Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Torque and "P" factor (David L. Bigelow)
2. 07:15 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 07/25/04 (boyd young)
3. 10:10 AM - From Mouse to Moose.... (Mike Pierzina)
4. 03:59 PM - Re: From Mouse to Moose.... (Larry Bourne)
5. 04:23 PM - Re: From Mouse to Moose.... (Ronnie Wehba)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Torque and "P" factor |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
There seems to be some confusion here regarding torque and p-factor. Torque shows
up at high power settings with very powerful engines on single engine center
line thrust aircraft. Although the torque effect shows up as a rolling tendency,
the proper control response is opposite rudder. An example of an aircraft
that had a lot of torque was the A-1. Smaller pilots had trouble controlling
it on takeoff because of the extreme amount of rudder required to keep it
straight on the runway. Also, in the air, a rapid increase of throttle would
tend to roll the aircraft.
P-factor is caused by the thrust line of the aircraft not being in exact line with
the airflow (vertically). The prop sees a different angle of attack on each
side of the propeller disk. This produces more thrust on one side of the center
line of the propeller disk than the other. Again it is yaw that translates
to roll, and the proper trim is with rudder. The fix is to rotate the engine
a degree or two in azimuth on the motor mount in a direction to counter the
yaw. Usually, the adjustment is made to eliminate the yaw at cruise power setting.
There will still be some asymmetric thrust at takeoff and climb settings,
but it is much less noticeable than with no correction.
I'd say from the description here, the effect is P-factor rather than torque.
I've made this engine mount adjustment with two previous ultralights, and plan
on doing the same with my 503 powered Firestar 2 when I finish it.
Put a yaw string on your aircraft, and first eliminate the roll using aileron.
You will see that the yaw string is not straight. This is what you will get
by trimming it wings level with an aileron tab - the plane will always be flying
in a slight slip. Try it again using rudder to eliminate the roll. You'll
see that the yaw string is straight (or nearly so). You can put a tab on the
rudder, but when you reduce power the trimmed rudder will produce a slip in the
opposite direction. However, if the engine is mounted with the thrust line
slightly off zero degrees azimuth, when you reduce power, the change in yaw is
self-correcting. This whole thing is a "head scratcher", but a few sketches
on a piece of paper will make it more clear.
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS 2
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kroll" <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trimming for torque
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
> I'd like to get this straight on the torque. If the prop is turning
clockwise (looking forward from aft) as on my Mk2, then the airplane should
have the tendency to roll left.....is that correct? My airplane wants to
roll left hands off. There is also a tendency at cruise power for it to
dive(without putting in a pretty fair amount of elevator trim) I understand
that as being the result of the high thrust line of all Kolbs and it is
easily overcome with the elevator trim tab on my airplane. If I want to get
rid of the left rolling tendency, should I put the the permanent trim on the
right aileron with the angle up or on the left aileron with the angle down?
Theoretically, it seems the result would be the same.
>
> Steve Kroll
> Mk2-171
> do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 07/25/04 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
How 'bout non-flying Mooses ?? Prob'ly hafta move to Utah.............??
:-) Anybody wanna buy Vamoose for 1/4 of book value ?? One tenth ??
Big Lar...........cookin' in Palm Springs at 110 in the shade - and humid.
Mercy ! ! ! Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
i think non flying mooses are a dime a dozen..... at least a dime a six
pack.... not get that thing flying and it may be another story.
boyd
Message 3
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| Subject: | From Mouse to Moose.... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Big Lar,
You gonna take that??? I think you should put that mouse in the SKY
and make a MOOSE outa of it....He he he
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i think non flying mooses are a dime a dozen..... at least a dime a six
pack.... not get that thing flying and it may be another story.
boyd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do Not Archive
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: From Mouse to Moose.... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Moosesky...............?? Russian Moose ?? :-) There is NOTHING
happening to that thing till the weather cools - a bunch. I'm a prisoner in
my house here. Pheeee-eeeeww ! ! !
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: From Mouse to Moose....
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
>
> Hey Big Lar,
> You gonna take that??? I think you should put that mouse in
the SKY and make a MOOSE outa of it....He he he
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
>
> SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> i think non flying mooses are a dime a dozen..... at least a dime a six
> pack.... not get that thing flying and it may be another story.
>
> boyd
> >
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: From Mouse to Moose.... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ronnie Wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
Hi larry, really sorry I missed you this trip,we finally got RAIN!! this
week , I think ,it is that wet stuff from them thar clouds???hope you had a
great trip.
ronw in tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: From Mouse to Moose....
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Moosesky...............?? Russian Moose ?? :-) There is NOTHING
> happening to that thing till the weather cools - a bunch. I'm a prisoner
in
> my house here. Pheeee-eeeeww ! ! !
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> N78LB Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
> To: "z Kolb-List" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: From Mouse to Moose....
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina"
<planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
> >
> > Hey Big Lar,
> > You gonna take that??? I think you should put that mouse in
> the SKY and make a MOOSE outa of it....He he he
> >
> > Gotta Fly...
> > Mike in MN
> >
> >
> > SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > i think non flying mooses are a dime a dozen..... at least a dime a
six
> > pack.... not get that thing flying and it may be another story.
> >
> > boyd
> > >
>
>
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