Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - 1st pull (al bumhoffer)
2. 06:00 AM - Sorry Matt, List (al bumhoffer)
3. 06:06 AM - Where to buy gap seal velcro (WillUribe@aol.com)
4. 07:33 AM - Re: 1st pull (Don Gherardini)
5. 11:16 AM - FireStar II (Ken korenek)
6. 11:19 AM - Re: 5 Rib FireStar Wings (Bruce Harrison)
7. 11:36 AM - Phx Xtra Crash (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
8. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Hirth engine (jerb)
9. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Hirth engine (woody)
10. 01:59 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (John Cooley)
11. 02:09 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (Richard Pike)
12. 02:30 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (jam'n)
13. 02:49 PM - q (russkinne)
14. 04:40 PM - gap seal (possums)
15. 05:23 PM - Re: uncle craig crashes (CRAIG M NELSON)
16. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Don Gherardini)
17. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Giovanni Day)
18. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Richard Swiderski)
19. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Don Gherardini)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer <abumhoffer@yahoo.com>
I started the 503 DCDI on my Firestat II on July 5th
for the 1st time and it ran on the 1st pull. I just
need to put the tail feathers and wings back on and do
some other odds and ends, and weight and balance, etc.
I plan on using the fabric gap seal but need to buy
the velcro. I looked in the archives but did not find
a source. I know this has been discussed before.
Would you suggest buying from TNK Co., other source,
or forget about the fabric gap seal altogether?
Al Bumhoffer, FirestarII
Elkton, MI
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 2
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| Subject: | Sorry Matt, List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer <abumhoffer@yahoo.com>
Sorry Matt, I forgot to add the Do Not Archive to my
last post. Al Bumhoffer, Firestar II
Do Not Archive
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 3
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| Subject: | Where to buy gap seal velcro |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
You can find velcro in the fabric department at Walmart.
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
Do not archive and my apologies to anyone who is offended by this post.
In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:58:08 AM Mountain Standard Time,
abumhoffer@yahoo.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer <abumhoffer@yahoo.com>
I started the 503 DCDI on my Firestat II on July 5th
for the 1st time and it ran on the 1st pull. I just
need to put the tail feathers and wings back on and do
some other odds and ends, and weight and balance, etc.
I plan on using the fabric gap seal but need to buy
the velcro. I looked in the archives but did not find
a source. I know this has been discussed before.
Would you suggest buying from TNK Co., other source,
or forget about the fabric gap seal altogether?
Al Bumhoffer, FirestarII
Elkton, MI
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Al,
You can get the industrail strength Velcro locally.....Ace Hdwe has it here
too.
AS far as the fabric gap seal.....I tossed mine after fighting with it for
the first 10 hours.....went to a full wrap aluminum made just like a fabric
one...with velcro attachments...and safetywire too, with a couple of 1/2 x
1/2 alum angles running the length right next to the wing.....then tossed
that after 30 hours and have a formed soild bolted on job now. with much
better headroom too!
Don Gherardini
OEM.Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
Hey Kolbers!
Just sold my FireStar to a guy in New Mexico.
Sure hated to see her go...
Signing off the Kolb List.
Still have a good set of 5 rib wings to get rid of...
Ken Korenek
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | 5 Rib FireStar Wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrison" <firestarii@hotmail.com>
Are they covered? Send me a price offlist as I know a person who is
rebuilding a FS I cage and might be interested in them.
>From: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib FireStar Wings
>Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:07:32 -0500
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>
>Hey Kolbers!
>
>Any of you guys have any ideas as to what to do with a perfectly good
>set of 5 rib Firestar wings?
>
>They're in perfect shape, have less than 30 hours on them and are taking
>up room in my hangar.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Do not archive
>
>Ken Korenek
>FS# 438
>Arlington, texas
>
>
Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide!
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@freescale.com>
Kolbers,
I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle Craig's Mark
III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday.
Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and was ingested
in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently things were shaking
pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out in the desert. He told
me that they rotated too high for landing, about fifty feet, and mushed the
rest of the way into the desert. Extensive damage, but should be rebuildable.
Both are fine and walked away from the crash. Hopefully he will post in the
near future and tell you more details.
Tim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hirth engine |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
If it's the one on eBay - you need to find out if it falls in or out side
the time period when they shipped some engines with unbalanced
flywheels. You need to contact Matt at with the model and S/N, he can then
determine it is affected and if so if it has been done and if not advise of
any cost to correct it since technically it would be out of warranty by now.
http://www.recpower.com/
jerb
At 10:19 PM 7/4/04 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
>Kolbers,
>
>I have the opportunity to buy a 65 hp Hirth engine for peanuts. And it's
>NEW!!!! ...still in the shipping carton. My question is this: Is there
>any reason anybody can think of that I shouldn't get this engine and
>install it on my Mk-2? I'm fairly drewling with anticipation of what a
>bump of 18 hp would do for my bird.
>
>Steve
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hirth engine |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Go for it. If in fact the seals are bad it will result in a loss of power
and probably not a catastrophic failure. They are not real difficult to
change and a simple pressure test will tell you how they are. Good luck and
have fun . If I was in the market for an engine I would be jumping on it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kroll" <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hirth engine
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> I have the opportunity to buy a 65 hp Hirth engine for peanuts. And it's
NEW!!!! ...still in the shipping carton. My question is this: Is there any
reason anybody can think of that I shouldn't get this engine and install it
on my Mk-2? I'm fairly drewling with anticipation of what a bump of 18 hp
would do for my bird.
>
> Steve
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Tim,
That is bad news. I'm sorry to hear he damaged that beautiful plane, but on
the other hand it is good news in the fact that he walked away from it. I am
thankful he is ok. Hopefully he will not be discouraged by this setback and
can make the necessary repairs.
John Cooley
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gherkins
Tim-rp3420
Subject: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@freescale.com>
Kolbers,
I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle Craig's
Mark III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday.
Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and was
ingested in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently things were
shaking pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out in the desert.
He told me that they rotated too high for landing, about fifty feet, and
mushed the rest of the way into the desert. Extensive damage, but should be
rebuildable. Both are fine and walked away from the crash. Hopefully he
will post in the near future and tell you more details.
Tim
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Phx Xtra Crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
"He and his passenger"?????
What was a passenger doing in an experimental aircraft during flight
testing? That is why passengers are not allowed until you have flown off
the test period, so that if something comes apart, you only put yourself in
peril.
Obviously, if something goes to pot, and you are busy trying to sort out
your options, if you are solo you don't have to be concerned about the
safety of your passenger, you can stay more focused. And maybe not flare
50' too high.
Besides, light airplanes fly better.
Sigh...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 11:32 AM 7/6/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@freescale.com>
>
>Kolbers,
>
>I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle
>Craig's Mark III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday.
>
>Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and
>was ingested in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently
>things were shaking pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out
>in the desert. He told me that they rotated too high for landing, about
>fifty feet, and mushed the rest of the way into the desert. Extensive
>damage, but should be rebuildable. Both are fine and walked away from the
>crash. Hopefully he will post in the near future and tell you more details.
>
>Tim
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Phx Xtra Crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" <jghunter@nol.net>
you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too
jg
And maybe not flare > 50' too high.
> Besides, light airplanes fly better.
> Sigh...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russkinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Nobody wants to lean on a guy when he's down, and I don't either. But
breaking the rules (pax onboard during test period) is a real no-no and will
only bring the Friendlies down on all of us.
And this is one more reason why I, for one, REALLY recommend some flight
training from a CFI in a 'regular' airplane, no matter what you plan to fly.
The emergency procedures are pretty much the same!. During practice
engine-outs you'd be taught not to flare too high.
Luckily the KOLB is a superb design and will bring you down alive & unbent
when other aircraft wouldn't. This was just proven.
But remember on any pusher, anything that can come loose will come loose,
and go thru the prop with dire results.
A hard lesson, but an unforgettable one. My sympathies.
Russ Kinne
Do Not Archive
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 09:58 AM 6/30/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
><pelletier@cableone.net>
>
>
>Folks,
>
>I finally found a better way to share pictures with others. It's free, so
>no reason not to have lots of great photos to show off in full screen
>slideshow mode.
AS far as the fabric gap seal.....I tossed mine after fighting with it for
the first 10 hours.....went to a full wrap aluminum made just like a fabric
one...with velcro attachments...and safetywire too, with a couple of 1/2 x
1/2 alum angles running the length right next to the wing.....then tossed
that after 30 hours and have a formed soild bolted on job now. with much
better headroom too!
Don Gherardini
Guess I'll try this free way to share pictures - it seems pretty simple,
hope it works.
http://ssullivan2.photosite.com/possums/
Possum
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: uncle craig crashes |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:23:31 -0700
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: jam'n
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash
uncle craig crashes in the desert,
I did not want to post this talk about it or think about it. I check my e mail
for a business related message and I'm forced to respond, tim was not even there!
and I was not out showboating passengers on the first flight. the plane
flew great we were trying to get familiar with the landing picture. we, bryce
hatfield was the pilot in command, and I was the student,if you will. he knew
the risks; and far's could not stop me from taking the first flight in a project
I have been so passionate about for four years. as I said in the first flight
post I was having ground handling issues and bryce was willing to help me
out. that morning he got me feeling confident, and I was really enjoying the extra.we
had 5 or 6 landings when we were in the pattern at 1000 feet flowing a
Cessna when the back 1/2 of the muffler went through the prop. there was a definite
exhaust note change. I could see the left flap was damaged, and there was
a definite vibration. brycr took the controls and we headed for mother earth.
he has lost two friends to thrown propellers and was not comfortable, as we
approached the ground I never feared for my life she flew great. 60 mph good---
lined up on a clear spot on the ground, but bryce lifted the nose a little
early and she quit flying about 15 feet above the deck. mushed in and bent the
right landing gear leg. the frame tore loose from the gear leg socket and bent
the tubing behind. we did a 180 bending the fuse tube in the sandy desert. the
kolb preformed as designed and we escaped without a scratch. we found the muffler
part that departed the plane and on inspection found that the weld was
bad (no penetration) sill medesty the welder that designed the system did not
have time to weld it so I took it to a chopper fabricator to have it welded.big
mistake!!!! the warp is one hell of a prop two blades hit the piece and it was
all there. two ribs on the left flap need replacing including the in board
one. the welding on the frame. the nose over bar needs replaced and some minor
repair to the bottom of the nose. my pride is hurt moor than you the plane. I
have always said you never know what you will do in a emergency till it happens
to you.
uncle craig MKIIIEX uls warp
arizona www.milows.com
you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too
jg
And maybe not flare > 50' too high.
> Besides, light airplanes fly better.
> Sigh...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: uncle craig crashes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Craig.......
glad you are OK...and that damage is pretty minor....as far as the
fixing....the taking apart and putting back together will take longer than
the fixin'.....and I can verify from similiar experiences....it is
absoultley amazin how fast a kolb looses airspeed with no power....alot
harder to land dead stick than anything else I have time in thats for
sure.They quit flying and mush down just as you describe real quick....the
good part is...now you know how it feels...and you will certainly be
prepared for it should it ever happen again. And now you also know there is
no need for panic...cause a Kolb can take it pretty well, the airspeed will
be slow enough and the airframe tuff enough....you probably wont get hurt.
AND...they fix pretty easy to! So dont despair pard.....
Welcome to the Kolb Benders Club Craig.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: uncle craig crashes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Craig,
Just wanted to say I am glad no one was hurt. I have had two forced off
field landings and feel for your bird and pride as well. Good luck
fixing her.
Giovanni Day
MKIII/912 80566
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CRAIG M
NELSON
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: jam'n
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash
uncle craig crashes in the desert,
I did not want to post this talk about it or think about it. I check
my e mail for a business related message and I'm forced to respond, tim
was not even there! and I was not out showboating passengers on the
first flight. the plane flew great we were trying to get familiar with
the landing picture. we, bryce hatfield was the pilot in command, and I
was the student,if you will. he knew the risks; and far's could not stop
me from taking the first flight in a project I have been so passionate
about for four years. as I said in the first flight post I was having
ground handling issues and bryce was willing to help me out. that
morning he got me feeling confident, and I was really enjoying the
extra.we had 5 or 6 landings when we were in the pattern at 1000 feet
flowing a Cessna when the back 1/2 of the muffler went through the prop.
there was a definite exhaust note change. I could see the left flap was
damaged, and there was a definite vibration. brycr took the controls
and! we headed for mother earth. he has lost two friends to thrown
propellers and was not comfortable, as we approached the ground I never
feared for my life she flew great. 60 mph good--- lined up on a clear
spot on the ground, but bryce lifted the nose a little early and she
quit flying about 15 feet above the deck. mushed in and bent the right
landing gear leg. the frame tore loose from the gear leg socket and bent
the tubing behind. we did a 180 bending the fuse tube in the sandy
desert. the kolb preformed as designed and we escaped without a scratch.
we found the muffler part that departed the plane and on inspection
found that the weld was bad (no penetration) sill medesty the welder
that designed the system did not have time to weld it so I took it to a
chopper fabricator to have it welded.big mistake!!!! the warp is one
hell of a prop two blades hit the piece and it was all there. two ribs
on the left flap need replacing including the in board one. the welding
on the fra! me. the nose over bar needs replaced and some minor repair
to the bottom of the nose. my pride is hurt moor than you the plane. I
have always said you never know what you will do in a emergency till it
happens to you.
uncle craig MKIIIEX uls warp
arizona www.milows.com
you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too
jg
And maybe not flare > 50' too high.
> Besides, light airplanes fly better.
> Sigh...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: uncle craig crashes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@isp.com>
I object here! Uncle Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Gherardini
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes/trashes his plane & gets
invited into an exclusive club of high honor. When I took off with a role
of toilet paper between my knees in my UltraStar & then said oooooppps as I
watched it bounce off the ground toward the propeller. Well at about 15ft
in the air, that fluffy ball of poop paper decided to take that moment to
experience a metmorphological translation into a wwII flack artillery shell.
The $400 3-blade wooden prop properly exploded & ripped the covering off the
lower inside quadrant of the right wing, cleaned out the fabric like like a
hungry virus. That right wing was attacked by at least 10,000 miniture prop
toothpicks. They cleaned the fabric out so well I could see the beautiful
sky right through them. Since varying amounts of kamakazi tooth pick jumped
off some of those 3 blades more than the others, their mission was to seek
out and destroy the engine mount. It went just as Murphy planned it, they
got shaking that engine so violently that they tore my darling Cuyuna off
the engine mount. By this time a large hanging piece of that prop with dying
breath, slung its remaining stump into the trailing edge of the wing just so
He could say with his dying breath, he broke the back of a mighty Kolb wing.
My dream of pirouetting thru the sky chasing a role of poop paper,
gracefully slicing it as the enchanted crowd ooo-ed & haaaaa-ed as I
Deftly reduced it to sheds of fluttering paper, was destroyed.
I am just now beginning to get over it, but now I realized to an
even more deleterious effect on my already bruised ego, that in spite of all
this tragedy, no none invited me to join the austere "Kolb Benders Club"
To make matters even worse, I accomplished several even dumber
events than the above, and still no invitation. I am smelling a dead rat
hear, maybe I'm sniffing out a conspiracy against Polish pilots. As a
minority in this list, I'm sure the AACLU just might have something to say
about this disingenuous discrimination. I might even tell my even tell my
mother.
Richard Swiderski
SlingShot
Turbo Suzuki G-10
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardi" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Craig.....
glad you are OK...and that damage is pretty minor....as far as the
fixing....the taking apart and putting back together will take longer than
the fixin'.....and I can verify from similiar experiences....it is
absoultley amazin how fast a kolb looses airspeed with no power....alot
harder to land dead stick than anything else I have time in thats for
sure.They quit flying and mush down just as you describe real quick....the
good part is...now you know how it feels...and you will certainly be
prepared for it should it ever happen again. And now you also know there is
no need for panic...cause a Kolb can take it pretty well, the airspeed will
be slow enough and the airframe tuff enough....you probably wont get hurt.
AND...they fix pretty easy to! So dont despair pard.....
Welcome to the Kolb Benders Club Craig.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: uncle craig crashes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Richard.......That is by far the best "how I tore up my airplane " story I
have ever heard....rates right up there with Haucks video of "How to break
a Firestar"....
Based on this gallant report., and others of your reputation, (grin).....I
hearby nominate you as Chairman of the KBC for a duley appropriate and yet
undetermined term!
Are there any other nominations?
Then...I make a motion for a vote
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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