---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/20/04: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:03 AM - Re: oil temps tooo low?, well, not really. (Jim Gerken) 2. 05:04 AM - Kolbra #1 for sale (Rayfield, Bill) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: the claw (Larry Bourne) 4. 09:10 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 41 Msgs - 05/19/04 (William George) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: Photo Hosting (John Cooley) 6. 10:05 AM - Re: I'm OK, bird is bent, very thankful (Ben Ransom) 7. 10:32 AM - Re: TNK website inaccessible (Giovanni Day) 8. 05:32 PM - Re: Fw: portable tie downs (Larry Cottrell) 9. 06:06 PM - Re: Fw: portable tie downs (Larry Bourne) 10. 07:59 PM - Re: I'm OK, bird is bent, very thankful (GeoR38@aol.com) 11. 08:16 PM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 41 Msgs - 05/19/04 (Vic) 12. 09:52 PM - Intercom system (John Cooley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: oil temps tooo low?, well, not really. From: Jim Gerken 05/20/2004 07:00:16 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken Thanks Richard, here's some more info. Two nites ago I flew again and noted higher oil temps indicated on the gauge, relating to the higher ambient air temp (68) I suppose. The highest indicated reading I noted was 157 F. Upon landing I checked the oil temp with the use of a lab instrument from work. This is a little digital handheld device the size of a pack of cigs, with a remote thermocouple. At Hans' suggestion, I taped the thermocouple to the end of the dipstick and pushed it into the oil. It read 190 F. I clicked on the power and read the instrument on the dash of the aircraft and it read 150 F at that moment. Then I dried the oil off and reinstalled the dipstick and used the thermocouple to measure the temp of the oil cooler plate, and the side of the oil pan extension. Both these measured 150, the same as the instrument in the dash. My conclusion is that since the sender for the oil temp gauge is screwed into the side of the oil pan extension, even though it extends thru the metal and into the oil at almost the bottom of the liquid (1/4" above bottom plate), the sender is being influenced by the contact with the metal it is mounted to. If I continue to use this sender/location, I will add 40 degrees F to the readings for "actual". So, 157 (last nites high) + 40 equals 197. 197 oil temp in 68 degrees ambient air temp condition seems more reasonable to me. Adding 20 to the ambient, for 88, the engine oil temp would also climb 20, for a peak of about 217, still reasonable. For 98 degrees ambient, probably the warmest conditions I will ever fly in, would yield about 227 oil temp, assuming all this remains linear (I've been told this is the case, by a "thermal expert"). I will continue to do the comparison as the ambient gets warmer so I get some sanity that the adder is always 40. My gauge drives a big indicator lite on the dash, which is to draw my attention to the gauge if either the pressure or temp exceeds predefined limits. I set the limits, both upper and lower on pressure, and upper on temp. I can set the temperature limit 40 degrees lower, and mark the dash with a placard to "Add 40 degrees to indicated for oil temp". Question: if using synthetic, can we safely operate the oil temps to 250 F? I feel we can do so, any higher than this I would want to change it more often than once per season (which may be about 50 hours). What's your opinion on safe temp ranges versus oil lifespan? Thanks >________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > >Time: 09:41:45 AM PST US >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >.Subject: Re: Kolb-List: oil temps tooo low??!! >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >I have a similar low oil temp problem with my VW that is improved some what >with a oil thermostat. Since you don't have a oil cooler that will not help >you. You may need to insulate the oil pan from the cooling air. Do this very >causally a bit at a time. Also make sure that the oil temp sender is not out >in the cool air. If cool air is cooling the sending unit you will get a >false low oil temp reading. Count you blessings a low temp issue is always >easer to fix than a high temp issue. Please keep us up to date on you BMW. >The BMW was one of the other engines I considered. >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW powered MKIIIc >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Gerken" >Subject: Kolb-List: oil temps tooo low??!! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken > > I need some advice from you engine gurus. My Mkiii with BMW flew last > week for the first time. The 1991 BMW R100 is a 4-cycle 1000cc air cooled > flat opposed twin with pressurized oil system with wet sump. To the basic > engine, I added a sump extension to lower the oil 2 inches away from the > crank and camshafts, and I put a pan cover on the bottom of that of quarter > inch aluminum. The aluminum pan cover plate is 12 x 18 inches, also > serving as the motor mount bed, connecting to the shock mounts near the > corners. Originally there was an external finned aluminum oil cooler on > the motorcycle this engine came from, but based on Hans' experience, I did > not use that. There is an oil temp sender unit threaded into a hole in the > side of the pan extension, submerged in the oil, detecting oil temp. This > sender reads ambient temp perfectly before flight. In flight, at ambient > temps of about 40 degrees F, the max oil temp I noted was 137 F. Figuring > it will go up linearly (i have been told by an expert that this is true), > at ambient of 80, the oil temp will read about 177. > I feel this may be too low of an operating oil temp. What do you guys > feel is a good oil temp to reach to drive out water and keep the engine > healthy? I understand the max should be kept below 250 or so, but what > about the minimum? Water boils off at 212 at sea level, but is about 175 > degrees F enough to encourage the water to varporize and leave the oil even > though it doesn't actually boil off? Are there any other reasons this may > be too cool (besides the water issue)? > I will continue to evaluate this, but any input on desired temp ranges > would be helpfull. BTW, how does the Rotax 912 control oil temps, and what > range do those see in operation? Also, how are the temps measured, and > how can the sender units kept from being influenced by the metal they are > mounted by? > > > Jim Gerken Jim Gerken ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolbra #1 for sale From: "Rayfield, Bill" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rayfield, Bill" Gentlemen, Much to my regret, I have decided to sell my Kolbra kit. I just don't think I'll finish it after my father's death. Here are the details: Kolbra cockpit serial #1 (first demonstrator ever made by TNK), complete, upholstered, painted, doors done, some instruments, controls, brake cyls on front rudder pedals. Color is purple and orange over white (like the current factory demo). This cockpit had the wings and tail removed to put on the new demo plane. No kits were ever sold with this body style, so this would be a one of a kind. Complete fuse kit, boom tube, tail kit, landing gear (tundra tires). No brakes. No electrical. Complete wing kit, ribs already built by TNK. No electrical. There is no engine. The instruments included are dual EGT, VSI, airspeed and tach. I've priced what it would cost to buy the components from TNK. This does not include any labor, paint, covering, upholstery. There's some really nice, custom work here guys. I want someone to take over this project and make it fly (and maybe give me a ride when you're done!). I hate to sell this, but I can't watch it sitting here. The cost of components is $13750. That is my asking price. I have pictures available and will send to anyone interested. They are large. Please inquire directly back to me brayfield@kcc.com Bill Rayfield Kimberly-Clark, Corp. Lexington Mill ph: 336-242-6653 fax: 336-242-6633 This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ============================================================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:52 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: the claw --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" How long are those rods ?? Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: the claw > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Denny/Gang > > These work great! > http://www.theclaw.com/ > > Paul Petty > Building Ms. Dixie > Kolbra/912UL/Warp > www.c-gate.net/~ppetty > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:46 AM PST US From: William George Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 41 Msgs - 05/19/04 --> Kolb-List message posted by: William George Good on ya Lar! Nice photos. Made us non-attendees drool a bit do not archive Bill George Hawaii Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin On May 19, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > From: "Larry Bourne" > Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Pics > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > Got started on this and couldn't stop...........or didn't think to > stop. Man, > the time went fast, and I can't believe it's 2:00 AM. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:58 AM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Photo Hosting --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Doug/Gang, All I get when trying to go to the web site links was a blank page. I went to the main website and registered etc. but if I understand correctly you have to invite folks to view your photo albums by entering their email addresses. I was interested in seeing what you did for a hanger as that's something I will be doing in the next year or so. Later, John Cooley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Doug Lawton" Hello To All, They allow you to build a photo album, put captions on each photo, rearrange the photos in relation to each other, upload multiple photos at one time, and it's all free. On top of that, if you decide you'd like a printed greeting card, a calendar, or a blowup of the print, etc. they can make that for you as well for a reasonable price. I built one album documenting the entire building process of our new hangar at Matthews Field near Whitwell TN. 134 photos and growing. See http://www.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=59857436403&page=1&sort_or der=0 But the nice thing is, it's fairly fast loading with all thumbnail sized pics, and if you want to see the full sized image and read the caption, just click on it. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:22 AM PST US From: Ben Ransom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: I'm OK, bird is bent, very thankful --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom John, Wow, just reading it scares the hell out of me. 900 ft descent thru 0 visabilty gives waaaaaay too much time to think about possible outcomes. Most of us don't know you, but sure are glad you got thru it. I too think about the responsibility we have to our families etc, to not screw up. It's a weighty thing. We're all human so mistakes are guaranteed. All we can do is admit to them, and make every attempt to be smarter. Glad you still get to do the really good things, like see your daughter graduate, etc. Best of luck getting back into the air. -Ben Ransom --- BICUM@aol.com wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: BICUM@aol.com > > Hello list, > > Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm OK. Several people have > called and > checked on me. I was kinda amazed how fast word got out. John H > called me > on my way home the very next day (thanks Paul P.). For a second I > thought John > H had a laptop and a satellite connection in Miss P'fer. > > Nothing to say but I screwed up. Let myself get trapped on top of > ground fog > which started developing at the end of my first leg. This is turn > led to > fuel starvation and an off-field landing. It was complicated by a > descent through > ~ 900 ft of fog (0 visibility) and popping out 200 - 300 AGL. I'm an > > official FAA incident/accident. Just a series of small decisions that > I let put me in > a bad situation. I always thought I was a better and safer pilot > than that. > It is scary how easy it is to let "getthereitis" put you in a bad > situatuion. > Never thought it would happen to me but it sure did. > > The details of the story are kinda long. If interested in learning > from my > mistakes, let me know and I'll write a detailed chain of events. I'll > have to > check the list rules about length of post. It scared the heck out > me. > Depending on your religious orientation, I was very, very lucky or > GOD stepped in and > flew for a while. It kinda looks like He handed the controls back to > me at > about flare time. That is when the plane got bent. Blew out the > landing gear > and bent some tubes in the cage. For those that don't know, there is > basically > no flare during an engine out. > > The important stuff - > Didn't hurt anyone else or damage anyone else's property. > I walked away without a scratch (except the briars in the hayfield). > Landed in the hayfield of some truly nice Texas farm folk. > I'm here to write this note and can attend my daughter graduation > from USAF > basic training. > I won't be able to respond for a few days. We are leaving in just a > couple > of hours for Lackland AFB in San Antonio to see my youngest daughter > graduate > from basic. > > I'm truly sorry that I let this happen. I let my family down and put > a bit > of a black mark on the flying community. My deepest apologies. > > Thanks to everyone for checking on me and showing so much concern. I > hope > everyone had a great time in MV. Wish I could have been there, but > am thankful > that I'm just here. > > Thanks & be careful, > > John Bickham > St. Francisville, LA > Kolb Mark III Classic - 912 > > > > > > > > ===== http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom __________________________________ http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:47 AM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: TNK website inaccessible --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" I just spoke to Travis and he said it was being looked at. Giovanni Day --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" I just tried to connect to the TNK website (http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/) and got the following message. Have they changed their URL or is there another problem anyone knows about? Domain Inaccessable This domain has been suspended or does not exist on this server, please contact your hosting provider Thom in Buffalo do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:39 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: portable tie downs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" airtime@proaxis.com Denny, Email this guy, he makes the titanium ones that you are talking about. I just got a set before we went to MV. Get his "kit", it has every thing. Ask him to make the ropes a bit longer for you though. Tell him I sent you. His name is Randy Simpson. Larry, Oregon > Does anyone know the web page or source for portable tiedowns. I was looking for the titanium ones that an RV builder used to sell and could not find them on Vans home page, also give me your opinions on which you folks like. > > Thanks, > Denny Rowe, Kolb Mk-3, PA > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:29 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: portable tie downs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I like the idea someone came up with last week. Make your own out of 3 long spikes and 3 lengths of chain joined in the center. Put a spike thru each end, and hook your tie down rope in the middle. The spikes in the kit are, I think, 18.5" long, so I figure I'll make mine 24" and go for it. John Williamson has the slickest tie down rope set-up I've ever seen. Maybe we can talk him into some pics ???? :-) Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: portable tie downs > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > > airtime@proaxis.com > > Denny, > Email this guy, he makes the titanium ones that you are talking about. I > just got a set before we went to MV. Get his "kit", it has every thing. Ask ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:13 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: I'm OK, bird is bent, very thankful --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 5/20/04 1:05:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bwr000@yahoo.com writes: > > I too think about the responsibility we have to our families etc, to > not screw up. It's a weighty thing. We're all human so mistakes are > guaranteed. All we can do is admit to them, and make every attempt to > be smarter. Glad you still get to do the really good things, like see > your daughter graduate, etc. > > Best of luck getting back into the air. > -Ben Ransom > > > --- BICUM@aol.com wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: BICUM@aol.com > > > >Hello list, > > > >Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm OK. Several people have > >called and > >checked on me. I was kinda amazed how fast word got out. John H > >called me > >on my way home the very next day (thanks Paul P.). For a second I > >thought John > >H had a laptop and a satellite connection in Miss P'fer. > > > >Nothing to say but I screwed up. John Bickam...you are a special guy as you survived physically and the mental anguish of penetrating 900 ft of mist and potentially fatal uncertainty...having no idea whether or not the mist would carry you all the way to the ground. I never experienced that, but twice I lost track of time and found myself floundering around in the dark, not being able to see the ground....or hardly anything for that matter. I survived both times, without any problems at all except for the anguish part, and my survival showed me how special I was, too. Special, because ....I wasn't the only one flying that plane.....and I know it. Firestar driver of "by George" from The Villages....was Akron O 447, 3 blade Ivo, 206#...but losin ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:46 PM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 41 Msgs - 05/19/04 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" Does anyone on the list know what a B-1 Bomber cost? I think I owe the Air Force for one. I was on final to runway 33, Hickum Field, Hawaii, in the fog, one engine out this afternoon. I managed to get the plane to the runway but when I touched down I discovered the runway was icy. Ice in Hawaii? Send donations to Vic. Thank goodness it was in a simulator. A Kolb is blast to fly but a B-1 at 150 feet AGL, 520 knots, in the Rocky Mountains is wild. Vic Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:39 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: Kolb-List: Intercom system --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Hi Gang, Looking for some advice. I plan on installing a Sigtronics intercom system in my MK III. I am curious to know if the SPA 400 system will work ok or if the SPA 400S will work better. The S version is supposed to be for high noise environments. Anyone have experience with both? The SPA 400 is on Ebay all the time. Have not seen the 400S there yet. Any and all responses are appreciated. Later, John Cooley