---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/06/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:57 AM - 1st pull (al bumhoffer) 2. 06:00 AM - Sorry Matt, List (al bumhoffer) 3. 06:06 AM - Where to buy gap seal velcro (WillUribe@aol.com) 4. 07:33 AM - Re: 1st pull (Don Gherardini) 5. 11:16 AM - FireStar II (Ken korenek) 6. 11:19 AM - Re: 5 Rib FireStar Wings (Bruce Harrison) 7. 11:36 AM - Phx Xtra Crash (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 8. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Hirth engine (jerb) 9. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Hirth engine (woody) 10. 01:59 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (John Cooley) 11. 02:09 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (Richard Pike) 12. 02:30 PM - Re: Phx Xtra Crash (jam'n) 13. 02:49 PM - q (russkinne) 14. 04:40 PM - gap seal (possums) 15. 05:23 PM - Re: uncle craig crashes (CRAIG M NELSON) 16. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Don Gherardini) 17. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Giovanni Day) 18. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Richard Swiderski) 19. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: uncle craig crashes (Don Gherardini) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:32 AM PST US From: al bumhoffer Subject: Kolb-List: 1st pull --> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer I started the 503 DCDI on my Firestat II on July 5th for the 1st time and it ran on the 1st pull. I just need to put the tail feathers and wings back on and do some other odds and ends, and weight and balance, etc. I plan on using the fabric gap seal but need to buy the velcro. I looked in the archives but did not find a source. I know this has been discussed before. Would you suggest buying from TNK Co., other source, or forget about the fabric gap seal altogether? Al Bumhoffer, FirestarII Elkton, MI __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:07 AM PST US From: al bumhoffer Subject: Kolb-List: Sorry Matt, List --> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer Sorry Matt, I forgot to add the Do Not Archive to my last post. Al Bumhoffer, Firestar II Do Not Archive __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:40 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Where to buy gap seal velcro --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com You can find velcro in the fabric department at Walmart. Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ Do not archive and my apologies to anyone who is offended by this post. In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:58:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, abumhoffer@yahoo.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer I started the 503 DCDI on my Firestat II on July 5th for the 1st time and it ran on the 1st pull. I just need to put the tail feathers and wings back on and do some other odds and ends, and weight and balance, etc. I plan on using the fabric gap seal but need to buy the velcro. I looked in the archives but did not find a source. I know this has been discussed before. Would you suggest buying from TNK Co., other source, or forget about the fabric gap seal altogether? Al Bumhoffer, FirestarII Elkton, MI ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:31 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 1st pull --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Al, You can get the industrail strength Velcro locally.....Ace Hdwe has it here too. AS far as the fabric gap seal.....I tossed mine after fighting with it for the first 10 hours.....went to a full wrap aluminum made just like a fabric one...with velcro attachments...and safetywire too, with a couple of 1/2 x 1/2 alum angles running the length right next to the wing.....then tossed that after 30 hours and have a formed soild bolted on job now. with much better headroom too! Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:02 AM PST US From: Ken korenek Subject: Kolb-List: FireStar II --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek Hey Kolbers! Just sold my FireStar to a guy in New Mexico. Sure hated to see her go... Signing off the Kolb List. Still have a good set of 5 rib wings to get rid of... Ken Korenek Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:13 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrison" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 5 Rib FireStar Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrison" Are they covered? Send me a price offlist as I know a person who is rebuilding a FS I cage and might be interested in them. >From: Ken korenek >Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib FireStar Wings >Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:07:32 -0500 > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek > >Hey Kolbers! > >Any of you guys have any ideas as to what to do with a perfectly good >set of 5 rib Firestar wings? > >They're in perfect shape, have less than 30 hours on them and are taking >up room in my hangar. > >Any suggestions? > >Do not archive > >Ken Korenek >FS# 438 >Arlington, texas > > Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:17 AM PST US From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Kolbers, I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle Craig's Mark III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday. Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and was ingested in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently things were shaking pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out in the desert. He told me that they rotated too high for landing, about fifty feet, and mushed the rest of the way into the desert. Extensive damage, but should be rebuildable. Both are fine and walked away from the crash. Hopefully he will post in the near future and tell you more details. Tim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:11 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hirth engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb If it's the one on eBay - you need to find out if it falls in or out side the time period when they shipped some engines with unbalanced flywheels. You need to contact Matt at with the model and S/N, he can then determine it is affected and if so if it has been done and if not advise of any cost to correct it since technically it would be out of warranty by now. http://www.recpower.com/ jerb At 10:19 PM 7/4/04 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll > >Kolbers, > >I have the opportunity to buy a 65 hp Hirth engine for peanuts. And it's >NEW!!!! ...still in the shipping carton. My question is this: Is there >any reason anybody can think of that I shouldn't get this engine and >install it on my Mk-2? I'm fairly drewling with anticipation of what a >bump of 18 hp would do for my bird. > >Steve > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >--------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:22 PM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hirth engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" Go for it. If in fact the seals are bad it will result in a loss of power and probably not a catastrophic failure. They are not real difficult to change and a simple pressure test will tell you how they are. Good luck and have fun . If I was in the market for an engine I would be jumping on it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Kroll" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hirth engine > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll > > Kolbers, > > I have the opportunity to buy a 65 hp Hirth engine for peanuts. And it's NEW!!!! ...still in the shipping carton. My question is this: Is there any reason anybody can think of that I shouldn't get this engine and install it on my Mk-2? I'm fairly drewling with anticipation of what a bump of 18 hp would do for my bird. > > Steve > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:12 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Tim, That is bad news. I'm sorry to hear he damaged that beautiful plane, but on the other hand it is good news in the fact that he walked away from it. I am thankful he is ok. Hopefully he will not be discouraged by this setback and can make the necessary repairs. John Cooley do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Kolbers, I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle Craig's Mark III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday. Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and was ingested in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently things were shaking pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out in the desert. He told me that they rotated too high for landing, about fifty feet, and mushed the rest of the way into the desert. Extensive damage, but should be rebuildable. Both are fine and walked away from the crash. Hopefully he will post in the near future and tell you more details. Tim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:18 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike "He and his passenger"????? What was a passenger doing in an experimental aircraft during flight testing? That is why passengers are not allowed until you have flown off the test period, so that if something comes apart, you only put yourself in peril. Obviously, if something goes to pot, and you are busy trying to sort out your options, if you are solo you don't have to be concerned about the safety of your passenger, you can stay more focused. And maybe not flare 50' too high. Besides, light airplanes fly better. Sigh... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 11:32 AM 7/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 > >Kolbers, > >I have had a few inquiries of how the test flying is going on uncle >Craig's Mark III Xtra. Well, he crashed the Xtra yesterday. > >Part of the customized muffler he had made came apart in mid flight and >was ingested in the propeller, sending it thru the flap. Apparently >things were shaking pretty good and he and his passenger crash landed out >in the desert. He told me that they rotated too high for landing, about >fifty feet, and mushed the rest of the way into the desert. Extensive >damage, but should be rebuildable. Both are fine and walked away from the >crash. Hopefully he will post in the near future and tell you more details. > >Tim > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:36 PM PST US From: "jam'n" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jam'n" you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too jg And maybe not flare > 50' too high. > Besides, light airplanes fly better. > Sigh... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:12 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: q From: russkinne --> Kolb-List message posted by: russkinne Nobody wants to lean on a guy when he's down, and I don't either. But breaking the rules (pax onboard during test period) is a real no-no and will only bring the Friendlies down on all of us. And this is one more reason why I, for one, REALLY recommend some flight training from a CFI in a 'regular' airplane, no matter what you plan to fly. The emergency procedures are pretty much the same!. During practice engine-outs you'd be taught not to flare too high. Luckily the KOLB is a superb design and will bring you down alive & unbent when other aircraft wouldn't. This was just proven. But remember on any pusher, anything that can come loose will come loose, and go thru the prop with dire results. A hard lesson, but an unforgettable one. My sympathies. Russ Kinne Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:00 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Kolb-List: gap seal --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 09:58 AM 6/30/2004, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > > >Folks, > >I finally found a better way to share pictures with others. It's free, so >no reason not to have lots of great photos to show off in full screen >slideshow mode. AS far as the fabric gap seal.....I tossed mine after fighting with it for the first 10 hours.....went to a full wrap aluminum made just like a fabric one...with velcro attachments...and safetywire too, with a couple of 1/2 x 1/2 alum angles running the length right next to the wing.....then tossed that after 30 hours and have a formed soild bolted on job now. with much better headroom too! Don Gherardini Guess I'll try this free way to share pictures - it seems pretty simple, hope it works. http://ssullivan2.photosite.com/possums/ Possum ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:57 PM PST US From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:23:31 -0700 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: jam'n To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash uncle craig crashes in the desert, I did not want to post this talk about it or think about it. I check my e mail for a business related message and I'm forced to respond, tim was not even there! and I was not out showboating passengers on the first flight. the plane flew great we were trying to get familiar with the landing picture. we, bryce hatfield was the pilot in command, and I was the student,if you will. he knew the risks; and far's could not stop me from taking the first flight in a project I have been so passionate about for four years. as I said in the first flight post I was having ground handling issues and bryce was willing to help me out. that morning he got me feeling confident, and I was really enjoying the extra.we had 5 or 6 landings when we were in the pattern at 1000 feet flowing a Cessna when the back 1/2 of the muffler went through the prop. there was a definite exhaust note change. I could see the left flap was damaged, and there was a definite vibration. brycr took the controls and we headed for mother earth. he has lost two friends to thrown propellers and was not comfortable, as we approached the ground I never feared for my life she flew great. 60 mph good--- lined up on a clear spot on the ground, but bryce lifted the nose a little early and she quit flying about 15 feet above the deck. mushed in and bent the right landing gear leg. the frame tore loose from the gear leg socket and bent the tubing behind. we did a 180 bending the fuse tube in the sandy desert. the kolb preformed as designed and we escaped without a scratch. we found the muffler part that departed the plane and on inspection found that the weld was bad (no penetration) sill medesty the welder that designed the system did not have time to weld it so I took it to a chopper fabricator to have it welded.big mistake!!!! the warp is one hell of a prop two blades hit the piece and it was all there. two ribs on the left flap need replacing including the in board one. the welding on the frame. the nose over bar needs replaced and some minor repair to the bottom of the nose. my pride is hurt moor than you the plane. I have always said you never know what you will do in a emergency till it happens to you. uncle craig MKIIIEX uls warp arizona www.milows.com you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too jg And maybe not flare > 50' too high. > Besides, light airplanes fly better. > Sigh... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:54 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Craig....... glad you are OK...and that damage is pretty minor....as far as the fixing....the taking apart and putting back together will take longer than the fixin'.....and I can verify from similiar experiences....it is absoultley amazin how fast a kolb looses airspeed with no power....alot harder to land dead stick than anything else I have time in thats for sure.They quit flying and mush down just as you describe real quick....the good part is...now you know how it feels...and you will certainly be prepared for it should it ever happen again. And now you also know there is no need for panic...cause a Kolb can take it pretty well, the airspeed will be slow enough and the airframe tuff enough....you probably wont get hurt. AND...they fix pretty easy to! So dont despair pard..... Welcome to the Kolb Benders Club Craig. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:21 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Craig, Just wanted to say I am glad no one was hurt. I have had two forced off field landings and feel for your bird and pride as well. Good luck fixing her. Giovanni Day MKIII/912 80566 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CRAIG M NELSON Subject: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: jam'n To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Phx Xtra Crash uncle craig crashes in the desert, I did not want to post this talk about it or think about it. I check my e mail for a business related message and I'm forced to respond, tim was not even there! and I was not out showboating passengers on the first flight. the plane flew great we were trying to get familiar with the landing picture. we, bryce hatfield was the pilot in command, and I was the student,if you will. he knew the risks; and far's could not stop me from taking the first flight in a project I have been so passionate about for four years. as I said in the first flight post I was having ground handling issues and bryce was willing to help me out. that morning he got me feeling confident, and I was really enjoying the extra.we had 5 or 6 landings when we were in the pattern at 1000 feet flowing a Cessna when the back 1/2 of the muffler went through the prop. there was a definite exhaust note change. I could see the left flap was damaged, and there was a definite vibration. brycr took the controls and! we headed for mother earth. he has lost two friends to thrown propellers and was not comfortable, as we approached the ground I never feared for my life she flew great. 60 mph good--- lined up on a clear spot on the ground, but bryce lifted the nose a little early and she quit flying about 15 feet above the deck. mushed in and bent the right landing gear leg. the frame tore loose from the gear leg socket and bent the tubing behind. we did a 180 bending the fuse tube in the sandy desert. the kolb preformed as designed and we escaped without a scratch. we found the muffler part that departed the plane and on inspection found that the weld was bad (no penetration) sill medesty the welder that designed the system did not have time to weld it so I took it to a chopper fabricator to have it welded.big mistake!!!! the warp is one hell of a prop two blades hit the piece and it was all there. two ribs on the left flap need replacing including the in board one. the welding on the fra! me. the nose over bar needs replaced and some minor repair to the bottom of the nose. my pride is hurt moor than you the plane. I have always said you never know what you will do in a emergency till it happens to you. uncle craig MKIIIEX uls warp arizona www.milows.com you make a good point.. that 50' flare had me wondering too jg And maybe not flare > 50' too high. > Besides, light airplanes fly better. > Sigh... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:05 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" I object here! Uncle Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Gherardini Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes/trashes his plane & gets invited into an exclusive club of high honor. When I took off with a role of toilet paper between my knees in my UltraStar & then said oooooppps as I watched it bounce off the ground toward the propeller. Well at about 15ft in the air, that fluffy ball of poop paper decided to take that moment to experience a metmorphological translation into a wwII flack artillery shell. The $400 3-blade wooden prop properly exploded & ripped the covering off the lower inside quadrant of the right wing, cleaned out the fabric like like a hungry virus. That right wing was attacked by at least 10,000 miniture prop toothpicks. They cleaned the fabric out so well I could see the beautiful sky right through them. Since varying amounts of kamakazi tooth pick jumped off some of those 3 blades more than the others, their mission was to seek out and destroy the engine mount. It went just as Murphy planned it, they got shaking that engine so violently that they tore my darling Cuyuna off the engine mount. By this time a large hanging piece of that prop with dying breath, slung its remaining stump into the trailing edge of the wing just so He could say with his dying breath, he broke the back of a mighty Kolb wing. My dream of pirouetting thru the sky chasing a role of poop paper, gracefully slicing it as the enchanted crowd ooo-ed & haaaaa-ed as I Deftly reduced it to sheds of fluttering paper, was destroyed. I am just now beginning to get over it, but now I realized to an even more deleterious effect on my already bruised ego, that in spite of all this tragedy, no none invited me to join the austere "Kolb Benders Club" To make matters even worse, I accomplished several even dumber events than the above, and still no invitation. I am smelling a dead rat hear, maybe I'm sniffing out a conspiracy against Polish pilots. As a minority in this list, I'm sure the AACLU just might have something to say about this disingenuous discrimination. I might even tell my even tell my mother. Richard Swiderski SlingShot Turbo Suzuki G-10 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardi" Craig..... glad you are OK...and that damage is pretty minor....as far as the fixing....the taking apart and putting back together will take longer than the fixin'.....and I can verify from similiar experiences....it is absoultley amazin how fast a kolb looses airspeed with no power....alot harder to land dead stick than anything else I have time in thats for sure.They quit flying and mush down just as you describe real quick....the good part is...now you know how it feels...and you will certainly be prepared for it should it ever happen again. And now you also know there is no need for panic...cause a Kolb can take it pretty well, the airspeed will be slow enough and the airframe tuff enough....you probably wont get hurt. AND...they fix pretty easy to! So dont despair pard..... Welcome to the Kolb Benders Club Craig. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:51 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: uncle craig crashes --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Richard.......That is by far the best "how I tore up my airplane " story I have ever heard....rates right up there with Haucks video of "How to break a Firestar".... Based on this gallant report., and others of your reputation, (grin).....I hearby nominate you as Chairman of the KBC for a duley appropriate and yet undetermined term! Are there any other nominations? Then...I make a motion for a vote Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm DO NOT ARCHIVE