---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/26/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:44 AM - Re: Wing Fold Tube (robert bean) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Airworthiness inspection (robert bean) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: Bookbinding tape gap seal (Thom Riddle) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: Wing Fold Tube (Christopher Armstrong) 5. 08:10 AM - Re: Firefly (David Paule) 6. 08:14 AM - kolb oil lines (boyd young) 7. 01:56 PM - inspection (Mike Pierzina) 8. 05:17 PM - Fuel transfer (ray anderson) 9. 05:46 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (robert bean) 10. 05:53 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (jerb) 11. 05:57 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (Jack & Louise Hart) 12. 06:56 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (kfackler) 13. 09:13 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (Dan Charter) 14. 09:40 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:25 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Fold Tube --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean If riveting a new support tube in isn't feasable, try making an intermediate tube for in between that has a little offset in it. -BB do not archive On 26, Aug 2004, at 12:59 AM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > > Guys, > > County Engineers around here have done a real good job of > designing lots of washboards for our many unimproved roads. These > raise havoc with trailered Kolbs. I have supported the wings a number > of ways, but it did happen - the wing fold tube coming out of the boom > tube broke. I had it welded by a real good welder and we matched the > break points and put it back together exactly as it broke, hoping > everything would match up. It doesn't. Though everything looks the > same, the tube now seems to be about 1/2 inch too far forward. I've > pried, cussed, pushed, etc, and was finally able to match the wing > tube to the boom tube by removing one rivet and really pushing forward > on the wing. This ain't a good way to go. Any ideas???? > > AzDave > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:43 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness inspection --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean On 26, Aug 2004, at 12:07 AM, Guy and Jodi Swenson wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy and Jodi Swenson" > > > Mike, > I hope you didn't take you paperwork directly to the FAA! Your better > off > with a DAR that will charge a few bucks to do the inspection >> > I had an excellent experience with the FAA, real pleasant and > reasonable guy. Maybe he cut me some extra slack because I have an A&P , but he did look it over well and found four small discrepancies that he never even looked at later. -Besides, the froogal Bean was happily not charged a cent. -BB MkIII, waiting for this lousy Alabama weather that Mr Hauck sent me to pass through do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:26 AM PST US From: "Thom Riddle" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bookbinding tape gap seal --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" Office Depot has the same thing for $4.35. http://www.officedepot.com/txtSearchDD.do?uniqueSearchFlagtrue&searchTxtbook+tape Thom in Buffalo ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:09 AM PST US From: "Christopher Armstrong" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Wing Fold Tube --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Fold Tube since the tail wheel is not supposed to be used to support the folded airplanes weight during trailering and you need a pylon to support the tail boom you might as well have the pylon line up with the wing fold supports as well and attach the wings to it, and not use the wing fold bar in the tail boom at all. I do not even plan on installing the thing in my tail boom as I don't like the idea of putting a big hole in that part. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:29 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" Once completed, the Firefly will be a MUCH different airplane than the Cessna 150. The Cessna will be better for traveling places as it's faster, carries more and can carry a friend. The Firefly will have a lot better visibility, use a considerably shorter airfield, and be a lot more fun. The two planes are intended for totally different purposes. Before making the decision, it might be a good idea to figure out what you want a plane for.... and if the answer is simply that you want to build one, that's an excellent reason all by itself. Once built, though, it will forever have certain characteristics. It'll always be a slow one-seater with great visibility and excellent short-field performance. It'll never be a fast two or four seater, not that a Cessna 150 is all that fast. Dave Paule Boulder, CO FS II Cessna 180 >> I am in the process of buying an aircraft. I have narrowed it down to the Kolb Firefly or a C-150. I am really excited about the Firefly, but am really concerned about getting discouraged in the building process and not finishing. I am not a world class metal worker or mechanic. But I have done stuff like installing a new engine in my old pickup, always fixed my own vehicles, etc. I have never done any metal work and my fabric work has been limited to ordering the little Poly Fiber kit that Aircraft Spruce and Specialty sells to get an idea on how fabric covering works. I have been to Oshkosh for the last two years and gone through their metal workshop, their fabric workshop, and their welding workshop A couple of questions for any out there who have experience building a Firefly: - What is a realistic build time for the Firefly? - What have you liked and/or disliked about the Firefly? - What was the most difficult part of the building process? Your input appreciated! Joel Etheridge<< ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:12 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: kolb oil lines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" . This is the 1st motor I've had with oil injection. I can see oil spurting into the lines exiting the pump, but the lines to the carbs never fill completly. Is this normal? are you sure the oil lines where they enter the carbs are not pluged? and the pump is putting oil in the lines only to have the airpressure in the lines push it back into the pump. boyd ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:59 PM PST US From: "Mike Pierzina" Subject: Kolb-List: inspection --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also check these CG ranges with full and no fuel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He also said not to turn in w/b with "no fuel" ?????????????????????? I said I realize I need 1/2 hr (day VFR) reserve ....But he wants Forward and aft CG's with FULL FUEL ( that just didn't make NO DAMN SENSE ) but as I was debating it...a little voice said "just shut up and get thru this.... SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't have told him I used bathroom scales but since you did, explain that there are all kinds of bathroom scales and you used the high accuracy balance beam scales. Or you calibrated the spring scales with a similar known weight just before you used them. You did it this way didn't you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I calibrated the scales by my weight...I stood on them. That was the ballpark that they were weighing anyway. I weighed 195....each of the 4 scales under the mains were around 187-189 Well, the guy has 3 planes to check out before mine.... But , yeah, I did take it to the FAA (MIDO) at Mpls International airport I'm guessin now that it was a mistake....but I called the guy that will be coming out to look at my plane , and that was what he told me to do... I'm guessin there's gonna be some "Hoops" to jump thru....crap! The easy part was building ! Gotta Fly... Thanks for the help Guys ! do not archive -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:25 PM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? Ray ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:46 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank with a long vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them are conductive a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before but I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look into it however. -BB do not archive On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > > Ray > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:02 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb First thing is try never to refuel in the Hangar - if something happens everything in that hangar and adjoining units are roasties. jerb At 05:16 PM 8/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > >As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel >from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I am >not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods are you >guys using that you think gives good grounding under those conditions, >using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the other, which of >course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > Ray > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:57 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 05:16 PM 8/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > >As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > Ray, I used a transfer pump but I got so I could not carry full five gallon cans of gas. Moved to plastic 2.5 gallon cans and I found I can pour from them directly into the tank. The trick is to ground your self to the plane before beginning the pour. I pick up the can in my left hand and take a hold of the upper cabane on the left side of the FireFly with my right hand. This grounds me to the plane and the can of gas at the same time. Then I put my right hand on the bottom of the can to begin the pour. I hope this helps. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:09 PM PST US From: "kfackler" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" I purchased a Gas Caddy from Todd Enterprises, it's a 28 gallon rolling tank with Underwriter's Lab approval. I bought the rotary pump option as well. The tank comes with a filler hose. I simply make sure that the hose spout is well in contact with the tank mouth. I fill the Gas Caddy from plastic cans that I use to bring the gas to the airport. This is done outside and using a Mr Funnel. I have a wire attached from the funnel to the pump during this. -Ken Fackler Kolb Mark II / A722KWF Rochester MI ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray anderson" Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > Ray > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:32 PM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The more I think about it, It'll be done tomorrow. Pretty cheap insurance. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank > with a long > vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them > are conductive > a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before > but > I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look into > it however. > -BB do not archive > > On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel > > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > > > > Ray > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:51 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I've been watching this thread with some interest, and a thought comes to mind........... Seems to me that static electricity is a surface phenomenom, and doesn't depend on the usual conductors, etc., such as a metal can to metal fill neck. Wouldn't it work to just put an alligator clip on each end of a fairly long wire, and clip one end to the plastic jug, and the other to the plane ?? Any charge that did form from the flowing fuel would be taken care of..................?? Static charge would take the path of least resistance - the wire - rather than the air gap. Sounds reasonable to me - as witness a spark jumping non-conductive air from a poorly conducting finger to whatever when you get a jolt from it. In another life, many decades ago, I was a carpet layer, and learned much the hard way about such things. On dry windy days, we soon learned to hold a key or a knife in our hand and touch a doorknob or whatever with it, before touching it with our hands. Spark would jump from the knife, rather than finger. Big Lar........heading north to Alaska tomorrow for 4 glorious weeks . John, I might just hit Hyder again. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The more > I think about it, It'll be done tomorrow. Pretty cheap insurance. Do not > archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert bean" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > > > Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank > > with a long > > vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them > > are conductive > > a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before > > but > > I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look into > > it however. > > -BB do not archive > > > > On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > > > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel > > > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > > > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > > > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > > > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > > > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >