---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/21/04: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Re: Hurricane Charley report (Jim Ballenger) 2. 05:02 AM - weather (Dan Charter) 3. 05:14 AM - Re: one for the home team (Dan Charter) 4. 05:18 AM - More Jabiru jabber (Kirk Smith) 5. 05:46 AM - Re: More Jabiru jabber (woody) 6. 05:57 AM - Re: , comparing engines (woody) 7. 06:13 AM - Re: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report (Richard Swiderski) 8. 06:15 AM - Re: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report (Richard Swiderski) 9. 06:33 AM - Re: More Jabiru jabber (Kirk Smith) 10. 07:12 AM - Re: More Jabiru jabber (John Hauck) 11. 07:42 AM - Re: , comparing engines (John Hauck) 12. 07:52 AM - Re: , comparing engines (Olenik Aviation) 13. 08:03 AM - Re: weather (Larry Bourne) 14. 08:09 AM - Welcome back Rusty! (Dan Cooper) 15. 08:25 AM - Re: Welcome back Rusty! (John Hauck) 16. 08:34 AM - Spybots (Larry Bourne) 17. 09:28 AM - Re: Spybots (Dan Charter) 18. 09:48 AM - Re: Rusty building again, comparing engines (William George) 19. 10:09 AM - Re: Welcome back Rusty! (RD) 20. 12:12 PM - Re: Fw: making your own parts (N27SB@aol.com) 21. 01:37 PM - Re: Fw: making your own parts (N27SB@aol.com) 22. 02:44 PM - Re: free mags (Joseph Brett Walmsley) 23. 02:47 PM - Jabbyroo (Kirk Smith) 24. 03:50 PM - Re: Jabbyroo (John Hauck) 25. 04:40 PM - Re: Jabbyroo (Dallas Shepherd) 26. 05:00 PM - Re: one for the home team (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 27. 05:05 PM - Re: Spybots (Larry Bourne) 28. 05:29 PM - Re: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice (Richard Swiderski) 29. 05:44 PM - Re: Jabbyroo (Kirk Smith) 30. 06:51 PM - Re: one for the home team (Dan Charter) 31. 07:20 PM - Re: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice (RD) 32. 07:40 PM - Progress? (Beauford) 33. 07:42 PM - Re: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report (Denny Rowe) 34. 08:01 PM - Re: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice (John Cooley) 35. 08:12 PM - Re: Progress? (robert bean) 36. 08:16 PM - Re: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice (RD) 37. 09:02 PM - to kolb list Re: thrust calculator (garvelink) 38. 09:16 PM - Re: Jabbyroo (HShack@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:41 AM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hurricane Charley report --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" Duncan Sorry to hear about the damage to your Kolb. I hope you can get back to somewhat of a normal life soon and get to rebuilding the plane. Jim Ballenger Flying a FS KXP 447 Building a MK III X Virginia Beach, VA DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Kolb-List: Hurricane Charley report > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" > > Hey guys, > In June I was able to sublease a hanger at Charlotte County Airport. I was > really happy to get the Mark III inside during the South Florida Summer, > it's really a hothouse down here, and hard on metal airplanes. I haven't > been flying so much either in the heat, so it was really nice to have the > plane stay clean when I couldn't get out to the field every weekend. > > So much for good plans. You probably know Charlotte County was right in the > path of Hurricane Charley. I live in Fort Myers, 20 miles south, and I lost > power from Friday until Monday evening. Saturday I was scurrying around > finding ice for my mom and dad and my fiance and her three girls. I just > assumed the plane was safe in its hangar. Sunday morning I was setting up > mom and dad with a Coleman stove to make coffee, a top priority, when Barb > calls to tell me the Sunday paper had a story about how the airport suffered > major damage, hangars down and planes piled up like broken toys. My dad and > I drive up to the airport and its just terrible. From a distance I could > see the big commercial hangars and they were all damaged. The terminal had > lost its roof. The biggest hangar on the field usually housed three or four > big bizjets, and it was flat on the ground. Gone. The saddest thing was a > DC-3 on one collapsed gear leg, the vertical tail in tatters, pushed up > against a pile of sheet metal. Just about made you cry. > > My T-hangar was in the third row from the entrance and I couldn't see it > from where we had to wait. The first row was total devastation. The hangar > doors had been ripped off down the whole line and the planes inside tossed > around in the hangars like somebody was stirring ice tea. Half the hangars > lost their roof as soon as the doors were gone and in those the planes had > been ripped out and blown down the field. I was going crazy but we had to > wait for the governer's helicopter to take off. He was showing the > president around, who had taken off a few minutes before we arrived. > Finally they let us through and we could drive onto the field. Another big > hanger that normally held six or seven singles in various states of repair > was half torn to bits, most of the bits sitting on top of dented up > airplanes. Balls of aluminum the size of Volkswagons that used to be > Mooneys, Cessnas and Pipers were scattered around the ramp and down the > taxiways. A few planes had been blown out into the field and were upside > down in the grass. I was getting ready for the worst as I drove around the > wreckage to get to my hangar. It could have been worse. The doors had > fallen in on either side of the fuselage and broken both wings. The wings > and control surfaces were a total loss. The fuselage and tail are ok. I > need a new nose cone where the door scraped off the tip, and there is a bent > rib in an elevator to fix. It'll fly again. Which is a lot more than you > could say about a lot of the planes out there. I'm kind of depressed and > grateful at the same time. Bummer. > > I spent Sunday getting the wings off and trailering the fuselage home. > Spent Monday at general post-hurricane survival, Tuesday salvaging the > strobes and power supplies from the wings and Wednesday taking my future > stepdaughter to Gainesville to start at UF. Today after work I finished up > at the airport. I just got home tonight from hacksawing out the hardware I > could salvage, the aileron counterweights and control horns. I didn't get > my internet connection back up until last night, and this is the first > chance I've had to post a message. > > I'll check with TNK about a partial kit - there is a guy on Barnstormers > with a partially completed Kit #1 I'll ask about. If anyone knows of a #1 > kit sitting around that someone has lost interest in, I'm in the market. > > I took a bunch of pictures of the wreckage at the airport, it is really > incredible what the storm did. When I get the time I'll put them up on my > website and post the address to the list. > > I don't think 319DM will be flying in time for the Kolb reunion, but we'll > be thinking of you all, down here in sunny tropical Southwest Florida. ( I > won't even start on the poor woman who got bit by the alligator....) I'm > starting to work up some enthusiasm for rebuilding. It's slow, but it will > come. > > Fly safe, and tie 'em down tight, > Duncan McBride > 319DM, Twinstar Mk III > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:34 AM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Kolb-List: weather --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" I was finally able to get the Firestar up again last night. The wind has been around the 20 mph mark for a few days. It's nice and calm this morning but I'm having a hard time walking out the door to fly when it's 35 degrees. I'll fly at 10 below zero but this is a little cool for August. Time to break out the winter gear already! Do not archive Dan Charter Firestar 1 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:33 AM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: one for the home team --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" What's your rpm at WOT now? My Firestar is currently set up for 6000 at 50 on climb out with a 377. I'll cruise between 50/55 at 4650. It sips the fuel at that speed and my flying buddy's Himax likes 50 mph but he's running 5000 at 3 gal an hour, I'm under 2 an hour. The more prop speed at take off will give you better climb out. If I adjust my 2 blade Ivo to 6500 at a 40 mph climb out it's a rocket but my cruise R's will be higher of course. Do nor archive. Dan Charter Firestar 1 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: one for the home team > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com > > I live in Maine and this is my first year with a Kolb Firestar and I have > been going to a different Fly-in every weekend and have been getting many > compliments on it and I will say it is a performer but I am looking at making it > quieter in the cockpit and maybe even give me a bit more cruse speed I am > running a 66" 32 pitch wood prop on a 447 rotax I think I need more pitch on the > prop to keep the rpm down to 6000 even though I do not run it at the limit it > will go to, if I change the pitch I should get better cruse speed any > suggestions on what pitch to get? for a better cruse speed and any ideas on what to do > to eliminate some noise? > > > Ellery in Maine > Time flies when > your having fun > We will be ice > fishing in no time > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:11 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: More Jabiru jabber --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Woody just installed a Jabiru on his Kolb. I wonder what kind of performance figures he's getting with it? Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:32 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Jabiru jabber --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" I haven;t been flying it much yet to get good numbers but It is better than a 582. Fuel burn is around 2 1/2gallons /hr. That was with 3 takeoff and landings and a cruise rpm of 2400. Easy climb out is 900 fpm. Keep in mind I have done several modifications to this aircraft so your results may vary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: More Jabiru jabber > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Woody just installed a Jabiru on his Kolb. I wonder what kind of performance figures he's getting with it? > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:50 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: , comparing engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" Take off and climb are marginal??? How big are your margins? I suppose the 20 hp less helps compared to a 912. > > I know, from several days flying escort to John, that the Jabiru is > not an exciting engine on a Kolb. Take off and climb performance are > marginal. However, once John got her wound up and cruising, she > would fly as fast or faster than my MKIII powered by the 912ULS. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:12 AM PST US From: "Richard Swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" Duncun, I have an admission of guilt to make. You see, this south Florida mess from Charley is all my fault. It started about five years ago during Ocala's last hurricane threat. At the time I had a huge tent in my backyard which I had constructed to build my kolb trailer in. It was about 30ft long, 10ft wide & 12ft high. My trailer was finished but the tent was still up because a backyard hanger always comes in handy to put junk in. Well after seeing the weather report & how the hurricane was coming dead on, & commenced to taking it down & piling up the accrued junk in my garage & sheds. This was no small project, because I had to rearrange & restack the junk that was already there. Now as soon as I finished, I collapsed into my tv couch to see how bad it was going to be. That's when I 1st realized that I had special powers. The hurricane took a turn away from Ocala & barely sent a few puffs of wind our way. Now, when I moved out into the country 2.5 years ago, I set up that old circus tent again to store some good junk in. It's legs were cut a few feet shorter & its' length shortened a lot, but it was still a phoenix of the big mamma of my trailer. Well, last Thursday they told me to not bother showing up for work on Friday because Ocala was right in the path of this soon to be category 3 hurricane & the whole town is going to be shut down. No way would this prove to be a day off from work. I did all the easy stuff 1st, like tying stuff to trees, boarding up windows, stockpiling water, fixing my generator & removing the hanging porch lights. Then I went after the dreaded circus tent with its 3 million tons of good junk. It contents was a work of art if you are into building beaver dams. There wasn't a bit of unclaimed space. I took a deep breath, wiped my tears, & went to work. The amount of junk I have gathered over the last five years has not been a linear growth. After stuffing my shop, my garage & sheds with its content, I stripped her of those beloved white tarps. Staring at her naked frame standing out against the darkened storm clouds was a sickening feeling only exceeded by the sight of my last remaining path in my shop being covered up with years of junk in only a few hours. I collapsed again into my tv chair to see how bad we were going to be hit. That's when I realized what I had done. Just as before, as soon as I dismantled my magic circus tent, the storm took a turn. It was a difficult moment to define. On one hand, I felt guilty for what I caused to all those people in south Florida. One the other hand, I was relieved we wouldn't loose our electricity & I could still watch Discovery Wings tonight. On the third hand, I was crying, because I knew deep down, it would take me three weeks to put all my junk back where it belongs & also rebuild my circus tent to deter the next Big One. Now you know guys. Richard Swiderski SlingShot (waiting for its Sprint Turbo) Do not archive > Hey guys, > In June I was able to sublease a hanger at Charlotte County Airport. I was > really happy to get the Mark III inside during the South Florida Summer, > it's really a hothouse down here, and hard on metal airplanes. I haven't > been flying so much either in the heat, so it was really nice to have the > plane stay clean when I couldn't get out to the field every weekend. > > So much for good plans. You probably know Charlotte County was right in the > path of Hurricane Charley. I live in Fort Myers, 20 miles south, and I lost > power from Friday until Monday evening. Saturday I was scurrying around > finding ice for my mom and dad and my fiance and her three girls. I just > assumed the plane was safe in its hangar. Sunday morning I was setting up > mom and dad with a Coleman stove to make coffee, a top priority, when Barb > calls to tell me the Sunday paper had a story about how the airport suffered > major damage, hangars down and planes piled up like broken toys. My dad and > I drive up to the airport and its just terrible. From a distance I could > see the big commercial hangars and they were all damaged. The terminal had > lost its roof. The biggest hangar on the field usually housed three or four > big bizjets, and it was flat on the ground. Gone. The saddest thing was a > DC-3 on one collapsed gear leg, the vertical tail in tatters, pushed up > against a pile of sheet metal. Just about made you cry. > > My T-hangar was in the third row from the entrance and I couldn't see it > from where we had to wait. The first row was total devastation. The hangar > doors had been ripped off down the whole line and the planes inside tossed > around in the hangars like somebody was stirring ice tea. Half the hangars > lost their roof as soon as the doors were gone and in those the planes had > been ripped out and blown down the field. I was going crazy but we had to > wait for the governer's helicopter to take off. He was showing the > president around, who had taken off a few minutes before we arrived. > Finally they let us through and we could drive onto the field. Another big > hanger that normally held six or seven singles in various states of repair > was half torn to bits, most of the bits sitting on top of dented up > airplanes. Balls of aluminum the size of Volkswagons that used to be > Mooneys, Cessnas and Pipers were scattered around the ramp and down the > taxiways. A few planes had been blown out into the field and were upside > down in the grass. I was getting ready for the worst as I drove around the > wreckage to get to my hangar. It could have been worse. The doors had > fallen in on either side of the fuselage and broken both wings. The wings > and control surfaces were a total loss. The fuselage and tail are ok. I > need a new nose cone where the door scraped off the tip, and there is a bent > rib in an elevator to fix. It'll fly again. Which is a lot more than you > could say about a lot of the planes out there. I'm kind of depressed and > grateful at the same time. Bummer. > > I spent Sunday getting the wings off and trailering the fuselage home. > Spent Monday at general post-hurricane survival, Tuesday salvaging the > strobes and power supplies from the wings and Wednesday taking my future > stepdaughter to Gainesville to start at UF. Today after work I finished up > at the airport. I just got home tonight from hacksawing out the hardware I > could salvage, the aileron counterweights and control horns. I didn't get > my internet connection back up until last night, and this is the first > chance I've had to post a message. > > I'll check with TNK about a partial kit - there is a guy on Barnstormers > with a partially completed Kit #1 I'll ask about. If anyone knows of a #1 > kit sitting around that someone has lost interest in, I'm in the market. > > I took a bunch of pictures of the wreckage at the airport, it is really > incredible what the storm did. When I get the time I'll put them up on my > website and post the address to the list. > > I don't think 319DM will be flying in time for the Kolb reunion, but we'll > be thinking of you all, down here in sunny tropical Southwest Florida. ( I > won't even start on the poor woman who got bit by the alligator....) I'm > starting to work up some enthusiasm for rebuilding. It's slow, but it will > come. > > Fly safe, and tie 'em down tight, > Duncan McBride > 319DM, Twinstar Mk III > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:21 AM PST US From: "Richard Swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" Duncun, I have an admission of guilt to make. You see, this south Florida mess from Charley is all my fault. It started about five years ago during Ocala's last hurricane threat. At the time I had a huge tent in my backyard which I had constructed to build my kolb trailer in. It was about 30ft long, 10ft wide & 12ft high. My trailer was finished but the tent was still up because a backyard hanger always comes in handy to put junk in. Well after seeing the weather report & how the hurricane was coming dead on, & commenced to taking it down & piling up the accrued junk in my garage & sheds. This was no small project, because I had to rearrange & restack the junk that was already there. Now as soon as I finished, I collapsed into my tv couch to see how bad it was going to be. That's when I 1st realized that I had special powers. The hurricane took a turn away from Ocala & barely sent a few puffs of wind our way. Now, when I moved out into the country 2.5 years ago, I set up that old circus tent again to store some good junk in. It's legs were cut a few feet shorter & its' length shortened a lot, but it was still a phoenix of the big mamma of my trailer. Well, last Thursday they told me to not bother showing up for work on Friday because Ocala was right in the path of this soon to be category 3 hurricane & the whole town is going to be shut down. No way would this prove to be a day off from work. I did all the easy stuff 1st, like tying stuff to trees, boarding up windows, stockpiling water, fixing my generator & removing the hanging porch lights. Then I went after the dreaded circus tent with its 3 million tons of good junk. It contents was a work of art if you are into building beaver dams. There wasn't a bit of unclaimed space. I took a deep breath, wiped my tears, & went to work. The amount of junk I have gathered over the last five years has not been a linear growth. After stuffing my shop, my garage & sheds with its content, I stripped her of those beloved white tarps. Staring at her naked frame standing out against the darkened storm clouds was a sickening feeling only exceeded by the sight of my last remaining path in my shop being covered up with years of junk in only a few hours. I collapsed again into my tv chair to see how bad we were going to be hit. That's when I realized what I had done. Just as before, as soon as I dismantled my magic circus tent, the storm took a turn. It was a difficult moment to define. On one hand, I felt guilty for what I caused to all those people in south Florida. One the other hand, I was relieved we wouldn't loose our electricity & I could still watch Discovery Wings tonight. On the third hand, I was crying, because I knew deep down, it would take me three weeks to put all my junk back where it belongs & also rebuild my circus tent to deter the next Big One. Now you know guys. Richard Swiderski SlingShot (waiting for its Sprint Turbo) Do not archive > > Hey guys, > In June I was able to sublease a hanger at Charlotte County Airport. I was > really happy to get the Mark III inside during the South Florida Summer, > it's really a hothouse down here, and hard on metal airplanes. I haven't > been flying so much either in the heat, so it was really nice to have the > plane stay clean when I couldn't get out to the field every weekend. > > So much for good plans. You probably know Charlotte County was right in the > path of Hurricane Charley. I live in Fort Myers, 20 miles south, and I lost > power from Friday until Monday evening. Saturday I was scurrying around > finding ice for my mom and dad and my fiance and her three girls. I just > assumed the plane was safe in its hangar. Sunday morning I was setting up > mom and dad with a Coleman stove to make coffee, a top priority, when Barb > calls to tell me the Sunday paper had a story about how the airport suffered > major damage, hangars down and planes piled up like broken toys. My dad and > I drive up to the airport and its just terrible. From a distance I could > see the big commercial hangars and they were all damaged. The terminal had > lost its roof. The biggest hangar on the field usually housed three or four > big bizjets, and it was flat on the ground. Gone. The saddest thing was a > DC-3 on one collapsed gear leg, the vertical tail in tatters, pushed up > against a pile of sheet metal. Just about made you cry. > > My T-hangar was in the third row from the entrance and I couldn't see it > from where we had to wait. The first row was total devastation. The hangar > doors had been ripped off down the whole line and the planes inside tossed > around in the hangars like somebody was stirring ice tea. Half the hangars > lost their roof as soon as the doors were gone and in those the planes had > been ripped out and blown down the field. I was going crazy but we had to > wait for the governer's helicopter to take off. He was showing the > president around, who had taken off a few minutes before we arrived. > Finally they let us through and we could drive onto the field. Another big > hanger that normally held six or seven singles in various states of repair > was half torn to bits, most of the bits sitting on top of dented up > airplanes. Balls of aluminum the size of Volkswagons that used to be > Mooneys, Cessnas and Pipers were scattered around the ramp and down the > taxiways. A few planes had been blown out into the field and were upside > down in the grass. I was getting ready for the worst as I drove around the > wreckage to get to my hangar. It could have been worse. The doors had > fallen in on either side of the fuselage and broken both wings. The wings > and control surfaces were a total loss. The fuselage and tail are ok. I > need a new nose cone where the door scraped off the tip, and there is a bent > rib in an elevator to fix. It'll fly again. Which is a lot more than you > could say about a lot of the planes out there. I'm kind of depressed and > grateful at the same time. Bummer. > > I spent Sunday getting the wings off and trailering the fuselage home. > Spent Monday at general post-hurricane survival, Tuesday salvaging the > strobes and power supplies from the wings and Wednesday taking my future > stepdaughter to Gainesville to start at UF. Today after work I finished up > at the airport. I just got home tonight from hacksawing out the hardware I > could salvage, the aileron counterweights and control horns. I didn't get > my internet connection back up until last night, and this is the first > chance I've had to post a message. > > I'll check with TNK about a partial kit - there is a guy on Barnstormers > with a partially completed Kit #1 I'll ask about. If anyone knows of a #1 > kit sitting around that someone has lost interest in, I'm in the market. > > I took a bunch of pictures of the wreckage at the airport, it is really > incredible what the storm did. When I get the time I'll put them up on my > website and post the address to the list. > > I don't think 319DM will be flying in time for the Kolb reunion, but we'll > be thinking of you all, down here in sunny tropical Southwest Florida. ( I > won't even start on the poor woman who got bit by the alligator....) I'm > starting to work up some enthusiasm for rebuilding. It's slow, but it will > come. > > Fly safe, and tie 'em down tight, > Duncan McBride > 319DM, Twinstar Mk III > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:26 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Jabiru jabber --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > I haven;t been flying it much yet to get good numbers but It is better > than a 582. Fuel burn is around 2 1/2gallons /hr. That was with 3 takeoff > and landings and a cruise rpm of 2400. Easy climb out is 900 fpm. Keep in > mind I have done several modifications to this aircraft so your results may > vary. Thanks Woody, Are you having any problems with overheating on the engine? Do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:27 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Jabiru jabber --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | Fuel burn is around 2 1/2gallons /hr. That was with 3 takeoff | and landings and a cruise rpm of 2400. Easy climb out is 900 fpm. Keep in | mind I have done several modifications to this aircraft so your results may | vary. Woody Hi Woody/Gang: You will probably get a more realistic fuel burn when you do your first cross country flight. I have found that flying Kolbs in the traffic pattern usually results in much lower fuel burn than actual cross country flying. Your Thunderbird could hardly be called a MKIII, with the drastic changes made to the wings. Will be interesting to compare performance between your wing and a standard MKIII wing. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:43 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: , comparing engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" suppose the | 20 hp less helps compared to a 912. Woody Woody/Gang: Take off and climb performance with the Jabiru powered Kolbra of John Williamson was marginal during the three days that we cross country'd together in 2003. You have to remember, we were both heavily loaded in a serious long cross country configuration. Performance is reduced quite a bit in both aircraft when they are loaded up. After flying my MKIII for 48 days loaded to max gross weight, I was pleasantly surprised at what a sky rocket Miss P'fer became the first time I flew here empty with 10 gal of fuel on board. Actually, there is only 15 hp difference between my 912ULS and the 80 hp Jabiru. The only way to get 100 hp out of the 912ULS is turn it 5,800 rpm (limited to 5 minutes). Since I have a ground adjustable prop, I prop my engine to turn 5,500 rpm (max continuous power) which produces 95 hp. I don't think it was the 15 hp difference that made that much difference between take off and climb performance. Last year I was running a 70" 3 blade Warp Drive Prop. John was running a 58" 2 blade Warp. Makes a lot of difference how the power is transmitted. Again, I am not saying the Jabiru is a bad engine. I am saying engines with reduction drives swinging larger diameter multibladed props perform much better on a Kolb than a direct drive engine swinging a small two blade prop. I wonder why John W pulled the Jab off and installed a 912ULS on his Kolbra? john h ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:36 AM PST US From: "Olenik Aviation" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: , comparing engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" Yes, the prop makes a big difference. It's not HP that moves the aircraft. You can have all the HP in the world and it doesn't mean anything if its not converted to thrust. I've made a 75% increase in climb performance before on certain aircraft by simply going to a different prop on the same engine. The Jabiru's weakness seems to be that it is a direct drive engine that turns up to 3300 RPM to get 80 HP. That limits the prop to a pretty small prop which is good for faster planes or for cruise, but not ideal for climb performance. That prop is most likely stalling until you get some airspeed going. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... (DO NOT USE THIS E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR DIRECT E-MAIL. WE WILL NEVER SEE IT. USE THE ABOVE CONTACT INFORMATION TO CONTACT US DIRECTLY) -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: , comparing engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" suppose the | 20 hp less helps compared to a 912. Woody Woody/Gang: Take off and climb performance with the Jabiru powered Kolbra of John Williamson was marginal during the three days that we cross country'd together in 2003. You have to remember, we were both heavily loaded in a serious long cross country configuration. Performance is reduced quite a bit in both aircraft when they are loaded up. After flying my MKIII for 48 days loaded to max gross weight, I was pleasantly surprised at what a sky rocket Miss P'fer became the first time I flew here empty with 10 gal of fuel on board. Actually, there is only 15 hp difference between my 912ULS and the 80 hp Jabiru. The only way to get 100 hp out of the 912ULS is turn it 5,800 rpm (limited to 5 minutes). Since I have a ground adjustable prop, I prop my engine to turn 5,500 rpm (max continuous power) which produces 95 hp. I don't think it was the 15 hp difference that made that much difference between take off and climb performance. Last year I was running a 70" 3 blade Warp Drive Prop. John was running a 58" 2 blade Warp. Makes a lot of difference how the power is transmitted. Again, I am not saying the Jabiru is a bad engine. I am saying engines with reduction drives swinging larger diameter multibladed props perform much better on a Kolb than a direct drive engine swinging a small two blade prop. I wonder why John W pulled the Jab off and installed a 912ULS on his Kolbra? john h ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:37 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: weather --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" 35 degrees in August ! ! ! It's hard to picture. I was going to rent a plane yesterday so I could go and take some pics down by the Salton Sea, and backed off cause it was 102 deg and I didn't feel like "enjoying" the sweat bath. That's cooler than usual for us, too, but right now 35 sounds wonderful............tho' I do know that in real life it's cold for flying. This morning we'll be holding our EAA chapter meeting up at a member's condo at Big Bear Lake (airport elev. 6725 +/-) just to get out of the heat. What Fun, eh ?? :-) And what a contrast between the 2 parts of the country. Big Lar Do not Archive. P.S. Having the EAA chapter meetings on Saturday mornings has turned out to be a good idea. Have the meeting fairly early (usually - this morning it's set for 10:00 AM 'cause a the drive up there) and after the meeting go for a fly-out brunch somewhere. Very enjoyable, and easier on us old farts than an evening meeting. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Kolb-List: weather > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > I was finally able to get the Firestar up again last night. The wind has been around the 20 mph mark for a few days. It's nice and calm this morning but I'm having a hard time walking out the door to fly when it's 35 degrees. I'll fly at 10 below zero but this is a little cool for August. Time to break out the winter gear already! Do not archive > Dan Charter > Firestar 1 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:27 AM PST US From: "Dan Cooper" Subject: Kolb-List: Welcome back Rusty! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Cooper" Rusty, Glad you would choose an SS again. I am currently in the fourth year of a three month build on my SS. Had some doubt about the high stall/wing loading and considered swapping for a FS again. This renewed vigor may get me back out in the shop....right after the new barn doors, shed roof... Dan Cooper (SS#17) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:11 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Welcome back Rusty! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" swapping for a FS again. | | Dan Cooper (SS#17) Hi Dan/All: Don't let the little bitty 22' wing span of the SS intimidate you. The SS is really a typical flying Kolb with a terrific roll rate and a little higher top speed. I found it a fun airplane to fly, once I got over the sight of those tiny wings and miniature lift struts hanging out there. IIRC stall speed was right at 40 mph indicated clean, and about 35 or 36 mph with full flaperons. I was impressed. I got a chance to fly the old Kolb Factory SS at Sun and Fun some years ago with a passenger and commercial video camera. Guess the additional weight to be about 200 lbs. Was surprised to discover how well the SS flew with the 582 and this much weight. It actually felt more comfortable, although performance was degraded slightly. There is a huge cow pasture south of South Lakeland Airport. Loaded up with passenger and camera, we had a ball staying below tree top level flying inside the pasture. The SS did good. john h ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:24 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Spybots --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I realize (again) that this isn't "Kolb" related, but I think some may gain a benefit. As you all know, I've been thru a considerable pain in the nuisance with excessive spam for quite some time, and have *sorta* tamed the worst of it with a filter. A couple of months ago, Bill Husted's syndicated newspaper help line recommended using a "spybot" remover, in addition to spam filters and firewalls. Hmmm..............saved the article, but put the whole thing on the back burner. A little uneasy about it, ya know. Then, a couple of weeks ago the new issue of Consumer Reports recommended the same program that Bill Husted had. Okay, I went ahead and downloaded it, ( www.safer-networking.org ) tho' I don't generally trust freeware - and this IS free. You'll get a choice of places to download it from. (I used c/net) That program found and removed 217 (I counted 'em) spybots, yet still left the needed cookies in place. All my favorites still work - tho' to be safe I did back them up before starting. Big deal, eh ?? Well, in the last couple of weeks I've noticed that start-up and shut down of my computer is faster. When not in use, it goes to sleep MUCH faster, and none of the previously constant chuckling and chirping it used to give me. The big thing is, who knows what those things might have been sending where or to who ?? All in all, I'm pleased with the results, and thought maybe some of you out there in Kolb Land might gain a benefit, too. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:08 AM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spybots --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" I use ad-aware 6.0 It's free also. Do not archive Dan Charter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Spybots > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > I realize (again) that this isn't "Kolb" related, but I think some may gain a benefit. As you all know, I've been thru a considerable pain in the nuisance with excessive spam for quite some time, and have *sorta* tamed the worst of it with a filter. A couple of months ago, Bill Husted's syndicated newspaper help line recommended using a "spybot" remover, in addition to spam filters and firewalls. Hmmm..............saved the article, but put the whole thing on the back burner. A little uneasy about it, ya know. Then, a couple of weeks ago the new issue of Consumer Reports recommended the same program that Bill Husted had. Okay, I went ahead and downloaded it, ( www.safer-networking.org ) tho' I don't generally trust freeware - and this IS free. You'll get a choice of places to download it from. (I used c/net) That program found and removed 217 (I counted 'em) spybots, yet still left the needed cookies in place. All my favorites still work - tho' to be safe I did bac! > k them up before starting. Big deal, eh ?? Well, in the last couple of weeks I've noticed that start-up and shut down of my computer is faster. When not in use, it goes to sleep MUCH faster, and none of the previously constant chuckling and chirping it used to give me. The big thing is, who knows what those things might have been sending where or to who ?? All in all, I'm pleased with the results, and thought maybe some of you out there in Kolb Land might gain a benefit, too. Lar. Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Building Kolb Mk III > N78LB Vamoose > www.gogittum.com > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:50 AM PST US From: William George Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rusty building again, comparing engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: William George Two points to consider when comparing the Jabiru with other engines: Direct drive means a small prop to avoid tip speeds that are too high. A small prop on a pusher means that more (all?) of the prop disk is operating in dirty air. There also are cooling issues with the pusher configuration. That's why I chose the Verner over the Jab. do not archive Bill George Hawaii Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:23 AM PST US From: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Welcome back Rusty! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Hi Dan, I'm glad to be back. It's funny, I've had this Airbike project ready to start for months, and just can't get interested in building it. Now that I finally decided to build another SS, I can't wait till it gets here. John's right about the SS flying qualities of course. I flew the Mk-III at the factory with Dan, and think the SS flies better, though with the same Kolb qualities. It's plenty forgiving, so don't let it intimidate you. 4 years!!! Will it help if I start taunting you :-) Let's see, how many Slingshots can I build in the time it takes Dan to build one :-) Cheers, Rusty (just trying to help Dan) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:21 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: making your own parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com In a message dated 8/20/2004 10:16:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, dpaule@frii.com writes: > www.emachineshop.com > Thanks, Looks like a cool place to have an instrument panel built, steve b do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:49 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: making your own parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com In a message dated 8/20/2004 10:16:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, dpaule@frii.com writes: > www.f-boat.com and emachineshop Just got done downloading the cad software and did the first audio lesson. This thing is really cool. This is a must have for anyone that does not have any cad software. The audio lesson is very good. Thanks again Steve B do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: free mags From: "Joseph Brett Walmsley" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joseph Brett Walmsley" I would love to have them. If you let me know how much teh UPS or USPS is (slow boat). I will gladly send a check. Brett Walmsley 65 Woodmoor Dr. Newnan, GA 30263 770-254-9467 brettandsandy@numail.org Thanks > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." > > I'm putting this on the Kolb list first. > > Due to some pressure, mainly from The War Department, and the Grim > Reaper, I want to get rid/giveaway a large pile of Ultralight Flying! > mags, dating from late '95 to early '03. Pile is maybe two feet high, > weight unknown. I'll give them to anyone, free (as in a Free Gift) if > the recipient pays the freight/UPS. In fact, I'll send first and wait > for the UPS repayment. I surely dislike just taking them to the dump. > > Lemme know. If no offers, I'll go to FLY-UL. > > Bob N. > > http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:10 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Kolbers, It will be interesting to see what Woody's fuel burn will be on cross countries compared to those with Rotax engines. I'm also interested in knowing why John W. went to the 912 ULS . I find it interesting that he had a 58 inch 2 blade warpdrive on his Jabby while I have a 60 inch 2 blade warpdrive on my 447 SC Rotax. I wish I could find the article again as it seems like warpdrive had issued a warning on using their props on direct drive engines. I think Woody has a specially carved wood prop on his Jabby. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:57 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Snuffy/Gang: I don't know if you have seen Woody's "special" airfoil or not, but it certainly is not a Kolb wing and will produce results that shouldn't be compared to a standard Kolb wing. I think it is pretty obvious why John W went from a Jabiru to 912ULS, he wanted to out climb and out run me and my old MKIII. And that.............he certainly can do now. :-) Fuel burn on my airplane with 912 was: 5,000 rpm = 4.0 gph 5,200 rpm = 4.25 gph 5,400 rpm = 4.5 gph The above tests were conducted over many hours of cross country flights. I flew from Titus, Alabama, to OSH and returned at 5,400 rpm. This was 10 days after I returned from my 1994 flight around the US and up to Deadhorse, AK. Most of the 1994 flight was made at 5,200 rpm. The 912ULS results after 890.5 hours: 5,000 rpm = 5.0 gph 5,200 rpm = 5.2 to 5.3 gph These results, for the 912 were with a 70" 3 blade Warp Drive fast taper prop. For the 912ULS was with a 72" 3 blade Warp Drive fast taper prop. john h ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:38 PM PST US From: "Dallas Shepherd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dallas Shepherd" Woody has the 2200 Jabiru that I sold him when I crashed my Mark 111. Warp Drive and The Jabiru company both advised not using the Warp Drive prop and I had ordered a Sinsinech prop and had it in the hanger when I crashed. Never got it on the plane. I was getting 3.2 gallons on cross countries with a 58-44 prop. Woody has that now. Told him not to use it with the jaby. The best top speed I could get with this combo was 85 mph according to my garmin 90. Cruise about 75. I was looking for better results with the wood prop. Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Arkansas P.S. Pete Krotje was good enough to let me return the wood prop being as I didn't have a plane to put it on. Bless his heart. -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Kolbers, It will be interesting to see what Woody's fuel burn will be on cross countries compared to those with Rotax engines. I'm also interested in knowing why John W. went to the 912 ULS . I find it interesting that he had a 58 inch 2 blade warpdrive on his Jabby while I have a 60 inch 2 blade warpdrive on my 447 SC Rotax. I wish I could find the article again as it seems like warpdrive had issued a warning on using their props on direct drive engines. I think Woody has a specially carved wood prop on his Jabby. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:23 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: one for the home team --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com I will do more testing in the morning and get all my specifics accurately recorded before I start telling anyone things that are not correct because I dont want a collection of props to hang on the shop wall at the prices of them Maine, Kolb Firestar Pilot Ellery Batchelder Jr. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:16 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spybots --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Thanks Dan..........an off List reply strongly suggested using both programs, since each can detect problems the other can't. Gonna look into that, you bet. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spybots > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > I use ad-aware 6.0 It's free also. Do not archive > Dan Charter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bourne" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Spybots > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > > > I realize (again) that this isn't "Kolb" related, but I think some may > gain a benefit. As you all know, I've been thru a considerable pain in the > nuisance with excessive spam for quite some time, and have *sorta* tamed the > worst of it with a filter. A couple of months ago, Bill Husted's ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:30 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" Rusty, The HKS is overrated in hp & I believe would be unsuitable for SS. The single rotor rotary would probably be almost the weight of a twin as it would need a massive flywheel. My buddy who attempted your very idea hit a brick wall with that project. I too would love to have a rotary, all the auto versions are just too heavy. Looking for my redrive to arrive this weekend. I sure am excited to hear you are building a SlingShot! You sure did good on your first one. Richard Swiderski -----Original Message----- (snip)...The engine choice is undecided, aside from not planning to use a 2-stroke. The current thoughts are the HKS, 912ULS (John Hauck's personal favorite), or perhaps a single rotor Mazda concoction (trying hard to resist). Plenty of time to decide. Cheers, Rusty (new builder again) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:01 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > Fuel burn on my airplane with 912 was: > > 5,000 rpm = 4.0 gph > 5,200 rpm = 4.25 gph > 5,400 rpm = 4.5 gph John, What speed does each of the above for the 912 and below for 912 ULS yield. Yes I'm aware of Woody's wing mods. > > The 912ULS results after 890.5 hours: > > 5,000 rpm = 5.0 gph > 5,200 rpm = 5.2 to 5.3 gph Dallas, Is the 3.2 gal/hr fuel burn at 75 mph cruise? Thanks guys! Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:22 PM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: one for the home team --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" You need only one good adjustable prop. I use an Ivo 62" 2 blade. It used to be a 3 blade but IMHO a 3 blade is too much weight for my 377. Do not archive Dan Charter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: one for the home team > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com > > I will do more testing in the morning and get all my specifics accurately > recorded before I start telling anyone things that are not correct because I > dont want a collection of props to hang on the shop wall at the prices of them > > Maine, > Kolb Firestar Pilot > Ellery > Batchelder Jr. > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:00 PM PST US From: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice --> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> The single rotor rotary would probably be almost the weight of a twin as it would need a massive flywheel. --------------------------- It certainly has a power to weight disadvantage if you use the stock parts as they are, but there's hope. I can name a few that are running now, and the best hope is being built by a guy named Richard Sohn. He says his engine is the same weight as a 912, but with more than 100 HP. I'm betting he'll be bringing it to Shady Bend (about 15 miles NE of cross city) at the end of October for Tracy Crooks fly-in. I plan to be there in the rotary RV-3. Thanks once again for the kind comments about my old SS. I'm really looking forward to putting together another one. I'm really trying to force myself to go with the 912ULS, so there will be no further wish for more performance. You can help by saying things like "the 912S is just too much power for a SS" :-) Cheers, Rusty (it'll still be tame by rotary RV-3 standards) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:59 PM PST US From: "Beauford" Subject: Kolb-List: Progress? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" Kolbers... Have been following the great thread on the relative merits of the J-boo v.s. the Rotax 912/914 with interest... The performance of one as opposed to the other in climb, gas consumption, the critical nature of various props, cruise speeds , etc... Listening to the discussions about the performance numbers for these high tech wonders, I was overtaken, and then struck, by a random thought... (when one thinks slowly, it is normal to have lots of things overtake one... some of them are going pretty fast...). In 1946, some enterprising folks in Ohio marketed a modest little airplane called the Aeronca model 7AC which, on a mere 65 horsepower, carried a full fuel load (3.0 hours), two normal sized adults, and forty pounds of baggage at 80 mph cruise, turning a paltry 2150 rpm with the standard wooden cruise prop. Wide open it would do about 90 and it burned 4 gallons an hour. The little Continental C-65 would give you an honest 1000 hours between majors, and 1200 if you took real good care of it... An average mechanic could do a major overhaul on one in a day and a half and you didn't have to take out a second mortgage to pay for it... The Champ would lurch off the turf in a tad over 400 feet and, although a little anemic in climb, had a service ceiling of about 12,000 or so... It was honest, tough, and fun to fly...Had a huge slide-back window on the left where you could hang your head out and yell obscenities at buzzards.... It stalled at well under 40 mph, and students could slam it onto the ground on the long-travel oleo gear without bending anything... Required little beyond the most rudimentary maintenance.... The performance numbers I hear for Kolbs with the J-boo and Rotax sound vaguely similar, but would appear to be obtained with a lot more fuss and relative investment....and seemingly much more complex technology... Kinda makes ya wonder how far have we come in 58 years..... really...... (?) just a thought... I'm gonna fly the FireFly early tomorrow... if the senior armadillo who lives under the trailer will suffer me to approach it...and if the rotax 447 god will permit combustion... and if I can taxi through all the waist-high weeds fast enough to break through to the runway.... I'll try not to do any further thinking while I am flying... It's back to sleep now.... random thinking is tiring to a geezer... Beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:27 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hurricane Charley Guilt Report --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" >Richard, You may want to rename your magic circus tent the Tabernacle, no doubt that somewhere in your tent lays the lost Ark of the Covenant! Denny Rowe Do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:53 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Rusty, Glad to see you back on the list. I will try to help your dilemma some on engine choices. Last year a fellow in Georgia, John Russell, was selling his slingshot with a 912S. For some reason it wasn't selling even though the price seemed very reasonable and the plane was a work of art. He wound up parting the plane and engine out and sold the plane to a fellow in Canada and I bought the 912S, EIS, warp prop, and accessories for my MK III project I purchased from Jeremy Casey. John had originally installed a 582 on the Slingshot and then later sold it for the 912S. During the process of removing the engine our conversation naturally revolved around flying and engines etc. John made the statement that the Slingshot was more fun to fly with the 582 because of the lighter weight. I think he was referring to flying around the pea patch and not cross country when he made this statement. I think you said earlier you were looking for a fun plane to fly local with and I thought I would share this with you and add to the confusion. Later, John Cooley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RD Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice --> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> The single rotor rotary would probably be almost the weight of a twin as it would need a massive flywheel. --------------------------- It certainly has a power to weight disadvantage if you use the stock parts as they are, but there's hope. I can name a few that are running now, and the best hope is being built by a guy named Richard Sohn. He says his engine is the same weight as a 912, but with more than 100 HP. I'm betting he'll be bringing it to Shady Bend (about 15 miles NE of cross city) at the end of October for Tracy Crooks fly-in. I plan to be there in the rotary RV-3. Thanks once again for the kind comments about my old SS. I'm really looking forward to putting together another one. I'm really trying to force myself to go with the 912ULS, so there will be no further wish for more performance. You can help by saying things like "the 912S is just too much power for a SS" :-) Cheers, Rusty (it'll still be tame by rotary RV-3 standards) ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:23 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Progress? --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Beauford, ya took the words right outa my mouth, but didn't want to say for fear of enhancing a wiseass rep. A 7AC or an 11AC with a slightly modified 0-200 (replace the accessory plate with a dash 8...no starter, gen. or bat., call it a C-90 legal mill) and it will do an easy 100 mph cruise, stall at 40 and take the bumps of the harshest cowpastures without bending. Not bad for a 58 year old airplane. -BB do not archive On 21, Aug 2004, at 10:42 PM, Beauford wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" > > Kolbers... > > Have been following the great thread on the relative merits of the > J-boo v.s. the Rotax 912/914 with interest... The performance of one > as opposed to the other in climb, gas consumption, the critical nature > of various props, cruise speeds , etc... > > Listening to the discussions about the performance numbers for these > high tech wonders, I was overtaken, and then struck, by a random > thought... (when one thinks slowly, it is normal to have lots of > things overtake one... some of them are going pretty fast...). > > In 1946, some enterprising folks in Ohio marketed a modest little > airplane called the Aeronca model 7AC which, on a mere 65 horsepower, > carried a full fuel load (3.0 hours), two normal sized adults, and > forty pounds of baggage at 80 mph cruise, turning a paltry 2150 rpm > with the standard wooden cruise prop. Wide open it would do about 90 > and it burned 4 gallons an hour. The little Continental C-65 would > give you an honest 1000 hours between majors, and 1200 if you took > real good care of it... An average mechanic could do a major overhaul > on one in a day and a half and you didn't have to take out a second > mortgage to pay for it... The Champ would lurch off the turf in a tad > over 400 feet and, although a little anemic in climb, had a service > ceiling of about 12,000 or so... It was honest, tough, and fun to > fly...Had a huge slide-back window on the left where you could hang > your head out and yell obscenities at buzzards.... It stalled at well > under 40 mph, and students cou! > ld slam it onto the ground on the long-travel oleo gear without > bending anything... Required little beyond the most rudimentary > maintenance.... > > The performance numbers I hear for Kolbs with the J-boo and Rotax > sound vaguely similar, but would appear to be obtained with a lot more > fuss and relative investment....and seemingly much more complex > technology... Kinda makes ya wonder how far have we come in 58 > years..... really...... (?) just a thought... > > I'm gonna fly the FireFly early tomorrow... if the senior armadillo > who lives under the trailer will suffer me to approach it...and if the > rotax 447 god will permit combustion... and if I can taxi through all > the waist-high weeds fast enough to break through to the runway.... > I'll try not to do any further thinking while I am flying... > > It's back to sleep now.... random thinking is tiring to a geezer... > > Beauford > FF-076 > Brandon, FL > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:56 PM PST US From: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot repeat offender / engine choice --> Kolb-List message posted by: "RD" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Glad to see you back on the list. I will try to help your dilemma some on engine choices. ---------------- Thanks, but in what way do you figure this is helping :-) Repeat after me- "Don't get that 912S, it's just tooooo much power for a SS" :-) Seriously, I know the resale is bad on this type of plane, but hopefully, sport pilot will improve the situation a bit. One of the main reasons for considering the 912ULS is that it can power a wide range of very nice, sport pilot compatible planes. For now, it would be a hotrod in a SS, but later could be a modest engine in a true two place plane. The expense of the engine would pretty much force me to consider it a lifetime investment, which is about how long I'll be paying for it :-) Cheers, Rusty (don't let me sell this one) ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:53 PM PST US From: "garvelink" Subject: Kolb-List: to kolb list re: thrust calculator --> Kolb-List message posted by: "garvelink" All this talk about engines and thrust made me remember the free software that I downloaded from the below link. Apart from my ultrastar I fly electric radiocontroled aircraft. Barry has made available this thrust calculator that not only does small engines but also large ones. I think you may be interested in it. Steve Garvelink Barry's Radio control aircraft model aircraft page http://www.bmaps.net/ this will take you to the download page for the thrust HP software download. http://www.bmaps.net/software/goodies.html ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:31 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabbyroo --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 8/21/2004 6:51:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: For the 912ULS was with a 72" 3 blade Warp Drive fast taper prop. John, what gearbox ratio do you have on the 912ULS? Have been unable to determine if there is more than one ratio available. Do you think your setup would work on a Mk III with floats? We are looking primarily for best take-off performance. Howard Shackleford FS II SC