Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - Re: Defense of the lightweight trailer (GeoR38@aol.com)
2. 04:19 AM - sports rules (Ted Cowan)
3. 04:29 AM - Re: Final Flight Firestar 1990 (GeoR38@aol.com)
4. 05:20 AM - Re: sports rules (Thom Riddle)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: briggs for UL's .... (Thom Riddle)
6. 05:41 AM - Re: briggs for UL's .... (Thom Riddle)
7. 06:05 AM - update (Paul Petty)
8. 08:02 AM - 5-ribs and 503's (ul15rhb@juno.com)
9. 08:05 AM - Re: Defense of the lightweight trailer (H MITCHELL)
10. 08:21 AM - SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (Fackler, Ken)
11. 08:29 AM - kolb steam engines (boyd young)
12. 12:23 PM - Re: SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (Jim Ballenger)
13. 01:01 PM - Addition to web site (Mike Pierzina)
14. 01:32 PM - Re:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (Mike Pierzina)
15. 02:39 PM - Re: update (Don Gherardini)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: Re:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (Duncan McBride)
17. 04:04 PM - Re: update (James and Cathy Tripp)
18. 05:21 PM - Gas tanks (Terry)
19. 05:45 PM - Re: Re:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (Richard Pike)
20. 06:10 PM - Re: Final Flight Firestar 1990 (John Hauck)
21. 06:12 PM - Fw: Final Flight Firestar 1990 (John Hauck)
22. 06:25 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (John Hauck)
23. 06:53 PM - longerons (Clay Stuart)
24. 07:21 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (Eugene Zimmerman)
25. 07:25 PM - Re: Fw: Final Flight Firestar 1990 (Eugene Zimmerman)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (John Hauck)
27. 07:35 PM - Re: longerons (Eugene Zimmerman)
28. 07:47 PM - Re: SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank (RPHanks@aol.com)
29. 08:11 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (Richard Swiderski)
30. 08:27 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (Eugene Zimmerman)
31. 09:43 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Defense of the lightweight trailer |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/2/04 11:08:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mitchmnd@msn.com
writes:
>
> My trailer was light in weight because I designed it to be towed by a small
> truck. Duh!
>
> The folks that did the fabrication were not concerned about some nitwit
> loading it with tons of furniture. It's an airplane trailer!
>
> The wind is not likely to blow my trailer over when it's parked. That's what
> those tie-down rings are for. Duh!
>
> Those moving van/car haulers/horse trailers have very heavy springs and ride
> like a tank when empty or carrying loads weighing only a fraction of their
> capacity. Of course they will work but I did not need all that surplus
> capacity or weight.
>
> I have hauled my plane on long trips, in severe winds and the trailer has
> never shown any sign of blowing over, going airborne or floating away. My
> boat/trailer would really make many of my critics happy. It weighs 4 tons and
the
> last thing I'll ever have to worry about is it blowing away. Maybe I should
> put the plane on my boat trailer ....
>
> My regret are that the trailer should have a fold down door/loading ramp. As
> built it has cam-lock, vertical hinge doors and I have to use special ramps
> for loading. Elegant but extra parts extra work. I also thought about double
> axles. More money, more weight but still not a bad idea.
>
> Flame away, I'm gone,
>
> Duane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL
>
>
> do not archive
>
Duane, I really enjoyed reading this post.....showed some REAL humor!!
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <tcowan1917@direcway.com>
It seems I have misread or misinterpreted or something concering the new
'grandfather in' clauses in the sports pilots rule. My question is this:
If I were a registered 'pilot' with and organization as USUA, have kept logs
of my flights and times and places for the last five years, have plenty of
'air' time, if I take an FAA writen exam (whatever it is going to be)
possibly a performance test or whatever, I will or could be 'grandfathered
in' for a sports license. Now, I have been told that you have to have log
time in a 'registered' USUA plane, one that has been registered with the
USUA or whatever in order for your logs to count. Wow, that is like
admitting that we used an unlawful aircraft to commit aviation. Can someone
please clarify? Being old has caused my memory to fade and I cannot find
the rules handy. thanks. Ted
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Final Flight Firestar 1990 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/3/04 1:53:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
biglar@gogittum.com writes:
> Hi All:
> >
> >I am slowly getting a little be smarter in my old age.
> >
> >Discovered I can capture frames off the old VHS tape of the "wing
> >pulling" of my Firestar. Go through these files in order to see the
> >loop, then keep going and see the results of many, many loops, hours,
> >heavy loads, sub-warp speeds, and lots of rough air:
> >
> >http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Firestar%20Crash/
> >
> >I appoligize for the size and quality of the pics, but the best I can
> >do for the moment. Perhaps I will get even more enlightened before I
> >become totally useless to humanity.
> >
> >john h
> >
> >DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
John, all
Neat pictures.....very educational.....but bring 2 questions to my mind:
1. why did your leading edge bend up?....was it on Both wings?
2. How could such a little weeee canopy save such a biiiiiig plane?....was
the landing very hard?
George Randolph
firestar driver from The Villages
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: sports rules |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
The following link explains the issue.
http://www.sportpilot.org/nprm/student_pilot_cert.html
Thom in Buffalo
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: briggs for UL's .... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Here is a link in English about this basic engine...20hp in standard form but "up to 60hp on nitro". http://www.briggsracing.com/racing_engines/vanguard.html
Thom in Buffalo
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: briggs for UL's .... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
And here is Honda's engine competing with the B&S V-Twin
http://www.honda-engines.com/gx670.htm
Thom in Buffalo
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
Had a little time to add to my web site this morning. Hope it may help a future
builder. This is a time consuming process.I'm off to the airport for some flying
and maintenance on the Cessna:-) If you would like to be contacted off list
when I have updated my site, send me an e-mail and type "Add me" in the subject
line. Enjoy..
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
John H and gang,
Along the same lines as George's question, I never got the word whether
the leading edge bent out of place or did it actually break to the point
where the aluminum tore away in the middle of the tube (I can't tell if
the damage was due to ground impact in your pics). Somehow I cannot see
how the leading edge would push in towards the spar unless the attaching
nose rib gussets got bent. They are held in place by 2 rivets per rib as
I recall.
If the leading edge tube got ripped, that .028" wall thickness of that
tube may explain why it gave way. All of the older Firestar's have the
.028" LE tube, unless it was replaced with a .035" tube, and this might
pose a problem if a larger engine like a 50 hp 503 is used.
I'm curious how many pilots on this list have 503's on their 5-rib
Original Firestar's without any modifications to the wings?
I was contacted by a fellow yesterday who is interested in buying an
Original Firestar powered by a 503. I wonder how many of them are out
there? For some of you guys that are familiar with the Original
Firestar's, what are your opinions on this?
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
Rotax 447
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:29:17 EST GeoR38@aol.com writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/3/04 1:53:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> biglar@gogittum.com writes:
>
> > Hi All:
> > >
> > >I am slowly getting a little be smarter in my old age.
> > >
> > >Discovered I can capture frames off the old VHS tape of the
> "wing
> > >pulling" of my Firestar. Go through these files in order to see
> the
> > >loop, then keep going and see the results of many, many loops,
> hours,
> > >heavy loads, sub-warp speeds, and lots of rough air:
> > >
> > >http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Firestar%20Crash/
> > >
> > >I appoligize for the size and quality of the pics, but the best I
> can
> > >do for the moment. Perhaps I will get even more enlightened
> before I
> > >become totally useless to humanity.
> > >
> > >john h
> John, all
> Neat pictures.....very educational.....but bring 2 questions to my
> mind:
>
> 1. why did your leading edge bend up?....was it on Both wings?
>
> 2. How could such a little weeee canopy save such a biiiiiig
> plane?....was
> the landing very hard?
>
> George Randolph
> firestar driver from The Villages
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Defense of the lightweight trailer |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:05:35 -0500
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd@msn.com>
Hello George,
'Great to hear from you. I still owe you for that really good breakfast we had
in Talmadge. I have intended to E-mail you to see if you would give me a chance
to reciprocate. Maybe at S$F ?
Gene Ledbetter, who trailers his plane down here from Cincinnati every January
and I will be at S$F again this year. We have reservations for the 14th to 16th
in Bradenton.
You must have your roots down pretty well by now. We sold our big house (work shop
and all) and moved into a new "more manageable" house in town. For a while
I thought that move would be the end of me. I hope your move was less traumatic.
Are you still teaching greenhorns about engineering arithmetic? Where are you flying
these days? ?Estudia espanole ahora? Usas todas dias?
Stay in touch,
Duane
----- Original Message -----
From: GeoR38@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Defense of the lightweight trailer
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/2/04 11:08:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mitchmnd@msn.com
writes:
>
> My trailer was light in weight because I designed it to be towed by a small
> truck. Duh!
>
> The folks that did the fabrication were not concerned about some nitwit
> loading it with tons of furniture. It's an airplane trailer!
>
> The wind is not likely to blow my trailer over when it's parked. That's what
> those tie-down rings are for. Duh!
>
> Those moving van/car haulers/horse trailers have very heavy springs and ride
> like a tank when empty or carrying loads weighing only a fraction of their
> capacity. Of course they will work but I did not need all that surplus
> capacity or weight.
>
> I have hauled my plane on long trips, in severe winds and the trailer has
> never shown any sign of blowing over, going airborne or floating away. My
> boat/trailer would really make many of my critics happy. It weighs 4 tons and
the
> last thing I'll ever have to worry about is it blowing away. Maybe I should
> put the plane on my boat trailer ....
>
> My regret are that the trailer should have a fold down door/loading ramp. As
> built it has cam-lock, vertical hinge doors and I have to use special ramps
> for loading. Elegant but extra parts extra work. I also thought about double
> axles. More money, more weight but still not a bad idea.
>
> Flame away, I'm gone,
>
> Duane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL
>
>
> do not archive
>
Duane, I really enjoyed reading this post.....showed some REAL humor!!
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages
Message 10
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| Subject: | SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Fellow Kolbers:
My Mark II has two five-gallon fuel tanks sitting side-by-side just behind
the pilot compartment, probably very much in the same place that most of you
have fuel tanks.
During the refit of my new engine, the mechanic discovered that my
starboard-side fuel tank had apparently had a leak patched (poorly) by the
former owner. I've elected to replace the tank for safety.
The tanks are semi-transluscent plastic and approximately 10" x 10" x 13"
(and a smidge). The filler hole is placed off-center.
So my question is: What are your recommendations for a source to purchase
one of these?
Many thanks for all responses and feel free to email me direct at:
kfackler@ameritech.net.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 11
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<ronoy@shentel.net>
| Subject: | kolb steam engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
I volenteer at the golden spike sight.....they still use steam engines, the jupitor
and the 119......... every once in a while they have to crall into the
combustion chamber and scrape off the carbon..... sounds like the problem
has been here for a long time and will probably remain for an other while. seems
the only thing that has changed is the size of the combustion chamber. or
maybe i shoud use the proper name...... firebox....
boyd
do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Ken
Call TNK company. I know they have the tanks because I have ordered them
from them.
Jim Ballenger
Flying a FS KXP 447
Building a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
>
> Fellow Kolbers:
>
> My Mark II has two five-gallon fuel tanks sitting side-by-side just behind
> the pilot compartment, probably very much in the same place that most of
you
> have fuel tanks.
>
> During the refit of my new engine, the mechanic discovered that my
> starboard-side fuel tank had apparently had a leak patched (poorly) by the
> former owner. I've elected to replace the tank for safety.
>
> The tanks are semi-transluscent plastic and approximately 10" x 10" x 13"
> (and a smidge). The filler hole is placed off-center.
>
> So my question is: What are your recommendations for a source to purchase
> one of these?
>
> Many thanks for all responses and feel free to email me direct at:
> kfackler@ameritech.net.
>
> -Ken Fackler
> Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
> Rochester MI
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Addition to web site |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Guys,
I added stage # 26 to my web site...
It's a few misc. pictures...
The last one is my bird sitting in the Garage...
Waiting for this snow to melt so I can push out my plane...extend the wings and
do things like ,Break-in my engine , make a gap seal , Weight & Balance...etc
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
---
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Ken,
Kolb sells those tanks... there close to $100 bucks , I'll bet that
repair job is looking better already....
I've seen those jugs somewhere else , but I can't find them... so I was
stuck ordering it thru Kolb. I paid $125 for the tank & fuel pick up tube.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
---
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Hey Paul.....you are doing a bang up Job on that website pard!
I really like the pics...good quality...and the last one...of your
hand!....hehe....every airplane builder has a fingerprint with a dot or 2 on
them somewhere..now you know how they get em!........yours matchs mine
pretty close!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
The tank costs less. It's the pickup hardware that gets pricey.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: RE:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
>
> Hey Ken,
> Kolb sells those tanks... there close to $100 bucks , I'll bet
that repair job is looking better already....
>
> I've seen those jugs somewhere else , but I can't find them... so
I was stuck ordering it thru Kolb. I paid $125 for the tank & fuel pick up
tube.
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
>
> ---
> My Web Site:
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap
> and build your wings on the way down...
> Gotta Fly...
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Paul,
Your web site is looking real good. If I weren't so computer stupid, I would
post the 200 plus pictures I've taken of my project. Maybe I'll get smart
after I'm done building and have some free time. Keep up the good work.
James Tripp
FSII, 80% done
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: update
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Had a little time to add to my web site this morning. Hope it may help a
future builder. This is a time consuming process.I'm off to the airport for
some flying and maintenance on the Cessna:-) If you would like to be
contacted off list when I have updated my site, send me an e-mail and type
"Add me" in the subject line. Enjoy..
>
> Paul Petty
> Building Ms. Dixie
> Kolbra/912UL/Warp
> www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Ken,
The plastic five gallon tanks are a common container for chemicals.
Farmers around my area buy their chemicals for cleaning and other uses
around the dairy farm that come in these containers. Ask around the ag.
supply store in your area if you have one, then go find a farmer that
has an empty. They are not unique just to Ul aviation and are a common
item used for many things.
Good luck finding one,
Terry - FireFly # 95
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE:SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
You might want to call Lockwood Aviation, 1-800-527-6829, and ask them
about their fuel tank, part # FT5-120. The cap that goes with it is FT5-120C.
Price of the tank is $25, the cap is $2. According to the measurements in
their catalog, (9.5" X 9.5" X 13.5") it would appear to be the same as the
5 gallon tank that came with my MKIII kit. Might be worth asking about.
Or, all I ever used mine original Kolb tanks for was to go to the gas
station and bring fuel home, they are sitting out in the hangar now. Send
me a couple 5 or 6 gallon plastic gas cans to replace them with, and I'll
stick mine in what ever boxes you used and send them to you for the price
of shipping. They have been around since 1996, appear to be in normal
condition, (dusty, smell like mogas, etc.) and are kept out of the sun, so
this is a strictly an as-is deal. And if you don't want them, no hard feelings.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 04:31 PM 3/7/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
>
>Hey Ken,
> Kolb sells those tanks... there close to $100 bucks , I'll bet
> that repair job is looking better already....
>
> I've seen those jugs somewhere else , but I can't find them... so
> I was stuck ordering it thru Kolb. I paid $125 for the tank & fuel pick
> up tube.
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
>
>---
>My Web Site:
>http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
>Sometimes you just have to take the leap
>and build your wings on the way down...
> Gotta Fly...
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Final Flight Firestar 1990 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|
| 2. How could such a little weeee canopy save such a biiiiiig
plane?....was
| the landing very hard?
|
| George Randolph
George/Gang:
To answer the first question, the leading edge bent up because the
main rib noses failed to do their job. Most of the upward pressure on
the wing is being carried by those little rib noses. The failure
started between the 2d and 3d OB ribs, at the point the .028" leading
edge is drilled top and bottom for the center false ribs. That
initiated the failure. That was the detonator. As it came up it
pulled the main rib noses, along with all the false ribs, up and to
the rear as far back as the main spar. Failures of the right wing
first, then left wing were almost simultaneous. Like, boom/boom. Two
very quick explosions. There was no ground damage to the wings what
you see in those pictures are what the wing structure looked like
after I got the aircraft home and removed the fabric from each wing.
Both wings were twins, identical damage to each, in the same places.
Thus, the reason I did a little work to make my rib noses a little
stronger in that area, and also increase lateral bracing.
To qualify again, for the umpteenth time, the reason I do what I do to
my airplanes is because of the way I fly and the places I fly.
Period. I do not recommend anyone else doing this to their Kolb
aircraft. I don't recommend anything, period.......
I think the Jim Handbury Hand Deployed Parachute is a 28' diameter
canopy. If I am wrong, Bro Jim can correct me. The military T10
personnel parachute we jumped in the Army used 32' diamter canopies.
IIRC the average rate of decent for a paratrooper with his equipment
is 18' a second. The two parachute recoveries I made with my Jim
Handbury were equipment jumps. Number one, I had an Ultrastar
strapped to me. Number two (with the same parachute), I had my
Firestar strapped to me.
I did not hit the ground too hard on the first deployment. Reason:
Timing of the occilation under the canopy with I had nothing to do
with. I was mearly a sand bag on both deployments. Second deployment
I was slowed down during penetration of the hardwoods. Nose of FS was
6" off the ground when it was all over.
George, I had enough parachute to save my life twice, even though it
was small. :-)
Here is a picture, dusty frame and all, that I took down off the wall
and stuck in the scanner. It was taken soon after I lit in the
hardwood trees near Addison Airport, Alabama. Please pay particular
attention to the leading edge of the right wing. It appears and is
about 18" thick. Both wings failed identically. Really screws up
ones flying. Notice the parachute and parachute bridal are still up
in the trees. The bridal is the white (actually light yellow) line
going up into the trees from the front of the center section. You can
see the bottom of the left bow tip under the right wing. It failed
into this position some time after I entered the trees. As far as I
can tell from the video, both wings and lift struts were in their
respective normal locations under the full canopy prior to
disappearing into trees. This picture was framed for a UL BFI at our
local airport. The inscription reads:
11 March 1990
Push the envelope,
Pay the price.
JR Hauck
He refused to take it because he was trying to run a business and this
picture would possibly run off some of his customers. The reason I
went to the trouble to put this thing together to give him was because
he was doing aerobatics, of sorts, with a two place Eipper
Quicksilver. I did not get his attention. Brought the picture home.
Put it on my wall in my living room right next to the fireplace to
remind me of the same thing: Push the envelope, pay the price.
I think this email will help answer some of Ralph Burlingame's
questions in the next msg.
john h
Message 21
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| Subject: | Final Flight Firestar 1990 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
wall
| and stuck in the scanner. It was taken soon after I lit in the
| hardwood trees near Addison Airport, Alabama. | john h
Hi Gang:
Forgot the url:
http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Firestar%20Crash/Push%20and%20Pay
john h
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Ralph/Gang:
I'll try to answer your questions, Ralph.
| Along the same lines as George's question, I never got the word
whether
| the leading edge bent out of place or did it actually break to the
point
| where the aluminum tore away in the middle of the tube (I can't tell
if
| the damage was due to ground impact in your pics).
The leading edge tube did not break, tear, or rip in two. It simply
failed up in the exact middle of the number 2 and 3 main rib bays
where the center false rib is attached with one 1/8" rivet top and
bottom. Right and left wings failed identically and and almost
simultaneously.
| Somehow I cannot seehow the leading edge would push in towards the
spar unless the attaching
| nose rib gussets got bent. They are held in place by 2 rivets per
rib as
| I recall.
Nose rib gussets held as designed. They really had nothing to do with
the failure. The failure is described in my first paragraph above.
The nose ribs were pulled out of column, inward, as the leading edge
failed upward. The top tube of the rib nose, which is already bent to
form the air foil then failed, collapsed. As the leading edge comes
up, the fabric on top of the nose rib loses its tension and no longer
assist the nose rib in staying together.
| If the leading edge tube got ripped, that .028" wall thickness of
that
| tube may explain why it gave way. All of the older Firestar's have
the
| .028" LE tube, unless it was replaced with a .035" tube, and this
might
| pose a problem if a larger engine like a 50 hp 503 is used.
The leading edge tube did not get ripped. It got tired and failed.
I was working on obtaining a new 503 to install on my Original 5 Main
Rib Firestar just prior to Cuz'n P'fer's distruction.
| I'm curious how many pilots on this list have 503's on their 5-rib
| Original Firestar's without any modifications to the wings?
Knowing what I know now about my FS, no way would I install a 503 on
it.
| I was contacted by a fellow yesterday who is interested in buying an
| Original Firestar powered by a 503. I wonder how many of them are
out
| there? For some of you guys that are familiar with the Original
| Firestar's, what are your opinions on this?
|
| Ralph Burlingame
Ralph, to answer the last paragraph: "Not very smart."
Take care, fly safe,
john h
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Everyone must be flying because I stirred up no debate about covering my
Xtra fuselage with 0.020 aluminum by drilling 1/8" holes about every 4" in
the frame.
Will the holes weaken the longerons? Surely. Will the aluminum skin make up
the difference in strength? I don't know. If the longerons are weakened,
is it a good thing or not? I don't know, because in a crash, some crumpling
is desirable. How much crumpling? I don't know. If the fuselage is
weakened, is this a problem at normal flight speeds and maneuvers? I won't
think so.
In the event of a crash, what is most likely to cause you harm? I would
guess that the engine behind you would be the most dangerous object around.
A local gyrocopter pilot was killed last year after an engine-out forced
landing. Reports I heard were that the Subaru engine behind him caused his
fatal injuries.
Maybe Kolb will crash test some remote controlled planes for research.
Comments?
Clay Stuart
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
John , what was your estimated airspeed at the time of your leading edge
failure?
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Final Flight Firestar 1990 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
John I am not able to view the picture. It is in source code format????????
John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> | Here is a picture, dusty frame and all, that I took down off the
> wall
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> Forgot the url:
>
> http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Firestar%20Crash/Push%20and%20Pay
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
edge
| failure?
Eugene Zimmerman
EZ/All:
Indicated airspeed at time of failure was 75 mph. Aircraft was flying
straight and level, normal cruise power. Air was turbulent at that
particular day.
john h
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Clay Stuart wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
> Everyone must be flying because I stirred up no debate about covering my
> Xtra fuselage with 0.020 aluminum by drilling 1/8" holes about every 4" in
> the frame.
snip
Clay,
Besides the effect of all the rivit holes the problem with small dents
from a knee or such hitting the aluminum would soon make an unsightly
mess of the plane. Fabric is much more resilient and forgiving that way.
I've seen planes built with sheet aluminum covering the leading edge and
a small bump can produce an unsightly ding that is nearly impossible to
remove completely so that it cannot be seen.
I would advise against it.
EZ
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: SEEKING a 5-gallon plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: RPHanks@aol.com
Hi Ken,
I ordered a replacement tank from TNK a couple years ago. If you don't get
the hardware, the bare tank is only about $20 plus shipping. I'm currently
using a six gallon tank that fits the same hole, but is taller by a few inches.
I installed one last winter and have 90hrs of use on it so far with no
problems. Here is the link to the place I bought it from:
Cubitainer and Hedpak Combination Packaging
In case the link doesn't work here is the address:
http://www.ba-industrial.com/hedpak.htm
Scroll down their page to the six gallon Hedpack (part# 049-4440) I paid
$12.95 shipped all the way to Oregon from Oklahoma. These tanks are a little
thinner walled and less stiff than the Kolb tanks. That isn't a problem in my
KXP, but might be something to consider depending on how the tanks are mounted
in the MarkII.
By the way, don't go buy one of those similar sized water containers at the
local mart store. I put one in that was the same size and color, hoping it
would work. It cracked at one of the seams after nine hours. Lucky for me it
decided to fail on the ground and not in the air. The Hedpak tank I'm using now
is certified for shipping harzardous liquids and you can't beat the price. I
can send pictures if you would like.
Hope this helps
Roger in Oregon
Message 29
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| Subject: | 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Ralph,
Everybody has an opinion, here's mine: I put about 350hr on my
UltraStar which has a wing essentially identical to the original FireStar.
My engine was a modified high performance Cuyuna which put out about 45hp.
I did a pull test on it along side my buddy's single carb 503 Kolb TwinStar.
With my prop set in the cruise setting, I was getting the same pounds of
thrust (275). Because I inlaid some p-tips on my prop, I believe I was
utilizing my hp better. At any rate, my airframe/wing was seeing the same
thrust as a 48hp 503. I therefore would think that a 503 on an early FS is
not unthinkable, especially if the craft was flown intelligently.
Additionally, I made up some plans to use 2 Kawasaki 340 engines turning 2
counter rotating props, to put on my UltraStar. Using a derated
configuration they put out 30hp each. I sat down at Sun & Fun with Homer &
showed him what I was planning to do. I thought he would jump all over me.
Instead he asked me a lot of questions. This gave me some hope and the
nerve to ask him the big question. I asked him, if I did not use full power
in straight & level, did not exceed the recommended speed envelope, & only
used full throttle on climb out, would the UltraStar handle the setup? He
looked down, scratched his head, smiled, & said it would handle the power in
climb out, but not in level flight. I did not ask him if he would endorse
the project because I knew he wouldn't. If I had an early FS & had the
choice of a 447 or a 503, I'd put on the 503 without blinking an eye,
because I would know that it would be me who controlled how fast the plane
would go, not the engine. If I was the designer, I'd limit the plane to a
447. ...Richard Swiderski
| I'm curious how many pilots on this list have 503's on their 5-rib
| Original Firestar's without any modifications to the wings?
| I was contacted by a fellow yesterday who is interested in buying an
| Original Firestar powered by a 503. I wonder how many of them are
out
| there? For some of you guys that are familiar with the Original
| Firestar's, what are your opinions on this?
|
| Ralph Burlingame
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Richard Swiderski wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
>
> Ralph,
>
> Everybody has an opinion, here's mine:
DO NOT ARCHIVE
You guys make me nervous. My five rib Firestar with a 377 will do over
90 straight and level and I'm no light weight. Should I be building new
seven rib wings?
EZ
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| If I had an early FS & had the
| choice of a 447 or a 503, I'd put on the 503 without blinking an
eye,
| because I would know that it would be me who controlled how fast the
plane
| would go, not the engine. If I was the designer, I'd limit the
plane to a
| 447. ...Richard Swiderski
Richard/All:
The US and the Firestar were designed for 35 HP. Homer would not sell
me a 40 HP 447 when I got my FS kit.
I hope some of you on the Kolb List have paid attention to some of my
mistakes over the past 20 years, and hopefully you will learn as much
from them as I have.
Take care,
john h
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