Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: wings wanted (Ken korenek)
2. 08:08 AM - Re: thrust numbers (Richard Swiderwski)
3. 09:24 AM - Off-list email (Bob & Patti Pongracz)
4. 10:35 AM - New product announcement: affordable VG's (Land Shorter)
5. 12:48 PM - Re: SS engine decision complete :-) (Paul Petty)
6. 01:54 PM - Michigan Flying Event (kfackler)
7. 02:47 PM - Stall speed (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
8. 03:21 PM - Re: Stall speed (robert bean)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: Stall speed (bryan green)
10. 06:03 PM - 377 powered FS's airspeed (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
11. 06:10 PM - Re: Stall speed (Thom Riddle)
12. 06:47 PM - Re: Stall speed (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wings wanted |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
Ed,
I THINK they will fit the Firefly- I recall taking some measurements for
a "Fly" owner some time ago and that the attach fittings mated, but the
lift struts and aileron control tubes would have to be resized.
For a FireStar, it is just a matter of bolting everything up with minor
adjustment.
Sure would like to find a happy home for these wings...
Ken Korenek
Arlington, Texas
"Kolbless" with a Titan in the garage
DAquaNut@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/4/04 8:27:21 AM Central Standard Time,
>kkorenek@comcast.net writes:
>
><<
> I have a really nice set of 5 rib wings. Only 30 hrs on 'em.
>
> Need to get rif of 'em.
> >>
>
> Ken,
> I wonder if they would fit a firefly. Just thinking out loud. They probably
>weigh just enough to make the total weight over 254, then I would have to
>worry about the sport pilot thingy.
>
> Ed (In Houston)
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Hey Bob,
What prop selector calc are you using? Will you be able to compute
your engine hp at full throttle if you know your pitch & speed?... Richard
Swiderski
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert bean
Subject: Kolb-List: thrust numbers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
G'mornin all, Here's some numbers from the prop selector calc.
It was a big help in setting up for initial flight. I have it set on
the
fine side and will most likely coarsen it up later.
Currently at 2035 prop rpm (throttled back considerable)
I can maintain level flight at 1200 msl @ 60mph with only
143 lbs thrust which calcs out to 31 hp !!!
I was concerned that this plane might need near 200 lbs
to accomplish the same thing. Happily, there's a big cushion.
The calculator shows I can add one more degree pitch without
much change in climb thrust but I'll try half a degree first.
-BB, low time/old Kolb do not archive
Message 3
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0.00 DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06 Date: is 3 to 6 hours after Received: date
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob & Patti Pongracz" <bobnpatti@enter.net>
Dennis S - email me off list when you get a chance.
Thanks,
Bob P.
Firefly
Message 4
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| Subject: | New product announcement: affordable VG's |
homebuilt-list@matronics.com, jabiru-list@matronics.com,
kitfox-list@matronics.com, kolb-list@matronics.com, kr-list@matronics.com,
l29-list@matronics.com, l39-list@matronics.com,
lancair-list@matronics.com.1.00.SORTED_RECIPS.Recipient.list.is.sorted.by.address
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Land Shorter <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a "flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing. VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter, and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
1-877-272-1414 (toll free)
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: SS engine decision complete :-) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Rusty,
Let me know when you are coming to pic up the SS. I would like to meet you
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: SS engine decision complete :-)
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hey ten bucks is ten bucks if you want to wimp out on the building
> experience its a great deal
> -------------------
>
> Hey, ten bucks, AND beating Richard in the air :-)
>
> Rusty
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Michigan Flying Event |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Dear Fellow Kolbers:
Once again the Greater Thumb Ultralight Flyers (GTUF) is planning a Round the Thumb
trip. The date for this one is 9/18. If you're interested in joining us,
please consult the following link:
http://www.staliteaviation.com/gtuf/gtuf_menu.html
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Hi Kolbers,
My name is Mike Moulai or Kiwi for short, I am the UK/European distributor for
Kolb aircraft and I am New to the Group.
I have been flying for 11 years (microlights) and are a flying instructor and examiner,
also a test pilot in the UK.
At the moment the stall speed of the Xtra is 37kt at a weight of 431 Kg I need
to get the stall speed down to 35 Kt or lower. I have temporarily lowered the
take off weight to 405 Kg to enable us to gain approval, this gives a stall speed
of 33.5Kt.
I am looking at fitting a aluminium leading edge sheet to the wing prior to covering,
this to increase the overall camber of the wing and doing so also smoothening
the airflow over the wing and theoritically reducing the stall speed.
Alternatively I have seen vortex generators made by the VG Guy which also are claimed
to give the same result, I just think these may look a bit out of place.
I would appreciate any comments.
Regards Mike
Silver Fern Microlights Ltd
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Mike, are you allowed to use flaps for the stall speed? Flightwise I'm
a novice in a Kolb
but here's my observations so far. The MkIII and most likely the xtra
too, being so close
to the ground have a considerable ground effect. It will lift off (if
pachyderms are not onboard)
at 35 mph and scoot along there for a bit until 40+ is achieved then go
up nicely.
Note: I think in mph even with some sailboat experience. My bird has
leading edge tin
but I don't believe it has anything more than a cosmetic effect.
On landing the ground effect does it's thing once again. If you round
it out 2 feet above the
ground you will be stuck with that 2 feet until speed bleeds off and
you plop down.
- a fairly short "float" range. Not having looked here, I imagine this
is still somewhere
near 35 mph. -BB, MkIII N3851E, in excess of 3 hours
BTW, I tried the bungee autopilot system and find an improvement
although I'm inclined
to GOOP on a small aileron trim tab yet. do not archive
On 5, Sep 2004, at 5:47 PM, Silver Fern Microlights Ltd wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
> <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> My name is Mike Moulai or Kiwi for short, I am the UK/European
> distributor for Kolb aircraft and I am New to the Group.
> I have been flying for 11 years (microlights) and are a flying
> instructor and examiner, also a test pilot in the UK.
> At the moment the stall speed of the Xtra is 37kt at a weight of 431
> Kg I need to get the stall speed down to 35 Kt or lower. I have
> temporarily lowered the take off weight to 405 Kg to enable us to gain
> approval, this gives a stall speed of 33.5Kt.
> I am looking at fitting a aluminium leading edge sheet to the wing
> prior to covering, this to increase the overall camber of the wing and
> doing so also smoothening the airflow over the wing and theoritically
> reducing the stall speed.
> Alternatively I have seen vortex generators made by the VG Guy which
> also are claimed to give the same result, I just think these may look
> a bit out of place.
>
> I would appreciate any comments.
>
> Regards Mike
> Silver Fern Microlights Ltd
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Mike I don't think you will lower stall speed by adding weight to the
leading edge. If you only need a couple of knots lower weight or go with
VG's. JMHO
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Kolb-List: Stall speed
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
<kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> My name is Mike Moulai or Kiwi for short, I am the UK/European distributor
for Kolb aircraft and I am New to the Group.
> I have been flying for 11 years (microlights) and are a flying instructor
and examiner, also a test pilot in the UK.
> At the moment the stall speed of the Xtra is 37kt at a weight of 431 Kg I
need to get the stall speed down to 35 Kt or lower. I have temporarily
lowered the take off weight to 405 Kg to enable us to gain approval, this
gives a stall speed of 33.5Kt.
> I am looking at fitting a aluminium leading edge sheet to the wing prior
to covering, this to increase the overall camber of the wing and doing so
also smoothening the airflow over the wing and theoritically reducing the
stall speed.
> Alternatively I have seen vortex generators made by the VG Guy which also
are claimed to give the same result, I just think these may look a bit out
of place.
>
> I would appreciate any comments.
>
> Regards Mike
> Silver Fern Microlights Ltd
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | 377 powered FS's airspeed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 9/3/04 8:36:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
> Just curious what TAS you guys fly/flew your 377 powered FS's. If I'm in a
> hurry I typically fly at 5,000 rpm which produces 65 mph IAS which is 60 mph
> TAS. It can fly a good bit faster but it is uncomfortably loud and thirsty. I
> average 2.2 gph at this cruise speed.
>
>
Thom/others
I run my Original FireStar with 377 at 5000 RPM when cruising. I never
checked or figured out what the TAS is, but I do use a GPS and on a calm day I
get
about 55 to 60 MPH GS. The ASI shows about the same speed. I sometimes find
myself holding too much back pressure on the stick and slowing down due to not
being up on the step (planing-like a boat on water). Then the ASI shows 50
MPH or less. I should install an elevator trim tab to stop doing this. My
fuel burn at 5000 RPM on a trip nets 2 GPH. I have checked this many times and
know it to be accurate. I have a Tenn prop 66 X 30 which is "thicker" than my
buddys prop of same make and size. His 377 burns a lot more fuel on the same
trip, but he is also following me and has to run at higher RPM's to keep up.
We both have 3/4 full enclosures/windshields which helps with the speed.
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar 450 hrs
Audubon, NJ
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Mike,
I made and put VGs on my FireStar and it lowered the stall speed about 3 mph from
31mph indicated to 28mph indicated at a flying weight of about 600 lb. However,
this did nothing for landing speed or distance since the main gear is so
short that most Kolbs landing in 3-point stance are nowhere near stall angle of
attack. However, it did enable lift-off to occur about 2 mph slower than without
the VGs. I am guessing that under power the airflow over the wing is enhanced
compared to the idle throttle setting during landing. I later removed them
because the stall, although slower was rather abrupt, unlike the very gentle
stall without the VGs. If it had shortened landing speed or distance I probably
would have left them on.
Bottom line: VGs might lower your stall speed at gross weight to the UK limit.
Only testing will tell. How do the UK authorities verify these speeds? On a one-on-one
basis or a sample airplane that qualifies the whole lot? In any case
how do they verify actual TAS vs. IAS?
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Greetings Mike,
I would suggest trying vortex generators, I have had excellent results.
Check out my web site
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html
Several people on this list have tried the aluminum leading edge, none have
bragged about it later.
I admit the vortex generators give the MKIII a real "porcupine" look, but
pretty is as pretty does...
Also, the ones that several of us are using are notably larger than the
commercially available stick on ones, which makes them even more unsightly
- but it sure does fly good and land slow. No opinion as to whether the
smaller commercially available Lexan VG's will work as well.
You will need to enhance the control authority of the horizontal
tail/elevator once you add VG's to the wing, because the wing will now fly
slower than the tail can handle, and you can shoot an approach too slow to
flare if you have two full size people aboard.
You might want to try making a bucketfull of the aluminum VG's and taping
them in place, go fly it and see what you think. It won't cost you more
than the price of lunch plus a few hours in the shop. If you don't like it,
take them back off.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:47 PM 9/5/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
><kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
>Hi Kolbers,
>My name is Mike Moulai or Kiwi for short, I am the UK/European distributor
>for Kolb aircraft and I am New to the Group.
>I have been flying for 11 years (microlights) and are a flying instructor
>and examiner, also a test pilot in the UK.
>At the moment the stall speed of the Xtra is 37kt at a weight of 431 Kg I
>need to get the stall speed down to 35 Kt or lower. I have temporarily
>lowered the take off weight to 405 Kg to enable us to gain approval, this
>gives a stall speed of 33.5Kt.
>I am looking at fitting a aluminium leading edge sheet to the wing prior
>to covering, this to increase the overall camber of the wing and doing so
>also smoothening the airflow over the wing and theoritically reducing the
>stall speed.
>Alternatively I have seen vortex generators made by the VG Guy which also
>are claimed to give the same result, I just think these may look a bit out
>of place.
>
>I would appreciate any comments.
>
>Regards Mike
>Silver Fern Microlights Ltd
>
>
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