Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: Kit Planes (Airgriff2@aol.com)
2. 09:14 AM - Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise Level (John Hauck)
3. 09:34 AM - Re: Kit Planes (John Hauck)
4. 12:00 PM - Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise (Jack & Louise Hart)
5. 12:26 PM - Re: Sun & Fun Hanger Fly-Inn (Richard Swiderski)
6. 12:33 PM - Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise Level (John Hauck)
7. 12:53 PM - Re: Sun & Fun Hanger Fly-Inn (Timandjan@aol.com)
8. 01:12 PM - Riverside Air Show (Larry Bourne)
9. 02:14 PM - q (kinnepix)
10. 02:19 PM - Re: Riverside Air Show (Don Gherardini)
11. 02:52 PM - Re: Riverside Air Show (Larry Bourne)
12. 03:08 PM - Re: Riverside Air Show (Richard Pike)
13. 04:34 PM - Re: q (John Hauck)
14. 05:44 PM - Flight planning website for Michigan pilots (Fackler, Ken)
15. 05:54 PM - Rustproofing tubes (Bob N.)
16. 08:09 PM - Re: Riverside Air Show (Edward Chmielewski)
17. 08:19 PM - Using Velcro (H MITCHELL)
18. 08:21 PM - Re: q (Edward Chmielewski)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
> Don stated:
> >> Made new axle fitting yesterday for the wheels and brakes From
>> John H..off of his old Flrestar
>
Hey, Don, I suggest for your first few landings, just let go of everything
and sit back and watch. Those wheels and brakes are pretty much going to know
what to do by themselves, I think. HE_HE :>)
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise Level |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
to and
| from the runway.
| Jack & Louise Hart
Jack/Gents:
To cut down on vibration, rattle, and elongating the lift strut holes,
I have always used bolts and nyloc nuts, in conjunction with bushings,
to snug everything up so it can not move.
I noticed in your pictures you were still using clevis pins. It
doesn't take much more time to remove the nut and bolt than it does
the clevis pin.
Take care,
john h
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Hey, Don, I suggest for your first few landings, just let go of
everything
| and sit back and watch. Those wheels and brakes are pretty much
going to know
| what to do by themselves, I think. HE_HE :>)
| Fly Safe
| Bob Griffin
Hi Bob G/Gang:
Come on now. Cuz'n P'fer was good, but ya gotta give the pilot a
little credit, I think.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise |
Level
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 11:13 AM 3/28/04 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>to and
>| from the runway.
>
>| Jack & Louise Hart
>
>Jack/Gents:
>
>To cut down on vibration, rattle, and elongating the lift strut holes,
>I have always used bolts and nyloc nuts, in conjunction with bushings,
>to snug everything up so it can not move.
>
>I noticed in your pictures you were still using clevis pins. It
>doesn't take much more time to remove the nut and bolt than it does
>the clevis pin.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
John,
My choice has to do with weight and trying to keep the FireFly ultra light
vehicle legal. A clevis pin is lighter that the bolt that would replace it
and vinyl tubing is lighter than metal bushings. And since all of these
connections are made up of shear loads, clevis pin use is appropriate.
One must be careful about cinching down shear load connections. If
alignment is a little off, the tightening down of the connection can pre
load the surrounding members and can reduce the maximum working load for
those members. Also a structure containing the connection cannot flex
relative to load application which may cause the same and/or additional
effect. When you are forced to build light, one wants minimize any possible
hidden stresses or loads in the structure. Does this mean that Kolbs will
fall out of the air if a bolt is used instead of a clevis pin? Probably
not, but a little movement can be a good thing.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Sun & Fun Hanger Fly-Inn |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Kolbers,
George Randolph & I will be camping out in my still empty SlingShot
trailer in the UL trailer field, immediately adjacent (south) of the UL camp
ground. We'll be there Wed. 14th-Sat. 17th. Friday at dusk, we will be
hosting a Kolb Hanger Fly-Inn. I volunteered George to be the guest of
honor. Bring a chair if you can. We'll provide hot drinks & good
fellowship. We'll put a map of our exact location at the New Kolb trailer.
I heard William Herron might show up with some left over brownies from a few
years ago.
The trailer is a tandem axle, white with green trim, burgundy RV
awning & a gun smoke blue Ford Ranger in front.
I am raffling off 2 free 15 gallon auxiliary gas tanks that are
14.5" in diameter, 27.5" tall, white heavy duty plastic walls (transluscent)
& about 6lb for the worst joke category, or to whoever wants one. They have
2 threaded caps on top, plus a handle, where originally chemical containers.
Fits perfectly in the jump seat of a SlingShot.
I'm planning on bringing my 100hp turbo Geo engine if anyone is
interested.
Richard Swiderski
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Strut Rattle Fix and In Flight Noise Level |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| My choice has to do with weight and trying to keep the FireFly ultra
light
| vehicle legal. A clevis pin is lighter that the bolt that would
replace it
| and vinyl tubing is lighter than metal bushings. And since all of
these
| connections are made up of shear loads, clevis pin use is
appropriate.
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack/Gang:
Your choice of vinyl tubing to reduce or eliminate rattling noise
during taxi is probably correct.
However, to eliminate vibration wear and elongation of the lift strut
attachments, one must go to bushings, bolts, nuts and washers.
It is startling how quickly these holes will wear and elongate. I
experienced this on the Ultrastar and went to bolts and bushings on
the FS and MKIII.
Haven't experienced any problems with this set up.
A good example of bolting down shear points would be the 3/8" bolt
that goes through the wing main spar and the tail boom "H" braces.
Same for the universal joints on the drag struts.
You are correct though, when attempting to keep weight down. Every
little bolt, washer, nut add up in the end.
Take care,
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sun & Fun Hanger Fly-Inn |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com
I am flying down with a local fellow in his Albatros, not the Kolb but it
should make for a great week. I plan to camp somewhere if not in the Albatros
itself. Anyways, if someone has a car, I will buy the beer for the meeting.
Tim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Riverside Air Show |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Do not Archive - Not all Kolb Related
Not Kolb related, I guess, but, I think, interesting for a'that......... Yesterday, 4 of us got together and drove in to the airshow at Riverside Municipal airport (RAL) and had a very good time. Interestingly, after 4 hours I nearly needed transport to get back to the car - couldn't walk anymore. No SnF for Lar. Among several very good aerial presentations were fly-bys of a WWII Mustang, and a much newer A-10 Warthog. What a contrast. Unfortunately, BoneHead Lar had made a mistake in setting up my camera - found later, when it was too late - and nearly 90 out of 108 pictures were out of focus. Too bad, and to say I was upset would be a massive under-statement, but it was my own fault, so..................?? Anyway, I built a web page in spite of that, cause 1 picture is so unusual that I've just gotta share it. Explanation is on the page at: http://www.tempics.homestead.com/doubles.html
OK, now to Kolb news: A week ago, I found where the guy who built my landing
gear had possibly trial fitted them with a crowbar and sledgehammer, and broken
the master switch, smashed the crowbar circuit breaker, and damaged some related
wiring behind the passenger's seat. He also damaged some wiring behind the
instrument panel, and tore some pretty good sized holes in the fabric, running
the brake lines. I have seldom in my life felt the level of blinding rage
that hit me when I realized what I was seeing. After jerking me around for 4
months, and the enormous price he ripped me off for .................aaaaarrrrgghhhh..........hadta
walk away from it. A week later - last Friday, with the
help of a snowbird pilot/friend from Minnesota, we got it all sorted out............so,
now, with a few minor tweaks to be done, as well as installing the
new windshield lexan, Vamoose is nearly ready for the air. I'll be contacting
the DAR next week, to set up an appointment. GoGittin' Lar.
Pheee-eeeww ! ! !
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: kinnepix <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Kolbers --
Im not recommending this, but anyone with a steel-tube aircraft may find it
interesting --
I knew a Marine Salvage man in the Bahamas & Caribbean. He had a
tube-&-fabric 4-seat floatplane on board his mother-ship, hoisted aboard &
launched again by crane. It was invaluable and saved him TONS of time and
effort. But this is some of the saltiest water on earth, and it chews up
aluminum aircraft very quickly; so he wanted a fabric-covered aircraft. He
went to the factory, where they filled all the steel tubes of a fuselage
with a light oil, and sealed it shut, then finished building the plane
around it. Steel tubes rust from the inside out, and this protects them
beautifully, tho it does add about 20lbs to the empty weight.
If anyone flies a Kolb regularly from salt water, this might be worth
considering.
Russ Kinne
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Riverside Air Show |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Larry....
HOLY COW...bout all I can say about that 2nd pic pard.....jeez that is a
good shot!
it almost excites me as much as to hear you are going to contact the
inspector!!!!! WAhoooo...that is good news!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Riverside Air Show |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Thanks, Don, but this is really strange. That message obviously went out to
the Kolb List, and I do show it in my "sent" file, but it never came back
thru on MY computer FROM the List. On that picture from yesterday,
after the shot I looked in the little camera monitor, and couldn't find the
Mustang. Odd, what ?? When I got home and downloaded the days' work into
the computer, all became obvious, and I started to howl. Oh
well..........?? Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Riverside Air Show
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Larry....
> HOLY COW...bout all I can say about that 2nd pic pard.....jeez that is a
> good shot!
>
> it almost excites me as much as to hear you are going to contact the
> inspector!!!!! WAhoooo...that is good news!
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Riverside Air Show |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Dyn O Mite picture!
I plan to put that in our next chapter newsletter and brag on you for it!
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 01:11 PM 3/28/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Do not Archive - Not all Kolb Related
<snip>
> cause 1 picture is so unusual that I've just gotta share
> it. Explanation is on the page
> at: http://www.tempics.homestead.com/doubles.html
><snip>
>Larry Bourne
>Palm Springs, CA
>Building Kolb Mk III
>N78LB Vamoose
>www.gogittum.com
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
find it
| interesting --
Steel tubes rust from the inside out, and this protects them
| beautifully, tho it does add about 20lbs to the empty weight.
| If anyone flies a Kolb regularly from salt water, this might be
worth
| considering.
| Russ Kinne
Hi Russ/Gang:
I bought a quart of Stitts Tube Seal in 1984 to do my Ultrastar. Then
I did my FS, and also my MK III. I am a firm believer in tube seal to
prevent internal corrosion in 4130 tube fuselages. Never had a
fuselage yet, that came from the welding shop and did not have some
pin holes, at least, for moisture to invade the inside of those
unprotected tubes.
Not being able to see the corrosion inside the tubes does not make the
problem go away.
I have had plenty occasions to inspect the inside of the tubes on my
FS and US. Some of the tubes I missed treating with tube seal had a
goodly amount of rust inside.
It is a simple task to treat a fuselage. I use 1/8" drill bit and
1/8" aluminum closed end pop rivets. Run down to Doc Bryson's office,
Ernie's Vet, and pick up a good size syringe and some big needles.
The syringe is marked in CC's and the formula for the amount of tube
seal is indicated in CC's per inch of what ever size tubing diameter.
Your friend's fuselage must have been really big to hold twenty pound
of tube seal. I am still working on the first quart I bought 20 years
ago. Some of my friends have also done their Kolb's out of my quart
of tube seal.
Take care and thanks for the info,
john h
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flight planning website for Michigan pilots |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
For those of you who fly in Michigan, at least the lower eastern part of it,
here's a website that might be useful:
http://www.staliteaviation.com/pops/ul_flight_planner.html
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rustproofing tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
I've done a J-3 with a pint, and spilled more than I drank..I mean used.
Think most mechs have squirted the old ragbags. This old RagBag has.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Riverside Air Show |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hey Lar,
Good news on the completion!
Hope you take some pics of the damage and make him pay, sounds like he
really
needs to make it right by you. Don't let him off the hook!
Ed in JXN (Mich)
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Riverside Air Show
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
(Snip) A week ago, I found where the guy who built my landing gear had possibly
trial
fitted them with a crowbar and sledgehammer, and broken the master switch, smashed
the
crowbar circuit breaker, and damaged some related wiring behind the passenger's
seat. He
also damaged some wiring behind the instrument panel, and tore some pretty good
sized
holes in the fabric, running the brake lines. I have seldom in my life felt the
level of
blinding rage that hit me when I realized what I was seeing. After jerking me
around for
4 months, and the enormous price he ripped me off for
.................aaaaarrrrgghhhh..........hadta walk away from it. (Snip)
Message 17
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Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:19:52 -0500
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd@msn.com>
I have been replacing all of the "velcro" on metal wing gap cover of my FireFly
and this is what I have learned so far.
The generic "velcro" sold in fabric stores and department stores is not the genuine
stuff. Real Velcro is made or licensed to be made by the Velcro Co of Manchester
N.H. It has Velcro written all over it and is a quality product. There
are two grades or strengths. One is the standard grade which is most common and
can be used in most light applications. I used this on my plane and it did
O.K. but wore out to the point where it would no longer hold after about 150 hours
and ~ as many wing foldings. The next grade is "Industrial Strength". It
has a 50% more grip strength and, of course, costs more. A magnified exam shows
that it has better hooks and more fuzz.
The original "vecro" was glued on with Polytak and stayed in place fairly well
but I had to re-glue some areas where it had separated from the aluminum gap cover
and I always kept an eye on it. The industrial grade I just installed came
with an adhesive back. This backing is so sticky that once it is applied it
is there to stay. If it ever needs replacing I will scrap the whole cover and
make new one from scratch. The hooks-to-fuzz grip is so tight on the new Velcro
that I am thinking I may need a tool that would look something like a fly swatter
to separate the mating surfaces without putting any creases in the aluminum
sections during removal.
The industrial grade is available from Staples by phone or on-line but not from
the standard retail store stock. I paid ~$28 for 15' delivered to my door by
Staples in two days.
I am now trying to figure out how to get the old "velcro" off of top side of my
wing root. It was Polytaked to the inboard rib and adjacent fabric and does not
want to pull off. If I try to use M.E.K. it will not go through the velcro's
non-porus backing but will dissolve the Poly spray finish and make a big mess.
I may just Polytak the new Velcro onto the old "velcro". 'Open to suggestions
on this item.
'Hope to get back in the air before we head for Las Vegas next Sunday... Retirement
is great
Duane the plane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
John/Russ/Kolbers,
When they built Maules near here (Napoleon, MI to 1976, then moved to Moultrie,
GA), they used boiled linseed oil to coat (not fill) the tubing. I've heard of
some folks
who did fill their tubing on homebuilts, my A&P buddy says it's no harm but just
a bit of
overkill. He says just recoating periodically would suffice.
Finally getting near 50 in Michigan!
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | Im not recommending this, but anyone with a steel-tube aircraft may
> find it
> Steel tubes rust from the inside out, and this protects them
> worth
>
> Hi Russ/Gang:
>
> I bought a quart of Stitts Tube Seal in 1984 to do my Ultrastar. Then
> I did my FS, and also my MK III. I am a firm believer in tube seal to
> prevent internal corrosion in 4130 tube fuselages. Never had a
> fuselage yet, that came from the welding shop and did not have some
> pin holes, at least, for moisture to invade the inside of those
> unprotected tubes.
>
> Not being able to see the corrosion inside the tubes does not make the
> problem go away.
>
> I have had plenty occasions to inspect the inside of the tubes on my
> FS and US. Some of the tubes I missed treating with tube seal had a
> goodly amount of rust inside.
>
> It is a simple task to treat a fuselage. I use 1/8" drill bit and
> 1/8" aluminum closed end pop rivets. Run down to Doc Bryson's office,
> Ernie's Vet, and pick up a good size syringe and some big needles.
> The syringe is marked in CC's and the formula for the amount of tube
> seal is indicated in CC's per inch of what ever size tubing diameter.
>
> Your friend's fuselage must have been really big to hold twenty pound
> of tube seal. I am still working on the first quart I bought 20 years
> ago. Some of my friends have also done their Kolb's out of my quart
> of tube seal.
>
> Take care and thanks for the info,
>
> john h
>
>
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