---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/27/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:16 AM - Fuel transfer (ray anderson) 2. 06:45 AM - (Kelvin Kurkowski) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: (Edward Chmielewski) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 5. 08:06 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Larry Bourne) 6. 08:36 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (ul15rhb@juno.com) 7. 12:00 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (James, Ken) 8. 02:02 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (Dan Charter) 9. 02:42 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (Kirk Smith) 10. 03:43 PM - kolb chat (Paul Petty) 11. 04:16 PM - Re: (Beauford) 12. 05:56 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (bryan green) 13. 07:19 PM - Re: wings (woody) 14. 07:46 PM - Re: Fuel transfer (garvelink) 15. 07:53 PM - Re: Test/New Address (richard swiderski) 16. 08:15 PM - Re: kolb chat (Denny Rowe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:29 AM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Thanks guys. Some good advise and information there. I've gotten by for a long time with the common plastic to plastic pouring, but there have been some reports of tragic happenings with this , particularly with lawnmowers, and even occasionally a boat incident. I've just suddenly gotten it on my mind. Forums like this are worth their weight in gold, so to speak. Or a life. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:33 AM PST US From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Kolb-List: (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) 1.16 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" > >The Lord has a way of revealing those of us who really know him, and those > >that don't! Think about it! Kerry gave a big speech last week about how > >his faith is so "important" to him. In this attempt to convince the > >American people that we should consider him for president, he > >announced that his favorite Bible verse is John 16:3. > >Of course the speech writer meant John 3:16, but nobody in the Kerry camp > >was familiar enough with scripture to catch the error. And do you know > >what > >John 16:3 says? > > > >John 16:3 says; "They will do such things because they have not known the > >Father or me." > > > >The Spirit works in strange ways. > >Pass it on VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:25 AM PST US From: "Edward Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" Kel, Please. I don't subscribe to this list to be preached to or told how to vote. I have a wife for that! Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Kolb-List: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" > > > >The Lord has a way of revealing those of us who really know him, and > those > > >that don't! Think about it! Kerry gave a big speech last week about how > > >his faith is so "important" to him. In this attempt to convince the > > >American people that we should consider him for president, he > > >announced that his favorite Bible verse is John 16:3. > > >Of course the speech writer meant John 3:16, but nobody in the Kerry camp > > >was familiar enough with scripture to catch the error. And do you know > > >what > > >John 16:3 says? > > > > > >John 16:3 says; "They will do such things because they have not known > the > > >Father or me." > > > > > >The Spirit works in strange ways. > > >Pass it on VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!! > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:19 AM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Ok, how will you attach a ground wire to the plastic can? AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The more > I think about it, It'll be done tomorrow. Pretty cheap insurance. Do not > archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert bean" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > > > Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank > > with a long > > vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them > > are conductive > > a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before > > but > > I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look into > > it however. > > -BB do not archive > > > > On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > > > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel > > > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > > > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > > > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > > > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > > > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:03 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" One of those big alligator clips, like they use for battery terminals. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > Ok, how will you attach a ground wire to the plastic can? > AzDave > > Do Not Archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Charter" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't > > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't > > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:52 AM PST US From: "ul15rhb@juno.com" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ul15rhb@juno.com" Dave, Use a large clamp similar to a battery jumper conenctor on the handle of the gas can. Ralph -- "Dave & Eve Pelletier" wrote: Ok, how will you attach a ground wire to the plastic can? AzDave Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:57 PM PST US From: "James, Ken" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" I might think that a strip of 12 gauge wire (solid stripped) wrapping several turns around the plastic handle then running and insulated wire to a copper grounding rod firmly pushed in the ground should do the trick. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Larry Bourne [mailto:biglar@gogittum.com] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" One of those big alligator clips, like they use for battery terminals. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > Ok, how will you attach a ground wire to the plastic can? > AzDave > > Do Not Archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Charter" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't > > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't > > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:17 PM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" Copper ground rods are the length that they are for a reason. Pound the entire length in leaving only enough to attach your ground wire. Too busy to do mine today. The weather has made sure I won't need refueling till Sat. night( maybe.) Do not archive Dan Charter FS 1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James, Ken" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" > > I might think that a strip of 12 gauge wire (solid stripped) wrapping > several turns around the plastic handle then running and insulated wire to a > copper grounding rod firmly pushed in the ground should do the trick. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Bourne [mailto:biglar@gogittum.com] > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > One of those big alligator clips, like they use for battery terminals. > Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Building Kolb Mk III > N78LB Vamoose > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > > > > Ok, how will you attach a ground wire to the plastic can? > > AzDave > > > > Do Not Archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Charter" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > > > > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I > don't > > > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It > doesn't > > > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:01 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Copper ground rods are the length that they are for a reason. Pound the > entire length in leaving only enough to attach your ground wire. Should we also carry this ground rod around with us when we fly Xcountry like John H. does and pound it in the ground at every fuel stop? Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:15 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: kolb chat --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, I sure wish some of you would try the Kolb chat room sometimes it's fun and Live! Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:19 PM PST US From: "Beauford" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" Mr Kurkowski.... The fact that you have a belief system is a good thing... many people do not... IMHO, everyone ought to believe something...or another... and most of us certainly appreciate that a lot of good men have died over the years to give you the right to express your opinion across the length and breadth of our great nation... That said, the fact that you saw fit to break into this airplane enthusiast forum to inject your non-Kolb personal between-your-ears business is unfortunate... and is indicatative, at least to me, that you don't understand this list, or how poorly received your words are likely to be here... I predict that what WILL certainly be passed on here, Mr. Kurkowski, is not the political message you fervently pushed, but rather the absolutely astounding fool you made of yourself on this forum with your post, and how little most of us appreciated hearing from a zealot such as yourself in this protected group.... We do airplanes, here, Sir... Kolb airplanes. Please feel free to rejoin us when you are prepared to discuss Kolb aircraft... but I warn you, I suspect you will begin that discussion from a position of profound disadvantage... Sincerely, Beauford FF 076 Brandon, FL Do Not Archive P.S. Kurkowski.... How did you get our number? b. Show us the courtesy of ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" Subject: Kolb-List: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" > > >> >The Lord has a way of revealing those of us who really know him, and > those >> >that don't! Think about it! Kerry gave a big speech last week about >> >how >> >his faith is so "important" to him. In this attempt to convince the >> >American people that we should consider him for president, he >> >announced that his favorite Bible verse is John 16:3. >> >Of course the speech writer meant John 3:16, but nobody in the Kerry >> >camp >> >was familiar enough with scripture to catch the error. And do you know >> >what >> >John 16:3 says? >> > >> >John 16:3 says; "They will do such things because they have not known > the >> >Father or me." >> > >> >The Spirit works in strange ways. >> >Pass it on VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!! > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:44 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" You got it Lar I uhh think. The plastic acts like a big compacitor building a charge on the surface and when the charge becomes big you get ESD (electrostatic discharge). You might want to take your wire with clips and add another wire with a small 18" rod and insert it into good old mother earth. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > I've been watching this thread with some interest, and a thought comes to > mind........... Seems to me that static electricity is a surface > phenomenom, and doesn't depend on the usual conductors, etc., such as a > metal can to metal fill neck. Wouldn't it work to just put an alligator > clip on each end of a fairly long wire, and clip one end to the plastic jug, > and the other to the plane ?? Any charge that did form from the flowing > fuel would be taken care of..................?? Static charge would take > the path of least resistance - the wire - rather than the air gap. Sounds > reasonable to me - as witness a spark jumping non-conductive air from a > poorly conducting finger to whatever when you get a jolt from it. In > another life, many decades ago, I was a carpet layer, and learned much the > hard way about such things. On dry windy days, we soon learned to hold a > key or a knife in our hand and touch a doorknob or whatever with it, before > touching it with our hands. Spark would jump from the knife, rather than > finger. Big Lar........heading north to Alaska tomorrow > for 4 glorious weeks . John, I might just hit Hyder again. > Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Building Kolb Mk III > N78LB Vamoose > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Charter" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I don't > > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It doesn't > > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The > more > > I think about it, It'll be done tomorrow. Pretty cheap insurance. Do not > > archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "robert bean" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > > > > > Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank > > > with a long > > > vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them > > > are conductive > > > a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before > > > but > > > I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look into > > > it however. > > > -BB do not archive > > > > > > On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > > > > > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring fuel > > > > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > > > > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > > > > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > > > > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > > > > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:27 PM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" . Just got back from vaction and was happy to hear Wayne got it up.( The S.S. ) that is. Not bad for an old timer and new honeymooner. Congrats on that too Wayne. I recieved a damaged mk 111 with almost all the ribs broken. I decided to do a whole new airfoil cause thats what experimental aviation is all about. I found it in the EAA Flying and glider manual. it was on the Dormsey flying bathtub. Same weight span and chord as a mk111 > The profile is semi symetrical with a cusp at the back. It is a bit thinner than a Kolb. I used the same incidence as on the Bathtub design. I try not to refer to my plane as a Kolb out of respect for Dennis and Homer. The Thunderbird moniker if derived from the indian art done on the bottom of the wings, tail and nose. ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: wings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" > > <<<<<<<<< > Your Thunderbird could hardly be called a MKIII, with the drastic > changes made to the wings. Will be interesting to compare performance > between your wing and a standard MKIII wing.>>>>>>>>>> > > > i am trying to remember..... it seems that someone was going to raise the leading edge of their wing.... is this the plane with this wing mod? > > boyd > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:06 PM PST US From: "garvelink" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "garvelink" This is just a thought. fuel only builds up static charge when it flows thru the hose at a great deal of volosity like filling up at a gas station. The gas stations take this into account and put wire coils in their hoses and ground the nozzle to ground throught the wire coil. I deal with 138 convience stores and have seen about 5 fires caused from static discharge. it happened about 3 summers ago when it got dry and hot people would get back in their car and then slid out and go back and touch the gas nozzle and start a fire because of the static discharge and the fumes coming out of the tank. This was at a stations that had the recovery systems in place. I am unsure of how much static builds up when you pour fuel from one contaner to the next. You would be more at risk if you slipped out of a vinal seat and touched a metal object near an open fuel tank. for safety It would probably be advisable to ground the tank with a clip and the airframe and make sure you touch the airframe to discharge your body and tank before you poor. Also keep cell phones away from the area because they can cause fires also I know this sounds strange but they label this at all gas pumps in tennessee. I dont know if this is a national thing but I believe it is because of the contact that are used for ringers . S Garvelink Kolb US ----- Original Message ----- From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > > You got it Lar I uhh think. The plastic acts like a big compacitor building > a charge on the surface and when the charge becomes big you get ESD > (electrostatic discharge). You might want to take your wire with clips and > add another wire with a small 18" rod and insert it into good old mother > earth. > Bryan Green Elgin SC > Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bourne" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > > > I've been watching this thread with some interest, and a thought comes to > > mind........... Seems to me that static electricity is a surface > > phenomenom, and doesn't depend on the usual conductors, etc., such as a > > metal can to metal fill neck. Wouldn't it work to just put an alligator > > clip on each end of a fairly long wire, and clip one end to the plastic > jug, > > and the other to the plane ?? Any charge that did form from the flowing > > fuel would be taken care of..................?? Static charge would take > > the path of least resistance - the wire - rather than the air gap. Sounds > > reasonable to me - as witness a spark jumping non-conductive air from a > > poorly conducting finger to whatever when you get a jolt from it. In > > another life, many decades ago, I was a carpet layer, and learned much the > > hard way about such things. On dry windy days, we soon learned to hold a > > key or a knife in our hand and touch a doorknob or whatever with it, > before > > touching it with our hands. Spark would jump from the knife, rather than > > finger. Big Lar........heading north to Alaska tomorrow > > for 4 glorious weeks . John, I might just hit Hyder again. > > Do not Archive. > > > > Larry Bourne > > Palm Springs, CA > > Building Kolb Mk III > > N78LB Vamoose > > www.gogittum.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Charter" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" > > > > > > There's more static charge with plastic than you would ever think. I > don't > > > ground mine but I really should. Maybe I'll get on it tomorrow. It > doesn't > > > cost much or nothing if you have the stuff lying around like I do. The > > more > > > I think about it, It'll be done tomorrow. Pretty cheap insurance. Do not > > > archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "robert bean" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > > > > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > > > > > > > Ray, a valid concern, That's what I'm using too, plastic portable tank > > > > with a long > > > > vinyl hose, into the standard 5 gal chemical tank. Since none of them > > > > are conductive > > > > a ground wire would be useless. This subject has been covered before > > > > but > > > > I don't know of any useful conclusions in the archives. I'll look > into > > > > it however. > > > > -BB do not archive > > > > > > > > On 26, Aug 2004, at 8:16 PM, ray anderson wrote: > > > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > > > > > > > > As I've gotten older, I have a nagging concern about transferring > fuel > > > > > from a plastic storage container into a plastic tank on the plane. I > > > > > am not at ease with my efforts to avoid static sparks. What methods > > > > > are you guys using that you think gives good grounding under those > > > > > conditions, using a pump transfer instead of pouring from one to the > > > > > other, which of course can also generate static sparks. Any > thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > _- > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > _- > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > _- > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:14 PM PST US From: "richard swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Test/New Address --> Kolb-List message posted by: "richard swiderski" Listers, This is testing my new dsl connection & new address. Please note if anyone wants to contact me off list my new email is rswiderski@earthlink.net Richard Swiderski Do not achive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:45 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb chat --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > Kolbers, > I sure wish some of you would try the Kolb chat room sometimes it's fun and Live! > > Paul Petty > Building Ms. Dixie > Kolbra/912UL/Warp > > > do not archive > Sorry Paul, I catch hell for the time I spend checking Kolb and Sonex list stuff now, If I got on Kolb chat I would never get anything done until after the divorce. This computer stuff is a real black hole for free time. Denny Rowe