---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/25/04: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - Float flyer from Kolb (Paul Petty) 2. 05:59 AM - flyer correction (Paul Petty) 3. 07:35 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 07/24/04 (boyd young) 4. 07:35 AM - kolb taxes you getting off easy. (boyd young) 5. 10:54 AM - trimming for torque (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 6. 12:22 PM - Re: kolb taxes you getting off easy. (Larry Cottrell) 7. 01:29 PM - flexible exhaust system (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 8. 01:30 PM - flexible exhaust system (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 9. 01:42 PM - Re: flexible exhaust system (flykolb) 10. 03:25 PM - Re: flexible exhaust system (Richard Pike) 11. 03:33 PM - Trimming for torque (H MITCHELL) 12. 03:51 PM - John H report (Bob N.) 13. 04:36 PM - Re: kolb taxes you getting off easy. (Larry Bourne) 14. 06:25 PM - Re: Trimming for torque (Thumb) 15. 07:41 PM - Flexible exhaust system (H MITCHELL) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:11 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Float flyer from Kolb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Hey fellow Kolbers, Here is the latest on the float project. Steve asked me to post it for all to see. Planning on working on Ms. Dixie all day today:-) http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/KOLB.jpg Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:30 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: flyer correction --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Looks as if the text to the flyer did not make the file transfer to good so if any would like me to forward a copy via e-mail let me know... pp do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:54 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 07/24/04 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:54 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: kolb taxes you getting off easy. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" On to step two....I figure I owe $647.47 in taxes when I register it....plus $5.00 registration FEE.... I read on a yearly reg. if the price of the aircraft is UNDER $10,000 that it'll only cost $25 per yr. Gotta Fly... Mike in MN FSII - N381PM mike i was interest in your tax amounts.... i just got the tax accessment from the state of utah.... they told me that they checked for the value of my airplane in the aircraft blue book. ( i need to get a copy of this book) according to them the FAIR MARKET VALUE OF AIRCRAFT ON REGISTRATION DATE was $530,114.11 and the TAX OWING $31,806.85 anyone want to buy a aircraft for lets say 1/2 the FAIR MARKET VALUE..that would only be $265,057.05AND 1/2 CENT .. just think of it as an investment.... you should be able to turn around and sell it for an sizeable increase. laughing out loud.... do not archive. boyd ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:46 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: trimming for torque From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 07/25/2004 01":54:03.PM@matronics.com, MIME-CD complete at 07/25/2004 01:54:03.PM@matronics.com, Serialize by Router on SMTP102/URSCorp(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 07/25/2004 01:53:02.PM@matronics.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Duane the plane: I am a little surprised to hear that your mrk 3 with 912 has right turning tendencies, only because mine does the opposite - left turning. Seem to remember hearing of left turning tendencies from others as well, perhaps partly due to most of us flying solo in the left seat. Presumably you would have an even bigger issue with a right seat passenger along. I lived with the left turn for a long time and then finally simply wrapped a bungy around the stick and over to the right side because that was the easiest solution and also allows for some in-flight adjustment. Aileron trim tabs are perfectly fine as well, and are suggested within the old Kolb manual. regards, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:02 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb taxes you getting off easy. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > according to them the > FAIR MARKET VALUE OF AIRCRAFT ON REGISTRATION DATE was $530,114.11 and > the TAX OWING $31,806.85 Apparently flying penguins are a lot rarer than you thought do not archive! Larry, Oregon ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: flexible exhaust system From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 07/25/2004 04":28:25.PM@matronics.com, MIME-CD complete at 07/25/2004 04:28:25.PM@matronics.com, Serialize by Router on SMTP102/URSCorp(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 07/25/2004 04:27:23.PM@matronics.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com I continue to be plagued by cracked pipes on the Titan 912 SS exhaust system. The cracks are typically occurring within the short segment right near the cylinder heads. This portion of the pipes is somehwat thinner wall material than the rest of the pipes and is essentially an adapter to allow mating with the Rotax engine. I can only assume that that since the pipes are obviously held in a fixed position here, the rest of the exhaust system is flexing and vibrating enough to cause the failures. Ive welded the cracks, but I think they have become work hardened and brittle. Besides, Im ready to move on to a longer term solution. Spent some time on the internet this morning and found several companies that make metal bellows for isolation of vibration and flexibility. These are essentially what you see on a flexible drinking straw - a corrugated section that allows some movement in the tubing. At least a few companies indicate that they are applicable to exhaust systems, although Im not sure how many would be willing to put them on aircraft. Many of the same companies also manufacture various forms of flexible steel hose. As far as I can tell, thesare not just steel braids around an interior rubber hose, but high tech steel throughout, for carrying nasty hot fluids. Any of you scientists/engineers out there have any thoughts abuout the use of metal bellows or steel hose in an exhaust system? Why are exhaust pipes rigid instead of flexible? Seems like a short section of either hose or bellows would do a lot for vibration isolation. Then again, I cant recall ever seeing either on an airplane, and I cant be the first to think of this. Somebody tell me why Im nuts. Cost? Well, ok, but the titan system is now $1,000 and thats not working for me. regards, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:26 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: flexible exhaust system From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 07/25/2004 04":30:16.PM@matronics.com, MIME-CD complete at 07/25/2004 04:30:16.PM@matronics.com, Serialize by Router on SMTP102/URSCorp(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 07/25/2004 04:29:10.PM@matronics.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com I continue to be plagued by cracked pipes on the Titan 912 SS exhaust system. The cracks are typically occurring within the short segment right near the cylinder heads. This portion of the pipes is somehwat thinner wall material than the rest of the pipes and is essentially an adapter to allow mating with the Rotax engine. I can only assume that that since the pipes are obviously held in a fixed position here, the rest of the exhaust system is flexing and vibrating enough to cause the failures. Ive welded the cracks, but I think they have become work hardened and brittle. Besides, Im ready to move on to a longer term solution. Spent some time on the internet this morning and found several companies that make metal bellows for isolation of vibration and flexibility. These are essentially what you see on a flexible drinking straw - a corrugated section that allows some movement in the tubing. At least a few companies indicate that they are applicable to exhaust systems, although Im not sure how many would be willing to put them on aircraft. Many of the same companies also manufacture various forms of flexible steel hose. As far as I can tell, thesare not just steel braids around an interior rubber hose, but high tech steel throughout, for carrying nasty hot fluids. Any of you scientists/engineers out there have any thoughts abuout the use of metal bellows or steel hose in an exhaust system? Why are exhaust pipes rigid instead of flexible? Seems like a short section of either hose or bellows would do a lot for vibration isolation. Then again, I cant recall ever seeing either on an airplane, and I cant be the first to think of this. Somebody tell me why Im nuts. Cost? Well, ok, but the titan system is now $1,000 and thats not working for me. regards, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:01 PM PST US From: "flykolb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flexible exhaust system --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flykolb" Eric, A friend of mine had the same problem with his 912. He solved it with the new Ball Joint Conversion Kit, p. 129 of the CPS 2004 catalog. Cost $29.95. Jim Mark III Charlotte, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002" <"Serialize by Router on SMTP102/URSCorp at 07/25/2004 04:27:23.PM"@matronics.com> Subject: Kolb-List: flexible exhaust system > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > > > I continue to be plagued by cracked pipes on the Titan 912 SS exhaust > system. The cracks are typically occurring within the short segment right > near the cylinder heads. This portion of the pipes is somehwat thinner wall > material than the rest of the pipes and is essentially an adapter to allow > mating with the Rotax engine. . > > > > regards, > Erich Weaver > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:35 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flexible exhaust system --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Years ago the Hummer had a Zenoah 250 that used a stainless flexible connector between the manifold and the muffler, it was a non tuned 2-stroke system. J C Whitney lists various sizes under ""replacement parts", it is on a page with other exhaust parts, page 211 of the latest catalog. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive At 04:30 PM 7/25/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > > >I continue to be plagued by cracked pipes on the Titan 912 SS exhaust >system. The cracks are typically occurring within the short segment right >near the cylinder heads. This portion of the pipes is somehwat thinner wall >material than the rest of the pipes and is essentially an adapter to allow >mating with the Rotax engine. I can only assume that that since the pipes >are obviously held in a fixed position here, the rest of the exhaust system >is flexing and vibrating enough to cause the failures. Ive welded the >cracks, but I think they have become work hardened and brittle. Besides, >Im ready to move on to a longer term solution. > >Spent some time on the internet this morning and found several companies >that make metal bellows for isolation of vibration and flexibility. These >are essentially what you see on a flexible drinking straw - a corrugated >section that allows some movement in the tubing. At least a few companies >indicate that they are applicable to exhaust systems, although Im not sure >how many would be willing to put them on aircraft. > >Many of the same companies also manufacture various forms of flexible steel >hose. As far as I can tell, thesare not just steel braids around an >interior rubber hose, but high tech steel throughout, for carrying nasty >hot fluids. > >Any of you scientists/engineers out there have any thoughts abuout the use >of metal bellows or steel hose in an exhaust system? Why are exhaust pipes >rigid instead of flexible? Seems like a short section of either hose or >bellows would do a lot for vibration isolation. Then again, I cant recall >ever seeing either on an airplane, and I cant be the first to think of >this. Somebody tell me why Im nuts. Cost? Well, ok, but the titan system >is now $1,000 and thats not working for me. > >regards, > Erich Weaver > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:11 PM PST US From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Kolb-List: Trimming for torque Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 18:33:04 -0400 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" Thanks to Eric and Boyd for their responses on this subject, First, I need to clarify my description of the problem. I had to push the control stick to the RIGHT. I should have said that I had to apply pressure to the left side of the stick in my first post. From what I have learned so far this sounds like a fairly common problem with 912 powered Mk3s. I think the John Hauck's bungy-to-the-right sounds like a proven and easy solution for my first try. I'll report the results after next test flight. Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, Mk3/912 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:30 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Kolb-List: John H report --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." The latest, postmarked Sun 2131 Z Morning Bob: Thanks for the note. Always good to hear from you. Tell Jo hello for me and give her a hug too, a big one. :-) I am not superstitious, except on the chance something may go wrong, hehehe. [ I wrote that I wouldn't wish him good luck, just good skill--bn] Great flight so far. So much different from previous flights of "push" to get back to Oshkosh. This one has been more leisure flying to places I would never take the time to visit because of the time factor. I can stay a day or two in one place to rest up and regroup, as I am doing here with the Helmericks at Colville Village. What great folks they are. Coming here again was like coming home. Same way I feel when I go to my friend JD Smith's in North Pole. When I ask if I am going to be in the way, his two sisters from Alabama were visiting when I arrived, he replies with, "no sweat, we'll just hang you on a nail." Or, "Don't worry, you are just family." I take that as a great compliment from an old retired Army CW4 Army Aviator. He is Cherokee Indian from Hartselle, Alabama, as are his sisters. From the second story window, here in the Helmerick's home, I can see the Polar Ice Cape pushed up against the sand bars of the Colville River Delta. I have dined on freshly smoked white fish and arctic char. Munched on smoked caribou. Roamed around this island they call home with the biggest Chesapeak Retriever I have ever seen. I can not go out the door without my brown giant of a buddy, Toby. He doesn't know the Colville River is ice cold. Loves to retrieve sticks I throw in the water for him. Tomorrow will head on out to Barrow, weather permitting. Hope to spend a few days there, if I can may local contact with Eskimos, not tourist guides. Soon will be time to head on back south. I will be glad to get home again, but extremely sad to leave the North Slope and the rest of Alaska, YT, BC, that I love so much. When I talked to JD on the phone the other night, they were having a tremendous thunderstorm in North Pole. Hope that it spread far enough to put out some of the fires. If the smoke is gone, and the weather is good, will still attempt to fly to Inuvik, Northwest Territory, and the northernmost village about 80 miles north on the coast. Then it will be time to head for the house. Thanks again for writing, john h ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:47 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb taxes you getting off easy. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" How 'bout non-flying Mooses ?? Prob'ly hafta move to Utah.............?? :-) Anybody wanna buy Vamoose for 1/4 of book value ?? One tenth ?? Big Lar...........cookin' in Palm Springs at 110 in the shade - and humid. Mercy ! ! ! Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb taxes you getting off easy. > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > > > according to them the > > FAIR MARKET VALUE OF AIRCRAFT ON REGISTRATION DATE was $530,114.11 and > > the TAX OWING $31,806.85 > > > Apparently flying penguins are a lot rarer than you thought > > > do not archive! > Larry, Oregon > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:09 PM PST US From: "Thumb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trimming for torque --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thumb" Duane I had to do the same thing with my MK111. What I did was add a trim tab on the right aileron and a trim tab on the rudder. It took care of the problem. It will fly straight and level hands off in calm air. If you would like the size and pictures get with me off the list.. Bill Futrell Brooksville Fl Mk11Xtra 912 Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Kolb-List: Trimming for torque > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" > > Thanks to Eric and Boyd for their responses on this subject, > > First, I need to clarify my description of the problem. I had to push the control stick to the RIGHT. I should have said that I had to apply pressure to the left side of the stick in my first post. From what I have learned so far this sounds like a fairly common problem with 912 powered Mk3s. I think the John Hauck's bungy-to-the-right sounds like a proven and easy solution for my first try. I'll report the results after next test flight. > > Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, Mk3/912 > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:25 PM PST US From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Kolb-List: Flexible exhaust system Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:40:53 -0400 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" I have noticed on several 912 Titan exhaust systems that a flexible brace was used near the end of the system. It was located just ahead of the muffler and anchored to the engine at the top of the gearbox. This was not a rigid brace and it was used only to dampen the vibration amplitude so the whole mess won't be waging like a dog's tail as we are flying along. If movement is limited at the muffler the flexing of the pipes upstream will also be reduced and the whole system will last longer. Caution, a rigid brace could hold the end of the pipe too tight and may cause other stress problems as the pipe heats up and tries to expand, distort etc. Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, Mk3/912 Do Not Archive