Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Rusty building again, comparing engines (Jim Gerken)
2. 07:13 AM - Re: book binding tape (Bruce Harrison)
3. 08:13 AM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (RD)
4. 09:11 AM - Re: bookbinding tape (David Paule)
5. 11:10 AM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (Denny Rowe)
6. 12:01 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (John Hauck)
7. 02:18 PM - Re: Hurricane Charley report (N27SB@aol.com)
8. 03:31 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (Denny Rowe)
9. 04:00 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (Jim Clayton)
10. 04:43 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (robert bean)
11. 05:08 PM - one for the home team (Paul Petty)
12. 06:29 PM - Firestar For sale (Jon Croke)
13. 06:56 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (RD)
14. 07:02 PM - free mags (Bob N.)
15. 07:02 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (Denny Rowe)
16. 07:15 PM - Fw: making your own parts (David Paule)
17. 08:38 PM - Re: one for the home team (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
18. 08:43 PM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (Jack & Louise Hart)
19. 09:36 PM - Re: free mags (George Bass)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rusty building again, comparing engines |
07:04:32 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>I've recently considered virtually everything available, and I just kept
>coming back to the SS. The Kolbra was tempting, but I just don't need a
full
>rear seat. I also like the extra performance of the SS, along with the
>ability to use any engine, from the 503 to a 912ULS. The plane is more
>compact, so it will fit in the hanger better, and the airframe is strong
as
>an ox. The engine choice is undecided, aside from not planning to use a
>2-stroke. The current thoughts are the HKS, 912ULS (John Hauck's personal
>favorite), or perhaps a single rotor Mazda concoction (trying hard to
>resist). Plenty of time to decide.
>Cheers,
>Rusty (new builder again)
Rusty, if the HKS is being considered, add the R100 BMW to the list. The
R100 will make about as much power as a 582, weigh just a bit more (very
close if you are comparing 582 with electric start and battery), and cost
about $3500 installed (I machined the adapting components, bought a brand
new "C" box, and paid $1100 for the engine with tach, and I spent less than
$3000 total to complete it). Dual ignition can be done for a small
additional cost, I have not felt the need to do so. Mine is on a Mkiii
classic, and everytime I fly I wish it was a SS instead.
Jim Gerken
Message 2
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| Subject: | book binding tape |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrison" <firestarii@hotmail.com>
Thanks everyone for your input on the gap seals. I will try the local
options first, then the mail order, then I'll back back to you boyd if I
need help.
do not archive
>From: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
>Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>To: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: book binding tape
>Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:26:09 -0600
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
>
>Can anyone suggest where I can get the book-binding tape to seal the
>aileron
>gaps? I guess I need about 12 feet of the two sizes of tape.
>
>
>my wife workes at the local library and she was able to order it for
>me..... go into your local library and see if they will do the same for
>you or i will order some more for you.
>
>
>boyd
>
>do not archive
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 3
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| Subject: | Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Rusty, if the HKS is being considered, add the R100 BMW to the list.
Jim Gerken
-----------------------
Hi Jim,
I'll consider most anything at this stage, but I'm really trying hard to
talk myself into spending the bucks for a 912ULS. If you have any pics of
your engine, how about emailing them to me at the address below. It's DSL,
so size doesn't matter (now where have I heard that before...).
Thanks,
Rusty (engine shopping)
13brv3c@bellsouth.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: bookbinding tape |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
I just ordered two rolls of dacron sail-repair tape from APS, (800)
729-9767, for $4.15 each. They are 2" x 15'.
APS is a sailboat supply shop.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FS II that I haven't flown yet
and yes, a sailboat, too.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rusty building again, comparing engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Rusty, if the HKS is being considered, add the R100 BMW to the list.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
Rusty
Also you should consider the Jabiru 2200, Luray W from York PA has one on
his Slingshot with a 64 inch Tennessee prop and says it will top out at
102mph.
There seems to be quite a few on Mk-3s also with pretty happy owners. There
is no cleaner installation for a Kolb than the Jabiru, no extra plumbing or
rads.
In addition to the R100 BMW, there is also an 1150 or 1100 conversion out
there that has a little more power, check Barnstormers.com by typing in BMW.
But if you see a good deal on a used Jabiru 2200 just remember, its MINE
MINE, ALL MINE, to quote Daffy Duck. :-)
So many choices, not enough money. :-(
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, 2SI 690L-70, PA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Denny R/Gang:
Before one starts mounting direct drive Jabiru engines on their
MKIII's, SS"s, and Kolbra's, one might want to check with List member
John Williamson. John has a lot of experience flying his Kolbra
powered with the Jabiru direct drive engine.
I know, from several days flying escort to John, that the Jabiru is
not an exciting engine on a Kolb. Take off and climb performance are
marginal. However, once John got her wound up and cruising, she
would fly as fast or faster than my MKIII powered by the 912ULS.
Again, from experience flying John's wing, or trying to catch up with
him during this past flight to MV, the 912ULS produced a combination
that outclimbed, outcruised, and outran my MKIII.
We could argue a weight difference, but only guessing, my MKIII loaded
with 25 gal of fuel and all the gear I carry, probably weighs more
than John's rig.
I don't know that Rusty has flown a SS with a 582 or a 912 or 912ULS,
but if he did, he would most likely notice the tremendous difference
in performance over the 503. However, a direct drive Jabiru, Subaru,
and 503 will make a mediocre performer out of a SS. Rusty should
know. He tried to fly his first SS with a 503. First thing he did
after initial flights was try to figure out how to get more power out
of the 503.
I am sure I do not look at Kolbs like many of you other Kolbers. My
impression of the Kolb is a "super" STOL heavy hauler with respectable
cruise. Not an airplane that will spend its life flying off a 3,000
ft paved strip from point A to point B and back.
I know 912's and 912ULS's are expensive to purchase, but they deliver
what you pay for: power, reliability, low maintenance, and low
operating cost.
The type of sport we are engaged in is hazardous. The air is thin,
gravity is strong, and the ground is hard. A lot of ways out their to
lose our airplanes and our lives. After flying the 912/912ULS for
more than 10 years and 2,025.0 hours, I have become accustomed to an
engine that has been there to get me home every time, except, of
course, the two times I fed it water and highly contaminated fuel.
Not the engine's fault for not running, but the pilot's fault for not
taking a fuel sample after refueling. It did get me home, both times,
after changing fuel filters, and in the case of water, pumping and
draining the fuel system until I had purged all the water.
We do not know, on the Kolb List, how the two BMW's are performing,
unless some discussion was done while I was out of the circuit. I
certainly have nothing against BMW engines. In fact, I am shopping
for an R1150GS Adventure or an R1200GS Adventure to make an
Alaska/Canada ride on, one of these days before I get too old to do
it.
As for Corvairs, I am sure they are great engines, but I for one, will
stick to my tried and proven Rotax 912/912ULS. Same goes for
Geo/Suzuki (can't leave Bob B out of this, hehehe).
My message is not to discourage anyone from experimenting with any
kind of engine to power their Kolbs. I am only expressing my own
experience and desires. I think each and every member of the Kolb
List has that right, to share the way they feel about their own
equipment.
Take care,
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hurricane Charley report |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
Sorry to hear about your plane, we got hit dead center here in Orlando but
you guys wore him out a bit first. I am working on a MKIII. If you get stuck for
a part and need it in a hurry maybe I can help you out.
We just got power last night and water today. HOT SHOWERS AND A/C TONITE!
do not archive
steve boetto
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
John,
I agree with all your comments 100%, no doubt the 912 is the strongest most
proven Kolb powerplant.
I like the Jabiru because of the light weight and clean simplicity of the
installation. Its good to hear how Johns Kolbra had such a nice cruise with
the Jab but of course the Kolbra would be a lot cleaner bird than our Mk-3s.
If I recall correctly, John W ran a 58 inch blade on his Jabiru, this no
doubt was not the optimum climb prop for a Kolb installation. Most folks I
have heard from with Jabiru 2200 on Kolbs are running 62 or 64 inch diameter
props.
My friend Luray replaced his 690L-70 on his Slingshot with a 2200 and a 64
inch wood prop, I'll double check with him to get all the numbers, but If I
recall correctly he said he was getting over 1000fpm climb and the top speed
was over 100mph.
Also know of a couple Mk-3s running 62 and 64 inch props that say they love
the 2200.
Of course with the faster turning prop, the noise will be worse than a 912,
but all and all these guys love the simple clean light Jabiru.
On another note, you guys who don't live in western PA should count
yourselves lucky, this summer has been a total wash! Rain that will not end
day after freaking day. I have never seen two summers as wet and cold as our
last two, it really has depressed the crap out of this flyer. On top of
this, the last two winters have been as cold and severe as any in my 37
years, ARGH!
OK, thats enough venting for one day, fly safe everyone.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, 690L-70, PA
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
John H, Denny R/Gang,
I have the same vision John H. does for the Kolbs, and
that drives my choice of engine.
John said: "My impression of the Kolb is a "super"
STOL heavy hauler with respectable
cruise. Not an airplane that will spend its life
flying off a 3,000
ft paved strip from point A to point B and back."
So what we are talking about is a plane that can carry
near (or better than!) it's own weight out of
amazingly short strips and cruise fast enough to get
the job done. The Kolbs are certainly no RV-x hot
rod, but then as John points out, they don't need 3000
ft. of runway either.
For this mission, an engine that produces high thrust
at lower airspeeds is best. The easiest way to
produce high thrust at low speeds is to have a large
diameter (area) propeller turning at low rpm's.
Propeller speed reduction units (PSU) in front of a
piston engine are a proven combination because piston
engines are happiest at higher rpm's than is optimum
for big propellers.
A direct drive engine is going to turn the propeller
at higher rpms and so the diameter will need to be
reduced to keep the tip speed below the limit. What
are smaller propellers good at? Going fast! At
higher airframe airspeeds the smaller diameter
propeller will more efficiently produce thrust making
your RV-x or Glassair go very fast, but they are
runway gobblers by Kolb standards! In a Kolb, we will
never go real fast due to the wing design etc. This
will always be a high lift, low speed plane. For my
mission, an engine that creates most of it's thrust at
high airspeeds will only work best for the top 4 or 5
mph of a Kolb's speed range, and do less efficiently
in the lower speeds of the flight envelope.
In deference to the many, great, direct-drive Kolbs
with perfectly happy owners out there, this is my
mission I am discussing, and anyone considering
engines must first chose the mission, then chose an
engine that will meet that mission.
I hope this helps give a framework to consider what
kind of engine you will be most happy with.
-Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, 912ULS.....Building
Website with pictures coming soon
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
On 20, Aug 2004, at 6:26 PM, Denny Rowe wrote:
> On another note, you guys who don't live in western PA should count
> yourselves lucky, this summer has been a total wash! Rain that will
> not end
> day after freaking day. I have never seen two summers as wet and cold
> as our
> last two, it really has depressed the crap out of this flyer.
Denny, we've had a few bad days up here in noo yawk but on the bright
side
I'm real glad I put in greens this year...the collards are enough to
make a southern
boy jealous, plus mustards, huge white radish....gotta look at the
bright side.
re: props, if you have a not-so-fast airplane and you want to climb, go
for
diameter. If you have a slippery craft and you want to go fast, get a
short prop.
Sometimes it takes a little experimentation (and expensive props
sitting in a box)
-BB, one in a box do not archive
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | one for the home team |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
Just a short note before heading to the shop to make more steel tangs for mounting
things on the airframe. I have the luxury of being able to run live chat in
yahoo at work while doing other things and hang out in a chat room most of the
time when not busy chatting with other pilots in a chat room called "The Hanger".
It's listed under recreation/the hanger. Also use ICQ and AOL to chat with
John Hauck and Steve in FLA and Wayne Wilson in Canada and Will Uribe. Anyway,
today a fella from Maine asked me about my Kolb aircraft. He was telling
me how impressed he was with Kolb aircrafts performance. I asked of course where
he had seen Kolb aircraft in the air and turns out he was a judge at sun-n-fun
one year. He then told me that they had a very hard time judging the Kolb's
because they were always in the air when all the others were on the ground due
to windy conditions. :-) This conversation came about after my telling him
the story about Don in the Firefly in a 20mph crosswind that day he shot the video.
I got busy and he left the chat before I could ask him what year he was
there....
Fun stuff guys yall feel free to join in!
My id's are as follows
AOL scrittie99
ICQ 269388051
Yahoo Kolbra012 go figure
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Firestar For sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Boy,
there seems to be a lot of Firestars for sale...
Well, I've added mine to the fold, and priced it better than the rest (!)
To save bandwith, all the details are on my site at www.joncroke.com
Why (?) I need the $$ for a 912 for my 'other' project..... (does it seem
that all your airplane money eventually ends up in Rotax's hands, one way or
another?)
Jon
near Green Bay, Wi
N701US
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Interesting discussion.
First, I'd like to say that John H could save himself some typing if he'd
just put that 503 crap in his signature :-) Yes, I had a 503, and wasn't
happy with the lack of performance. In reality, it was OK, but not what the
SS deserved.
Jim makes a good point about gear drives, for climb vs. speed. Of course if
you have a high rpm engine, you can have both :-) I can't really see ever
cruising at more than 90 mph or so with the SS, so high speed certainly
isn't needed. I'd rather have the thrust for short field work, and climb, so
I'm pretty much ruling out direct drives.
One of the other problems mentioned about the Jabiru was the lack of cooling
with slow planes. I've heard it's a fantastic engine, but not necessarily
for slow, pusher style planes. Also, it's almost as expensive as the
912ULS, so why not take the extra power.
If I had to decide right now, I'd bust open the piggy bank, and order a
912ULS. I honestly believe I'd still have my original SS if I had a 912 on
it. Live and learn. I'm looking forward to building another one, so it's
no big loss though.
Finally, now that I've thought about it some more, the only "conversion" I'm
going to consider is the single rotor Mazda. I love rotary engines, and
already trust one with my life. The conversion would be a lot of work
though, since it's not a normal engine configuration. There's plenty of
power, more than 100 HP if desired, but the weight is probably a bit more
than a 912.
The main drawback to the single rotor is that I already have a seemingly
full time engine project with the rotary RV-3, and I really want something I
can just bolt together and fly. TNK sells everything you need to do just
that with a 912ULS, so it's really the leading choice, though painful to
purchase.
Thanks for all the comments.
Rusty (bring on kit#1)
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
I'm putting this on the Kolb list first.
Due to some pressure, mainly from The War Department, and the Grim
Reaper, I want to get rid/giveaway a large pile of Ultralight Flying!
mags, dating from late '95 to early '03. Pile is maybe two feet high,
weight unknown. I'll give them to anyone, free (as in a Free Gift) if
the recipient pays the freight/UPS. In fact, I'll send first and wait
for the UPS repayment. I surely dislike just taking them to the dump.
Lemme know. If no offers, I'll go to FLY-UL.
Bob N.
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
> Denny, we've had a few bad days up here in noo yawk but on the bright
> side
> I'm real glad I put in greens this year...the collards are enough to
> make a southern
> boy jealous, plus mustards, huge white radish....gotta look at the
> bright side.
Bob,
You are right, it is a lot better to stay on the positives, Thanks for the
note and I'll try a little harder to deal better with my climate.
I do have more than most to be thankful for.
Denny
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fw: making your own parts |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
I'm on another List for Farrier-designed trimaran sailboats. This was posted
on it today. I'm forwarding it to this List in the event anyone is
interested. I don't know of the outfit and so this is for whatever it might
be worth.
They do have a free CAD program, though.
If you want to read about some very interesting sailboats, try
www.f-boat.com. I have one of these boats, a Corsair F-27, and it fully
lives up to its reputation. The boat folds and is roughly the size of one of
the trailers that you use for your Kolb. Unfolded, it's 27 feet long, 19
feet wide, and the mast is 37 feet long.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
> For all you gadgeteers and home boat builders out there, I recently
> read about this website that might come in handy.
>
> www.emachineshop.com
>
> It allows you to draw (right on the website), and have built,
> anything you want at reasonable prices.
>
> I am not afilliated in any way shape or form with this company...it
> just sounded like a good place to have custom stuff made (like
> autopilot brackets and mounting hardware).
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: one for the home team |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
I live in Maine and this is my first year with a Kolb Firestar and I have
been going to a different Fly-in every weekend and have been getting many
compliments on it and I will say it is a performer but I am looking at making
it
quieter in the cockpit and maybe even give me a bit more cruse speed I am
running a 66" 32 pitch wood prop on a 447 rotax I think I need more pitch on the
prop to keep the rpm down to 6000 even though I do not run it at the limit it
will go to, if I change the pitch I should get better cruse speed any
suggestions on what pitch to get? for a better cruse speed and any ideas on what
to do
to eliminate some noise?
Ellery in Maine
Time flies when
your having fun
We will be ice
fishing in no time
Message 18
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| Subject: | Rusty building again, comparing engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 03:57 PM 8/20/04 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
>So what we are talking about is a plane that can carry
>near (or better than!) it's own weight out of
>amazingly short strips and cruise fast enough to get
>the job done. The Kolbs are certainly no RV-x hot
>rod, but then as John points out, they don't need 3000
>ft. of runway either.
Jim
It is normal for a FireFly loaded with a full tank, some tie downs, and a
few other odds and ends plus the pilot to pretty much always be carrying
more weight than what it weighs.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
do not archive
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
Bob N.;
A fellow by the name of Scott Perkins, on another
list ( http://vula.org ) called Vintage Ultralights,
is a ravenous collector of pictures and such and I
think he would be very happy to take the mags off
your hands (just a guess on my part). I think you
could contact him through the link above.
Good luck,
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
USUA #30899
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