---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/04/04: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:17 AM - Kevlar Boom tube repair (Kirk Smith) 2. 07:19 AM - Bent my bird! (Don Gherardini) 3. 07:38 AM - Re: Bent my bird! (Larry Bourne) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Bent my bird! (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Bent my bird! (John Hauck) 6. 08:06 AM - bent bird (Paul Petty) 7. 08:52 AM - Re: bent bird (Don Gherardini) 8. 09:59 AM - (no subject) (Terry) 9. 10:08 AM - Don's bent bid (Bob Bean) 10. 10:40 AM - Re: Bent my bird! (bryan green) 11. 10:40 AM - Re: bent bird (Christopher Armstrong) 12. 11:35 AM - Re: Bent my bird! (Bob N.) 13. 12:12 PM - photos (Paul Petty) 14. 12:49 PM - Re: Bent my bird! (John Cooley) 15. 02:40 PM - Re: photos (John Willamson) 16. 02:50 PM - Re: bent bird (Robert Dorsey) 17. 06:09 PM - Re: Bent my bird! (Denny Rowe) 18. 06:22 PM - First flight of the year. (Denny Rowe) 19. 06:36 PM - Upside Down (Mike Pierzina) 20. 07:04 PM - Re: bent bird (Don Gherardini) 21. 07:16 PM - Re: Bent my bird! (Fackler, Ken) 22. 07:25 PM - Re: I broke my Kolb (Fackler, Ken) 23. 09:12 PM - gas octaine (boyd young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:43 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: Kevlar Boom tube repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" I think it an interesting idea about the kevlar but only in using it as a sleeve in the intial installation. Run from the forward ring to aft of the H-section. It could give added strength and protection in that area. However the cage as is couldn't accept the extra diameter at the bolt area. To add the kevlar after the bolt would be a grave mistake as the kevlar would cause vibrations to become more focused at the bolt area which has already recieved damage seen and unseen at a molecular level from the prop strike. Kirk ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:02 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Alas and woe is me my friends, As I have now joined the ranks of the Kolb Benders club!....argfhhhh So, before you all hear it from else where..here is my story... Yesterday, after the rains have finally ceased and calm . blue skies returned to central illinois, I was enjoying my first flights of the spring. I took off from a closeby grass strip for the seasons first shakedown... Flew approx 15 minutes...a gallon of fuel or so, and landed back for a quick inspection. All seemed very well, and my brother and I checked the FireFly over to see if everthing was still connected! not a single entry on the gripe sheet...and the performance was perfect....actually seemed even better than perfect, but, as I have been groundbound since jan., it might have just been my anxious anticipation, and joy to be in flight ! So, after topping off the tank, I began preparations to make the 40 mile flight to the airpark will the firefly resides during the flying season. I departed and told my brother. who was goping to meet me over there to transport me home, I might just take the long way, as the day was beautiful and the need for air beneath my wings might not be satisfied in the duration of the short flight. climbed out to appros 1000 agl and leveled off...and soon discovered that the strut mods and cage covering had given me an solid 5 mph gain in indicated AS at my usual 5300rpm cruise setting....now...indicateing a solid 65 mph....wonderful! approx 8 to10 minutes into the flight, with the seasons first "Kolb smile"still plastered across my mug....I heard that sound that we all dread.."Silence" Quickly looking at the insturments, I saw no temps out of the green, and still had the electric fuel pump on. No spitting...no sputter, and no warning...it just quit...the suddeness of the shutdown was so that it caused me to check and see if I had somehow hit the kill switch!...which was still in the on position.. OK..no time for an engine overhaul just now...so I quickly found a nice clear feild with just the beginings of corn begining to push up in the rows.(actually the feild was right beneath me)...so I turned the nose into the wind.,, what little there was. noteing the faster than usual sink rate of a firefly with approx 9 gallons of fuel onboard, I steepend my glide to keep the speed up..looking good. to my great suprise....or foolishness....that feild was Very .very soft....and....it seemed that as soon as the mains hit...admittedly a little harder than I had hoped.....the mud grabbed and hung on, and I found myself upside down and inspecting those 3 inch corn stalks very closely. hmmm...dang..I hope nobody saw this I thought, and climbed out...thinking I hope I can get it rightside up before someone sees me! well...that was more foolishness... left wing tip busted...gear sprung, and cage bent with nose bowl messed up too! arghhh...... all fixable, and it is not the first time I have torn up on toy of mine...just the first time I have torn up an airplane! biggest dissapointment is.....I cant fly it tomorrow!.... wing fix wont be long...but the cage....dunno just yet how that is gonna go....hehe, I was wanting more elbow room! anybody know of a firefly cage outthere somewhere for sale? sent Linda an email just now to get a price on a new one....and I am not anxious to get her reply! Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm PLEASE .......DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" What a way to start the season, Don. Sure sorry to hear it, but glad you're OK. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" > > Alas and woe is me my friends, As I have now joined the ranks of the Kolb > Benders club!....argfhhhh > So, before you all hear it from else where..here is my story... > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:09 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Don Sorry to here about your plane. Ouch! Please let us know what caused the silence. I too flew of the first time (for the season) last night. I found my flying skills rusty but all ended well. I don't want to here any more of these stories. Remember over a long pause (yes I know you guys in the south don't need to pause for the winter) from flying, wait for good weather and check and recheck you airplanes. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" > > Alas and woe is me my friends, As I have now joined the ranks of the Kolb > Benders club!....argfhhhh > So, before you all hear it from else where..here is my story... > > Yesterday, after the rains have finally ceased and calm . blue skies > returned to central illinois, I was enjoying my first flights of the spring. > I took off from a closeby grass strip for the seasons first shakedown... > Flew approx 15 minutes...a gallon of fuel or so, and landed back for a quick > inspection. > All seemed very well, and my brother and I checked the FireFly over to see > if everthing was still connected! > not a single entry on the gripe sheet...and the performance was > perfect....actually seemed even better than perfect, but, as I have been > groundbound since jan., it might have just been my anxious anticipation, and > joy to be in flight ! > So, after topping off the tank, I began preparations to make the 40 mile > flight to the airpark will the firefly resides during the flying season. > I departed and told my brother. who was goping to meet me over there to > transport me home, I might just take the long way, as the day was beautiful > and the need for air beneath my wings might not be satisfied in the duration > of the short flight. > climbed out to appros 1000 agl and leveled off...and soon discovered that > the strut mods and cage covering had given me an solid 5 mph gain in > indicated AS at my usual 5300rpm cruise setting....now...indicateing a solid > 65 mph....wonderful! > approx 8 to10 minutes into the flight, with the seasons first "Kolb > smile"still plastered across my mug....I heard that sound that we all > dread.."Silence" > Quickly looking at the insturments, I saw no temps out of the green, and > still had the electric fuel pump on. > No spitting...no sputter, and no warning...it just quit...the suddeness of > the shutdown was so that it caused me to check and see if I had somehow hit > the kill switch!...which was still in the on position.. > > OK..no time for an engine overhaul just now...so I quickly found a nice > clear feild with just the beginings of corn begining to push up in the > rows.(actually the feild was right beneath me)...so I turned the nose into > the wind.,, what little there was. > noteing the faster than usual sink rate of a firefly with approx 9 gallons > of fuel onboard, I steepend my glide to keep the speed up..looking good. > to my great suprise....or foolishness....that feild was Very .very > soft....and....it seemed that as soon as the mains hit...admittedly a little > harder than I had hoped.....the mud grabbed and hung on, and I found myself > upside down and inspecting those 3 inch corn stalks very closely. > hmmm...dang..I hope nobody saw this I thought, and climbed out...thinking I > hope I can get it rightside up before someone sees me! > well...that was more foolishness... > left wing tip busted...gear sprung, and cage bent with nose bowl messed up > too! > arghhh...... > all fixable, and it is not the first time I have torn up on toy of > mine...just the first time I have torn up an airplane! > biggest dissapointment is.....I cant fly it tomorrow!.... > wing fix wont be long...but the cage....dunno just yet how that is gonna > go....hehe, I was wanting more elbow room! > > anybody know of a firefly cage outthere somewhere for sale? > > sent Linda an email just now to get a price on a new one....and I am not > anxious to get her reply! > > Don Gherardini > FireFly 098 > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > > PLEASE .......DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:17 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" glad you're | OK. Lar. | Larry Bourne Hi Don/All: Me too. Glad you did not get hurt. I know the feeling! Did you have the Hegar wheels and 15.00X6X6 tires installed? May not have helped in a fresh, wet corn field. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:23 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Dang Don, Sorry to hear but glad your buns and sense of humor are intact! Any idea why it quit yet? Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp www.c-gate.net/~ppetty do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:35 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" thx boys....for your concern of me... John...yes...had the wheels and tires on her.... went back this morning to the location....see if I missed any parts... stepped off 4 long steps of 2 tracks in the mud where the mains touched down....1 ...the left...went much deeper than the other..dont really know if it was because I had that wing down a bit(it was the upwind side)...or just because it was softer there. Anyway...along at about 8 or10 feet the rut was down to 8 to 10 inches deep, and the spot where the nose bowl hit and skidded for a bit was about right for this part of the wheel rut. looks like it on went a short bit...only a foot or 2 and then stopped....nose dug in deep and the left wingtip hit also as it went over..busting the wingtip bow from the leading edge and folding the outer ribs..and bending the alieron about 10 inches in from the tip.Apparantly, as she stood on her nose and dug into the mud...the cage longeron tubes buckled. overall distance from where the mains touched down and to where she lay updown was probably 20 feet or so Peeled the wing fabric last nite in the shop, and everything outboard of the spar is mashed, broken or bent....but no damage at all to the spar...the full rib on the end of the spar it also buckled. IF i were to have seen it from outside..it probably looked like a carrier landing...with the mains catching the wire instead of the hook! felt like I landed on flypaper! Paul, and Richard.... Still dont have a clue as to the stoppage....checked the spark last nite in the shop, and it was strong....looked at the plugs and they were perfect..pulled the fuel bowl and it was level full...along with the fuel pump working just fine still...checked the ignition wireing to try and find a problem....nothing... I still have the image of those engine guages stuck into my mind in bewilderment...chts....300 and 315......EGT 1200...maybe a needle over... .. didnt go any farther.....pulled the engine and set it on the bench...ahhh...so today... I am singing the 2 stroke blues....actually for the first time ever.. maybe I was just due after all these years of hearing the song from so many others! Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:09 AM PST US From: Terry Subject: Kolb-List: (no subject) --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Don, OUCH! Sorry to hear of your mishap, thankfully you seem to be OK! Boy, you seem to be taking this a lot better than I would. Waiting to hear what happened to your engine when you get it figured out. Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:49 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Kolb-List: Don's bent bid --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Sorry to hear also.....those soggy spring fields always gave me the creeps, lots of unwanted reflections from what would soon be welcome emergency sites Sure beats big trees and city streets though. -BB (deep alfalfa can slow you down in a hurry too) do not archive. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Kolb-List: re: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" Sorry ta hear about your plane Don, but glad your ok and able to fix it. DO NOT ARCHIVE Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:35 AM PST US From: "Christopher Armstrong" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" Glad to here your ok. two strokes can be a bugger. You have a guess at your touchdown speed? My standing plan, if I ever have another engine out, is to touch down just after stalling... hold it off as long as possible, even drop it a foot or so. It worked well for me on my first dead stick. I got real lucky on my roll out missing every rock and hole in an uneven rocky field. Sound like you found a real soft field, Tough break. Since you are the fastest builder on the list I expect you will be flying in a couple of months, unless you decide to get a 4 stroke to adapt to it while its down... some of those little Honda motorcycle engines still look like they might make a decent airplane motor! Topher -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Gherardini Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" thx boys....for your concern of me... John...yes...had the wheels and tires on her.... went back this morning to the location....see if I missed any parts... stepped off 4 long steps of 2 tracks in the mud where the mains touched down....1 ...the left...went much deeper than the other..dont really know if it was because I had that wing down a bit(it was the upwind side)...or just because it was softer there. Anyway...along at about 8 or10 feet the rut was down to 8 to 10 inches deep, and the spot where the nose bowl hit and skidded for a bit was about right for this part of the wheel rut. looks like it on went a short bit...only a foot or 2 and then stopped....nose dug in deep and the left wingtip hit also as it went over..busting the wingtip bow from the leading edge and folding the outer ribs..and bending the alieron about 10 inches in from the tip.Apparantly, as she stood on her nose and dug into the mud...the cage longeron tubes buckled. overall distance from where the mains touched down and to where she lay updown was probably 20 feet or so Peeled the wing fabric last nite in the shop, and everything outboard of the spar is mashed, broken or bent....but no damage at all to the spar...the full rib on the end of the spar it also buckled. IF i were to have seen it from outside..it probably looked like a carrier landing...with the mains catching the wire instead of the hook! felt like I landed on flypaper! Paul, and Richard.... Still dont have a clue as to the stoppage....checked the spark last nite in the shop, and it was strong....looked at the plugs and they were perfect..pulled the fuel bowl and it was level full...along with the fuel pump working just fine still...checked the ignition wireing to try and find a problem....nothing... I still have the image of those engine guages stuck into my mind in bewilderment...chts....300 and 315......EGT 1200...maybe a needle over... .. didnt go any farther.....pulled the engine and set it on the bench...ahhh...so today... I am singing the 2 stroke blues....actually for the first time ever.. maybe I was just due after all these years of hearing the song from so many others! Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:02 AM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." Geez what a way to start the season! Glad you're not injuried physically, but yer psyche has had major damage. Advice from former farm child-laborer: When the new corn comes up poppin', don't be you be droppin'(in) Bob N. FF070 do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:49 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: photos --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Here are some photos I made of the area of consern. http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030010.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030017.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030022.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030024.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030034.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/P5030038.JPG Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp www.c-gate.net/~ppetty do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:01 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Don, Really sorry to hear you bent your plane. I did something similar once trying to land in a spot too short and standing on the heel brakes caused the nose to go over and it dug in the dirt. At that time I wished the Firestar had a training skid on it as John H. calls them (see John H. some of us need training skids) fortunately I only messed up the nose cone, prop, gag seal (gasoline and lexan don't mix) and broke the seal on my BRS canister. No damage at all to the plane. Mine was from pure stupidity and inexperience. I learned a good lesson that day. I always fear the silence thing too. I hope I never experience that. Good luck with your rebuild and I'm thankful you are ok. Later, John Cooley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:56 PM PST US From: "John Willamson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: photos --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Willamson" Paul, It looks like that 1/4" tube is installed 2" to far aft when compared to my Kolbra fuselage. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 564 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:46 PM PST US From: Robert Dorsey Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Dorsey I had a failure just like that. Thought I inadvertently bumped the kill switch. Turned out it was the kill switch. Somehow shorted out to ground while in flight. Bob >Paul, and Richard.... >Still dont have a clue as to the stoppage....checked the spark last nite in >the shop, and it was strong....looked at the plugs and they were >perfect..pulled the fuel bowl and it was level full...along with the fuel >pump working just fine still...checked the ignition wireing to try and find >a problem....nothing... > I still have the image of those engine guages stuck into my mind in >bewilderment...chts....300 and 315......EGT 1200...maybe a needle over... >.. >didnt go any farther.....pulled the engine and set it on the >bench...ahhh...so today... I am singing the 2 stroke blues....actually for >the first time ever.. >maybe I was just due after all these years of hearing the song from so many >others! > >Don Gherardini >OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. >American Honda Engines >Power Equipment Company >CortLand, Illinois >800-626-7326 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:26 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Don, I also am glad you are uninjured. What a bummer to have to rebuild this time of year. Keep that bright outlook going, you are a real inspiration to us all. Denny Rowe do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:06 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Kolb-List: First flight of the year. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Kolbers, Got a call from Will last night that he was in the area. Worked out perfect that I was off work today so I spent the day doing the final Spring cleaning and preping to get the Mk-3 back in the air. We got back to the airport this evening and after I made a few circuits around the pattern solo to check for problems and shake the rust loose, I took Will for a jaunt around the neighborhood. He said he knew he wasn't in West Texas anymore, they sure have thin blood out that way, sorry if I froze ya buddy. :-) Sure was nice to get back in the air again, won't be long till Wellsville rolls around, hope we can get good weather now. Later, Denny Rowe, Mk-3, 2SI 690L-70, Powerfin, Leechburg, PA do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:46 PM PST US From: "Mike Pierzina" Subject: Kolb-List: Upside Down --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" Hey Don, Glad to hear your alright...and your spirits... sounds like your on a mission now... When you were upside down , Did your fuel stay where it was suppose to...and if there were leaks, where were they....? I've tried to set my fuel system up to prevent that...and I'm sure you did too...so it would be nice to hear that it worked good, especialy with so much fuel on board... Gotta Fly... Mike in MN do not archive --- My Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down... Gotta Fly... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:15 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent bird --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Holy cow fellas....thank you all for all these kind words... Well I dont know if I will ever know for certain why that engine quit. Feels funny to, as I spend so much time at work analyzing failures! About all I can determine is the switch..since it is the only spot in the circuit that is not soldered., meaning I have no "quick connects" or unsoldered splices or connections in that circuit, must have been the culprit. Trouble is, I cannot duplicate it certainly after 4 hours today of fooling arouind with it. no water in the bowl...new fuel...bowl full....arghh....I hate not being able to be certain about worse than bending my bird ! On the Cuyuna, the ignition grounds in the on position...opposite of a rotax....so if the switch somehow went open inside...that would have stopped the engine., and since it stopped with out a sputter.....it would seem it lost fire....even tho we had spark when we got it in the shed. As far as another engine...well....I am certainly not against a different brand....although this is the first time a Cuyuna has failed me...heck even after burning Hole in a piston in a snowmobile ...it still ran on the other cyl!..Drove the dang thing 5 mile home in fact! Topher, The Honda just wont do....it is not going to be light enough....and as I have been flying the Fly at gross and slightly over....I know very well what happend to the sink rate from a heavy Firefly with that short wing....you run out of elevator way sooner on flare than you want to...and you really need to keep up the speed before letting the wheels touch..or you will bounce it pretty hard...with the stick in your belly. about theonly way I would consider a vtwin industrial at this point, is if I extended the wings....Like a firestar, and then....I dont think the Honda would give me the speed I want.. Ralph...I would absoultley love to have that HKS on her...but again...I think its too heavy for a FireFly.. So...arghh....who out here has another 40 hp class engine for sale>?.....Tom Olenick...you ot there?..what is the latest on the 447?.....Rotax quit em yet?....can ya still buy parts?....whats in the wind? FYI....DONT bend your cage men, got a quote from carol (TNK co) today...a firefly cage is 2500 bucks!... Paul.....how much did ya have to give for that TIG???? Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 PM PST US From: "Fackler, Ken" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bent my bird! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" Gosh, Don, I'm so glad to hear you survived and apparently without injury. Good on you! And good luck with your rebuild. -Ken do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:53 PM PST US From: "Fackler, Ken" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: I broke my Kolb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" For those of you interested in what's going on with me and my broken bird: "Tailboom, the tribe has spoken. It's time for you to go!" Now it's just a question of seeing if I can find the tailboom locally or not. Again, I appreciate everyone's thoughts, suggestions, and in particular, the warnings about what would constitute bad engineering practices. All I know about these infernal machines is that if you pull back on the stick the houses get smaller and if you push on it the houses get bigger. So, wish me (and my pals) luck! -Ken Fackler Kolb Mark II / A722KWF Rochester MI ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:20 PM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: gas octaine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" ? So what's the deal here? Does the higher octane last longer? Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp do not archive car gas is designed to be used up right away... av gas is designed diferently and wont degrade ofer time.... there was a 182 that had been damaged on the ramp where i fly, it had sat for over 8 years.... they put in a new batery and it fired up right away... they disasembled the carb for libility reasonss when they put the pland back into service and it was clean with no deposits. boyd