Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: longerons (Larry Bourne)
2. 02:18 AM - Special Guest & Poker Run @ False River, LA - March 13th (BICUM@aol.com)
3. 05:58 AM - Virus: kolbflyer@juno.com (Fackler, Ken)
4. 07:07 AM - leading edge fabric (ul15rhb@juno.com)
5. 07:40 AM - Re: leading edge fabric (John Hauck)
6. 08:54 AM - Aircraft Insurance (John Hauck)
7. 09:38 AM - leading edge failure (Christopher Armstrong)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: longerons (Christopher Armstrong)
9. 09:49 AM - Re: leading edge failure (ul15rhb@juno.com)
10. 09:49 AM - Wings and Things (John Hauck)
11. 10:04 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (bryan green)
12. 10:31 AM - 2024 Sheet vs 6061 and Other (John Hauck)
13. 10:47 AM - Re: leading edge failure (John Hauck)
14. 12:40 PM - Re: leading edge failure (Christopher Armstrong)
15. 01:00 PM - Re: leading edge failure (John Hauck)
16. 02:49 PM - Digital camera to the rescue (Richard Pike)
17. 02:51 PM - Re: longerons (Guy Morgan)
18. 02:58 PM - FOUND: Fuel tank (Fackler, Ken)
19. 03:17 PM - Two Place Ultralight Crash/Fatalities (John Hauck)
20. 03:49 PM - Re: Two Place Ultralight Crash/Fatalities (Duncan McBride)
21. 04:22 PM - New Twist Regarding Airport Insurance (jerb)
22. 05:00 PM - Re: FS Prop (James and Cathy Tripp)
23. 05:29 PM - W&B Question (Paul Petty)
24. 06:25 PM - Re: W&B Question (bryan green)
25. 06:39 PM - Re: W&B Question (Christopher Armstrong)
26. 08:00 PM - Re: W&B Question (Don Gherardini)
27. 08:00 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (possums)
28. 08:11 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (possums)
29. 08:13 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (John Hauck)
30. 08:20 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (possums)
31. 08:36 PM - Sun-n-Fun rules (Don Gherardini)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Thought that comes to mind is to attach the skins with Adell clamps. No
holes in the longerons that way...............and my feeling is that
possible rust from water entering the holes would be a bigger long term
factor than the holes weakening them. IMHO. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: longerons
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
> Everyone must be flying because I stirred up no debate about covering my
> Xtra fuselage with 0.020 aluminum by drilling 1/8" holes about every 4" in
> the frame.
>
> Will the holes weaken the longerons? Surely. Will the aluminum skin make
up
> the difference in strength? I don't know. If the longerons are weakened,
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Special Guest & Poker Run @ False River, LA - March 13th |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BICUM@aol.com
This is just so I don't get those "you should have let us know'" comments.
The weather is really nice and some of you may be looking to spread your wings
this coming Saturday.
John Williamson will be arriving around noon. I'll be participating in the
local EAA chapter's poker run with the "heavy iron" so I will be getting there
around 10'ish I hope.
Anyone interested, come visit. Nothing beats a bunch of Kolbers getting
together. The local EAA chapter is predominantly store bought airplanes. If you
are coming from the West and want to participate in the Poker run, the stops
are:
Marksville, LA (MKV) - no gas
Allen Parish (L42) - Oakdale, LA
Opelousas, LA - OPL
False River Airpark (HZR) - New Roads, LA
Just wanted to let anyone know that may be interested.
nontechnical - just friendly - DO NOT ARCHIVE
Thanks & be careful,
John Bickham
St. Francisville, LA
Kolb Mark III Classic - 912
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Do Not Archive
I received an email with a file attachment containing a virus from the address
shown above. I do NOT say this person sent it, but rather may have been the victim
of one of the worms that uses an address book to proliferate. Just an FYI...
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | leading edge fabric |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
John H,
After thinking about the leading edge tube deflecting the way it did made me think
about whether you bonded the leading edge tube and fabric with Polytak. Sometimes
a builder won't add aircraft cement to the leading edge tube because it
makes the fabric rough underneath and cosmetically doesn't look as good. Without
the attachment between tube and fabric, the LE tube would be more free to
move around under the fabric and maybe cause the ribs to weaken.
What about the 3" finishing tape on the LE? I notice a lot of builders don't add
this because it makes the overall appearance not as attractive. The finishing
tape is very heavy duty and adds strength to the LE of the wings when bonded
with polybrush over the fabric.
Did Cuz'n P'fer have 3" finishing tape on the leading edge?
Just wondering .....
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge fabric |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Morning Ralph/All:
Let's see if I can answer your questions.
| After thinking about the leading edge tube deflecting the way it did
made me think about whether you bonded the leading edge tube and
fabric with Polytak. Sometimes a builder won't add aircraft cement to
the leading edge tube because it makes the fabric rough underneath and
cosmetically doesn't look as good. Without the attachment between tube
and fabric, the LE tube would be more free to move around under the
fabric and maybe cause the ribs to weaken.
I don't see how anyone could not use Polytack for the bottom fabric to
leading and trailing edges. What would hold that fabric in place
while attempting to Polytack the top fabric over it? I do not believe
the adhesion of fabric to leading edge tube adds any strength or locks
it in place. Although the dacron is heat shrunk, it will still
stretch and shrink. Push your thumb into the wing fabric for a minute
or two. There will be a big dimple there when you remove your thumb.
In a few minutes it will return to its original shape. I do not think
the leading edge tube weakened the ribs on my FS in any way. If you
take a serious look at what is holding the forward part of the wing
together, you will see that 5 rib noses are not much. The FS rib is
made of .028 X 5/16 tubing.
| What about the 3" finishing tape on the LE? I notice a lot of
builders don't add this because it makes the overall appearance not as
attractive. The finishing tape is very heavy duty and adds strength to
the LE of the wings when bonded with polybrush over the fabric.
My FS wings were built and covered per Kolb instructions and plans, to
include the required 3" finishing tape. In addition to the 3" tape on
leading and trailing edges, all full ribs were completely wrapped with
2" tape (all the way around the wing and overlapped). I took no short
cuts building and covering the FS wings.
| Did Cuz'n P'fer have 3" finishing tape on the leading edge?
Sure did.
As I have mentioned in earlier posts to the Kolb List, it may be a
good idea to take a look inside those wings to insure everything that
is supposed to be in there is, and it is attached per plans and
instructions.
Take care,
john h
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aircraft Insurance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Gang:
A quick note for those interested.
I just made my final decision on next year's insurance. I have been
with AVEMCO for a long time, all the Alaska flights. However, Falcon,
EAA endorsed, beat their premium by $341.00 and cover me and the
airplane anywhere in the US (minus Hawaii), Canada, Mexico, and best
of all, anywhere in Alaska. With AVEMCO I was required to have a
geographic indorsement to cover me while flying in the North Slope
area of Alaska. This was extremely expensive. Another advantage is
no deductible. Can not remember what AVEMCO had for deductible.
Take care,
john h
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | leading edge failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Just how many G's did John pull repeatedly doing all those loops in an
unaerobatic airplane? How many times did he screw the loops up a bit and
pull even more G's? How fast was he going when he pulled out of the bottom
of some of those loops? Most of the lift on a wing is generated in the
front 25% of the wing. Lets say John was flying around at around 600
pounds. At 5 G's that's 3000 pounds of lift on about 30 feet of wing and
ten wing ribs. 100 pounds per foot of wing and 300 pound of lift per wing
rib, mostly on the nose ribs. (And it is not spread evenly as the lift is a
little greater inboard then outboard) Take a look at one of those little
ribs made out of those tiny tubes and imagine a 200+ pound guy standing on
the nose rib part of it, and now bounce on it for a couple of hours... Now
add the wing bending that tends to twist the ribs so the tubes are no longer
in column on the top. If I built a bridge out of this tubing put together
like the ribs are across a deep canyon I bet not one of you would go out and
jump on it. I think the reason the nose ribs failed isn't too much of a
mystery. They were beat to death!
Just my guess anyway.
Topher
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
The Rotor mouse helicopter cage is completely covered in lexan... I thought
that was kinda cool.
The main problem is that you are going to want to seal all those holes into
the 4130 to prevent the interiors from rusting. that means using sealing
rivets which are expensive if you are using structural rivets not the closed
aluminum ones. And your going to need structural rivets if your want to get
any strength from the aluminum. I would also look into .016 inch 6061 t6
aluminum as it would be lighter then the .02 and more corrosion resistant
then the 2024. The extra strength of the 2024 is not a benefit for you in
this case and the fact the 2024 will crack along any bend lines real easily
compared to the 6061 is a major reason to use the 6061 if you're going to
bend the aluminum to fit to the cage.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay Stuart
Subject: Kolb-List: longerons
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Everyone must be flying because I stirred up no debate about covering my
Xtra fuselage with 0.020 aluminum by drilling 1/8" holes about every 4" in
the frame.
Will the holes weaken the longerons? Surely. Will the aluminum skin make up
the difference in strength? I don't know. If the longerons are weakened,
is it a good thing or not? I don't know, because in a crash, some crumpling
is desirable. How much crumpling? I don't know. If the fuselage is
weakened, is this a problem at normal flight speeds and maneuvers? I won't
think so.
In the event of a crash, what is most likely to cause you harm? I would
guess that the engine behind you would be the most dangerous object around.
A local gyrocopter pilot was killed last year after an engine-out forced
landing. Reports I heard were that the Subaru engine behind him caused his
fatal injuries.
Maybe Kolb will crash test some remote controlled planes for research.
Comments?
Clay Stuart
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Topher,
You have a way with words my man. This is a very good explanation of what can happen
with a wing under extra load. It will make me think a lot more when I want
to do some of those fast pullups to feel the g's in my pants.
Ralph
Original 5-rb wing Firestar
17 years flying it
-- "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Just how many G's did John pull repeatedly doing all those loops in an
unaerobatic airplane? How many times did he screw the loops up a bit and
pull even more G's? How fast was he going when he pulled out of the bottom
of some of those loops? Most of the lift on a wing is generated in the
front 25% of the wing. Lets say John was flying around at around 600
pounds. At 5 G's that's 3000 pounds of lift on about 30 feet of wing and
ten wing ribs. 100 pounds per foot of wing and 300 pound of lift per wing
rib, mostly on the nose ribs. (And it is not spread evenly as the lift is a
little greater inboard then outboard) Take a look at one of those little
ribs made out of those tiny tubes and imagine a 200+ pound guy standing on
the nose rib part of it, and now bounce on it for a couple of hours... Now
add the wing bending that tends to twist the ribs so the tubes are no longer
in column on the top. If I built a bridge out of this tubing put together
like the ribs are across a deep canyon I bet not one of you would go out and
jump on it. I think the reason the nose ribs failed isn't too much of a
mystery. They were beat to death!
Just my guess anyway.
Topher
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wings and Things |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi All:
Ralph Burlingame was kind enough to let me know the following email
went to him only. It was intended for all on the Kolb List.
john h
| Thanks again John. Did you want this to go to the list? You sent it
directly to me, but I think you could put it on the list too.
|
| Very good advice ....
|
| Ralph
|
| -- "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
| | Hey thanks so much for sending those comments John. Your
| experiences will help others from getting into trouble and hopefully
| me too.
| |
| | I know there have been times where I have pushed the little
Firestar
| way beyond the limits. The Vne is 80 mph and I have had it over
that.
| Nothing broke yet, but I have to take it easy as the little bird is
| getting old.
| |
| | Ralph
|
| Ralph/All:
|
| I intentionally left your entire post above.
|
| I can't remember if I shared this or not. It is not mine, but an
old
| timer friend back in 1990. He explained to me that "stress" can be
| explained as a whole number, 1.0. Each time the aircraft is
stressed,
| a little bit is taken away, with nothing be replaced. So tht whole
| number starts getting smaller and smaller. Finally, one day we ask
| our airplane to do a task and it replies, "Sorry, I am all used up."
| I believe this is what happened to me and my Firestar.
|
| I personally do not care if anyone agrees with the above or not. I
| do, and it keeps me playing on a "fair" field. I am not saying that
| the FS wing or US wing is weak, howeveer, it is not as strong as the
7
| rib wing panels nor the MKIII wing. I know from personal experience
| that the wing can be worn out, used up, flown to the point that it
| will finally give up. If and when that happens, it is awfully nice
to
| have some type of recovery system. Something to give you one more
| option for survival. I, for one, can not predict if and when a wing
| will fail. I only know of two. Mine and Aubrey Radford's. I think
I
| asked earlier if anyone else had any knowledge of US or FS wing
| failures. I am sure Dennis Souder has that info, if it has happened
| to others.
|
| What I am trying to impress on you all is to fly the all Kolb
aircraft
| the way they were designed to be flown. Inspect them, pull
| maintenance on them, and enjoy them. They are the best available
for
| us to fly. That is why I have flown them for the last 20 years, and
| hope I can still push mine out of the hanger 20 years from now.
| Ignoring a possible maintence problem will not make it go away.
| Because it has not happened yet, does not mean it will not. Never
| take anything about building, maintaining and flying airplanes for
| granted. That is what "Murphy's Law" wants you to do. Makes
Murphy's
| job much easier. Do not be afraid to cut a couple inspection slots
in
| those inboard rib wing panels. One to peek through, and one to
shine
| that little Mag Lite through. It there is a lateral brace or
anything
| else in there broken, bent, or does not look the way it should, do
not
| hesitate to cut some fabric and repair.
|
| The one big mistake I made with my US and FS was my attitude that
the
| last thing to fail on either aircraft was the wings. A lot of
little
| mods were made on the fuselage of both aircraft, but never looked
hard
| at the wings. We should have, based on the way I flew them. Had I
| flown them both as designed, it would still be a mistake not to look
| inside and see what is happening in there.
|
| Please try to interpret what I am saying as what I, John Hauck,
should
| do and/or should have done with both aircraft. I in no way am
| recommending you all do anything, even though it may sound that way.
| It is not my intention. My intention is to share my experience,
| mistakes, and solutions for my aircraft and no one else's. I do not
| want to see anyone experience a lot of the problems I experienced
| learning to build, maintain, and fly these fun little airplanes. My
| day is made if I can help one person prevent one accident.
|
| Take care,
|
| john h
|
| PS: A lot of Kolb flyers love to gain a lot of airspeed, pull back
| hard on the control stick and feel the exhileration of about 3+ G's
| and terrific climb. This amount of stress was normal with each of
the
| 1,000's of maneuvers I performed while doing aerobatics in my FS.
| Think about it.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
You should buy a new airspeed indicator.:~)
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5-ribs and 503's
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
<eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>
>
> Richard Swiderski wrote:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
<swiderski@rocketjet.net>
> >
> > Ralph,
> >
> > Everybody has an opinion, here's mine:
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> You guys make me nervous. My five rib Firestar with a 377 will do over
> 90 straight and level and I'm no light weight. Should I be building new
> seven rib wings?
>
> EZ
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 2024 Sheet vs 6061 and Other |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| this case and the fact the 2024 will crack along any bend lines real
easily
| compared to the 6061 is a major reason to use the 6061 if you're
going to
| bend the aluminum to fit to the cage. Topher
Topher/All:
Have to agree 100% on not using 2024 sheet on ultralights. I started
out experiementing with aluminum sheet to replace the nylon gap seal
on the US and FS. Limited budget meant a quick trip to the hardware
store and a roll of valley aluminum for house roofs. These lasted
well. I got to thinking, if the valley aluminum lasted that well,
some of that strong 2024 sheet would be even better. Made up a new
center section, mounted it, and had stress cracks in a couple hours.
It was too hard to work well in the high vibrations of the two stroke
world.
john h
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Topher/All:
Thanks for your interesting response. Some I agree with, some I
don't.
| Just how many G's did John pull repeatedly doing all those loops in
an
| unaerobatic airplane?
Every aircraft I have built, US, FS, and MKIII have been equipped with
a certified accelerometer or G meter. I paid particular attention to
mount the G meter so it would be parallel with the line of flight of
the aircraft.
Loops were consistently performed pulling a max of 3 to 3.5 G's. The
amazing thing about the US and FS was how little stress is normally
placed upon the airplane. Normally, 3 to 3.5 G's was all. In an
attempt see how much stress I could place on it yielded 5.0 G's. That
required a 90 mph vertical dive and an abrupt pull out. Not easy to
get much above 3.5 G's flying aerobatics. However, I have experienced
3.5 G's while flying in clear air turbulence. I can not remember what
my airspeed was, but I was on my way to Sun and Fun 1989, a very windy
day, indeed. Out of the clear blue I got hit hard enough to hurt my
neck. My normal cross country airspeeds in the FS were 65 to 75 mph.
How many times did he screw the loops up a bit and
| pull even more G's?
Serioudly, not many screw ups. Usually the screw ups did not pull
more g's. More G's were pulled going into and than coming out of. An
overspeed coming out required a little longer pull out. Again,
duration of stress, I am sure, also fits into the equation of "wearing
out a wing".
How fast was he going when he pulled out of the bottom
| of some of those loops?
Normally, 70 to 75 mph. Most g's were pulled going into the loop
because of the pusher configuration/high thrust line, and increased
power working against the inside loop. I found I could do beautiful
loops with about half throttle by doing a series of nice and gentle
pull ups until full stall, push the nose over to gain air speed back
up steep into another full stall. Usually, about three of these
repetitions would yield a beautiful symetrical loop at half throttle.
I could do this without increasing power. The FS would hae done much
nicer outside loops, based on high thrust line, if the lift struts had
survived.
Most of the lift on a wing is generated in the
| front 25% of the wing.
I think I emphasized that in a previous post a short time ago. I am
glad you also pointed that out.
Lets say John was flying around at around 600
| pounds.
This would be a normal cross country gross weight for my FS.
At 5 G's that's 3000 pounds of lift on about 30 feet of wing and
| ten wing ribs.
As previously stated, the FS only saw 5 g's once. Very difficult to
pull 4.0. Average 3 to 3.5.
| I think the reason the nose ribs failed isn't too much of a
| mystery. They were beat to death!
I don't like that description. I think "worn out" is a more apt
description, and sounds much better than "beat to death".
| Just my guess anyway.
How often do you use that system of engineering at work?
Just my guess, more often than I realize. Just kidding, Topher. But
you get my point, I hope. :-)
I have never tried to "sugar coat" or cover up the way I flew my FS,
the weights and airspeeds I demanded, and the seriously inclement,
turbulent weather it was exposed to in flight. I made many mistakes
over the years and got my eyes opened wide 11 March 1990. Hopefully,
I can open some more eyes with the informtion I share on this List so
others do not have to go to the same extremes I did to get their "eyes
opened".
Take care,
john h
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | leading edge failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
I don't like that description. I think "worn out" is a more apt
description, and sounds much better than "beat to death".
| Just my guess anyway.
How often do you use that system of engineering at work?
I don't work much these days, but I guess when I have to... but the guess
part was in getting the data, the analysis is done correctly. Using the
better data you provided in the analysis still results in my correct
analysis that the nose ribs failed because you "Wore them out!" Which does
sound better then beat them to death, though I think my phrase makes the
point better. Flown more mildly I don't think they would be wore out yet,
though you put more hours on light planes then anybody I know cept maybe
Mark Beierle.
So using your better data at 3 G's (was that a recording g meter or one you
only get a reading when you're looking at it real time?) And let's say only
550 pounds now you're talking only 1650 pounds or 165 pounds per rib.
I weight 165 pounds so that is like me standing on the rib. I still say I
wouldn't want to do that very often! If I put one Kolb rib over the edge of
a 500 foot cliff would you go out and stand on it?
(Really we should add the root ribs too so that's 12 ribs and only 137.5
pounds but that doesn't sound near as bad now does it, and I was trying to
be scary to keep you guys safer!)
Hay! Don't take my keyboard!
What do we care, go out fly loops, load over gross, fly real fast! Trust
us, Kolb would never sell you a plane with less then a 5 times safety margin
on anything. Load her up, put on bigger engines, she can take it. yah
that's the ticket, 200 hp will make it climb real good! And you just have
to limit yer top speed yourself, no problem you can hold her right at the
redline all day long, gusts? Don't worry, how often are you gonna be hit by
a big gust. Never happen while you are in a loop or flying at red line.
Don't worry about it. CG? You can't load a kolb out of the cg range, don't
bother with a weight and balance. All your mods? How much could that 200hp
move the cg anyway? Forget about it!)
OK, I got the keyboard back from that looney,
But he makes some kinda point with that raving.
Topher ;-)
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
one you
| only get a reading when you're looking at it real time?)
Recording....
| I weight 165 pounds so that is like me standing on the rib. I still
say I
| wouldn't want to do that very often! If I put one Kolb rib over the
edge of
| a 500 foot cliff would you go out and stand on it?
Not until I got those snazzy aluminum angle reinforcements on them.
:-)
137.5
| pounds but that doesn't sound near as bad now does it, and I was
trying to
| be scary to keep you guys safer!)
When I built the wings for the MKIII, Jim recognized the increased
strength in building a full 4130 inboard rib. My MKIII is equipped
with full 4130 IB ribs.
| But he makes some kinda point with that raving.
Well, Topher, I have tried not to rave too much. I have all along
shared the many errors I made in judgement overflying the US and the
FS. Hopefully, you and many others will benefit from that. I have
never tried to cover up my mistakes. Doesn't help others much to do
that.
So...........I will continue to fly my MKIII wings with all those
holes drilled in all those ribs with all that extra weight that some
think is doing absolutely nothing. I like'em that way. :-) Hoping
they'll last long enough to get back to Alaska and other neat places.
Take care,
john h
PS: If you aren't punching the time clock much anymore, ought to have
the FS finished and flying in no time. I'm anxious to see how your
mods perform, in flight.
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Digital camera to the rescue |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
This might make life simpler -
Was holding a set of brake master cylinders in the place where they will
end up, and trying to visualize how to make the new bracket, and then be
able to remember the mental picture accurately enough to transfer the whole
concept correctly into welded steel...
Then I thought of my digital camera.
Got the camera, held the cylinders in place, took a picture, printed the
picture, and now I can mark the picture with dimensions and have it right
at the workbench while I fabricate the bracket instead of having to run
back and forth to the airplane. The odds of only having to build one
bracket instead of two or three before getting it right just got better....
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
Howdy Folks. I don't own a Kolb (yet) nor have I built my own plane (yet), but
I do work in aviation as a mechanic and avionics tech. IMHO I would not drill
into any structural tube without approval from the manufacturer or a DER. The
skin will not make up the difference in strength, especially 6061. For the skin
to become part of the structure, all the holes would have to be close-tolerance,
structural rivets, proper thickness and hardness, etc.....As much as I hate
to say it, you would need an engineer to determine these things. Take a look
at a RANS S-12 if you get a chance. I thought if I ever wanted to skin my homebuilt,
I would go that route. The skin is bent over the tube and riveted to
itself if I remember correctly. As for 2024, I make alot of panels from it and
have never had a problem as long as you use proper technique, bend radius etc.
Get a copy of the AC 43.13 if you don't have it already. You can download the
whole thing
from the FAA web site, I believe. Lotsa good structural stuff in there.
Take Care,
Guy Morgan (wanna-be Kolber)
snip The main problem is that you are going to want to seal all those holes into
the 4130 to prevent the interiors from rusting. that means using sealing
rivets which are expensive if you are using structural rivets not the closed
aluminum ones. And your going to need structural rivets if your want to get
any strength from the aluminum. I would also look into .016 inch 6061 t6
aluminum as it would be lighter then the .02 and more corrosion resistant
then the 2024. The extra strength of the 2024 is not a benefit for you in
this case and the fact the 2024 will crack along any bend lines real easily
compared to the 6061 is a major reason to use the 6061 if you're going to
bend the aluminum to fit to the cage.
-----Original Message-----
-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <A
1a32f7f90ba0e9c9a1emailto=1to=tcstuart@adelphia.netmsg=MSG1078768167.26start=538216len=4582src=type=x"
target=_top>tcstuart@adelphia.net
Everyone must be flying because I stirred up no debate about covering my
Xtra fuselage with 0.020 aluminum by drilling 1/8" holes about every 4" in
the frame.
Will the holes weaken the longerons? Surely. Will the aluminum skin make up
the difference in strength? I don't know. If the longerons are weakened,
is it a good thing or not? I don't know, because in a crash, some crumpling
is desirable. How much crumpling? I don't know. If the fuselage is
weakened, is this a problem at normal flight speeds and maneuvers? I won't
think so.
ime Offer)
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FOUND: Fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Thanks to all for the many suggestions and generous offers regarding my need for
a new fuel tank. As it turns out, while TNK doesn't support the Mark II anymore,
they do still sell and stock the fuel tank, so I ordered a new one from them.
Happy Flying, chums!
do not archive
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Two Place Ultralight Crash/Fatalities |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi All:
This was the last item in the FAA Accident Brief for today.
All it said was two fatalities at Labelle, FL.
I got this info from a Fort Myers TV station:
http://www.winktv.com/x8761.xml
Anybody know anything about the accident. Sounds like a mid-air
during a flight of five ultralights during a fly over of an RV Park
celebration. One aircraft crashed after losing a wing. Two
fatalities.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Two Place Ultralight Crash/Fatalities |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
It was a single airplane incident. It was based at my home field. I wasn't
out there Saturday. One of the guys invited everyone out to his mobile home
park to a pancake breakfast social Saturday morning. Afterwards the guys
came back to the field to fly, and staged a flyby over a vacant field next
to the park. Everyone from the park turned out to watch. There were five
or six planes and each made several passes. The plane was a two-place
Challenger and it pulled up sharply after what I had described to me as a
high-speed pass. One wing sheared off completely. The plane rolled 90
degrees and hit on its side. Both the pilot and passenger were killed
immediately.
That's all I know. We're not sure if the authorities have been able to
contact the pilot's next of kin. He was single and lived alone. One
immediate outcome is that we'll be keeping a list of contacts at the field
for everyone who flies there.
It did occur to me that the flyby was organized so nobody flew over the
crowd, or in it's direction when low over the vacant field. In retrospect
that was a very good thing. There are some other lessons we can talk about
sometime, but later.
Y'all be careful,
Duncan McBride
N319DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Two Place Ultralight Crash/Fatalities
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hi All:
>
> This was the last item in the FAA Accident Brief for today.
>
> All it said was two fatalities at Labelle, FL.
>
> I got this info from a Fort Myers TV station:
>
> http://www.winktv.com/x8761.xml
>
> Anybody know anything about the accident. Sounds like a mid-air
> during a flight of five ultralights during a fly over of an RV Park
> celebration. One aircraft crashed after losing a wing. Two
> fatalities.
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New Twist Regarding Airport Insurance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Hey Folks,
Any one know the particulars of any litigation involving UL's in Texas. We
were informed by the airport owners association has been forewarned that if
the airport has UL's based at the airport that they may expect a rate
increase. Rationale was due to three present litigation cases involving
UL's in Texas. Next question comes what will be the damage for the
insurance, if too much being banded from use of the airport where we and
other either own or rent hangar space. For present were letting the dog
lie hoping things will not change. For the rest of you out there get ready
for this as a means for insurance companies to increase revenue.
jerb
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James and Cathy Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
John Cooley, Kip, and others who responded to my prop question,
Thanks for the information on the Powerfin. I ordered a 3 blade 60" "B"
model today for my FS. I'm sure JH understands everyone's need to turn a
lighter prop with the "B" gearbox and doesn't expect us all to run Warp
Drive props.
James Tripp
FSII, 80% done
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: FS Prop
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
>
> James,
> I have a FS II with a 503 DCDI and a 2.58 "B" gearbox. I am running a 3
> blade 60 inch "B" model Powerfin. It is a nice prop with good
> performance. When I bought my prop 1 1/2 years or longer ago, Stuart was
> working on a new blade planform specifically designed for this
> particular setup. Was supposed to have the carbon fiber looking blades
> and perform a little better than the "B" model. I haven't touched base
> with Stuart in quite a while and don't know if he is still working on
> the project or gave it up etc.
>
> And for John Hauck, I know the Powerfin is not as good or as tough as
> the Warp Drive, but I think you have to spend a little more to the all
> aluminum hub on the Warp :) Note the smiley face everyone, please.
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Hi Kolbers,
Guess your wondering.... What tha heck is this guy asking a W&B question at this
point? Well here is why. My father-n-law and his new toy (the RV8) has completed
the 40 hrs required time to leave our airport and carry a passenger. In the
manuals we were looking at W&B and figuring CG. The manual for this airplane
states "Tail wheel weight not to exceed 60lbs" So we bebop out to the airport
with some scales and weigh the tail wheel because the W&B charts from the builder
stated 49lbs. But neither me nor pops could lift the tail off the ground.
Hmmmmm so after we both picked up the tail and got her tail on the scales she
weighed a whopping 116lbs...????? The thought of plopping my big butt in the
back seat and going for a ride calculated out to -10 gallons of fuel for correct
CG. But wait!!! this cant be right.. we put 5 gallons of water in the rear
seat to keep the tail wheel from dancing upward on take off roll if it hit a
pebble or crack in the runway????? Scratching heads at this point.... After typing
this thread to this point I think I will post it and see if you guys can
figure out what we were doing wrong with this W&B of the tail and how Kolb's are
weighed in this manner. After Charley got home and thought about it became
crystal clear. And was why I wanted to ask this question in the first place after
viewing photos of other builders W&B photos..... Have at it, I'm going to
go drill some holes and pull some rivets.......
Take Care
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: W&B Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Hi Paul you have to have the plane in flight attitude to get the correct
tail weight
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: W&B Question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> Guess your wondering.... What tha heck is this guy asking a W&B question
at this point? Well here is why. My father-n-law and his new toy (the RV8)
has completed the 40 hrs required time to leave our airport and carry a
passenger. In the manuals we were looking at W&B and figuring CG. The manual
for this airplane states "Tail wheel weight not to exceed 60lbs" So we bebop
out to the airport with some scales and weigh the tail wheel because the W&B
charts from the builder stated 49lbs. But neither me nor pops could lift the
tail off the ground. Hmmmmm so after we both picked up the tail and got her
tail on the scales she weighed a whopping 116lbs...????? The thought of
plopping my big butt in the back seat and going for a ride calculated out
to -10 gallons of fuel for correct CG. But wait!!! this cant be right.. we
put 5 gallons of water in the rear seat to keep the tail wheel from dancing
upward on take off roll if it hit a pebble or crack in the runway?????
Scratching heads !
> at this point.... After typing this thread to this point I think I will
post it and see if you guys can figure out what we were doing wrong with
this W&B of the tail and how Kolb's are weighed in this manner. After
Charley got home and thought about it became crystal clear. And was why I
wanted to ask this question in the first place after viewing photos of other
builders W&B photos..... Have at it, I'm going to go drill some holes and
pull some rivets.......
>
> Take Care
> Paul Petty
> Building Ms. Dixie
> Kolbra/912UL/Warp
> www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
You are not weighting the plane in the flight attitude?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Petty
Subject: Kolb-List: W&B Question
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Hi Kolbers,
Guess your wondering.... What tha heck is this guy asking a W&B question at
this point? Well here is why. My father-n-law and his new toy (the RV8) has
completed the 40 hrs required time to leave our airport and carry a
passenger. In the manuals we were looking at W&B and figuring CG. The manual
for this airplane states "Tail wheel weight not to exceed 60lbs" So we bebop
out to the airport with some scales and weigh the tail wheel because the W&B
charts from the builder stated 49lbs. But neither me nor pops could lift the
tail off the ground. Hmmmmm so after we both picked up the tail and got her
tail on the scales she weighed a whopping 116lbs...????? The thought of
plopping my big butt in the back seat and going for a ride calculated out to
-10 gallons of fuel for correct CG. But wait!!! this cant be right.. we put
5 gallons of water in the rear seat to keep the tail wheel from dancing
upward on take off roll if it hit a pebble or crack in the runway?????
Scratching heads !
at this point.... After typing this thread to this point I think I will post
it and see if you guys can figure out what we were doing wrong with this W&B
of the tail and how Kolb's are weighed in this manner. After Charley got
home and thought about it became crystal clear. And was why I wanted to ask
this question in the first place after viewing photos of other builders W&B
photos..... Have at it, I'm going to go drill some holes and pull some
rivets.......
Take Care
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: W&B Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Paul,
I dont know what the wings angle of attack is on a RV-8 in flight....but you
need to raise the tail up so that the airplane is...then weigh it...my WAG
is...that 116lbs is probaby right when the tail is down....it will likely be
awful close to the 49lbs when you get it up in the air..
Also..If you havent found it yet...Matronics has a RV list...in
fact...several....go there and ask fopr the angle of attack of the wing in
flight.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
that the cage
was not designed to take the engine and that cracks would develop around
the back
of the cage under the engine mount area. We did it anyway with a 503 single
carb
back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the back
part of
the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
designed for. I know Homer really liked us, but had a problem with
the name "Possums from Hell" for obvious reasons - if you know Homer.
He said once that he was "very impressed" we were still alive.
But he invited us to dinner at the airshows anyway- so ??
Young, dumb and invincible!!! But it was fun.
>| If I had an early FS & had the
>| choice of a 447 or a 503, I'd put on the 503 without blinking an
>eye,
>| because I would know that it would be me who controlled how fast the
>plane
>| would go, not the engine. If I was the designer, I'd limit the
>plane to a
>| 447. ...Richard Swiderski
>
>Richard/All:
>
>The US and the Firestar were designed for 35 HP. Homer would not sell
>me a 40 HP 447 when I got my FS kit.
>
>I hope some of you on the Kolb List have paid attention to some of my
>mistakes over the past 20 years, and hopefully you will learn as much
>from them as I have.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
>
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 12:42 AM 3/8/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>| If I had an early FS & had the
>| choice of a 447 or a 503, I'd put on the 503 without blinking an
>eye,
Oh.. let me also add that I'm not saying don't experiment -
if you want. I've got a kickass 503 E-box dual-carb 3 blade warp drive on mine
now, but have beefed up/changed the cage a lot. Getting close to 575
hours without a single glitch, decarb, rebuild - nothing. Like I say, just an
experiment. Going to trade it in at 600 hours for a new one - maybe.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modrearframe.jpg
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Young, dumb and invincible!!! But it was fun.
Possum/All:
I was there the night you all had dinner with the Kolb clan. Aubrey
Radford was also there in all his glory. Quite a character. I will
never forget.
I have got to remember to take my Possum shirt to Lakeland. Makes a
wonderful dinner shirt.
Thanks, Possum.
john h (junior possum)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
>I have got to remember to take my Possum shirt to Lakeland. Makes a
>wonderful dinner shirt.
>
>Thanks, Possum.
>
>john h (junior possum)
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
Just don't wear it to church and I think you'll be alright.
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Hey Fellas....I dont know how many of you listen to ultraflight
net-radio...but I do when I can,,,and I just got an email from roy about
tomorrows show...Dave Piper is gonna be on..he is the intro copiedfrom the
email..
Dave Piper, Sun 'n Fun Ultralight Chairman
Dave Piper is the man with the task of making sure that Paradise City, the
Ultralight area at Sun 'n Fun, runs smoothly. This year a little more
attention is going to be paid to instructors providing tandem training
flights as well as some of the heavier Light Sport Aircraft. You don't have
to listen to rumors about this year's plans, you can get the facts
UltraFlight Radio can now be found live on Tuesday mornings right here on
the web at www.ultraflightradio.com at 10:00am Eastern Standard Time and
7:00am Pacific Time.
He might shed some light on what zactly they are gonna do to keep all you
dang Ultralite rebels inline....
and...they take phone calls too..it is talk radio on the web.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|