---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/28/04: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:52 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Dan Charter) 2. 05:53 AM - Re: kolb chat (Paul Petty) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (snuffy@usol.com) 4. 06:25 AM - Re: static discharge (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Thom Riddle) 6. 07:01 AM - snuck out this morning (robert bean) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Edward Chmielewski) 8. 11:09 AM - Re: Fuel transfer (Bob N.) 9. 11:38 AM - Deep Inside Rotax Video (Jon Croke) 10. 11:40 AM - Re: snuck out this morning (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 11. 12:21 PM - Forced Landings (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 12. 01:40 PM - Re: Forced Landings (GeoR38@aol.com) 13. 02:51 PM - Mk3/912 flight test (H MITCHELL) 14. 04:02 PM - Re: Mk3/912 flight test (robert bean) 15. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: static discharge message of Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:56:38 (Jim O'Day) 16. 06:13 PM - Re: snuck out this morning (richard swiderski) 17. 06:30 PM - Re: Mk3/912 flight test (Beauford) 18. 06:34 PM - Re: snuck out this morning (Denny Rowe) 19. 06:47 PM - Re: snuck out this morning (Beauford) 20. 07:36 PM - Re: Mk3/912 flight test (H MITCHELL) 21. 08:21 PM - Re: Lar's tires (Richard Pike) 22. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Lar's tires (Bob N.) 23. 09:33 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Duncan McBride) 24. 10:40 PM - Re: Forced Landings (garvelink) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:39 AM PST US From: "Dan Charter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" Just trying to get some unsuspecting person some info. If you go thru the trouble of grounding everything that you think is right and have a fire because of it, Would really suck. I don't ground as of yet but it wouldn't be an 18" rod. They will do absolutely nothing in dry ground. Might as well just step on the wire. With a 6' rod you could most likely make to some ground moisture. It's your plane. Carry a ground rod if you want. How many people fueling have a fire extinguisher real handy along side the plane I don't. But we're supposed to. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Copper ground rods are the length that they are for a reason. Pound the > > entire length in leaving only enough to attach your ground wire. > > Should we also carry this ground rod around with us when we fly Xcountry > like John H. does and pound it in the ground at every fuel stop? Kirk > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:55 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb chat --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" No probs Denny, I understand... see I sit/stand behind one of these machines all day and for most of the time, or some of this time, I am on standby. Waiting on my next customer/employee/victim to require my attention.... yall have fun out there and be careful now ya hear! pp do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb chat > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > > > Kolbers, > > I sure wish some of you would try the Kolb chat room sometimes it's fun > and Live! > > > > Paul Petty > > Building Ms. Dixie > > Kolbra/912UL/Warp > > > > > > do not archive > > > Sorry Paul, > I catch hell for the time I spend checking Kolb and Sonex list stuff now, If > I got on Kolb chat I would never get anything done until after the divorce. > This computer stuff is a real black hole for free time. > > Denny Rowe > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:59 AM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com > trouble of grounding everything that you think is right and have a fire > because of it, Would really suck. I don't ground as of yet but it wouldn't > be an 18" rod. They will do absolutely nothing in dry ground. Might as well > just step on the wire. With a 6' rod you could most likely make to some > ground moisture. It ain't about grounds it's about a difference in potential between the fuel tank and the filling container. If you short circuit those together, no difference can exist and no spark can occur. If you want to run the short ciircuit or very low impedance path through the ground be my guest. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:33 AM PST US From: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford) Subject: Kolb-List: Re: static discharge message of Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:56:38 -0700 --> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford) A lot of the static discharge dangers lie also in our bodies accumulating a charge...witness the examples of auto fueling when the person doing the fueling slides into the car for whatever reason, then resumes fueling/replacing the nozzle. A good idea to dissipate both the human charge and the can/fill nozzle static charge is to make direct contact using your bare hand between the fueling container and the fuel tank or receiving receptacle. With the smaller 5 or 10 gallon amounts we use, this would eliminate the smaller buildups of static charges. Larger quantities would make either constant hand contact or repeated contact every few gallons desirable....that static "shock" we've all felt is what ignites the fumes....whether its from a fingertip or from a plastic can. Dry climates make things worse. Long live Willie Nelson Mike in WV do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:16 AM PST US From: "Thom Riddle" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" For those who don't get to Tennessee much, they probably don't know that cell phones cause fires ONLY in this great state.:-). I always turn off my cell phone when navigating through TN on my way to visit my daughter and friends in Atlanta. An ounce of prevention and all that. Thom in Buffalo DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:54 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Kolbers, I managed to get in two takeoffs and landings this morning. At daybreak it looked calm out the window so I went the 25 miles to the airport, gave it a quick preflight and warmup, and taxied out. The breeze was just picking up by now but was straight down the runway. After one of the local farmers drove down the edge checking on his crop I took off. Good climb out at 50 mph, sorta feels like a B-52 with the nearly level attitude. After checking out the local scenery and emergency sites I headed back over for a landing. That being uneventful, I went up again, made a couple turns and by now it was getting gusty/bumpy. Glad I have a good 3 point harness with no doors. Turning from base to final I felt like I was operating a butter churn which convinced me to call it a day. I'm sure looking forward to some nice weather, the little Kolb flies as advertised and cruises easily with the throttle pulled way back. -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:26 AM PST US From: "Edward Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" Thom/All, Good point! I understand the cell phone/fueling issue is an urban legend, but a lot of station operators buy into it nonetheless. Ed in JXN MkII/503 DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" > > For those who don't get to Tennessee much, they probably don't know that cell phones cause fires ONLY in this great state.:-). I always turn off my cell phone when navigating through TN on my way to visit my daughter and friends in Atlanta. An ounce of prevention and all that. > > Thom in Buffalo > > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:21 AM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel transfer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." Local arpt doesn't take kindly to hammering a rod of any length into their concrete. How abt clipping onto a tiedown ring, like the fuel wagon does? Ok, ok, so I don't get to fly off grass! BUTT, you could hire one of the Baghdady guards who specialize in attaching clips---owwww. Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:40 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Kolb-List: Deep Inside Rotax Video --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" This is an advertisement (Kolb related, tho!) so be warned that this will be my only posting of this matter! (as per Matt's guidelines) My little production company has just finished another film entitled 'Deep Inside your Rotax 2 Cycle Engine' We were fortunate enought to contract the services of a Rotax repair station to produce this DVD which displays and explains a 2 cycle engine disassembly and inspection. Probably has the most complete carburetor overhaul demonstration I've ever seen! The website www.HomebuiltHELP.com has all the info (lots of pictures) on this 2 hr movie and I wont talk price here, but it is quite reasonable. I am looking for feedback as soon as possible (this is HOT off the presses) and for anyone that purchases a copy and provides me with a review (email OK) before the end of next month (September) I will send a free copy of the Sun n Fun airshow 2004 DVD (with all of the Kolbs flying) that we made earlier this year. (If you already own that, then I'll just refund your original purchase price for that!) One of the many things I learned during filming of this project was the impact that MOISTURE has on the insides of the engine... I never took seriously the covering of the air filters and exhaust port while in storage.... but after witnessing the crank inspection during this disassembly... it is quite clear that you may want to give this some thought. (free pics of this on the website). I have more repsect now for those 150 hr inspections! Jon FSII ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:00 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" I assume this was you first flight. Congratulations! There is nothing like that first flight in a plane you built. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Subject: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > Kolbers, I managed to get in two takeoffs and landings this morning. > At daybreak it > looked calm out the window so I went the 25 miles to the airport, gave ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:40 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Forced Landings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Duncan asked why I retracted the flaps just before my forced landing and I never responded. My theory is that most of us normally carry some power all the way into landing. In a forced situation the no flap landing is closer to a normal flaps with power landing. Yes as we you get more proficient it might be best to all our normal landings with flaps and no power? I figure it is best to do your forced landing as close to normal as possible. Also it takes a really deft hand to rotate at the right split second to get a good landing with no power and some/full flaps. In a forced landing situation most of us are already stressed and don't need to add to it the need for such precise timing for rotation. The idea is that with no flaps you will have some float time so that you can grease it in with the tail touching just before the main gear. You do have a slightly higher landing speed but in a my forced landing situation I think I was able to slow the plane down more than I would have been able to if I had left the flaps on. Again my technique is use flaps to make the field or landing spot then retract them all the way for landing. Hey it worked for me! My $.02 worth Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:56 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 8/28/2004 3:22:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes: In a forced landing situation most of us are already stressed and don't need to add to it the need for such precise timing for rotation. The idea is that with no flaps you will have some float time so that you can grease it in with the tail touching just before the main gear. You do have a slightly higher landing speed but in a my forced landing situation I think I was able to slow the plane down more than I would have been able to if I had left the flaps on. Again my technique is use flaps to make the field or landing spot then retract them all the way for landing. Hey it worked for me! My $.02 worth Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc For a glider pilot, the same technique is used, only every time, ....to use the spoilers to drop out of the sky to where you want ot be just above the ground, then get rid of them just before actual touchdown. Flaps are a slightly less effective form of spoilers...both create turbulence and drag and cause a greater angle of declination once a stable speed is achieved. George Randolph the ol glider pilot ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:46 PM PST US From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Kolb-List: Mk3/912 flight test Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:51:19 -0400 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" 'Rolled her out just as the sun came up. OAT85 Deg., humidity ~ 85 %, dead calm, patchy ground fog, no ceiling. Previous entry in flight test log reminded me that my max rpm only of 4,800 was well below the 5,500 cruise max and that I had cranked in two more degrees of pitch. 'Love that IVO. I toped off the fuel tanks, did my check list preflight and strapped in. By this time my main wind shield had fogged up and I had to get out and clear it before start up. I had the whole airport to myself so I just taxied out, checked for local traffic and departed for the my favorite test area. Used John H's advice not to use full throttle until she lifts off. It worked perfectly. I increased the throttle to max during climb-out and she went to 1000'/min @ ~ 55 mph. I am sure she could do better but today's test objective was to record speed @ various rpm settings so I leveled off for a slow climb to 2,000' and made for the test area. At the test area I made eight runs in both directions recording rpm, IAS and GPS speed. The resulting values ranged from 60 mph @ 4400 rpm, to 80 mph @ 5410 rpm (max). Based on these results I should increase my prop pitch up ~ one Deg. and fly one more verification test. The use of my GPS in this test also verified the accuracy of the IAS/ROC static system. With the turn testing behind me and airspeed tests nearly complete I'll be looking forward to stall/glide testing next. This flight was also gave me a chance to see if she could be made to fly hands-off. At 4400 rpm using the Kolb pitch trim, the John H. rudder tab and the bungy aileron trim she would do it for a while but still needed an occasional nudge. 'Need to try it again after the prop pitch is increased. When I got back to the airport I did two touch-and-goes then landed and started on my log book entries. Post-flight inspection showed no oil or coolant leakage at the engine or on tail surfaces, prop movement detectors were tight and fuel consumption was normal. Duane the plane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL, Mk3/912, FireFly/enclosed trailer for sale ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:45 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk3/912 flight test --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Congrats on a successful first flight. Wish I'd had some of that calm air to establish some numbers too. Anyway I got to teach myself how to fly a Kolb. I think a Luscombe 8E was more intimidating. May those 40 hours burn away happily. -BB do not archive On 28, Aug 2004, at 5:51 PM, H MITCHELL wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" > > > 'Rolled her out just as the sun came up. OAT85 Deg., humidity ~ 85 %, > dead calm, patchy ground fog, no ceiling. Previous entry in flight > test log reminded me that my max rpm only of 4,800 was well below the > 5,500 cruise max and that I had cranked in two more degrees of pitch. > 'Love that IVO. I toped off the fuel tanks, did my check list > preflight and strapped in. By this time my main wind shield had fogged > up and I had to get out and clear it before start up. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:17 PM PST US From: "Jim O'Day" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: static discharge message of Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:56:38 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim O'Day" Mike is right on, the "touch" is everything. If the planes metal wheels, this would not be as much of an issue. My company sells fueling equipment and we are on a mission to get people to "start touching". Everything you ever wanted to learn about static fires and fueling seems to be here. http://www.pei.org/static/index.htm Jim do not archive > > A lot of the static discharge dangers lie also in our bodies > accumulating a charge...witness the examples of auto fueling when the > person doing the fueling slides into the car for whatever reason, then > resumes fueling/replacing the nozzle. A good idea to dissipate both the > human charge and the can/fill nozzle static charge is to make direct > contact using your bare hand between the fueling container and the fuel > tank or receiving receptacle. With the smaller 5 or 10 gallon amounts > we use, this would eliminate the smaller buildups of static charges. > Larger quantities would make either constant hand contact or repeated > contact every few gallons desirable....that static "shock" we've all > felt is what ignites the fumes....whether its from a fingertip or from a > plastic can. Dry climates make things worse. > > Long live Willie Nelson > > Mike in WV > do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:03 PM PST US From: "richard swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: "richard swiderski" Bob, Way to go! I can't wait to hear what kind of performance numbers that little Geo engine will give. ... Richard Swiderski Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Kolbers, I managed to get in two takeoffs and landings this morning. At daybreak it looked calm out the window so I went the 25 miles to the airport, gave it a quick preflight and warmup, and taxied out. The breeze was just picking up by now but was straight down the runway. After one of the local farmers drove down the edge checking on his crop I took off. Good climb out at 50 mph, sorta feels like a B-52 with the nearly level attitude. After checking out the local scenery and emergency sites I headed back over for a landing. That being uneventful, I went up again, made a couple turns and by now it was getting gusty/bumpy. Glad I have a good 3 point harness with no doors. Turning from base to final I felt like I was operating a butter churn which convinced me to call it a day. I'm sure looking forward to some nice weather, the little Kolb flies as advertised and cruises easily with the throttle pulled way back. -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:25 PM PST US From: "Beauford" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk3/912 flight test --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" Duane... Sincere congrats to you, Sir... Glad it all went well and that your machine appears to be in reusable condition after the first event... Must feel good to be operating in the wonderful world of four-strokes...! I'm looking forward to seeing it when you fly her down this way. Now if 'ol what's-his-name, out west there... can get HIS act together... we may have yet another MkIII flying... I heard the set of tires he had on it dry rotted off and he is presently waiting for new ones... and it gets worse because 'ya gotta realize that the rotten set were replacements for the original wooden wheels that Kolb was putting on 'em back when he ordered his kit... Beauford Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Kolb-List: Mk3/912 flight test > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" > > > 'Rolled her out just as the sun came up. > >> > Post-flight inspection showed no oil or coolant leakage at the engine or > on tail surfaces, prop movement detectors were tight and fuel consumption > was normal. > > Duane the plane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL,> > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:52 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Bob B wrote: > Kolbers, I managed to get in two takeoffs and landings this morning. > At daybreak it > looked calm out the window so I went the 25 miles to the airport, gave> and cruises easily with the throttle pulled way back. -BB > do not archive > > Way to go Bob! Congrats, Enjoy and fly safe, we are all looking foreward to hearing your performance numbers. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:10 PM PST US From: "Beauford" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" Good on 'ya, Bob... Well done... Congratulations...!!! Beauford Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Subject: Kolb-List: snuck out this morning > --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > Kolbers, I managed to get in two takeoffs and landings this morning. > At daybreak it > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:34 PM PST US From: "H MITCHELL" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk3/912 flight test Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:36:03 -0400 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" Beauford, It is always great to hear from you. I always read your posts and they always make me think or laugh or both. I am also looking at the Kolb gathering next month but as you well know it is a lo-o-ong ride up there. I am even thinking about flying to Cincinnati ($227) and riding down from there with Gene Ledbetter. Ideas? Are you going to make it to Sebring in Oct? 'Looks like they might be some competition to Lakeland before long. Unless I get about 30 hours on my plane in the next month or so I will still be restricted to my home area. Duane Mitchell ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:11 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Lar's tires --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike You think Beauford's joking - I bought Lar's original wheels and tires when he decided to go the tundra route - and they are dry rotted!!! Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) (planning to add tubes to his MKIII tires...) At 09:31 PM 8/28/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" > >Duane... > >Now if 'ol what's-his-name, out west there... can get HIS act together... we >may have yet another >MkIII flying... I heard the set of tires he had on it dry rotted off and >he is presently waiting for new ones... and it gets worse because 'ya gotta >realize that the rotten set were replacements for the original wooden wheels >that Kolb was putting on 'em back when he ordered his kit... > >Beauford >Do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:03 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Lar's tires --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." Sure-far remedy fer rotted tars--coupla cee-ment blocks. Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:12 PM PST US From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" The key is to make the emergency landing just like every other landing you have been making for the last few years. If you work the flaps on the approach and retract them when you have made the spot, then an emergency landing should follow the same routine. Richard's successful outcome proves this method. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Forced Landings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > Duncan asked why I retracted the flaps just before my forced landing and I never responded. > > My theory is that most of us normally carry some power all the way into landing. In a forced situation the no flap landing is closer to a normal flaps with power landing. Yes as we you get more proficient it might be best to all our normal landings with flaps and no power? I figure it is best to do your forced landing as close to normal as possible. Also it takes a really deft hand to rotate at the right split second to get a good landing with no power and some/full flaps. In a forced landing situation most of us are already stressed and don't need to add to it the need for such precise timing for rotation. The idea is that with no flaps you will have some float time so that you can grease it in with the tail touching just before the main gear. You do have a slightly higher landing speed but in a my forced landing situation I think I was able to slow the plane down more than I would have been able to if I had left the flaps on. > > Again my technique is use flaps to make the field or landing spot then retract them all the way for landing. Hey it worked for me! > > My $.02 worth > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:13 PM PST US From: "garvelink" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "garvelink" I would like to clarify something. I am a pivate pilot with about 120 hrs of time just enought to be dangerous. I recall in traning that to take your flaps off could be very dangerous close to the ground at least in a 150 or 172.. the reason being is that the plane will fly at a slower speed with flaps on and when you talk them off you could induce a stall. Steve Garvelink ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" > > The key is to make the emergency landing just like every other landing you > have been making for the last few years. If you work the flaps on the > approach and retract them when you have made the spot, then an emergency > landing should follow the same routine. Richard's successful outcome proves > this method. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Forced Landings > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > > > > Duncan asked why I retracted the flaps just before my forced landing and I > never responded. > > > > My theory is that most of us normally carry some power all the way into > landing. In a forced situation the no flap landing is closer to a normal > flaps with power landing. Yes as we you get more proficient it might be best > to all our normal landings with flaps and no power? I figure it is best to > do your forced landing as close to normal as possible. Also it takes a > really deft hand to rotate at the right split second to get a good landing > with no power and some/full flaps. In a forced landing situation most of us > are already stressed and don't need to add to it the need for such precise > timing for rotation. The idea is that with no flaps you will have some float > time so that you can grease it in with the tail touching just before the > main gear. You do have a slightly higher landing speed but in a my forced > landing situation I think I was able to slow the plane down more than I > would have been able to if I had left the flaps on. > > > > Again my technique is use flaps to make the field or landing spot then > retract them all the way for landing. Hey it worked for me! > > > > My $.02 worth > > > > Rick Neilsen > > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > > > > >