Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: Prop question (Denny Rowe)
2. 04:44 AM - Re: Forced Landings (Thom Riddle)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Forced Landings (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: Forced Landings (Jack & Louise Hart)
5. 06:46 AM - 912UL vs 912ULS for SS engine (Rusty)
6. 07:03 AM - Re: Forced Landings (John Hauck)
7. 07:32 AM - Alaska 2004, Part 1 (John Hauck)
8. 08:00 AM - Re: Alaska 2004, Part 1 (Rusty)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Forced Landings (Kirk Smith)
10. 08:25 AM - TNK Homecoming 2004 (John Williamson)
11. 08:53 AM - Homecoming 2004 (Paul Petty)
12. 09:04 AM - Alaska 2004 Part 1 (cont) (John Hauck)
13. 09:10 AM - Re: 912UL vs 912ULS for SS engine (John Hauck)
14. 09:36 AM - Re: Alaska 2004 Part 1 (cont)(correction) (John Hauck)
15. 10:06 AM - Re: Forced Landings (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
16. 10:27 AM - Re: Forced Landings (John Hauck)
17. 11:31 AM - Re: Flight test report with no testing to report (Richard Pike)
18. 01:08 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
19. 01:42 PM - Bob's off road vehicle (robert bean)
20. 02:06 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Christopher Armstrong)
21. 02:32 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Kirk Smith)
22. 02:45 PM - Re: Forced Landings (John Hauck)
23. 06:27 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Jack & Louise Hart)
24. 07:27 PM - Alaska 2004 Part II (John Hauck)
25. 07:45 PM - 582 Timing Question (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
26. 07:47 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Christopher Armstrong)
27. 07:57 PM - Re: low rpm thrust/drag (Richard Pike)
28. 08:35 PM - Alaska 2004 Part II (cont) (John Hauck)
29. 08:45 PM - Re: Forced Landings (John Hauck)
30. 10:00 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Edward Chmielewski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Prop question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
>
> Does anyone here own/use a prop called either the Hot Prop or the Kiev
Prop?
>
> -Ken Fackler
> Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
> Rochester MI
>
>
> Ken,
I do not own a Hot Prop but met a fellow in Virginia that had one on his
Rans S-12. (582 power I think)
He had replaced a three blade IVO with the three blade Kiev, said it was way
quieter and that he picked up a ton of performance.
If you want his number, I could dig it up for ya.
Denny Rowe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
My FS 377 w/ 60" prop idling at say 2500 rpm has a tip speed of 173mph rotationally
plus the forward speed of say 50 on approach. At 12 degrees(at tip) of pitch
(40" for this prop) you can be certain that the tip and the slower moving
but higher pitched portions of the prop are indeed producing thrust. Just image
this prop is simply an airfoil moving thru the air at these speeds and try to
imagine it NOT producing thrust at these angles of attack. I'll bet Jack Hart
could do the trigonometry for us or use his handy dandy prop program and tell
you how much thrust we could expect in these situation. How about it Jack?
Thom
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Hey Guys
Don't forget that those numbers you all are throwing around are engine RPMs
not prop RPMs.
It seems like I have seen some manuals in the general aviation airplanes
that referenced a higher decent rate with a wind milling prop than with it
stopped. These things are from unbiased instrumented tests.
In my case the belts came off my prop and the prop was free wheeling so it
might have had less resistance than even a stopped prop?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> My FS 377 w/ 60" prop idling at say 2500 rpm has a tip speed of 173mph
rotationally plus the forward speed of say 50 on approach. At 12 degrees(at
tip) of pitch (40" for this prop) you can be certain that the tip and the
slower moving but higher pitched portions of the prop are indeed producing
thrust. Just image this prop is simply an airfoil moving thru the air at
these speeds and try to imagine it NOT producing thrust at these angles of
attack. I'll bet Jack Hart could do the trigonometry for us or use his handy
dandy prop program and tell you how much thrust we could expect in these
situation. How about it Jack?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 07:44 AM 8/31/04 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
>My FS 377 w/ 60" prop idling at say 2500 rpm has a tip speed of 173mph
rotationally plus the forward speed of say 50 on approach. At 12 degrees(at
tip) of pitch (40" for this prop) you can be certain that the tip and the
slower moving but higher pitched portions of the prop are indeed producing
thrust. Just image this prop is simply an airfoil moving thru the air at
these speeds and try to imagine it NOT producing thrust at these angles of
attack. I'll bet Jack Hart could do the trigonometry for us or use his handy
dandy prop program and tell you how much thrust we could expect in these
situation. How about it Jack?
>
>Thom
>
Thom,
I put your numbers in the AeroDesign Propeller Selector software. Assuming
a 2.58 gear box ratio, your propeller is going to be turning 969 rpm. Under
these conditions, the program says that the propeller is developing eleven
pounds of negative thrust or drag.
If you increase propeller rotation to 1118 rpm or engine speed to 2890 rpm,
the propeller will produce zero thrust.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | 912UL vs 912ULS for SS engine |
0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Greetings,
I'm still looking into the engine choice for my latest SS project, and have
a few questions about the 912 series.
Is either engine considered "better" than the other? It seems like I read
(maybe from John H) that the 912S engine was completely redesigned based on
experience with the 912. If that's true, you would think that it would be
considered the better engine.
It looks to me like the 912 will run on 87 octane fuel, but the 912S needs
premium. Is that true? For as little as I'd burn in the SS, the cost isn't
that big of a factor. However, I plan to install a fuel tank/pump in my
truck to use for the RV-3, which runs on regular 87 octane. If both planes
used the same fuel, that would be a bonus.
Is the TBO the same on both the 912 and 912S? Seems like I read it was 1500
hours, but I can't find that on the Kodiak page.
The 912 is plenty of engine for a SS, but if the 912S is that much better,
it would probably be worth the extra money.
Thanks,
Rusty
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Assuming
| a 2.58 gear box ratio, your propeller is going to be turning 969
rpm. Under
| these conditions, the program says that the propeller is developing
eleven
| pounds of negative thrust or drag.
|
| If you increase propeller rotation to 1118 rpm or engine speed to
2890 rpm,
| the propeller will produce zero thrust.
|
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
| Jackson, MO
Morning Jack B/Thom/Gang:
Even I can understand that, plus what the airplanes tell me when I am
flying them.
Thanks for the info, Jack.
Take care,
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Alaska 2004, Part 1 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Morning Gang:
Due to the generosity of Paul Petty, I now have some room to work with
my pictures from the latest flight to Alaska. I will try and be brief
in explaining these pictures so you all can get a chance to see them.
Then..........I have to make myself sit down and start working on some
articles, and probably a slide show to go along with a little chat to
share with folks about the flight.
What better way to celebrate 20 years of ultralight flying, especially
cross country flying, than pack the old Kolb Mark III, rob the credit
union, and head out for Alaska for the third time in the same old
airplane.
Everything is loaded on board the Kolb Mark III, Miss P'fer. I am
ready to go except for putting the little Nissan under the shed:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0515.jpg
The only folks there to see me off are the cows. They like to hang
around and watch what I am doing to the airplane.
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0516.jpg
I solo'd my Kolb Ultrastar here, Summer 1984. Was my first solo in a
fixed wing aircraft:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0517.JPG
These young whipper snappers and I always play a game together when it
is time to taxi and takeoff. If I am patient, I usually win.
However, I still have to keep a wary eye out for the old and well as
the young ones. Never know what a silly bovine is going to do:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0518.JPG
Doesn't take long to fly to the Mississippi River, a stepping stone
for a flight to Denver:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0522.JPG
I fly low, especially in the plains. Therefore, I don't miss much
under my flight path, like this herd of Long Horns somewhere in
Kansas:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0525.JPG
Somewhere east of Denver, a solitary church and cemetary among endless
miles of prairie:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0527.JPG
I spent the night in Denver. Next morning found me climbing out to
the west towards Leadville, CO, highest airport in the North American
Continent. As I pass this ruggedly handsome mountain with fresh snow
in June, I am climbing through 12,000 feet to eventually level off at
13,000 feet above sea level:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0552.JPG
I was surprised when I first saw Leadville Airport, 9,927 feet above
sea level. I expected a strip hanging on the side of a ragged
mountain. I'm on left base for for 34, all 6,400 feet of it:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0557.JPG
Miss P'fer has been topped off with 100LL and waits patiently to do my
bidding. Even at nearly 10,000 feet ASL the mountains surrounding the
airfield are high and magnificent. This little airplane never
hesitated to do what needed to be done the entire 180.0 hour flight,
except when she got a couple flat tires:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0560.JPG
Weather is always a serious factor when cross country flying. I land
at a little airstrip on the Colorado/Wyoming border to wait out
thunder storms to the NW. Nothing here but the wind. Gave me a
chance to relax, catch up on my log books, and sort things out in my
head for the next leg of the flight:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0571.JPG
We get a chance to see things ordinary people do not get to see, like
this huge open pit strip mine east of Rock Springs, Wyoming. Check
out the size of the front end loader and the Cat to the rear of the
shovel. The Cat is probably a D10, D11, or a D12:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0576.JPG
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alaska 2004, Part 1 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
This is just Awesome John! Now I'm hanging on the edge of my seat for the
next part :-)
Cheers,
Rusty (thanks for the speedier pics Paul)
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Jack,
How many pounds of drag does a stopped prop and also a freewheeling prop
produce at the speed used in this formula? Kirk
". Under
> these conditions, the program says that the propeller is developing eleven
> pounds of negative thrust or drag. "
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | TNK Homecoming 2004 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Hello Fellow Kolbers,
The 2004 Kolb Homecoming (Fly-In) is just 24 days away.
Basic information is on TNK website. http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/
I talked to Travis this morning about the schedule and the only thing firm
now is that the hands on seminar by Jim and Dondi Miller will be on Saturday
and that they will have dinners on Friday and Saturday. If you have been to
one of the gatherings in the past, you know how much fun it is. If you
haven't been to one, you need to be at this one.
We have several pilots and planes that are joining up to fly into Chesnut
Knolls Airpark on the 24th. If there is anyone else that would like to join
our gaggle, Please Do. Our initial group will depart Wetumpka, AL (08A) 24
Sep, hopefully by 0800 hours. We have planned starts at Rome, GA (RMG) and
Rockwood, TN (RKW). If you can join up with us at one of the stops that
would also be great.
As the date gets closer, we will publish some times that we expect to be at
the refuel stops so you can join in.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 637 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
Zenith CH701 Project
http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane
do not archive
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
Well Kolbers it looks like I will be coming to the gathering. Travis phoned me
this morning and wants me to bring my fuselage so they can custom make me a door
that will fit. Also going to take the .250 wall thickness lift struts and trade
them in for the older (lighter) ones. This is perfect timing for me because
we are not that far away from covering so I also plan to bring a few parts
along to learn with.
Looking forward to it and hope many of you can come.
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Alaska 2004 Part 1 (cont) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Everybody:
I screwed up. Inadvertently hit the dad gummed send key again, and
fired off the first part of this post.
Last pic was of the big shovel at the coal mine east of Rock Springs,
WY. I landed at the local airport, probably a WWII Army Airbase. Got
me some fuel, ate an MRE for lack of anything better, and started
making preparations for bedding down for the night. Was promtly told
I could not sleep in a hanger, in the FBO, or under the wing of my
airplane. In fact, I could not stay on the airport after 2300 hours.
Had something to do with Homeland Security and a teenie weenie airline
twin that was going to be parked on the ramp all night. OK, so now it
is getting very close to O'dark thirty. What to do? Young man tells
me there are motels in town. I told him that was not in my budget.
Got back in the MKIII and headed for Fort Bridger, some 65 miles west
on the Utah border. Once I got in the air and settled down I checked
nearest airports and came up with Green River Galactic Airport, only
20+ miles west. Oh boy, I can get in there before dark. Turns out
this is a 5,800 ft gravel strip on top of a mesa. Nothing there but
gravel. This pic was taken the morning after a good night's sleep on
the strip. No one for miles around. Certainly no air traffic during
the night or the next morning. A couple guys from the town of Rock
Springs Utility Department dropped by to say hi. Gave me a ride to
town to get some hot coffee. Always good folks around:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0577.JPG
The dessert is green. Signs of recent heavy rains in a normally very
dry area. I spent the first three days of the flight dodging
thunderstorms and rain showers. We are heading north from Rock
Springs, WY, to Big Piney, WY:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0584.JPG
Same leg:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0589.JPG
That's Big Piney Airport out there. One of my good buddies from Jump
School, Fort Campbell, Kentucky, 1958, used to live here.
Unfortunately, he died several years ago before I could make contact
with him:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0590.JPG
We climb out of Big Piney, WY, heading for Rigby, Idaho. Those big
snow capped mountains out there to the NW have gotten to be climbed in
order to get there. Miss P'fer gladly accepts the challenge. The
spots on the pictures are bugs bodies after impact with the Lexan:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0591.JPG
Beautiful country! We have been climbing since we departed Big Piney.
We still have to top 10,000 feet to get through this valley and over
the Continental Divide:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0597.JPG
Climbing through 9,400 feet, the flight path follows the valley with a
turn to the right and then over the top:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0601.JPG
We make the altitude to get over the top only to find the Rockies go
on forever. We have a beautiful country:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0605.JPG
Alpine Lake, WY. Notice the old road running into the lake prior to
the completion of the dam. This is the headwaters of the South Fork
of the Snake River:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0611.JPG
I think this is a cut throat. My buddy and I spent two days fishing
the Snake River:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0622.JPG
My buddy, Bob Marler, fishing the Snake River. Last time I saw Bob
was 40 years ago in Officer Candidate School, Fort Benning, Georgia.
Neither of us had changed a bit over those short 40 years:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0624.JPG
Another fisherman on the Snake River:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0630.JPG
After a couple days in Rigby, ID, it is time to continue on to Alaska.
Looking south over the South Fork of the Snake River, on the way to
the west side of the Grand Tetons:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0706.JPG
That's the little town of Driggs, ID, between me and the Grand Tetons:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0709.JPG
These mountains have always been some of my favorites because they
look like mountains should look. You will notice reflections from
inside the doors and windshield of the MKIII, along with the usual bug
spatters and rain, reproduced on my pictures. I used to worry about
those factors, but now I accept them as what I "truely" saw on my
trip:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0715.JPG
More of the same:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0722.JPG
Lakes are still frozen up here, about 11,000 feet ASL:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0728.JPG
That's Lake Jackson over on the east side of the Grand Tetons and
Jackson Hole, WY:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0729.JPG
No place for an engine failure:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0736.JPG
West of Yellowstone National Park is a 4,000 ft emergency airstrip,
Henrys Lake. Had to make an emergency landing here. Thank goodness
there was an outhouse and lots of toilet paper readily available:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0739.JPG
Flying west along the Continental Divide, Upper Red Rock Lake,
Montana. Had a ball low leveling through this long valley. Saw lots
of eagles and ducks. The eagles were there to dine on the ducks in
the Red Rock River. When I landed at Salmon, Idaho, I discovered I
had flown right through a bird preserve. Do you think the Feds are
still looking for me?
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0746.JPG
Had to take a quick break at the 7,000 ft airstrip at Dell, ID. This
new asphalt strip is on an old WWII Army Airfield. There were two
sets of these remote controlled security cameras on each side the
parking apron:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0753.JPG
Also a big Gulf Stream sitting there with a cowboy in a 4WD pickup
parked just to the rear of it. Asked him is this was Turner country.
He just grunted. Never would answer any questions about Ted Turner,
the Gulf Stream, or the price of rice in China:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0754.JPG
Landed at Hamilton, Montana, with a healthy appetite. Found an
airport cafe. Was 10 minutes late. They closed at 1400 and it was
1410. They were not concerned that I was hungry, had flown all the
way from Alabama in a dinky little homebuilt. They told me they had
just opened the cafe a few days ealier. I wished them good luck, got
back in Miss P'fer and continued flying toward Whitefish, MT:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0786.JPG
Polson Airport, MT. This picture does not do this airport justice.
It was a beautiful sight:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0786.JPG
This is Valkarie, Tom and Betty Kuffle's dog. She, along with Tom and
Betty, crashed in Lost Trail Pass, ID, last April. She is laying next
to Tom's bed at the Kuffle residence in Whitefish:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0792.jpg
Val is taking good care of Tom and Betty. They were terrific hosts
during my visit, despite recovering from serious injuries as the
result of the crash of the Prospector:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0794.JPG
Glacier Park International Airport and the environment Miss P'fer
operated in. We were waiting to take the active for departure to
Eureka, MT, and then over the border and into Cranbrook, British
Columbia:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0794.JPG
Looking north of Whitefish and the pass that leads to Glacier National
Park and the Highway to the Sun. Again, weather is always a serious
factor when flying cross country:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0799.JPG
Times a wasting and I got chores to do. Soon as I get a minute I'll
continue with the flight to Alaska. Next installment is the leg to
Canada.
Take care,
john h
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL vs 912ULS for SS engine |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Rusty/All:
Both engines are good engines. The 912ULS is a redesigned, updated,
huskier engine from the cases up. Both engines would be good engines
for installation on a SS. The major advantages of the 912 over the
912ULS is:
912 uses 87 oct fuel.
912ULS uses minimum of 91 oct.
912 spark plug life is 200 hrs.
912ULS is 100 hrs.
My 912 burned 4 gph at 5,000 rpm cruise.
My 912ULS burns 5 gph 5,000 rpm cruise.
The 912 will be cheaper to operate.
Got to pay for those extra horses for the 912ULS.
john h
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Alaska 2004 Part 1 (cont)(correction) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Folks:
Duplicated a pic on the last post:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0788.JPG
The above is Polson Airport, MT.
john h
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Guy,
After I completed my BFI training, I told myself that I wouldn't take up
a passenger until I had done at least six dead stick (power off) landings,
which I did. Each time, I landed hard but not hard enough to bend the gear.
(I do that regularly with power.) It sure seems to me that there is a lot
less thrust than with the engine idling.
Back in Feb when I "landed long on a short runway," (which also had a
downhill slope) besides a severe case of dumbness on my part, my problem was
floating, floating, floating. Afterwards, a very experienced pilot asked me
what my idling rpm was - I answered about 2000 rmp. Then she asked what my
full power rpm was - I answered about 6500 rpm. She then asked if I
realized that since idling is about 1/3 of the full power rpm, would it be
fair to assume that at idle rpm, I am still generating 1/3 of full power
thrust? Her point being that when I saw that I was floating, I could have
shut down the engine and further reduced thrust to get down a bit faster.
Interesting point. But it would seem to me that whether or not this is a
good idea, the fact seems to be that an idling engine is still generating
some thrust.
My two cents worth.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy and Jodi Swenson" <guyandjodi@bvillemn.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy and Jodi Swenson"
<guyandjodi@bvillemn.net>
>
Then I nervously shut off the motor. WOW!
> Apparently the idling prop is providing allot more thrust than originally
> thought. I couldn't believe how fast it lost airspeed, it took a hell of a
> lot of down elevator to get back to and hold 60 mph.
> I think it's important that everyone find out how their individual Kolb
> reacts to a power out situation. Some people are more receptive to doing
an
> actual dead stick than others, but I would certainly approach engine outs
> with caution until you know for sure how your bird will react. All Kolbs
are
> not created equally, single seat, two seat, side by side, tandem, with or
> without a passenger, all of these factors can have a dramatic affect on
how
> your light weight Kolb will react.
>
> I'm not trying to re-open a controversial subject, I just thought I would
> share my experiance and my opinion.
>
> Guy S.
> MK III Xtra
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > The glide was only a little steeper than at idle, but the silence was
> > a bit shocking for a none glider pilot used to the confidence
> > inspiring Rotax hum.
> >
> > | Thom in Buffalo
> >
> > Thom/All:
> >
> > Seems your airplane flies differently than most of the Kolbs I have
> > flown dead stick. Normally, glide is greatly increased with dead
> > stick over gliding with engine and prop turning at idle rpm.
> >
> > Doesn't the idling prop act similar to a very large disc being pulled
> > through the air? acting like a big air brake?
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > john h
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
had a
| downhill slope) besides a severe case of dumbness on my part, my
problem was
| floating, floating, floating. | AzDave
Hi Arizona Dave/All:
One way to stop the aircraft from floating is push the stick forward
until the mains contact the ground. Then apply brakes.
john h
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flight test report with no testing to report |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
That was thoughtful.
Our church is sort of a "country" church, up until two years ago we had no
air conditioning, and we are about two miles inside the Outer Marker on the
ILS at TRI. We put in air conditioning as much to hush the jets as to cool
the ladies. Also made the sermons shorter, the preacher doesn't need to
stop now and wait every time someone shoots an approach...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:13 PM 8/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd@msn.com>
>
>Lifted off Sunday at ~ 0700 and headed away from the airport for a pure
>joyride. Toured over the local tomato farms to see where they are
>installing miles of black poly sheeting for the fall crop. Passed over a
>country church with a full parking lot. Throttled back to lower my engine
>noise and glided for a while to avoid annoying the congregation. Yes Rev.
>Pike I know I should have been in the church, not over it. Amen.
<snip>
>Duane the plane Mitchell, Tallahassee, FL Mk3/912, FireFly for sale
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Dave/all
Yes under some conditions an idling engine will provide some thrust. Get
yourself a portable air speed indicator and get as close as you dare to the
windy side of your prop when the engine is idling. What is that air/wind
speed, add some to the result just because. If you are flying faster than
that speed you will not get any thrust. If you are flying slower or stopped
you will get some thrust. For most of us depending on idle RPMs, reduction
ratio, and prop pitch you will not see any thrust from a idling engine in
the air.
Also the thrust isn't linear by RPM.
My $.02 worth.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
<pelletier@cableone.net>
>
> Guy,
>
> After I completed my BFI training, I told myself that I wouldn't take
up
> a passenger until I had done at least six dead stick (power off) landings,
> which I did. Each time, I landed hard but not hard enough to bend the
gear.
> (I do that regularly with power.) It sure seems to me that there is a lot
> less thrust than with the engine idling.
>
> Back in Feb when I "landed long on a short runway," (which also had a
> downhill slope) besides a severe case of dumbness on my part, my problem
was
> floating, floating, floating. Afterwards, a very experienced pilot asked
me
> what my idling rpm was - I answered about 2000 rmp. Then she asked what
my
> full power rpm was - I answered about 6500 rpm. She then asked if I
> realized that since idling is about 1/3 of the full power rpm, would it be
> fair to assume that at idle rpm, I am still generating 1/3 of full power
> thrust? >
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Bob's off road vehicle |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I got my first excitement this afternoon. I had flown a little pattern
this morning,
went home for lunch, took a nap, bought some gas and headed back to the
airport. After a shorter warmup period than usual I taxied down to the
end of
strip, an abbreviated runup and I was off. Since the wind was more
from the
north today that's the way I turned to make it a right hand pattern.
I came back on the power a bit and it apparently suffered from a carb
ice
problem right then. hmmmm, not good methinks. Further power settings
resulted in rpms changing in ways not connected to the little lever.
-surging and whatnot. I decided a precautionary landing in a field was
better than the woods over near the strip. ahh, the wheat field it is.
Right into the wind. Sure glad that farmer uses his rock picker.
Shutting it down, I looked it over pretty good, nothing had fell off.
I gave the fuel press reg. one click up and started it up. Business as
usual. After a lengthy runup (this time), and glance over at some
curiosity
seekers in a pickup on the road, I went for it. Long stubble and lotsa
weeds had me in a bad place until I crested a small rise and voila!
the upcoming fencerow was below me. This time I left it at full
throttle
and picked the smoothest terrain back home. No problem returning
but it sure was made up of the briefest route possible.
Parked in front of the hangar, I pulled off about a bushel of clingy
weeds
from the lower stabilizer wires and pushed it in to bed. Not a scratch.
I guess that induction system might be a little cold-blooded. A carb
heat
system may be in the works. -and a little longer warmup period.
Lawnmower time. BB, do not archive
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
This would be true if the propeller behaved the same in still air as it does
in moving air, which it doesn't, but generally speaking the idling engine
has a fair bit less drag then a wind milling prop, so a dead stick landing
is quite a bit different then a idling landing. Having been through this
for real once I can tell you that it is true. Planes come down a lot faster
with the prop being driven by the wind then they do when they are being
driven by an engine. If you want to come down fast and there is no penalty
in loosing power shutting it down is a valid thing to do. (slipping or
flaps are a better Idea cause you can change your mind about them,
restarting the engine is always a maybe!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard & Martha
Neilsen
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Dave/all
Yes under some conditions an idling engine will provide some thrust. Get
yourself a portable air speed indicator and get as close as you dare to the
windy side of your prop when the engine is idling. What is that air/wind
speed, add some to the result just because. If you are flying faster than
that speed you will not get any thrust. If you are flying slower or stopped
you will get some thrust. For most of us depending on idle RPMs, reduction
ratio, and prop pitch you will not see any thrust from a idling engine in
the air.
Also the thrust isn't linear by RPM.
My $.02 worth.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
<pelletier@cableone.net>
>
> Guy,
>
> After I completed my BFI training, I told myself that I wouldn't take
up
> a passenger until I had done at least six dead stick (power off) landings,
> which I did. Each time, I landed hard but not hard enough to bend the
gear.
> (I do that regularly with power.) It sure seems to me that there is a lot
> less thrust than with the engine idling.
>
> Back in Feb when I "landed long on a short runway," (which also had a
> downhill slope) besides a severe case of dumbness on my part, my problem
was
> floating, floating, floating. Afterwards, a very experienced pilot asked
me
> what my idling rpm was - I answered about 2000 rmp. Then she asked what
my
> full power rpm was - I answered about 6500 rpm. She then asked if I
> realized that since idling is about 1/3 of the full power rpm, would it be
> fair to assume that at idle rpm, I am still generating 1/3 of full power
> thrust? >
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Richard/Kolbers
OK, lets say in your experiment that we read 10 mph on the wind indicator.
So anything above 10 mph forward motion of the craft produces drag. At what
speed then, does a stopped prop start to produce drag? Kirk
>
> Yes under some conditions an idling engine will provide some thrust. Get
> yourself a portable air speed indicator and get as close as you dare to
the
> windy side of your prop when the engine is idling. What is that air/wind
> speed, add some to the result just because. If you are flying faster than
> that speed you will not get any thrust. If you are flying slower or
stopped
> you will get some thrust.
Do not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Planes come down a lot faster
| with the prop being driven by the wind then they do when they are
being
| driven by an engine.
If you want to come down fast and there is no penalty
| in loosing power shutting it down is a valid thing to do.
Topher
Toper/All:
Most of our little airplanes are gearbox driven. Neither the two
stroke or the 4 stroke Rotax engines will windmill. In air starts by
windmilling the prop won't work. When the prop is stopped, it is a
true dead stick.
Rather than shutting the engine down to increase descent, why not put
the airplane into a spin. Most Kolbs will spin right up with the prop
stopped. The original Firestar would only do 1/2 turn with idling
engine, but would wrap it right up from now on with dead stick.
Ultrastar would spin on a dime, dead stick or running. Recovery from
a spin in a Kolb is quick with relaxed controls and a little forward
stick.
Most all Kolbs are pretty draggy. Chop power, push the nose over,
hold 75 or 80 mph, and it will rapidly descend. With dead stick in a
90 deg dive, my original Firestar would just bump 90 mph indicated,
which was enough to do a nice engine off symetrical loop with neutral
g's on top. :-)
Take care,
john h
PS: Heading for the airstrip to stick new brake linings and wheels
back on my MKIII. Hopefully, these tubes will do better than the last
ones. I never did find aircraft grade tubes with a 90 deg valve stem,
so am going with what MATCO provides, Cheng Shin 800X6
specials................................
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 11:23 AM 8/31/04 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
>Jack,
> How many pounds of drag does a stopped prop and also a freewheeling prop
>produce at the speed used in this formula? Kirk
>
>
>". Under
>> these conditions, the program says that the propeller is developing eleven
>> pounds of negative thrust or drag. "
>
>Do not archive
>
Kirk,
Conditions, 50 mph, 40 inch pitch, 60 inch 2 blade propeller.
At zero rpm it shows zero thrust, but if one puts in 0.01 rpm it shows 5.1 pounds
of negative thrust.
But if one increases propeller speed the negative thrust value increases to a value
of -36.150 pounds and the propeller is turning at 314 rpm. Power absorbed
at this rpm is -2.4483 hp If one increases propeller speed the power absorbed
by the prop peaks at -2.4770 hp at 391 rpm with a thrust of -35.702 pounds.
Having done this, I am not sure how to interpet what is going on here, or even
if it is meaningful.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 24
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| Subject: | Alaska 2004 Part II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Good Evening All:
Time to depart the Whitefish, MT, area and head out for Canada. This
was my farewell view of a beautiful little Montana town:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0802.JPG
Cranbrook, British Columbia, was my first landing in Canada:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0808.JPG
Not a bad place to wait for Customs Clearance, the parking apron in
front of Canadian Customs at Cranbrook:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0810.JPG
After topping off with fuel, I flew up the Columbia River Trench on my
way to Prince George:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0832.JPG
It kept on getting better the further north I flew:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0833.JPG
And even better:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0844.JPG
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | 582 Timing Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
Ok rotax repairman and engine goorou guys I got my bullet proof vest on
now, so here goes with my question. I have a 582 (Grey Head) that has a
bad pickup coil (old style). The new style that I have on order has
slotted mounting holes to allow for pres ice timing adjustment. The
specs. call for the timing to be set at .076-.078 BTDC. Any experts out
there have an opinion about how much the 582 is detuned by timing? Can I
advance it some without harming it or causing detenation? And does this
figure include the compensation for the spark plug angle when reading
the dial indicator? Any opinions or comments are welcome. ~ Earl
Message 26
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
John,
I thought you added the clutch to your gearbox to eliminate the startup
shaking... if you did I find it hard to believe that it doesn't windmill
fairly easily. When I flew with a clutched belt drive all those years the
prop windmilled at anything below clutch engagement rpm, and you could dive
that plane near straight down and never get above 70 mph... damn near a
parachute. Have you gone power off since (if) you added the clutch? IF not
you might want to try it, you may find your plane handles a bit different
then before the clutch. If you didn't ever add the clutch then "NEVER MIND"
topher
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Planes come down a lot faster
| with the prop being driven by the wind then they do when they are
being
| driven by an engine.
If you want to come down fast and there is no penalty
| in loosing power shutting it down is a valid thing to do.
Topher
Toper/All:
Most of our little airplanes are gearbox driven. Neither the two
stroke or the 4 stroke Rotax engines will windmill. In air starts by
windmilling the prop won't work. When the prop is stopped, it is a
true dead stick.
Rather than shutting the engine down to increase descent, why not put
the airplane into a spin. Most Kolbs will spin right up with the prop
stopped. The original Firestar would only do 1/2 turn with idling
engine, but would wrap it right up from now on with dead stick.
Ultrastar would spin on a dime, dead stick or running. Recovery from
a spin in a Kolb is quick with relaxed controls and a little forward
stick.
Most all Kolbs are pretty draggy. Chop power, push the nose over,
hold 75 or 80 mph, and it will rapidly descend. With dead stick in a
90 deg dive, my original Firestar would just bump 90 mph indicated,
which was enough to do a nice engine off symetrical loop with neutral
g's on top. :-)
Take care,
john h
PS: Heading for the airstrip to stick new brake linings and wheels
back on my MKIII. Hopefully, these tubes will do better than the last
ones. I never did find aircraft grade tubes with a 90 deg valve stem,
so am going with what MATCO provides, Cheng Shin 800X6
specials................................
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: low rpm thrust/drag |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Had a friend once with a clutch in his C box, allowed the prop to freewheel
when the engine went to idle. He claimed that at idle, the prop became a
huge airbrake. Would that correlate with your numbers?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 08:24 PM 8/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
>Conditions, 50 mph, 40 inch pitch, 60 inch 2 blade propeller.
>
>At zero rpm it shows zero thrust, but if one puts in 0.01 rpm it shows 5.1
>pounds of negative thrust.
>
>But if one increases propeller speed the negative thrust value increases
>to a value of -36.150 pounds and the propeller is turning at 314 rpm.
>Power absorbed at this rpm is -2.4483 hp If one increases propeller speed
>the power absorbed by the prop peaks at -2.4770 hp at 391 rpm with a
>thrust of -35.702 pounds.
>
>Having done this, I am not sure how to interpet what is going on here, or
>even if it is meaningful.
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Jackson, MO
>
>
>Jack & Louise Hart
>jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Alaska 2004 Part II (cont) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
OK Gang:
I screwed up again and hit the send key. Sorry.
The scenery got better and better, but forced landing areas did not.
There weren't any. When I committed to fly this route, the shortest
route, I knew how serious a good dependable airplane and engine was:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0845.JPG
I landed at Golden, BC, for fuel and a short break, Valemount, BC, and
McBride, BC, before finally landing at Prince George, BC:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0845.JPG
Doesn't look like it, but I got weathered in here for two days and
nights. Luckily, I discovered the Prince George Flying Club House on
the other side of the airport. The little sign on the left of the
railing says, "Travelers Welcome":
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0859.JPG
After leaving Prince George I headed west and north for Smithers.
Beautiful scenery, while flying low level, even though the weather was
slowly deteriorating, and the tempereature was dropping:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0859.JPG
I made Smithers, BC, and had a char grilled hamburger, refueled and
got ready to head out into some real "sparsely populated" country:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0880.JPG
This is the Stewart-Cassiar Highway on the right, and I can not
remember the name of the river that parallels it:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0881.JPG
If I could get fuel at Meziadin Lake, I would be able to fly to
Stewart, BC, and Hyder, Alaska, a 40 mile spur off the highway. I
decided to check out the gas pump at the lumber company store. There
was a gravel strip across the highway. I had landed there three years
ago on my return from Barrow, Alaska:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0896.JPG
After I landed at the gravel strip, I walked across the highway and
asked the lady at the store if I could taxi my airplane over and get
fuel. She said, "By all means, yes!" "People do it all the time".
Nice to fly in a friendly atmosphere like this:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0886.JPG
Times like this I can mix 87 octane auto fuel with the 100LL in the
airplane, and continue to keep the overall octane above the required
91 octane for the Rotax 912ULS engine:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0888.JPG
With a belly full of car gas, and my belly full of a candy bar and
Coke, we get ready to take off and head north:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0890.JPG
This is Meziadin Lake, like a scene out of a fairy tale. I will fly
the length of the lake, then keep on going into an extremely tight
valley that will lead me to Stewart, BC, and Hyder, Alaska:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0901.JPG
We fly by Bear Glacier, right on the road to Stewart:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0908.JPG
I had my doubts that I could make it all the way into Stewart, where
the airstrip is located. I also doubted that I would be able to fly
up the Salmon Glacier and the Granduc Copper Mine:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0909.JPG
I kept pushing on, hoping the weather did not close in behind me,
preventing me from continuing north after my short visit.
Then..........there it was. The little village of Stewart, BC, the
airstrip, and the Portland Canal:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0911.JPG
Again................., it still keeps getting better:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0914.JPG
And better:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0915.JPG
Rafting up timber in the Portland Canal:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0917.JPG
I turned the corner and flew up the Salmon River Valley:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0922.JPG
The foot of the Salmon Glacier:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0925.JPG
More:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0929.JPG
Needless to say, I was sitting on the edge of my seat during this
flight. Fantastic!!!:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0932.JPG
Looking on up Salmon Glacier until it disappears into the clouds:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0936.JPG
Old mine shaft on the side of the mountain:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0939.JPG
The Granduc Copper Mine was closed in 1984, but the old company
airstrip is still in good enough shape for Miss P'fer to do her thing:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0943.JPG
In north country there is always beauty:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0944.JPG
All alone on the Granduc airstrip:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0946.JPG
Glaciers everywhere:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0953.JPG
More glaciers:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0955.JPG
And more:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0957.JPG
Remnants of the Granduc:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0959.JPG
Same:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0960.JPG
Flying back to the Salmon Glacier:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0963.JPG
Then a right turn and fly right up the glacier:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0968.JPG
It is huge and steep. The camera can not present to the viewer the
immense size of this glacier, the 5th largest in the world:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0972.JPG
Rather than take a chance on getting caught in the weather, I turn
around and head back down the glacier:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0974.JPG
It makes a nice sweeping turn towards Hyder:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0976.JPG
Same:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0978.JPG
Heading down off the mountain:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0980.JPG
Got my eye on the reduced visibility. This is no place to place with
clouds and fog:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0982.JPG
The remnants of snow that fell thousands of years ago:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0983.JPG
Continuing to fly down off the mountain and the glacier:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0984.JPG
The southernmost village in Alaska, Hyder:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0987.JPG
More Hyder:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0988.JPG
Left base and final for Stewart Airport:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0990.JPG
On the ground at Stewart Airport:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0996.JPG
Always wondered how those NW log truck drivers got the trailers piggy
backed on the trucks:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0998.JPG
This is how they do it. Was sitting in Miss P'fer getting ready to
takeoff when I shot these pics:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/Alaska%202004/DSCF0999.JPG
I'll shut this part of my trip down for the night. Try to get more up
when time permits.
Take care,
john h
titus, alabama
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
startup
| shaking... | topher
Topher/All:
I upgraded to the slip clutch, which is standard equipment on current
912ULS engines. It is not the centrifugal clutch that is used by some
on two strokes. It does not disconnect the prop from the gear box.
When my engine is shut down in flight, the prop stops.
I have a good friend who is recovering from a broken back, due
primarily to a crash caused by a centrifugal clutch on a new aircraft
he was selling. During a rapid decent at idle power, the engine died.
What happened was the clutch released because of the slow idle, then
the engine died. Normally, without the centrifugal clutch the engine
would have continued to run at closed throttle because of some help
from the slip stream. If I was going to fly another two stroke, I
would not fly with a centrifugal clutch. I am not saying they are
bad, I am simply expressing my own preferences.
john h
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Topher/Kolbers,
For coming out of the sky quickly, the windmilling prop generally provides
the most drag. The stopped
engine/prop has the least drag, except the idling engine MAY have less drag depending
on RPM vs. airspeed. At some RPM
the idling engine reaches a minimum drag point above which it provides thrust,
below which it creates drag. This varies
with aircraft type, prop, etc.
Must get beer now. Head hurts.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Forced Landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
>
> This would be true if the propeller behaved the same in still air as it does
> in moving air, which it doesn't, but generally speaking the idling engine
> has a fair bit less drag then a wind milling prop, so a dead stick landing
> is quite a bit different then a idling landing. Having been through this
> for real once I can tell you that it is true. Planes come down a lot faster
> with the prop being driven by the wind then they do when they are being
> driven by an engine. If you want to come down fast and there is no penalty
> in loosing power shutting it down is a valid thing to do. (slipping or
> flaps are a better Idea cause you can change your mind about them,
> restarting the engine is always a maybe!
>
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