---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/29/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:26 AM - Re: Email Problems (GeoR38@aol.com) 2. 05:35 AM - Re: FW: Quick weight and balance (Eugene Zimmerman) 3. 06:15 AM - Re: quick W&B (Bob Bean) 4. 07:54 AM - MV Pictures (John Hauck) 5. 10:06 AM - Re: MV Pictures (John Willamson) 6. 10:20 AM - More MV Flight (John Hauck) 7. 10:25 AM - Re: MV Pictures (John Hauck) 8. 10:44 AM - Re: MV Pictures (Kirk Smith) 9. 01:45 PM - Re: MV Pictures (Ladyrat01@aol.com) 10. 03:24 PM - Re: MV Pictures aka git me outa here (Bob N.) 11. 04:37 PM - Re: MV Pictures (Edward Chmielewski) 12. 07:23 PM - Re: Help, I've fallen and I can't get out... (Richard Pike) 13. 07:40 PM - Re: Fuel at North East Kolb gathering?thumbs (Denny Rowe) 14. 07:54 PM - Re: Fuel at North East Kolb gathering? (Denny Rowe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:08 AM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Email Problems --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 05/28/2004 11:18:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, swiderski@rocketjet.net writes: My email is erratic in being posted, gets refused (undeliverable)at times & sometimes works fine. I tried disabling Norton Antivirus & had no change. Any ideas out there? Richard Swiderski Richard, when I run up against a wall on the internet, I always call up Aol Technical help and they ALWAYS can help to at least some extent....dunno if they will take you being non aol, but they have fixed non aol problems for me....just a thought.... yer bud George Randolph ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:34 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: FW: Kolb-List: Quick weight and balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman Ok, If Homer or Dennis approved that method then I am in error. Shoot!,,,, Now that is my second mistake,,,,, the first was when I thought I was wrong but I wasn't. : ) Does the faa also approve? Richard Swiderski wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" > > > Eugene, > Actually, Homer discussed it with me & said he did it that way > himself (we were talking about an UltraStar which has no root tube.) The > laws of physics do not care if the plane is balancing from the top or the > bottom, its all the same. Regarding the root tube, I personally believe it > would have no trouble supporting twice the weight, they are very robust, but > there are always scales if one is in doubt. Bob, your mentioning the angle > of attack that the plane would be hanging at is indeed relative to the > process, if the tail is way low then more weight would need to be shifted > forward, if it were hanging from the rear of the cg range. ...Richard > Swiderski > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman > > > I'll bet you'll never get the designer of the plane to agree that that > is an acceptable method to cg test a kolb. > > The root tube is not designed to support the total weight of plane and > pilot at the cg. > > > Richard Swiderski wrote: > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" > > > >>Duane, >> That's exactly what I did for my cg test on my UltraStar, I hung > > her > >>from a tree! It was easier & quite straight forward. >> >>Richard Swiderski >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H MITCHELL >>To: kolblist >>Subject: Kolb-List: Quick weight and balance >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" >> >>I have been shopping for scales to use in light plane weight and balance. >>Using the tail stand, plumb line, steel tape and doubled up bathroom > > scales > >>to weigh each wheel after placing the blocks the same height as the scale >>under the other two wheels gets really cumbersome. If the object of this >>effort is to locate the center of balance wouldn't it be easier to attach > > a > >>come-along to one of the overhead beams in my hanger and lift the plane at >>different points on the root tube to determine the balance point? Side to >>side and wing attitude would have to be resolved but it sounds easier than >>scrambling around with the scales/blocks/calculator/plumb etc.? Of course >>you would not get the aircraft total weight but that could be done on a >>truck scale with real accuracy if needed. >> >>Duane the plane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL, Mk3/912 >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:10 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Kolb-List: re: quick W&B --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Group, to CMA on what I said about attitude using the suspension method....obviously you would experimentally find the point where, when you hoisted the plane, it would be near level or flight attitude. The reason for the 9deg stance using the conventional method is because the weighing points are so far away from the actual CG giving large possible vector errors. The longer the gear legs, the more error. (picture 10 foot long legs). Ideally you would lift it at the actual CG which would be an imaginary point somewhere just beneath the wing in the cage---a little difficult. -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:52 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Morning Gang: Got home from MV last Fri morning at 0800. Departed for Brunswick, GA, Mon morning. Got back from Brunswick at last light Thu. Have spent the last three weeks in the MKIII. This is a good way to get back into "cross country" shape for the flight to Alaska the end of June. Looks like I will be doing a solo flight north for the third time, not counting the aborted flight to Muncho Lake, BC, in 2000. I have some picture up on my index page I took during the flight to MV. The address for the page is: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/ Click on the file and it will bring up the pic. I'll try to describe the pics as I find time. The first is a shot crossing the Mississippi River on the morning of the first day flying west: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0173_resize.JPG Patterns of irrigated fields in West Texas: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0178_resize.JPG These wind mills are gigantic. For a size comparison, take a look at the houses in the lower left, then compare to the size of the blades on the wind mills: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0180_resize.JPG AH! Things are getting better. The first sight of the Rocky Mountains in New Mexico: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0184_resize.JPG After landing in Canon City, CO, in a 37 mph cross wind, I am met by my flying buddy, John Williamson, at the end of my second day of flying. John W flew up from Arlington, TX, with a nice tail wind in 6+ hours, compared to 13.5 hours from Alabama. John W is warming up the 912S for takeoff and our assault on Leadville, CO, highest airport in the Continental US, 9,926 feet ASL: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0188_resize.JPG Climbing out over Canon City, CO. We are flying into the Rockies: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0188_resize.JPG That's Royal Gorge and the highest suspension bridge in the World, over 1,000 feet above the river: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0192_resize.JPG Rugged terrain around Royal Gorge: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0192_resize.JPG Following the road and river into the Rockies: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0197_resize.JPG There's some big ones out there: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0199_resize.JPG Just beyond Buena Vista, CO, the pass was closed by weather. We were about 32 miles from Leadville, CO. Oh well, we will save Leadville for another day: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0206_resize.JPG As we fly south out of Buena Vista, we fly through a snow storm, as the weather comes rolling in over the big mountains on the west side of the valley. Nothing to play with up here at altitudes well over 9,000 feet: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0208_resize.JPG Climbing to 12,000 feet clear the pass and head south down the valley to Alamosa, CO: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0210_resize.JPG The highway through the pass lies far below: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0210_resize.JPG We made it. Soon we'll fly out from under the weather that was full of snow. Felt strange to fly into a snow storm the middle of May: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0213_resize.JPG Wind was kicking up, rough as Hell, over this high valley at over 8,000 feet: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0214_resize.JPG More valley: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0216_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0219_resize.JPG The Kolbra and MKIII were covered with a thick layer of frost and the OAT was 26F as we prepared to takeoff from Alamosa Airport, CO. Here we are climbing out of Alamosa to make the pass to the SW. I went full throttle on take off and did not touch the throttle lever again until I started my decent on the other side of the Continental Divide: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0222_resize.JPG High in the Rockies. No sigh of human disturbance of Mother Nature. No trails, roads, cabins, or man made structures in sight: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0229_resize.JPG More Rockies. I climbed to 13,300 feet to clear the pass: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0230_resize.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0239_resize.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0241_resize.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0244_resize.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0244_resize.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0247_resize.JPG After clearing the Rockies, our ability to judge distance was somewhat impaired. Both John W and I thought we were right on top of the next airport when I took this pic. We could not find it. The GPS said it was still 6 or 7 miles to the west. Sure enough, the GPS was right. I do not know why we were so far off, other than the great size of the mountains we had just flown over. This is beautiful high country in New Mexico: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0248_resize.JPG John W basks in the morning sun at Apache airfield. I think the field elevation was aprx'ly 8,400 feet ASL. We both decided we would build us a cabin up here and spend the summer. I saw one red pickup truck driving through the area as we were setting up for our approach. No other people were detected in the area. This strip is used primarily for fire fighting: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0249_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0251_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0252_resize.JPG This was at Navaho State Park, NM. The airstrip is on top a high butte. Strip starts at the very edge of the butte and ends at the edge of the west end. We were 32 sm from Farmington, NM: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0255_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0257_resize.JPG On final approach to Farmington, NM. Ship Rock can be seen on the horizon: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0259_resize.JPG Takeoff from Farmington. John W can be seen on the left climbing out: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0260_resize.JPG West of Farmington: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0262_resize.JPG Desert rules. Only green is around available water, like the river in this pic: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0263_resize.JPG Ship Rock: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0264_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0265_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0267_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0268_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0271_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0272_resize.JPG Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0273_resize.JPG Stand off at Bluff, Utah. John W prepares to takeoff, as soon as I get out of his way. This is our last leg to MV: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0274_resize.JPG This is about halfway through the pics I want to share with the Kolb List on the MV flight. I'll try and get the rest of them up with an explanation ASAP. My flight out and back, the flyin and the comaraderie we all experienced was priceless. I hope everyone can meet us for the Third Annual Unorganized/Unplanned Kolb Flying next May 2005. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:02 AM PST US From: "John Willamson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Willamson" Welcome back John H I particularly like this photo you took: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0281_resize.JPG I had a great time and am already looking forward to next year. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 597 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:15 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: More MV Flight --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Hi Gang: A few pics slipped through the crack on me. I wanted to include them also. I will finish up on the remainder of the flight ASAP. Climbing up into the Rockies on the way to Leadville. I was recon'ing fire roads and trails for possible visit later on with the 5th wheel and Suzuki DRZ400E: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0200.jpg South of Buena Vista, CO, flying north: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0202.jpg Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0203.jpg Same: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0204.jpg John W and the two Kolbs after a cool down the night before at Alamosa, CO. Aircraft were covered with a thick layer of frost in the 26F air. Think Alamosa Airport is over 8,400 feet ASL: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0220.jpg Check the altimeter. It is coming down through 12,250 feet ASL. OAT was 15F. CHT is on the bottom peg at 120F. Eng oil temp is about 150F. Normally, these temps are running 180F and 230F. This is the first time the throttle came back off WOT since departure from Alamosa, CO, well over an hour. Looking out over the mountains, one can see the lower valleys that are still over 8,000 feet ASL: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0236.jpg John W at Apache Airport, Dulce, NM, proudly standing next to his steed, the Kolb Kolbra powered with a 912S Rotax: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0250.jpg Miss P'Fer ("P" fer plane) waits patiently while her Daddy stands in awe of the beautiful Rocky Mountain Ranges, Apache Airstrip, Dulce, NM: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0253.jpg A shot of the big mountains from Apache State Park Airport, NM, looking north to the Rocky Mountains: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/DSCF0254.jpg It is hard to describe the feelings experienced flying in this part of the country, high over the Rockies, in a little airplane built in ones basement. Take care, john h MKIII: 2,055.5 hours Rotax 912ULS: 709.5 hours ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:41 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV%202004%20Upload/DSCF0281_resize.JPG | | I had a great time and am already looking forward to next year. | | | John Williamson | Arlington, TX | | Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 597 hours Hi John W/Gang: Thanks, friend!!! One of the best cloud and blue sky pictures I have ever taken. I plan on framing that one and hanging it on the outhouse wall........... :-) Well, you jumped the gun on me. I was going to explain the cloud pic when I got to it. It was taken soon after we departed Bluff, Utah, on our last leg into MV. We had been flying rough and extremely rough air since leaving home. That day was no different. I was trying to take some pics of MV as the monuments came into view for the first time. Just as I pushed the shutter release, Miss P'fer got knocked up by a big up draft. It was not easy taking pics and flying that day. hehehe Take care, john h MKIII: 2,055.5 hours Rotax 912ULS: 709.5 hours ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:55 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Great pics John. Thanks for sharing them. It's something I'll only dream of doing. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:51 PM PST US From: Ladyrat01@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ladyrat01@aol.com i do not want to be on this list get me off ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:52 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures aka git me outa here --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." dere LadyRat, If'n y'all Ratness rilly wonts ta get shet of thishere list, jes follow the printed instructions at bottom of list. It's the second line under List related information. Lemme know if you can't do it , an' Ahl have the Beeg Mahoof do it fer ya. kindnessly, Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:48 PM PST US From: "Edward Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" Ladyrat01, Sorry, you have to get yourself off... by scrolling to the bottom of the addresses to the "Subscribe/Unsubscribe" line. Do not archive. Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Pictures > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ladyrat01@aol.com > > i do not want to be on this list get me off > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:27 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help, I've fallen and I can't get out... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Another confused & demoralized Challenger owner, I suppose... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive At 04:42 PM 5/29/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ladyrat01@aol.com > >i do not want to be on this list get me off > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:21 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel at North East Kolb gathering?thumbs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Gary, Fathers Day weekend June 18-19 &20 at Shreeveport North Airport, Wellsville, PA. > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary Thacker" > > When and where is the gathering? > > > Gary > > Souderton,Pa. > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:27 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel at North East Kolb gathering? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > > > Dennis, > > Shreveport North has had a fuel wagon available in the past at the Fathers Day fly-in. I would assume they will again. Also there is a gas > station right next to Smoketown Airport and folks there will help you out to get auto gas on your flight to or from Homers. > > Will be updating the list of Homer fly-in participants after the holidays. Also will be checking with Homer about times and such. > > Terry - FireFly #95 > > Awesome Terry, Now all we'll need is good weather. Thanks again for all your leg work. Denny do not archive