Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:38 AM - Re: B & S in Sweden (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford))
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Briggs in the air (Don Gherardini)
3. 06:36 AM - fly over Forest lake mn (Christopher Armstrong)
4. 07:24 AM - Aviation (Denny Rowe)
5. 07:33 AM - i don't know Dennis ... (artdog1512)
6. 07:37 AM - yes john h. ....... (artdog1512)
7. 07:39 AM - Re: Briggs in the air (Christopher Armstrong)
8. 07:41 AM - true (Paul Petty)
9. 08:18 AM - Don's modified Briggs .... (artdog1512)
10. 08:29 AM - Transition Time? (Jo and Larry)
11. 08:45 AM - Re: prop efficiency (was 'test pilot') (Jack & Louise Hart)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: virus? (William George)
13. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: prop efficiency (Ben Ransom)
14. 10:07 AM - 2-cycle engines (Dale Sellers)
15. 10:19 AM - Re: Aviation (jam'n)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: 2-cycle engines (Denny Rowe)
17. 10:47 AM - Re: Transition Time? (John Williamson)
18. 11:42 AM - Re: 2-cycle engines (John Hauck)
19. 12:23 PM - Re: 2-cycle engines (flykolb)
20. 03:08 PM - Re: 2-cycle engines (Dale Sellers)
21. 03:11 PM - Re: Geek Humor (Bob N.)
22. 04:22 PM - Re: Briggs in the air (garvelink)
23. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Robert Laird)
24. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Bob N.)
25. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Bill Vincent)
26. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (ronnie wehba)
27. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Larry Bourne)
28. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor--we gotta stop this (Bob N.)
29. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (ronnie wehba)
30. 09:24 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Larry Bourne)
31. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: Geek Humor (Christopher Armstrong)
32. 10:18 PM - Re: 2-cycle engines (Denny Rowe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: B & S in Sweden |
message of Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:56:31 -0800
--> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)
Interesting, Paul. In the first pic with the guy in the red
coveralls doing the refueling....wonder why he has his hand in the fuel
stream? Static wick? He's pouring fuel from a plastic container into a
plastic tank.....Sweden has a rep of being cold and dry which are
perfect conditions for static sparks.....
Mike in WV
FSII
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Briggs in the air |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Dennis,
Here is about all that briggs has on their website obn their new "Big Block"
engine..as they call it.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=75832
However, If you need it, I have been able to lay my hands on a Hp and Torque
chart for the 35 hp liqiud cooled. Just ask, and I will send.
Do NOt Archive
Don
G
Message 3
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| Subject: | fly over Forest lake mn |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Somebody did a fly over of forest lake around 5:00 pm Tuesday. It was a
beautiful yellow plane with dark checkerboard wing tips. Gave me a smile to
see whoever it was having some fun.
Topher
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Geek Humor
In his book, Sled Driver, SR-71 Blackbird pilot Brian Shul writes: "I'll
always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred one day as Walt (my
back-seater) and I were screaming across Southern California 13 miles
high. We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraft as
we entered Los Angeles airspace. Though they didn't really control us,
they did monitor our movement across their scope..
I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its ground speed.
"90 knots" Center replied.
Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center answered.
We weren't the only ones proud of our ground speed that day as almost
instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, 'Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests
ground speed readout."
There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the ground,
Dusty."
Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation this
was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my
back-seat. "Center, Aspen 20, you got a ground speed readout for us?"
There was a longer than normal pause . . . . "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots"
No further inquiries were heard on that frequency.
In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reported receiving a
request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000 ft). The incredulous controller,
with some disdain in his voice, asked, "How do you plan to get up to 60,000
feet?"
The pilot (obviously a sled driver), respoded, "We don't plan to go up to
it, we plan to go down to it." He was cleared.
The pilot was sitting in his seat and pulled out a .38 revolver. He placed
it on top of the instrument panel, and then asked the navigator, "Do you
know what I use this for?"
The navigator replied timidly, "No, what's it for?"
The pilot responded, "I use this on navigators who get me lost!"
The navigator proceeded to pull out a .45 and place it on his chart table.
The pilot asked, "What's that for?"
"To be honest sir," the navigator replied, "I'll know we're lost before you
will."
More tower chatter:
Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"
One day the pilot of a Cherokee 180 was told by the tower to hold short of
the runway while an MD80
landed. The MD80 landed, rolled out, turned around, and taxied back past the
Cherokee.
Some quick-witted comedian in the MD80 crew got on the radio and said, "What
a cute little plane. Did
you make it all by yourself?"
Our hero, the Cherokee pilot, shot back with: "I made it out of MD80 parts.
Another landing like that
and I'll have enough parts for another one."
There's a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing
because his single-engine jet
fighter was running "a bit peaked."
Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a
B-52 that had one engine shut down.
"Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach."
A student became lost during a solo cross-country flight. While attempting
to locate the aircraft on
radar, ATC asked, "What was your last known position?"
Student: "When I was number one for takeoff."
Taxiing down the tarmac, the 757 abruptly stopped, turned around and
returned to the gate. After an
hour-long wait, it finally took off.
A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?"
"The pilot was bothered by a noise he heard in the engine," explained the
flight attendant, "and it took us a while to find a new pilot."
"Flight 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 degrees."
"But Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"
"Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
Message 5
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| Subject: | i don't know Dennis ... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
Time: 02:47:54 PM PST US
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Briggs in the air
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder"
<flykolb@pa.net>
Paul,
Thanks for point that out!
Question for Don, is this the same engine you were
telling me about?
This would do a FF, but weight???
Awesome! I love it.
Dennis
i don't know about this Briggs engine on a FF, i
think there would be a CG problem ...... tim
do not archive
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 6
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| Subject: | yes john h. ....... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
Time: 03:22:13 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Briggs in the air
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Dennis/All:
That was the question I had for Paul P. Wondered how
much it weighed.
Also wonder if the builders may be stretching those
horses a little.
john h
yes john, they're stretching it.. very much. ... tim
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http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 7
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| Subject: | Briggs in the air |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Don,
Copy that over to me when you send it out. Do you have any idea about the
weight for both air and water cooled?
Thanks,
Topher
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Gherardini
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Briggs in the air
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Dennis,
Here is about all that briggs has on their website obn their new "Big Block"
engine..as they call it.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=75832
However, If you need it, I have been able to lay my hands on a Hp and Torque
chart for the 35 hp liqiud cooled. Just ask, and I will send.
Do NOt Archive
Don
G
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
"Flight 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 degrees."
"But Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"
"Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
That is actually a true story. And the controller was fired as a result of his
actions!
pp
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Don's modified Briggs .... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
Time: 04:49:57 PM PST US
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Briggs in the air
Dennis..and gang...
No Dennis..that is not the new briggs Vanguard.
........ It looks to me like that engine on that
MiniMax is an old version that
that
german fella sold and promoted. It is not anywhere
near 38 horse power.>>>>>
i'm aware of this engine. the horsepower claim is
that gentleman's own based on his calculations, not
any independent tests.....
In
its stock form it is 18 and 20...and from all I have
heard..they might
be
making 30 now. But they do say its durable..which I
believe entirely.>>>>>>
i don't know, i would be apprehensive about using
a "modified" engine on an aircraft. from what i've
read the heads have been shaved to increase
compression and of course the valves have been altered
to suit.
also, the max rpm has been increased about,approx.,
around, more or less 1500. there have been other
internal alterations that i don't remember.
as far as being "reliable", i would definately be
skeptical. Vanguard,Onan,Briggs,etc. engines are
reliable because they're "under-stressed". by
modifying such an engine your going from an
under-stessed situation to an "over-stressed" one.
drastically increasing RPM alone will put a heck of a
lot of stress on the engine, stress it wasn't made to
handle, not to mention the increase in heat the engine
would make. shaving the heads will increase
compression to a level the engine wasn't designed for.
i don't know, i think altering such engines the way
this guy has would be opening "Pandora's Box"...
BTW..the new one will weigh 123 lbs and be rated at 28
hp @3600, and a
liquid cooled Vanguard will soon be following rated at
33hp..also 123
lbs.
both 898cc's>>>>>
even if the engine made 40 or 50 hp it would still
be too heavy and you would have a CG problem. .......
tim
do not archive
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Transition Time? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
I am a low time ultralight pilot and my experience is in Quicks and the
like. A friend and I bought a Kolb Firestar II and it is about ready to fly.
I am having trouble finding transition training. Two question. 1. Anyone
know of any transition training available in the Dallas Ft Worth or
surronding areas? 2. If I can't find any what should I watch for and how
hard will the transition be? Any advise, pointers, etc greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
Larry
"Contrary to published reports... . the buck never stops"
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: prop efficiency (was 'test pilot') |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
Ben,
I agree with everything you have written. I believe all of these statements
have been made or developed on the concept of infinite availability of horse
power or torque. If one fixes the horsepower or torque that can be
generated at some given rpm, then other considerations come into play. Also
one has to consider what is happening at flight speeds.
I will finish installing an elevator position indicator today so that I can
evaluate the effect of different thrust line positions on pitch trim. I want to
see what change there will be to elevator position between level flight normal
and wide open cruise speeds with the thrust line at its present level and then
raising it about eight inches. When this study is complete, I will rotate
the Victor 1+ belt reducer to the straight up position, and run the 56 inch
IVO, with the engine set to max out at 6,000 rpm in flight and EGT running
at 1,200 degrees F or slightly above. I will take up and down wind speed
data by GPS with the throttle set for 5,200 and 6,000 rpm. Then I will
mount a 72 inch IVO and make the same speed runs.
It will take a while to get this done, but it is on my short list.
For your consideration, I have added some comments below.
>
>
>1. I've generally heard of prop tip rotational speed more than
>"forward tip speed" wrt prop efficiency. Forward tip speed does seem
>useful in picturing thrust made by the propellor disk, but that is also
>easily measured with a spring scale and tether in a static ground test.
> The trade-off here is a small disk (or air column) being moved at a
>high velocity relative to airplane speed versus a large disk/column
>being moved at a smaller (but still positive) speed relative to the
>airplane.
>
The reason I like propeller forward tip speed is that if, there was no drag
presented by the FireFly, this is the maximum speed it could go. If one
assumes some propeller efficiency, then one can have an idea of what the
total Firefly drag is at a given speed.
Static thrust is more a measure of engine hp and torque than of how fast the
aircraft will fly.
>
>In every case I've ever heard of, a larger disk generates more thrust.
>However, this too must have some upper limit as the airplane's speed
>increases, because, as the disk (prop diameter) gets bigger, at some
>point the prop pitch angle must be reduced or the engine will not have
>enf torque to spin fast enf to generate full power, and as well, one
>could reach the point of prop pitch flat enf that even at full or
>cruise power rpm, the pitch and prop's lift would be inadequate to
>increase airplane speed -- even if the plane itself had zero drag.
>
This is my basic point. If you pitch a long propeller to let the engine run
6,000 rpm and the propeller tip forward advance speed comes out to 55 mph
and the propeller is operating at 86 percent efficiency, the best possible
is a little over 47 mph and this does not take into account aircraft drag.
Now if you shorten the propeller so that you increase the pitch to absorb
the same amount of power, the forward advance tip speed may come out to 60
mph. Propeller efficiency would have to drop to 7 percent to equalize the
above performance, but assuming that propeller efficiency drops just half
way to 82.5 percent. This means that you will be able to top out at 47.5
mph.
>
>3. Cutting the prop diameter doesn't necessarily reduce prop drag. It
>reduces wetted area, but generally, shorter wings (or props) have a
>lower lift/drag ratio. This is because induced drag is, in part, due
>to tip losses (vortexes), which are a smaller percentage of total drag
>as the wing gets longer (higher aspect ratio, like a glider). Induced
>drag also increases with pitch angle (and lift), so the smaller
>diameter prop with higher pitch (aka angle of attack), could very well
>have higher drag than a larger diameter prop. I think it is the higher
>thrust of large diameter props, more than drag per se, that requires
>more engine torque.
The propeller tips move at higher velocity than those portions closer to the
hub. The drag associated with the rotation at the tips is proportional to
velocity squared, so as one cuts the propeller the drag drops rapidly and
you are cutting off that portion of the propeller that adds the most to the
total torque. This lets one re pitch the propeller until the total
drag/torque is the same and get a higher tip forward advance velocity.
I like to think of it as a conservation of momentum where the volume flow rate
of air passing through the propeller is constant. If we use a big
propeller, the velocity is going to be low, and if we use a smaller
propeller, the pitch has to be higher to move the same amount of air. And
the end result is the air velocity will be higher too.
All these thoughts may indicate what is happening, but in reality, I believe
the best way to find out what is best for your aircraft is to mount the longest
ground adjustable propeller, set the pitch to give optimum engine operating
conditions and see what you get. Then cut the propeller a little, and
repeat the process until your max cruise does not increase or you are
reaching a rate of climb that you find unacceptable. Then you have found
your sweet spot for your aircraft.
Warm enough to head for the airport to work on the elevator position indicator.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
Not your fault Bob. I recently got a returned undeliverable email that
I didn't send. What happens is that the virus gets into a PC and
harvests the email addresses, then sends the slime out from those
addresses. Macs have practically no issues like this, but your email
address is in lots of PC address books.
Bill George
Hawaii
Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin
Mac G4/Panther
do not archive
On Feb 17, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote:
> Time: 02:59:59 PM PST US
> From: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: virus?
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
>
> To all/any who may have rec'd a msg with a virus from me....well, dang,
> I don't know who coulda done it. I use Macs who usually don't get a
> virus, and my ISP culls out some 75-80 spam/scam/virus mgs a day before
> I get them. I do have a lot of basturds using my name/add taken from my
> web page. I rarely send an attachment except an occasional pix--and
> never without some text.
>
> Bob N.
>
> do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: prop efficiency |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Jack,
Your posts here have really helped me with a basic concept that I had
never paid enf attention to, and that is the issue of forward speed of
the prop tips. Also, after my lengthy post yesterday, I had
afterthoughts about my statement that increasing prop rotational speed,
e.g. with a different gearbox, might help things. I've never heard of
anyone in small aircraft trying to do that -- in fact most try to slow
the prop down and get to a bigger diameter prop. I asked an expert
about this yesterday (I work in the Mechanical & Aeronautical
Engineering department at UC Davis.) He said that there were probably
diminishing returns due to other factors (such as drag, as you suggest)
that likely come into play before that ideal tip rotational velocity is
reached. Anyway, no need for me to add anything further. Have fun
with your experiments. I'll post more about my own prop comparisons
when I get there too.
-Ben
Can't help but to throw in a footnote: I find it interesting that we
Rotax drivers use 2.58 reduction drives for a 6600 rpm max rated
engine, and the Subaru EJ folks like to use around 2.2 reduction drives
for 5650 rpm max rated engines. Both yield the same prop rpm.
--- Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
> Ben,
>
> I agree with everything you have written. I believe all of these
> statements
> have been made or developed on the concept of infinite availability
> of horse
> power or torque. If one fixes the horsepower or torque that can be
> generated at some given rpm, then other considerations come into
> play. Also
> one has to consider what is happening at flight speeds.
>
> I will finish installing an elevator position indicator today so that
> I can
> evaluate the effect of different thrust line positions on pitch trim.
> I want to
> see what change there will be to elevator position between level
> flight normal
> and wide open cruise speeds with the thrust line at its present level
> and then
> raising it about eight inches. When this study is complete, I will
> rotate
> the Victor 1+ belt reducer to the straight up position, and run the
> 56 inch
> IVO, with the engine set to max out at 6,000 rpm in flight and EGT
> running
> at 1,200 degrees F or slightly above. I will take up and down wind
> speed
> data by GPS with the throttle set for 5,200 and 6,000 rpm. Then I
> will
> mount a 72 inch IVO and make the same speed runs.
>
> It will take a while to get this done, but it is on my short list.
>
> For your consideration, I have added some comments below.
>
> >
> >
> >1. I've generally heard of prop tip rotational speed more than
> >"forward tip speed" wrt prop efficiency. Forward tip speed does
> seem
> >useful in picturing thrust made by the propellor disk, but that is
> also
> >easily measured with a spring scale and tether in a static ground
> test.
> > The trade-off here is a small disk (or air column) being moved at a
> >high velocity relative to airplane speed versus a large disk/column
> >being moved at a smaller (but still positive) speed relative to the
> >airplane.
> >
>
> The reason I like propeller forward tip speed is that if, there was
> no drag
> presented by the FireFly, this is the maximum speed it could go. If
> one
> assumes some propeller efficiency, then one can have an idea of what
> the
> total Firefly drag is at a given speed.
>
> Static thrust is more a measure of engine hp and torque than of how
> fast the
> aircraft will fly.
>
> >
> >In every case I've ever heard of, a larger disk generates more
> thrust.
> >However, this too must have some upper limit as the airplane's speed
> >increases, because, as the disk (prop diameter) gets bigger, at some
> >point the prop pitch angle must be reduced or the engine will not
> have
> >enf torque to spin fast enf to generate full power, and as well, one
> >could reach the point of prop pitch flat enf that even at full or
> >cruise power rpm, the pitch and prop's lift would be inadequate to
> >increase airplane speed -- even if the plane itself had zero drag.
> >
>
> This is my basic point. If you pitch a long propeller to let the
> engine run
> 6,000 rpm and the propeller tip forward advance speed comes out to 55
> mph
> and the propeller is operating at 86 percent efficiency, the best
> possible
> is a little over 47 mph and this does not take into account aircraft
> drag.
> Now if you shorten the propeller so that you increase the pitch to
> absorb
> the same amount of power, the forward advance tip speed may come out
> to 60
> mph. Propeller efficiency would have to drop to 7 percent to
> equalize the
> above performance, but assuming that propeller efficiency drops just
> half
> way to 82.5 percent. This means that you will be able to top out at
> 47.5
> mph.
>
> >
> >3. Cutting the prop diameter doesn't necessarily reduce prop drag.
> It
> >reduces wetted area, but generally, shorter wings (or props) have a
> >lower lift/drag ratio. This is because induced drag is, in part,
> due
> >to tip losses (vortexes), which are a smaller percentage of total
> drag
> >as the wing gets longer (higher aspect ratio, like a glider).
> Induced
> >drag also increases with pitch angle (and lift), so the smaller
> >diameter prop with higher pitch (aka angle of attack), could very
> well
> >have higher drag than a larger diameter prop. I think it is the
> higher
> >thrust of large diameter props, more than drag per se, that requires
> >more engine torque.
>
> The propeller tips move at higher velocity than those portions closer
> to the
> hub. The drag associated with the rotation at the tips is
> proportional to
> velocity squared, so as one cuts the propeller the drag drops rapidly
> and
> you are cutting off that portion of the propeller that adds the most
> to the
> total torque. This lets one re pitch the propeller until the total
> drag/torque is the same and get a higher tip forward advance
> velocity.
>
> I like to think of it as a conservation of momentum where the volume
> flow rate
> of air passing through the propeller is constant. If we use a big
> propeller, the velocity is going to be low, and if we use a smaller
> propeller, the pitch has to be higher to move the same amount of air.
> And
> the end result is the air velocity will be higher too.
>
> All these thoughts may indicate what is happening, but in reality, I
> believe
> the best way to find out what is best for your aircraft is to mount
> the longest
> ground adjustable propeller, set the pitch to give optimum engine
> operating
> conditions and see what you get. Then cut the propeller a little,
> and
> repeat the process until your max cruise does not increase or you are
>
> reaching a rate of climb that you find unacceptable. Then you have
> found
> your sweet spot for your aircraft.
>
> Warm enough to head for the airport to work on the elevator position
> indicator.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
>
> Jack & Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
I am relative new to two cycle engines except for my weed eater and chain saw.
What I don't understand is how manufactorers of snowmobiles, ski-dos, airboats
and other applications can put the same engines we are using, in those machines
and sell them to the public, off the floor and tell them to mix the gas and
oil together, put some in the tank and go and have fun. We, on the otherhand,
have to constantly worry and check to see if we are jetted correctly for temp
changes, humidity changes and altitude change.
The other folks using the same engines just run them.
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" <jghunter@nol.net>
chuckles.... thanks :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Aviation
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> Geek Humor
>
> In his book, Sled Driver, SR-71 Blackbird pilot Brian Shul writes:
"I'll
> always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred one day as Walt
(my
> back-seater) and I were screaming across Southern California 13 miles
> high. We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraft
as
> we entered Los Angeles airspace. Though they didn't really control us,
> they did monitor our movement across their scope..
>
> I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its ground speed.
>
> "90 knots" Center replied.
>
> Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center
answered.
>
> We weren't the only ones proud of our ground speed that day as almost
> instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, 'Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests
> ground speed readout."
>
> There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the ground,
> Dusty."
>
> Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation
this
> was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my
> back-seat. "Center, Aspen 20, you got a ground speed readout for us?"
>
> There was a longer than normal pause . . . . "Aspen, I show 1,742
knots"
>
> No further inquiries were heard on that frequency.
> In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reported receiving a
> request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000 ft). The incredulous controller,
> with some disdain in his voice, asked, "How do you plan to get up to
60,000
> feet?"
>
> The pilot (obviously a sled driver), respoded, "We don't plan to go up
to
> it, we plan to go down to it." He was cleared.
> The pilot was sitting in his seat and pulled out a .38 revolver. He
placed
> it on top of the instrument panel, and then asked the navigator, "Do you
> know what I use this for?"
>
> The navigator replied timidly, "No, what's it for?"
>
> The pilot responded, "I use this on navigators who get me lost!"
>
> The navigator proceeded to pull out a .45 and place it on his chart
table.
> The pilot asked, "What's that for?"
>
> "To be honest sir," the navigator replied, "I'll know we're lost before
you
> will."
> More tower chatter:
>
> Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
>
> Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"
> One day the pilot of a Cherokee 180 was told by the tower to hold short
of
> the runway while an MD80
> landed. The MD80 landed, rolled out, turned around, and taxied back past
the
> Cherokee.
>
> Some quick-witted comedian in the MD80 crew got on the radio and said,
"What
> a cute little plane. Did
> you make it all by yourself?"
>
> Our hero, the Cherokee pilot, shot back with: "I made it out of MD80
parts.
> Another landing like that
> and I'll have enough parts for another one."
> There's a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing
> because his single-engine jet
> fighter was running "a bit peaked."
>
> Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two behind
a
> B-52 that had one engine shut down.
>
> "Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach."
> A student became lost during a solo cross-country flight. While
attempting
> to locate the aircraft on
> radar, ATC asked, "What was your last known position?"
>
> Student: "When I was number one for takeoff."
> Taxiing down the tarmac, the 757 abruptly stopped, turned around and
> returned to the gate. After an
> hour-long wait, it finally took off.
>
> A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the
problem?"
>
> "The pilot was bothered by a noise he heard in the engine," explained
the
> flight attendant, "and it took us a while to find a new pilot."
> "Flight 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 degrees."
>
> "But Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"
>
> "Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 2-cycle engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
> I am relative new to two cycle engines except for my weed eater and chain
saw. What I don't understand is how manufactorers of snowmobiles, ski-dos,
airboats and other applications can put the same engines we are using, in
those machines and sell them to the public, off the floor and tell them to
mix the gas and oil together, put some in the tank and go and have fun. We,
on the otherhand, have to constantly worry and check to see if we are jetted
correctly for temp changes, humidity changes and altitude change.
> The other folks using the same engines just run them.
Dale,
All the other machines you mention are usually sent out on the rich side
(safe side) of the jetting specs. They do not require that the operator get
the maximum performance. Every motocross bike I ever bought required leaning
of the jetting to get peak performance.
In our aircraft we run at much higher power settings that tend to be more
demanding on the engines. Think about how little time weed wackers, sleds
or seadoos spend above 3/4 throttle. Our aircraft engines spend almost all
their time above 3/4 throttle.
Also we experience greater elevation changes in operation than anyone other
than cross country snowmobilers.
Hope this helps,
Denny Rowe
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Time? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Larry and everyone else that needs some training in an UL.
Here is the DFW area ultralight club website:
http://www.dfwliteflyers.org/home.htm
The only instructor I know of is:
Blue Max Ultralights, Contact: Paul D Wells,
Flight Instruction - U/L instruction in tail wheel or tricycle gear,
817-293-6080, Located at Propwash Airport, Justin, TX. northwest hangar.
Paul Wells.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: 518 hours, Rotax 912 ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 2-cycle engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
side
| (safe side) of the jetting specs. They do not require that the
operator get
| the maximum performance. | Denny Rowe
Denny/All:
I think you have described why we have two stroke problems on
ultralights and not so much on weed eaters, outboard motors, see doos,
ski doos, and I even saw a two stroke thing for making Margaritas.
Rotax engines are designed, built, and tuned, at the factory to run
right out of the box, just like the other two "stuff". One major
difference, we have to tune the prop to the engine and aircraft
correctly. The recommended way to do that is WOT, straight and level
flight, bump the rpm redline. This accomplishes several things:
1. It loads the prop correctly.
2. Puts the EGT in the green arc.
3. Provides the best combination climb and cruise.
4. Prevents seizures, head scratching, cursing, throwing and breaking
stuff.
Engines are designed to perform at specified rating for continuous
duty. Trying to get more power results in reducing reliability.
These engines are detuned from their land and water bound relatives.
Add an in flight adjustable prop into the two stroke equation and then
you really have your hands full.
I don't know why people have the "need" to squeeze more out of the two
stroke aircraft engine than design limits. I did the same thing as
soon as I got my first engine, a Cuyuna ULII02. First thing I did was
buy Mike Stratman's inflight adjustable main jet. Was cause of my
first engine out and bent Ultrastar.
I have a lot of two stroke engines: 25 hp Evinrude OB, weed eater,
chainsaw, leaf blower. Never do anything to them but abuse them, feed
them old fuel and Wal*Mart two stroke oil that I bought for my 582 in
1991. Still have 6 gal after giving away several gal to my neighbors.
Spark plug has never been out of the chainsaw, weed eater, or leaf
blower. Forgot what decade I bought them.
I think we, the ultralight two stroke engine
owner/operator/maintainer/tinkerer are our own worst enemies.
Actually, continuous duty operation may be easier and prolong life of
a two stroke more than on again, off again full power toying around.
The other category two strokes also have their share of failures. If
you doubt my word, go to the nearest marine and small engine repair
facility. See what you find there. Lots of crankshafts, main
bearings, pistons, etc., that died of the dreaded two stroke disease.
Take care,
john h
PS: Coffee break is over. Back to my "rat killing". New brakes and
drums on the 5th wheel from backing plates out. Rather be flying.
:-)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 2-cycle engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flykolb" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
The result of engine frailure is more extreme when flying then in these
other areas. We can not just pull over and stop if the engine fails!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 2-cycle engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
> I am relative new to two cycle engines except for my weed eater and chain
saw. What I don't understand is how manufactorers of snowmobiles, ski-dos,
airboats and other applications can put the same engines we are using, in
those machines and sell them to the public, off the floor and tell them to
mix the gas and oil together, put some in the tank and go and have fun. We,
on the otherhand, have to constantly worry and check to see if we are jetted
correctly for temp changes, humidity changes and altitude change.
> The other folks using the same engines just run them.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 2-cycle engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Denny,
Thanks, I wondered what the difference was.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2-cycle engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > I am relative new to two cycle engines except for my weed eater and
chain
> saw. What I don't understand is how manufactorers of snowmobiles,
ski-dos,
> airboats and other applications can put the same engines we are using, in
> those machines and sell them to the public, off the floor and tell them to
> mix the gas and oil together, put some in the tank and go and have fun.
We,
> on the otherhand, have to constantly worry and check to see if we are
jetted
> correctly for temp changes, humidity changes and altitude change.
> > The other folks using the same engines just run them.
>
> Dale,
> All the other machines you mention are usually sent out on the rich side
> (safe side) of the jetting specs. They do not require that the operator
get
> the maximum performance. Every motocross bike I ever bought required
leaning
> of the jetting to get peak performance.
> In our aircraft we run at much higher power settings that tend to be more
> demanding on the engines. Think about how little time weed wackers, sleds
> or seadoos spend above 3/4 throttle. Our aircraft engines spend almost all
> their time above 3/4 throttle.
> Also we experience greater elevation changes in operation than anyone
other
> than cross country snowmobilers.
> Hope this helps,
>
> Denny Rowe
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
The digital watch bit:
>Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
>Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"
may have come from my Jan '94 column in Aviation Digest, and reprinted
in Flying Tales of The Grey Baron, page 32:
Think About This
Ever wonder how the youngsters will make out in the future? First they
couldnt quite get the hang of tying their shoes, so along came Velcro.
Then they couldnt figure out the Velcro, so they walk around with shoes
untied. OK so far. Next came telling time. Trouble with big hands vs
little hands, and what they meant. Digital watches cured that lack of
cranial activity. Everythings OK until the controller calls traffic at
two oclock. Or directions say turn control in a clockwise direction.
Metric hammers next?
Wasn't Delta having problems landing at wrong airport about that time?
Bob N.
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Briggs in the air |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "garvelink" <link@cdc.net>
Man this is cool. how is he getting 38 hp out of that Briggs and Stratton
Does anyone have info on this. I run bs all the time and they are bullet
proof. Although dont know how they would be if you increased the hp.
Anyone have an idea how much this setup weights?
Srglink
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Briggs in the air
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> I was looking up some info on a HI-MAX air plane for a friend and ran
across this.
>
> This you gotta see.
>
> http://www.isonaircraft.com/gallery/petersson.htm
>
> pp
> do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
At 05:11 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
>Ever wonder how the youngsters will make out in the future? First they
>couldnt quite get the hang of tying their shoes, so along came Velcro.
>Then they couldnt figure out the Velcro, so they walk around with shoes
>untied. OK so far. Next came telling time. Trouble with big hands vs
>little hands, and what they meant. Digital watches cured that lack of
>cranial activity. Everythings OK until the controller calls traffic at
>two oclock. Or directions say turn control in a clockwise direction.
>Metric hammers next?
Not to mention, they'll wonder why you DIAL a telephone. :-)
-- R
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
I have an old dial phone out back in the barn. My grandkid, 10, could
not figger out how to make a call--she kept pressing the numbers!! About
the same as the bank robbers who hijacked a stick shift car--caught by
foot patrol while still jerking along in low.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> Hi Bob and Gang:
Last summer at the local Menard's Hardware store I asked the kid working
there (college summer help)
when the hammer drills will be in stock, he said I am not falling for that
joke there is no such thing as a
hammer drill. The kid did not believe me until I finally talked him into
looking it up in the computer !
P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches?
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
> Think About This
>
> Ever wonder how the youngsters will make out in the future? First they
> couldnt quite get the hang of tying their shoes, so along came Velcro.
> Then they couldnt figure out the Velcro, so they walk around with shoes
> untied. OK so far. Next came telling time. Trouble with big hands vs
> little hands, and what they meant. Digital watches cured that lack of
> cranial activity. Everythings OK until the controller calls traffic at
> two oclock. Or directions say turn control in a clockwise direction.
> Metric hammers next?
>
> Wasn't Delta having problems landing at wrong airport about that time?
>
> Bob N.
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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required 5, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches
I got me one ,,and you ain't gonna beleive this!!!, but it's totally
adjustable**********
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
>
> > Hi Bob and Gang:
>
> Last summer at the local Menard's Hardware store I asked the kid working
> there (college summer help)
> when the hammer drills will be in stock, he said I am not falling for
that
> joke there is no such thing as a
> hammer drill. The kid did not believe me until I finally talked him into
> looking it up in the computer !
>
> P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches?
>
> Bill Vincent
> Firestar II
> Upper Peninsula of Michigan
>
> > Think About This
> >
> > Ever wonder how the youngsters will make out in the future? First they
> > couldnt quite get the hang of tying their shoes, so along came Velcro.
> > Then they couldnt figure out the Velcro, so they walk around with shoes
> > untied. OK so far. Next came telling time. Trouble with big hands vs
> > little hands, and what they meant. Digital watches cured that lack of
> > cranial activity. Everythings OK until the controller calls traffic at
> > two oclock. Or directions say turn control in a clockwise direction.
> > Metric hammers next?
> >
> > Wasn't Delta having problems landing at wrong airport about that time?
> >
> > Bob N.
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Huh ! ! ! Hot stuff, huh ??............well MY crescent wrench is not only
fully adjustable, but it's metric AND standard. So there ! ! ! Big
Lar. Do not Archive. Please.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
>
>
> P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches
> I got me one ,,and you ain't gonna beleive this!!!, but it's totally
> adjustable**********
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> >
> > > Hi Bob and Gang:
>> >
> > P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches?
> >
> > Bill Vincent
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Geek Humor--we gotta stop this |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
And I have a pair of Metric pliers--calibrated in micro-googel (fig)newtons!
Bob N. fer goodness sake Do Not Archive
Message 29
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|
required 5, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
yea!!, but mine's also digital? ** so there again LAR!! got ya !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Huh ! ! ! Hot stuff, huh ??............well MY crescent wrench is not
only
> fully adjustable, but it's metric AND standard. So there ! ! ! Big
> Lar. Do not Archive. Please.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> N78LB Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
> >
> >
> > P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches
> > I got me one ,,and you ain't gonna beleive this!!!, but it's totally
> > adjustable**********
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent
<emailbill@chartermi.net>
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob and Gang:
> >> >
> > > P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches?
> > >
> > > Bill Vincent
>
>
Message 30
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Harrrr...........hokay, I give up. :-) PLEASE Do Not Archive.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> yea!!, but mine's also digital? ** so there again LAR!! got ya !
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
> >
> > Huh ! ! ! Hot stuff, huh ??............well MY crescent wrench is not
> only
> > fully adjustable, but it's metric AND standard. So there ! ! !
Big
> > Lar. Do not Archive. Please.
> >
> > Larry Bourne
> > Palm Springs, CA
> > Building Kolb Mk
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
My boss says "hand me that all sixteenths wrench." I say "isn't that an all
sixtyfourths wrench too?" He says "yah, but there isn't any such thing as
64th inch nuts." I say "there is after you get done with the all
sixteenth!" and I go and get him the proper box end wrench...
Topher
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Huh ! ! ! Hot stuff, huh ??............well MY crescent wrench is not only
fully adjustable, but it's metric AND standard. So there ! ! ! Big
Lar. Do not Archive. Please.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Geek Humor
>
>
> P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches
> I got me one ,,and you ain't gonna beleive this!!!, but it's totally
> adjustable**********
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net>
> >
> > > Hi Bob and Gang:
>> >
> > P.S. Do they make metric crescent wrenches?
> >
> > Bill Vincent
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 2-cycle engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
John H. wrote:
:
I even saw a two stroke thing for making Margaritas.
John,
That sounds like my kind of machine
Two stroke engines and Margaritas are two of my favorite things in this
world, just not a good idea to use em both at the same time. :-)
Dennis Rowe
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