a second saved could me whether you live or die. Period!!!
The two times I used a hand deployed parachute recovery system, the aircraft
was flying straight and level the first time, and the aircraft was in an
uncontrolled vertical dive on the second deployment. Much easier to perform
under these conditions, rather than in a tumbling or spinning attitude.
Airspeed is actually your friend should you have to deploy the system at low
level.
Engine should be shut down, or at least pulled back to idle power. Don't
want to get the parachute bridal into the prop, especially prior to
deployment. In this case a Warp Drive solid carbon fiber prop with a steel
leading edge would be worse case because of the possible ability of the prop
to cut or fowl the parachute.
Deployment handle should be in a location that is easy to find without
looking for it. Better yet to be able to get to it with either hand, in
case one hand is injured, etc. Best located for the most natural pull of
the handle.
Practice in the cockpit finding the red handle, while going through your
procedure for deployment, which should include shutting down engine, if you
can get to the switch, or at least closing throttle.
Have faith and confidence that the recovery system will work.
Do not hesitate to pull that handle, once you have determined that you are
not longer in control of the aircraft.
Do not forget that you have a recovery system on board.
Forget about tearing up your airplane, even though this will probably go
through your mind if that time comes.
If I have forgotten something, let me know. I probably have.
My parachute is mounted in the center section over my head (center of the
center section), to fire upward. It is a BRS 1050 softpack, completely
weather sealed under a frangible haircell plastic sheet riveted to the
center section and sealed with silicone seal. By getting the parachute
inside, I extend the repack time from two years to 6 years. I think the
rocket is a 10 year item. Will check with BRS when the time comes to do the
first repack.
What is the wings fail upward on Miss P'fer? Guess I am SOL, hehehe.
Seriously, I think that would be the last two things to fail on my airplane.
There was a failure of a wire braced UL at Disney World that resulted in a
fatality because the parachute fowled in the wings and wires. I can tell
you that on both my experiences, the left wing ended up on top of the right
wing, because I automatically failed the left lift strut when I threw the
parachute deployment bag out. I don't think the wing folded over on the
last accident until I went down through the trees though. I have a video of
the entire flight until the aircraft disappears in the trees. I believe
both wings are sticking straight out.
Anyhow, recovery systems are a good subject. Shoving it under the table or
back in the closet will not take the necessity for a recovery system away,
no matter how strong your airplane is. May never need it, but when you do,
there is no more comforting feeling knowing you were smart enough to spend
the bucks to get one, install, and train to use.
john h
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: BRS Canister Repack |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique@qwest.net>
Yes, i bought my kit from someone that had started a build and then had
health problems.....it is a 1991 kxp model and model 4 BRS sat in the box
for 10 years and since i only live about 35 minutes away from BRS i decided
to take it down and ask them what i should do
(loaded question that i will never question) of course they recommended that
i get an update to a BRS 5 and a repack to the tune of 1269.00...yep!!! and
i paid it and have felt very good about the decision ever since...i know
it's gonna go if i ever need to pull!!! and to answer your
question....yes...they did test mine and it took off like a rocket....and
that goes with out saying....yours may or may not work, please don't take
the chance...i want to see you around awhile flying that nice kolb.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
KXP 447
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
> If I was not going to repack I would throw it away and save weight. Fly
safe
> and have fun.
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy @ Jo Ann Hill"
<hillstw@jhill.biz>
> >
> > While I appreciate your willingness to respond, I was hoping to hear
from
> > someone with experience, not just opinions and philosophy.
> > In other words, do any of you know of a canister that has been fired
after
> > 6, 8, or 10 years?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BRS Canister Repack
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> > >
> > > > Having just bought a Firestar with a 9 year old BRS Canister, I am
> > > wondering how absolutely necessary it is to have a pricey repack job
> > done??
> > > > Any experience out there on this?
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Jimmy
> > >
> > > Hi Jim/All:
> > >
> > > What kind of price do you put on your butt?
> > >
> > > What is the reason for carrying all that extra weight in the first
> place?
> > >
> > > Recommend following instructions published by BRS if you intend to
rely
> on
> > > the BRS to save you, should you need it.
> > >
> > > john h
> > >
> > > PS: Survivor of to catastrophic failures in flight. Reason for
> failures
> > is
> > > not important at that moment. Reliability of recovery system is.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 35
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
Hi Kolb Drivers
With all this talk about the strength of the ribs in the Kolbs......did
anyone ever look inside a T-Birds wing?
I used to own a T-Bird, there is nothing inside the wing, just a ladder
type frame inside a big hollow wing.
The wing is covered with sail cloth and it has spring steel battens to
hold it's shape, since this seem's to work good ....
I would say the Kolb wing is exceedingly strong.
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Do Not Archive
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/04 11:46:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tophera@centurytel.net writes:
> Of course
> it could backfire and my plane might suck!
>
> Topher
>
Topher!!! ....you are a real trip!!
I MUST admit your dialog was very difficult for ME to follow, because I
don't even know what is meant by the most important word in your
dialog....wing "efficiency" If I had that explanation, I may have followed it better.
Please don't HATE me....just tryin to understand....
George Randolph
firestar driver...harumph....don't I wish.....with me in the villages and my
plane in Ohio
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Fabric attachment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/04 9:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
a1929gassmann@earthlink.net writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Andrew Gassmann <
> a1929gassmann@earthlink.net>
>
> This was mentioned many moons ago, using the HIPEC system:
>
> No stitching or rivets..read more:
>
> http://www.sirius-aviation.com/hipec.html
>
> Andy
>
Andy....I went there and if I'm not mistaken it sounded like hipec is a gluey
substance that does not require riveting or stitching to achieve the same
strength!! Is this what Wittman used??...or misused? er....sumpin??
George Randolph
Firestar driver
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Strength |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Trike wings have aluminum battens for ribs sewn into long pockets in the
wing with a small bungee cord holding them in. A trike has flown around
the globe and it makes me wonder how strong a kolb wing is by comparison.
I have noticed that trike wings have a very thick sailcloth that adds to
their strength.
Has anyone seen a Challenger wing inside? Not even close to a kolb.
I wonder what would happen if a wing is built too strong with no flex
built in? Can a wing be built too strong? Commercial jet wings flex
quite a bit, yet are strong enough to fly daily. I look at the Titan
wings and they seem to be super strong with the aluminum skin providing
much of that strength. Not much flexing there.
Would a kolb wing built like Paul Petty's be even stronger with heavier
fabric? Everything a builder does to beef up the wing adds weight, but
there seems to be a trade off in how long a guy wants it to last. Mine
seems to be fine after 17 years of flying, trailering, and setting up
each time. I would not doubt that it could last at least another 17 years
and this is a 5-rib wing. This little plane never sees the loads that a
Mark III or bigger plane would see and therein probably lies the answer.
Dennis (Souder) or Topher please comment on this .....
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:08:42 -0600 Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent
> <emailbill@chartermi.net>
>
> Hi Kolb Drivers
>
> With all this talk about the strength of the ribs in the
> Kolbs......did
> anyone ever look inside a T-Birds wing?
>
> I used to own a T-Bird, there is nothing inside the wing, just a
> ladder
> type frame inside a big hollow wing.
>
> The wing is covered with sail cloth and it has spring steel battens
> to
> hold it's shape, since this seem's to work good ....
> I would say the Kolb wing is exceedingly strong.
>
> Bill Vincent
> Firestar II
> Upper Peninsula of Michigan
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank outlets |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Dale, that is exactly what I am using as an oil outlet on my oil injection
tank. (Great minds think alike, eh?) Unfortunately, I had a piston seizure
when the outlet got blocked by a spider web, go figure. That is probably
something you won't have to worry about, but if you want a fuel strainer in
the tank to fit over your outlet, go to a store that sells kitchen goodies,
and get a tea strainer, cost you about a buck. They are a fine stainless
mesh ball about as big as a golf ball and they open up into two halves.
Poke a hole in one half and stick your fitting through, then put the rubber
gasket back on, close the strainer up and replace it in the tank, and no
Evil Leaves, Grass Stems, Bugs, Boogers, etc will ever block your outlet.
Since my filler opening was too small for the strainer ball to fit through,
I had to take the mesh off the circular frame and sew it into a sort of
filter sock with some fine wire, and then it fit ok, you may not need to do
that.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:34 PM 2/8/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
>Kolbers,
>I have an Ultra Star I rebuilt (see photoshare) I used a 5 gal plastic gas
>can for a tank instead of the original two plastic tanks that fit under
>your knees. I placed the tank high above the engine, very close to the
>center of gravity.
>For a fuel outlet and an outlet at the top of the tank for a clear tube
>gage, I used the rubber grommets that push in a whole and the fittings
>push into them which holds the whole arrangement in the tank. LEAF sells
>them and others I'm sure. I had trouble with them leaking, not bad but
>alittle seapage. I tried taking them out and putting some aviation
>permatex on it before putting it back in. It held for awhile then leaked
>again.
>I solved the problem bu going to my auto parts store and buying Mag Wheel
>valve stems, They are made of brass and chrome plated.
>They go in the wheel from the inside and have a machined flange and a
>neopreme gasket that fits in the hole and under the flange. On the
>outside is a cupped washer and a hex nut that tightens down squeezing the
>rubber gasket tight against the hole in the wheel. I installed it in the
>hole in the bottom of my plastic gas can by feeding a piece of safety wire
>through the filler neck and down through the hole in the botton, then slid
>the valve stem down the wire. It went straight into the hole.
>Oh yes, I removed the valve core and drilled the inside of the valve stem
>out to 3/16" before installing it.
>It works great, just slip your 1/4" fuel line over the stem and clamp. It
>is very sturdy and I don't worry about it coming out. I've had no more
>leaking. It will work on any tank, plastic or metal. And if you need to
>remove the tank with fuel in it, remove the clamp, slide the hose off and
>install a valve cap.
>
>Good idea I thought. Dale Sellers
>Georgia Ultra Star.
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Fabric attachment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
No. Steve Whitman was from the old school that used regular thinned
aircraft dope soaked through cotton fabric or linen to attach the fabric to
a plywood substrate. What you did was apply several coats of nitrate dope
to the plywood, lay the cotton covering over it, shrink it, and then brush
the thinner into the surface until the dope came up through the fabric. The
problem is that Dacron does not have all the little fuzzy micro fibers that
cotton or linen does, Dacron has to be encapsulated by the glue, or it is
not properly attached. Trying to attach Stits to plywood just by painting
Polybrush onto the plywood and then soaking the Polybrush up through the
fabric by using thinner (which is apparently what he did) won't get it, you
end up with a partial adhesion that is mostly just on one side of the
fabric. He should have used Polytac instead, applied directly to the
plywood to attach it properly.
No matter how much you know, you don't know it all; read the directions on
the can, or call Jim & Dondi.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 09:32 PM 2/8/04 -0500, you wrote:
>Andy....I went there and if I'm not mistaken it sounded like hipec is a gluey
>substance that does not require riveting or stitching to achieve the same
>strength!! Is this what Wittman used??...or misused? er....sumpin??
>
>George Randolph
>Firestar driver
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Strength |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>Mine
> seems to be fine after 17 years of flying, trailering, and setting up
> each time. I would not doubt that it could last at least another 17 years
> This little plane never sees the loads that a
> Mark III or bigger plane would see and therein probably lies the answer.
>
> Dennis (Souder) or Topher please comment on this .....
>
> Ralph
Ralph/All:
About 14 years ago, next month, a gentleman explained stress to me this way:
Everything starts out with a whole number. Each time it is
stressed/overstressed, a little bit is subtracted from that whole number.
Some point in time we get to a place when we ask our little airplane to do
something and it tells us no. It has been used up.
Some of us get there earlier than others. Continuous/frequent heavy loads,
i.e., quick pull ups, that a lot of Kolbers like to do, put about 3.5 to 4
+G's on the airframe. Lightly loaded wings are more supcetible to loads
caused by turbulence. Overloaded, high speeds put more and more stress on
them.
I believe any of the Kolbs built correctly, to begin with, kept in good
shape, i.e., frequent inspections to insure lateral bracing is present and
still doing its job on the leading edge of the wing, flown within the design
flight envelope, not knocked around too much on the ground, will last a very
long time. How long, I have not idea. Probably could not wear one out if
flown and maintained correctly.
Most folks do not use oil in the 4130 chromoly steel fuselage tubes. The
inside of these tubes are very supceptible to rust. All those pretty welds
on the airframe are not airtight. Only take a tiny pin hole to get water
inside and rust is quick to follow. I, personally, use tube seal in all the
airplanes I have built from the Ultrastar to the MKIII. I have also had the
opportunity to cut up the US and FS after I broke them. Tubes that did not
have tube seal were usually rusty inside. For what that info is worth.
My own personal opinion, folks.
Thinking outload again, :-)
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 42
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Stiffer wings are subjected to higher loads when they are hit by gusts, or
sudden pilot inputs. The flexible wings tend to give and don't get subject
to the high short duration spike in load that a stiff wing does. Think of
jumping on a trampoline versus a concrete floor. One is much harder on the
knees.
Flexwings, like most trikes and ladder construction sailcloth covered
ultralights are designed to have the fabric held in place by the pressure of
the wind. The battens just hold it in rough shape and keep it from flapping
so much. The wind actually holds it in position. A ridged wing like a kolb
holds the fabric in the shape using ribs or other structure.
Neither is stronger, or stiffer just because of it type. You could have a
bomb proof flex wing and a real week ridged wing. Some wings are stiff
spanwise but flexible chordwise. Underload these don't just bend but twist,
reducing AOA and relieving load by reducing lift as they twist. Most swept
wings do this.
Not a structures guy so a little out of my knowledge area.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
In a message dated 2/8/2004 5:30:52 PM Central Standard Time,
lgreen1@sc.rr.com writes:
> Subj: Re: Kolb-List: enclosure question
> Date: 2/8/2004 5:30:52 PM Central Standard Time
> From: lgreen1@sc.rr.com
> Reply-to: kolb-list@matronics.com
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
> Hi Alan I am reworking my original Firestar adding an enclosure and a 10 gal
> tank among other things. Although I am fabricating my enclosure from photos
> the nice folks at TNK has an enclosure kit for a reasonable cost.
> If you want I have photos of a lot of the guys enclosures if ya need to
> see some.
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ZackGSD@aol.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure question
>
Bryan, thanks for the reply and info; yes, please send me any photo's you
have. Were are you putting the 10 gal. tank?
do not archive
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
> >
> >i'm new to the list, so forgive me if i do not get this just right. i
> just
> >bought a one-owner 95 kold firestar in mint condition w 90 hrs. 503,
> single
> >card. i am a ga pilot and have had two ul in the past. two
> questions..1.. has
> >anyone enclosed an older firestar before with lexan? at least back to the
> >bulk-head, right before the 5 gal. tank? 2. has anyone every placed a
> small
> >extra tank right behind the seat, i.e., a 3 gal tank? would this change
> the cg to
> >do so, or is that right on the mark?
> >
> >alan
Message 44
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| Subject: | [ Mike Pierzina ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Subject: Vent/overflow
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/planecrazzzy@lycos.com.02.08.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
In a message dated 2/8/2004 4:45:16 PM Central Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> The early, single seat, 377 powered FS I fly has permanent enclosure back to
> rear of seat and a clear vinyl, Velcro attached removable enclosure from
> there back to the bulkhead in front of the main 5 gal tank. No heat but there
is
> no air leaks either. It also has a 5 gal. Jerry can shaped aux. tank behind
> the sling seat with an electric aux.. pump for transferring its fuel into
> main tank, from which the engine gets it nutrition.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
Thanks, Thom. Any photos by any chance? So, no problems with the CG putting
in the extra 5 gal behind the seat then. Sounds great.
Alan
N. Richland Hills, TX
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: enclosure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ZackGSD@aol.com
In a message dated 2/8/2004 2:46:09 PM Central Standard Time,
ul15rhb@juno.com writes:
> Subj: Re: Kolb-List: enclosure question
> Date: 2/8/2004 2:46:09 PM Central Standard Time
> From: ul15rhb@juno.com
> Reply-to: kolb-list@matronics.com
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
>
> Alan,
>
> I don't have full enclosure, but a long partial one. I also carry two 3
> gallon tanks behind the seat on a small bench that I built that go over
> the control cables. I have been carrying these tanks for years and it
> does not affect the flight performance that much. Yes, the Firestar is
> nose heavy and I have to hold back stick a little, but it's not a
> problem.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ul15rhb@juno.com/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ul15rhb@juno.com.12.10.2001/
>
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
> 17 years flying it
Thanks, Ralph. Any photo's per chance. Alan
Message 47
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
I MUST admit your dialog was very difficult for ME to follow, because I
don't even know what is meant by the most important word in your
dialog....wing "efficiency" If I had that explanation, I may have followed
it better.
wing efficiency is lift to drag ratio. A sailplane is very efficient at
making lift with a L/D of over 40. you can lift 40 pounds with one only
pound of thrust to overcome drag. Kolbs have L/D somewhere between 6 to 10
depending on airspeed. They tend to be optimized for lower speed flight,
having a better lift to drag at lower speed then at the high end. They tend
to hit a brick wall at some airspeed.
The changes I made should shift the plane very slightly to higher speed. If
I wanted to shift it even more I would tilt the tail boom down from its High
angle, change to a lower lift airfoil, and lower the wing incidence even
more. But I do want a very short field capable plane, so I only changed it
a bit.
If something I say isn't clear, don't worry about it because not much of
what I say is worth trying to figuring out anyway!
topher
Message 48
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 2/8/04 10:37:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tophera@centurytel.net writes:
>
> I MUST admit your dialog was very difficult for ME to follow, because I
>
> don't even know what is meant by the most important word in your
> dialog....wing "efficiency" If I had that explanation, I may have followed
> it better.....<< george R>>
>
>
> wing efficiency is lift to drag ratio. A sailplane is very efficient at
> making lift with a L/D of over 40. you can lift 40 pounds with one only
> pound of thrust to overcome drag. Kolbs have L/D somewhere between 6 to 10
> depending on airspeed. They tend to be optimized for lower speed flight,
> having a better lift to drag at lower speed then at the high end. They tend
> to hit a brick wall at some airspeed. << hmmmm very good....I AM actually a
> glider pilot and never heard it expressed quite that way....but it sure makes
> sense...to me L/D was just the ratio of 2 distances...what Length ya can go
> for how much ya Drop ....but your way considering Forces makes just as much
> sense.>>> GR
>
> The changes I made should shift the plane very slightly to higher speed. If
> I wanted to shift it even more I would tilt the tail boom down from its High
> angle, change to a lower lift airfoil, and lower the wing incidence even
> more. But I do want a very short field capable plane, so I only changed it
> a bit. << I have always thought the Kolb design had too much angle of
> incidence between the horizontal stabilizer and the wing, for "efficiency" or
drag
> minimization. I even asked Homer about that one time, and his answer as I
> recall was that it flew best at that high angle after much real world
> experimentation. Indeed, I think the Center of Gravity would have to be moved
back a
> little if the angle were reduced, or put another way, I think the range or
> window would become narrower, or less forgiving as the angle is reduced....just
> talkin. The Firestar is very stable for a large weight of pilot variation, and
> I think that range would be reduced if the angle would be reduced.>>GR
>
> If something I say isn't clear, don't worry about it because not much of
> what I say is worth trying to figuring out anyway!<< Absolutely wrong!
> ....er...maybe there is something wrong with ME, because I find your reasoning
> very understandable and logical>> GR
>
> topher
>
Do not archive
Message 49
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com> (by way of Matt
Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
>
>
>Wish I had had those aluminum angles on my old Firestar. :-)
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
So did Aubrey Radford.
I go them on mine - at least the front ones.
10668113.jpg
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