Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (GeoR38@aol.com)
2. 07:11 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (possums)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (GeoR38@aol.com)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (GeoR38@aol.com)
6. 11:12 AM - Sling Shot details (herbgh@juno.com)
7. 11:30 AM - Re: Firestar KXP kit for sale (Tommy Dubroc)
8. 11:36 AM - Re: Sling Shot details (John Hauck)
9. 03:14 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (Richard Swiderski)
10. 03:33 PM - Plastic fuel tank (Mike Pierzina)
11. 05:46 PM - Re: 5-ribs and 503's (Jack & Louise Hart)
12. 07:29 PM - Can you convert 5 rib to 7? (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
13. 07:58 PM - Re: Can you convert 5 rib to 7? (ul15rhb@juno.com)
14. 08:26 PM - Re: Can you convert 5 rib to 7? (Bob N.)
15. 09:42 PM - Re: Sling Shot details (Denny Rowe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/8/04 11:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
possums@mindspring.com writes:
> One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
> that the cage
> was not designed to take the engine and that cracks would develop around
> the back
> of the cage under the engine mount area. We did it anyway with a 503 single
> carb
> back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the back
> part of
> the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
> So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
> I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
> designed for. I know Homer really liked us, but had a problem with
> the name "Possums from Hell" for obvious reasons - if you know Homer.
> He said once that he was "very impressed" we were still alive.
> But he invited us to dinner at the airshows anyway- so ??
> Young, dumb and invincible!!! But it was fun.
>
the possum
I don't know what a XP Firestar is, I have a KX....without the P which. , I
think adds a 7 rib wing. The KX, which is what I have, is a 5 rib wing. I
believe we are talkin 5 rib, when we are controversing over the 503 or
not........this is just a little visene/not mud in the eye.
do not archive
george Randolph
The villages
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
The original FireStar which was characterized by the
high cockpit sides and the KX and KXP FireStars was characterized by
lowered cockpit sides, full length windshield and partially open rear
fuselage.
Sorry about that - when we were asking about the 503 we put it on
an "original" FireStar anyway - not the KXP or KX. They said not to because
of the cage.
Dennis Sounder would remember.
At 05:40 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
> > One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
> > that the cage
>
> > back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the back
> > part of
> > the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
> > So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
> > I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
>
> >
>the possum
>I don't know what a XP Firestar is, I have a KX....without the P which. , I
>think adds a 7 rib wing. The KX, which is what I have, is a 5 rib wing. I
>believe we are talkin 5 rib, when we are controversing over the 503 or
>not........this is just a little visene/not mud in the eye.
>
>do not archive
>george Randolph
>The villages
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/04 10:12:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
possums@mindspring.com writes:
>
> The original FireStar which was characterized by the
> high cockpit sides and the KX and KXP FireStars was characterized by
> lowered cockpit sides, full length windshield and partially open rear
> fuselage.
>
> Sorry about that - when we were asking about the 503 we put it on
> an "original" FireStar anyway - not the KXP or KX. They said not to because
> of the cage.
> Dennis Sounder would remember.
>
>
> At 05:40 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
> >
> >>One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
> >>that the cage
> >
> >>back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the back
> >>part of
> >>the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
> >>So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
> >>I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
> >
> >>
> >the possum
> >I don't know what a XP Firestar is, I have a KX....without the P which. , I
> >think adds a 7 rib wing. The KX, which is what I have, is a 5 rib wing. I
> >believe we are talkin 5 rib, when we are controversing over the 503 or
> >not........this is just a little visene/not mud in the eye.
> >
> >do not archive
> >george Randolph
> >The villages
>
what was the model that brought out the 7 rib wing?
geoR
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Firestar II
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/10/04 10:12:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> possums@mindspring.com writes:
>
> >
> > The original FireStar which was characterized by the
> > high cockpit sides and the KX and KXP FireStars was characterized by
> > lowered cockpit sides, full length windshield and partially open rear
> > fuselage.
> >
> > Sorry about that - when we were asking about the 503 we put it on
> > an "original" FireStar anyway - not the KXP or KX. They said not to because
>
> > of the cage.
> > Dennis Sounder would remember.
> >
> >
> > At 05:40 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:
> > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
> > >
> > >>One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
> > >>that the cage
> > >
> > >>back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the
> back
> > >>part of
> > >>the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
> > >>So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
> > >>I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
> > >
> > >>
> > >the possum
> > >I don't know what a XP Firestar is, I have a KX....without the P which. ,
> I
> > >think adds a 7 rib wing. The KX, which is what I have, is a 5 rib wing. I
> > >believe we are talkin 5 rib, when we are controversing over the 503 or
> > >not........this is just a little visene/not mud in the eye.
> > >
> > >do not archive
> > >george Randolph
> > >The villages
> >
> what was the model that brought out the 7 rib wing?
> geoR
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/04 10:32:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com writes:
> Firestar II
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 3/10/04 10:12:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >possums@mindspring.com writes:
> >
> >>
> >>The original FireStar which was characterized by the
> >>high cockpit sides and the KX and KXP FireStars was characterized by
> >>lowered cockpit sides, full length windshield and partially open rear
> >>fuselage.
> >>
> >>Sorry about that - when we were asking about the 503 we put it on
> >>an "original" FireStar anyway - not the KXP or KX. They said not to
> because
> >
> >>of the cage.
> >>Dennis Sounder would remember.
> >>
> >>
> >>At 05:40 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote:
> >>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
> >>>
> >>>>One of us ("Possums") ask about the 503 on the XP Firestar and were told
> >>>>that the cage
> >>>
> >>>>back in the early/mid 1990s??. The cage did develop cracks under the
> >back
> >>>>part of
> >>>>the engine mounts. They were hard to see - but they were there.
> >>>>So watch out guys, it was originally built for a 377 or 447.
> >>>>I think cranking up a 503 is a little rougher on the cage than it was
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>the possum
> >>>I don't know what a XP Firestar is, I have a KX....without the P which. ,
> >I
> >>>think adds a 7 rib wing. The KX, which is what I have, is a 5 rib wing. I
> >>>believe we are talkin 5 rib, when we are controversing over the 503 or
> >>>not........this is just a little visene/not mud in the eye.
> >>>
> >>>do not archive
> >>>george Randolph
> >>>The villages
> >>
> >what was the model that brought out the 7 rib wing?
> >geoR
>
No, not the firestar II, because the KXP had the 7 rib wing and that was
before the firestar II
I had the option of purchasing KXP in lieu of KX back in '91 at Oshkosh, I
think it was...and actually bought it from Homer, who was consulted about the
tradoffs between 5 and 7.....I wanted to be as close to 103 as possible so chose
5. I never intended to go above 447 on engine size and to this day have never
regretted it.
I really do think, however, that I got the very first KX as half of my plans
were of the original and the other half which showed the new tail fold feature
(which I never did) came to my house a little later.
You are dead on about the cage differences, though, I almost forgot that. I
even have a set of plans of the 7 rib wings which I think was provided at the
time.
Firestar "by George" driver from Akron, Oh
447, 3 blade Ivo
215 #....ugh
Firestar driver of "by George" from The Villages....was Akron O
447, 3 blade Ivo,
206#...but losin
Message 6
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| Subject: | Sling Shot details |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Hi Guys
Looking at a pic of a sling shot and wondering if it has 6 inch spars
and tail boom?? Looks as if TNK no longer offers it . Herb in Ky
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar KXP kit for sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tommy Dubroc" <TandCDubroc@centurytel.net>
Bill,
I am in central Louisiana.
Tommy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sling Shot details |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
spars
| and tail boom?? Looks as if TNK no longer offers it . Herb in Ky
Hi Herb/Gang:
I believe Kolb quit advertising, but may still produce a kit for
someone with the green stuff.
Give Bryan Millburn a call and get the straight skinny.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Kolbers,
A few days ago I posted my opinion (abbreviated below) on putting a
503 on an original FS. I thought it a reasonable thing to do, especially
with the positive experience I had with a similar hp engine on my US. We
just read testimonials of cage cracking on the FS with that application.
And today, it just popped into my head that I too had cracking on my
floating engine mount on the US, although at least one other engine mount on
a UltraStar occurred that I know of & it was with a stock 35 hp engine. I
reinforced the affected area, went on with life & forgot about it.
Conclusions: 1) Modifications increase risk of the unexpected. 2)
Richard Swiderski's opinion is not infallible. 3) Tapping into the knowledge
base of a group is invaluable.
Would I put a 503 on an original FS? Absolutely! For me, the
performance would be worth the modification needed to beef up the cage. I am
probably more comfortable than most in exploring my limits, & I am willing
to deal with the cascading effects of changing one thing only to have to
change 5 others because of it. If experimental were not allowed in
aviation, I would not be either. My great-great grand uncle used to tell
me, "Richie Boy, arrogant experimenters do not live long enough to brag too
much." If you tinker, ask a lot of questions, do small steps & keep a
humble opinion of your ability to see all the possibilities.
...Richard Swiderski
PS: I just added an Exhaust System page to my website
http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/ExhaustSysem.html?1078877874592 I am
working on posting the crank sensor assembly page next
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
<swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Ralph,
Everybody has an opinion, here's mine: I put about 350hr on my
UltraStar which has a wing essentially identical to the original FireStar.
My engine was a modified high performance Cuyuna which put out about 45hp.
.....
I therefore would think that a 503 on an early FS is
not unthinkable, especially if the craft was flown intelligently.
......
If I had an early FS & had the
choice of a 447 or a 503, I'd put on the 503 without blinking an eye,
because I would know that it would be me who controlled how fast the plane
would go, not the engine. If I was the designer, I'd limit the plane to a
447. ...Richard Swiderski
| I'm curious how many pilots on this list have 503's on their 5-rib
| Original Firestar's without any modifications to the wings?
| I was contacted by a fellow yesterday who is interested in buying an
| Original Firestar powered by a 503. I wonder how many of them are
out
| there? For some of you guys that are familiar with the Original
| Firestar's, what are your opinions on this?
|
| Ralph Burlingame
Message 10
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| Subject: | Plastic fuel tank |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Ken/all,
Thanks Ken, I went back and looked at my old reciept... the tank was 23
bucks. After I saw the reason MY price was so high...It was because I was getting
the CONVERSITION KIT , I needed the bigger tray for two tanks and everything.
(forgot about that)
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
It was twenty bucks. Well, nineteen and some change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Looks like the price actually came down since I bought mine...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
Do not Archive
---
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
Message 11
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| Subject: | 5-ribs and 503's |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 06:13 PM 3/10/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
..............
> Conclusions: 1) Modifications increase risk of the unexpected.
.............
Richard, FireFlyers and Kolbers
I agree. It is always good to proceed slowly and check and recheck.
Adding a more powerful engine to the FireFly has had its price. I did not
worry much about the hp because I thought I could hog it down with increased
prop pitch to limit a 48 hp engine to 38 hp and to keep the FireFly 103-7
legal. I was more worried about keeping the weight within limits, and
getting the FireFly trimmed so that it flew well. With most issues taken
care of and almost 50 hours with the FireFly and Victor 1+ engine
combination, it was time to limit the hp.
I proceeded to add a couple of twists to the IVO pitch adjustment screw to
increase pitch. After three adjustments followed by three flights, I
discovered that I was not going to be able to reach my goal. I had reduced
the WOT rpm from 6,000 to 5,400 rpm. Everything seemed to be fine in the
air, but on the ground the FireFly was becoming a monster. The prop pitch
was so high that one had to heavily ride the brakes while taxiing to and
from the runway. Even though the two blade propeller had been shortened to
56 inches, the engine firing impulse was too high and shook the cage. I
took the pitch back out of the prop and took another spin around the
pattern. I noticed an increase in exhaust noise.
After landing and pushing the FireFly in the hangar, I checked it over very
carefully. In about 15 minutes of flight, I had cracked the muffler in four
places, broken one radiator mounting bracket, and cracked one of the
radiator shutter mounting brackets. Repairs are under way and I am grounded
until they are complete. But the unescapable conclusion is that with the
Victor 1+ and FireFly combination I will not be able to make 103-7.
I will fly this summer with the Victor 1+ and then I will have to mount a
smaller hp MZ 34 (Compact Radial Engines) or F-33 (Hirth). It will be
interesting to see the effect of a 50 pound weight reduction on FireFly
performance.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Can you convert 5 rib to 7? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
All this talk about the 5 rib wing made me wonder if one could convert it to
7 ribs. That is, could you install 2 additional ribs onto the same "old"
spars. This would require moving all the ribs to a new location, leaving some
empty pop rivet holes and then require additional new holes for the rearranged
rib locations. My Original FireStar builders manual cautioned against drilling
"extra" unneccessary holes in the spar, so personally I wouldn't feel
comfortable doing it. But, I was just curious if anyone else thought about it.
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar
Audubon, NJ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Can you convert 5 rib to 7? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:28:40 EST WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
>
> All this talk about the 5 rib wing made me wonder if one could
> convert it to
> 7 ribs. That is, could you install 2 additional ribs onto the same
> "old"
> spars. This would require moving all the ribs to a new location,
> leaving some
> empty pop rivet holes and then require additional new holes for the
> rearranged
> rib locations. My Original FireStar builders manual cautioned
> against drilling
> "extra" unneccessary holes in the spar, so personally I wouldn't
> feel
> comfortable doing it. But, I was just curious if anyone else
> thought about it.
>
>
> Bill Varnes
> Original FireStar
> Audubon, NJ
Bill,
I think it would be better to get new 7-rib wings for the Firestar. One
interesting thing I have found this last week is the fact that 503's can
be used on Challenger wings, CGS Hawk wings, and even on the Aerolite
103. The integrity of those wings do not measure up to a 5-rib, 5" spar
Firestar wing in my opinion. I have been flying this plane some 17 years
now. Maybe it's best to be on the conservative side (for airplanes that
is).
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Can you convert 5 rib to 7? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
A year or more ago there were a bunch of posts on this. Try archives,
maybe there.
Bob N.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sling Shot details |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <herbgh@juno.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Sling Shot details
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Looking at a pic of a sling shot and wondering if it has 6 inch spars
> and tail boom?? Looks as if TNK no longer offers it . Herb in Ky
>
> Herb,
The Slingshot does use 6 inch spars and tail boom. Same as the Mk-3s and
Kolbras, only shorter.
Denny Rowe
I
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