Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - Re: Slingshot (PATRICK LADD)
2. 05:21 AM - Re: Test results (PATRICK LADD)
3. 05:22 AM - Re: Test results (PATRICK LADD)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: Slingshot (robert bean)
5. 07:29 AM - Re: Slingshot (PATRICK LADD)
6. 07:32 AM - Best Glide... (Jeremy Casey)
7. 08:07 AM - Re: Best Glide... (Lee.Creech@ky.gov)
8. 09:00 AM - Re: Test results (Bob Noyer)
9. 09:22 AM - Re: Best Glide... (ul15rhb@juno.com)
10. 09:57 AM - Fuel Vents (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
11. 10:06 AM - Re: Fuel Vents (ul15rhb@juno.com)
12. 10:15 AM - Re: Best Glide... (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
13. 10:27 AM - Re: Fuel Vents (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
14. 11:44 AM - 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II (Tom Yilk)
15. 11:49 AM - Re: Best Glide... (John Williamson)
16. 12:06 PM - Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II (John Hauck)
17. 12:09 PM - Re: Test results (PATRICK LADD)
18. 12:29 PM - Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II (chris davis)
19. 12:36 PM - Sun`n`Fun (PATRICK LADD)
20. 01:55 PM - Re: Waynes accident (woody)
21. 01:57 PM - Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II (woody)
22. 02:24 PM - Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II (Richard Pike)
23. 05:47 PM - Thanks for the info on the Rotec Panther. (Tom Yilk)
24. 06:15 PM - Re: Sebring Sport Aviation Expo (GeoR38@aol.com)
25. 09:41 PM - Approach Speed (David L. Bigelow)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
<<So by
increasing the speed a little, I would extend my glide distance>>
Hi Richard,
go to any elementary book on gliding and you will find a graph. It will show
2 lines. One will be the speed at which to fly for minimum sink and one will
be the speed to fly for maximum distance.
They are not the same by a long chalk
Most pilots who have only flown power do not even know that the two speeds
exist, mainly of course because they never expect to have to glide and so it
is not taught.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Test results |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
leave ol' Bernoulli and the vacuum-over-the-top-of-the-wing out
of the discussion. A few years back that was almost as acrimonious as
GUNS, Politics, >>
Whoops,
fools rush in etc., you mean you can have an OPINION about Bernoulli.
Thats like saying that E does not equal cm squared. Isn`t it?
Sorry thats as close as I can make this darned confuser write symbols.
Cheers
Pat
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Test results |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Bob,
by the way .Whats T&R?
Pat
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
-And it gets even worse with the general knowledge of the non-aviation
community. I have had people reveal that they would consider an
ultralight safer than a large plane because it could "glide further".
When you tell them a 727 has a much better glide ratio they are
surprised.
-of course a 35mph touchdown in a 6:1 machine handily beats 125 mph
in a 20:1
A good alternative to slipping in my old Chief was to slow it to just
above
stall and add power near the ground. It sunk like a rock but was best
avoided in turbulent air. -BB do not archive
On 27, Oct 2004, at 8:11 AM, PATRICK LADD wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> <<So by
> increasing the speed a little, I would extend my glide distance>>
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> go to any elementary book on gliding and you will find a graph. It
> will show
> 2 lines. One will be the speed at which to fly for minimum sink and
> one will
> be the speed to fly for maximum distance.
> They are not the same by a long chalk
> Most pilots who have only flown power do not even know that the two
> speeds
> exist, mainly of course because they never expect to have to glide and
> so it
> is not taught.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
A good alternative to slipping in my old Chief was to slow it to just above
stall and add power near the ground. It sunk like a rock >>
Hi Bob,
Pretty neat if you get the timing right. Something I have never had to
practice as the Challenger with crossed controls sinks almost vertically.
The guy who owns the strip I fly from has a Cub which he invariably slips
in, leaving the recovery much later than I do. He kicks it straight about 5
feet up and touches down like a feather. I like to have it straight by the
time I come over the hedge.Just chicken I guess.
Cheers
Pat
Message 6
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0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Been reading this discussion on the Slingshot glide rate. It has been
stated a couple of different ways.let me add one more. Best glide
speed.all airplanes have one. It is typically the same as Vy (best
climb RATE) it is the speed on the drag "graphs" where parasitic AND
induced drag are at their COMBINED smallest. Stated slightly different
the speed where as little as possible of your "gravity generated thrust"
is required to maintain airspeed. Going faster or slower will actually
cause an increase in drag which will require my "Thrust.i.e. more rate
of descent, to get the higher thrust). Going slower required higher
angle of attack or higher induced drag (on a higher wing loaded plane
like the SS, the drag will increase at a higher rate) Going faster
causes higher parasitic drag. Remember when the motor is off, the only
THRUST you have working for you is gravity. Clear as mud? Bottom line
is know your "Best glide" airspeed BEFORE the engine quits!!!
Everybody learned this in their pilot training, right?
GREAT site with tons of great info about flying.Should be considered a
crime that EAA and USUA don't have equivalent info on their websites.
(From the Australian Ultralight Federation)
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/contents.html
"Gravity.not just a good idea.it's the LAW!"
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy@kilocharlie.us
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
So, after all is said and done, what's the best glide speed of a Firestar
II? I don't remember seeing this figure in the manual anywhere, but it does
seem worth knowing . . . :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Casey [mailto:n79rt@kilocharlie.us]
Subject: Kolb-List: Best Glide...
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Been reading this discussion on the Slingshot glide rate. It has been
stated a couple of different ways.let me add one more. Best glide speed.all
airplanes have one. It is typically the same as Vy (best climb RATE) it is
the speed on the drag "graphs" where parasitic AND induced drag are at their
COMBINED smallest. Stated slightly different the speed where as little as
possible of your "gravity generated thrust" is required to maintain
airspeed. Going faster or slower will actually cause an increase in drag
which will require my "Thrust.i.e. more rate of descent, to get the higher
thrust). Going slower required higher angle of attack or higher induced
drag (on a higher wing loaded plane like the SS, the drag will increase at a
higher rate) Going faster causes higher parasitic drag. Remember when the
motor is off, the only THRUST you have working for you is gravity. Clear as
mud? Bottom line is know your "Best glide" airspeed BEFORE the engine
quits!!!
Everybody learned this in their pilot training, right?
GREAT site with tons of great info about flying.Should be considered a crime
that EAA and USUA don't have equivalent info on their websites. (From the
Australian Ultralight Federation)
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/contents.html
"Gravity.not just a good idea.it's the LAW!"
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy@kilocharlie.us
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Test results |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
Pat,
T&R, not to be confused with T&A, is Tan & Rested.
Bob N.
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ul15rhb@juno.com" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
The Original Firestar best glide is 38mph. I imagine the Firestar's I and II are
a little higher.
Ralph
-- Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
So, after all is said and done, what's the best glide speed of a Firestar
II? I don't remember seeing this figure in the manual anywhere, but it does
seem worth knowing . . . :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Casey [mailto:n79rt@kilocharlie.us]
Subject: Kolb-List: Best Glide...
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Been reading this discussion on the Slingshot glide rate. It has been
stated a couple of different ways.let me add one more. Best glide speed.all
airplanes have one. It is typically the same as Vy (best climb RATE) it is
the speed on the drag "graphs" where parasitic AND induced drag are at their
COMBINED smallest. Stated slightly different the speed where as little as
possible of your "gravity generated thrust" is required to maintain
airspeed. Going faster or slower will actually cause an increase in drag
which will require my "Thrust.i.e. more rate of descent, to get the higher
thrust). Going slower required higher angle of attack or higher induced
drag (on a higher wing loaded plane like the SS, the drag will increase at a
higher rate) Going faster causes higher parasitic drag. Remember when the
motor is off, the only THRUST you have working for you is gravity. Clear as
mud? Bottom line is know your "Best glide" airspeed BEFORE the engine
quits!!!
Everybody learned this in their pilot training, right?
GREAT site with tons of great info about flying.Should be considered a crime
that EAA and USUA don't have equivalent info on their websites. (From the
Australian Ultralight Federation)
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/contents.html
"Gravity.not just a good idea.it's the LAW!"
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy@kilocharlie.us
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Kolb Friends -
With all the recent discussion on fuel tank vents, and the crucial role they
play in preventing fuel starvation, I became a little concerned.
My Kolb uses the stock 5-gal plastic tanks, with the plastic screw-on caps.
Each cap has a small (1/16 inch diam) vent hole on it. So far, I have not
had any fuel delivery problems. Part of my preflight includes sticking a
skinny metal rod into the cap vent hole to make sure it is unobstructed.
But several other Kolb pilots are describing their fuel vent systems that
plumb vent lines from the cap to the outside of the fuselage.
Is this a better way to vent the fuel tanks? What is the advantage?
Seems like the extra plumming just adds another potential failure, as
someone pointed out how a vent line was pinched shut, causing an engine to
stop.
Are the vent cap holes on my fuel tanks an adequate solution? Just trying
to understand.
Thanks (in advance) for educating me ...
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, N93DK in
New Mexico
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ul15rhb@juno.com" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Dennis,
I have always had the 1/16" hole in the fuel tank cap and never had a problem.
The venting method on the newer models is different so fuel won't leak on the
pilot if it goes on its back.
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
-- Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Kolb Friends -
With all the recent discussion on fuel tank vents, and the crucial role they
play in preventing fuel starvation, I became a little concerned.
My Kolb uses the stock 5-gal plastic tanks, with the plastic screw-on caps.
Each cap has a small (1/16 inch diam) vent hole on it. So far, I have not
had any fuel delivery problems. Part of my preflight includes sticking a
skinny metal rod into the cap vent hole to make sure it is unobstructed.
But several other Kolb pilots are describing their fuel vent systems that
plumb vent lines from the cap to the outside of the fuselage.
Is this a better way to vent the fuel tanks? What is the advantage?
Seems like the extra plumming just adds another potential failure, as
someone pointed out how a vent line was pinched shut, causing an engine to
stop.
Are the vent cap holes on my fuel tanks an adequate solution? Just trying
to understand.
Thanks (in advance) for educating me ...
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, N93DK in
New Mexico
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Best Glide... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
It is good to know the best glide speed to get to your best landing site but
when you are on final increase your speed to your normal approach speed.
Before you have a engine out you need to have it ALL planned out in your
mind. Know exactly what you are going to do so that you can try to get your
engine going again and/or find a good landing site. But the first priority
is fly the plane. Pick a landing site and stick to it. Make minor
adjustments but you can't defy gravity and expect to get to a slightly
better landing site. I like the advice that it is better to hit the fence on
the far end at 30 than to hit the near fence at 50MPH. My best advice is to
make your landing as close to a normal landing as possible. It works.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Best Glide...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ul15rhb@juno.com" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
>
>
> The Original Firestar best glide is 38mph. I imagine the Firestar's I and
> II are a little higher.
>
> Ralph
>
> -- Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
>
> So, after all is said and done, what's the best glide speed of a Firestar
> II? I don't remember seeing this figure in the manual anywhere, but it
> does
> seem worth knowing . . . :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeremy Casey [mailto:n79rt@kilocharlie.us]
> To: Kolb-List@Matronics. Com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Best Glide...
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
> Been reading this discussion on the Slingshot glide rate. It has been
> stated a couple of different ways.let me add one more. Best glide
> speed.all
> airplanes have one. It is typically the same as Vy (best climb RATE) it
> is
> the speed on the drag "graphs" where parasitic AND induced drag are at
> their
> COMBINED smallest. Stated slightly different the speed where as little as
> possible of your "gravity generated thrust" is required to maintain
> airspeed. Going faster or slower will actually cause an increase in drag
> which will require my "Thrust.i.e. more rate of descent, to get the higher
> thrust). Going slower required higher angle of attack or higher induced
> drag (on a higher wing loaded plane like the SS, the drag will increase at
> a
> higher rate) Going faster causes higher parasitic drag. Remember when the
> motor is off, the only THRUST you have working for you is gravity. Clear
> as
> mud? Bottom line is know your "Best glide" airspeed BEFORE the engine
> quits!!!
>
> Everybody learned this in their pilot training, right?
>
> GREAT site with tons of great info about flying.Should be considered a
> crime
> that EAA and USUA don't have equivalent info on their websites. (From the
> Australian Ultralight Federation)
> http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/contents.html
>
> "Gravity.not just a good idea.it's the LAW!"
>
>
> Jeremy Casey
> KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
> jeremy@kilocharlie.us
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
> Now includes pop-up blocker!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
The guys that have the vent tubes out the bottom of the plane are concerned
with a situation were they might flip the airplane on the ground. They don't
want to be trapped in the plane with fuel leaking out. The stock vents work
as well in most cases but do lend themselves to leaking when inverted. Your
choice just don't fix one problem just to create another. I think most all
vents should be covered with some kind of bug screen.
My advice worth the price you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Vents
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL
> <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> With all the recent discussion on fuel tank vents, and the crucial role
> they
> play in preventing fuel starvation, I became a little concerned.
>
> My Kolb uses the stock 5-gal plastic tanks, with the plastic screw-on
> caps.
> Each cap has a small (1/16 inch diam) vent hole on it. So far, I have not
> had any fuel delivery problems. Part of my preflight includes sticking a
> skinny metal rod into the cap vent hole to make sure it is unobstructed.
> But several other Kolb pilots are describing their fuel vent systems that
> plumb vent lines from the cap to the outside of the fuselage.
>
> Is this a better way to vent the fuel tanks? What is the advantage?
>
> Seems like the extra plumming just adds another potential failure, as
> someone pointed out how a vent line was pinched shut, causing an engine to
> stop.
>
> Are the vent cap holes on my fuel tanks an adequate solution? Just trying
> to understand.
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Yilk" <bmwon@charter.net>
Hi guys on the Kolb list, I watch your list from time to time and like all
list everybody has a good and bad opinion on a certain item.
I would like to hear your comments on the Rotec Panther Plus II.
I have searched the internet and cannot find much info. To me they look like
a cross between a Challanger and a Kolb and is about 45 lb's heavy due to
the all fiberglass cabin.
There is one for sale on ebay and has the specs for the craft posted. I also
cant find any crash record for this model other than a takeoff BRS
accidental deployment.
The craft was sold on ebay in august but had a bad bidder or something. If I
purchased it, I may put a BMW 1150 motor on it. or maybe leave the 503 on it
depend on money and ect ect.
I would sure like your input . GOOD and BAD. before I bid.
Thanks
Tom Yilk
Hasting NE
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Fellow Kolbers,
Jeremy's post was very good as far as he went:
>Best glide speed, all airplanes have one. It is typically the same as Vy
(best
climb RATE) it is the speed on the drag "graphs" where parasitic AND
induced drag are at their COMBINED smallest. Stated slightly different the
speed where as little as possible of your "gravity generated thrust"
is required to maintain airspeed. Going faster or slower will actually
cause an increase in drag which will require my "Thrust.i.e. more rate of
descent, to get the higher thrust). Going slower required higher
angle of attack or higher induced drag (on a higher wing loaded plane like
the SS, the drag will increase at a higher rate) Going faster causes higher
parasitic drag. Remember when the motor is off, the only THRUST you have
working for you is gravity. Clear as mud? Bottom line is know your "Best
glide" airspeed BEFORE the engine quits!!! Everybody learned this in their
pilot training, right?
Ralph's post makes me remember that not all of us Kolb flyers had formal
flight training with the aerodynamics classes that go along with it:
>The Original Firestar best glide is 38mph. I imagine the Firestar's I and
II are a little higher.
If you built or bought an Experimental-Amateur Built airplane, you have had
to write or read the following statement in the airframe logbook:
I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the
aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous operating
characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation. The following
aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during the flight testing:
speeds Vso ______, Vx ______, and Vy ______, and the weight ______ and CG
location ______ at which they were obtained.
Best Glide and best rate of climb are normally the same but are effected by
the weight at which we are operating at. As an example, here are the numbers
for my Kolbra I determined during the flight test phase:
1100 lbs: Vso - 51, Vx - 64, Vy - 68
846 lbs: Vso - 44, Vx - 62, Vy - 66
Vso = stall clean, Vx = best angle of climb, Vy = best rate of climb
A FireStar with 10 gallon of fuel on board will have a higher best glide
speed than the same FireStar with 2 gallons of fuel on board.
If you are flying as an ultralight you don't have to meet all the
requirements that the rest of us do, BUT since your FireFly or FireStar are
no different than the ones that are registered as Experimental, and fly
under the same principles as us, then why not test and fly them to a higher
standard.
I suggest that the contents of the following FAA link be read word for word.
Then you can through out what doesn't apply to you, your vehicle or your
flight operation.
http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/amateur/default.htm
As a minimum, every ultralight pilot or experimental aircraft pilot should
be very familiar with this Advisory Circular:
http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/amateur/ac90-89a.pdf
Bottom Line: For our Kolbs, we have to determine what the best glide speed
is since we built it and no two Kolb aircraft models will be exactly the
same. And yes, 2 mph makes a big difference in descent rate.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 698 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
Zenith CH701 Project
http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II
like all
| list everybody has a good and bad opinion on a certain item.
| I would like to hear your comments on the Rotec Panther Plus II.
Hi Tom/All:
Think you have the wrong list.
Pretty sure there is no Kolb in referenced aircraft.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Test results |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
<<T&R, not to be confused with T&A, is Tan & Rested.>>
Thanks. T&A I could have worked out.
Cheers
Pat
pj.ladd@btinternet.com
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "chris davis" <scrounge69@comcast.net>
what?
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi all,
I am tentatively making arrangements to visit Sun`n`Fun next April. I shall probably
be in the USA about 3 weeks. Are there any fly ins or Airshows likely to
be going on around that period?
As I shall fly in to Florida for Lakeland I don`t want to spend too much time travelling
to distant States so anything in Georgia, Alabama or the Carolinas would
be a reasonable area.
I know its a long time ahead but I have to tie in with other family commitments.
Bad news from my dealer. Getting ready to tow his just built 3Xtra to an expert
to be covered he was rear ended by another vehicle. This damaged the trailer
and the wing tips and tail assembly of the Kolb. This means that the brand spanking
new Xtra he was hoping to display at our upcoming major Airsports Exhibition,
the biggest of the year, will appear on the stand as a framework. The Jabiru
will be fitted so that is something but I was hoping against hope that a
couple more customers would place orders so that I can get my kit out of the States
and onto a boat. Times awasting!
Cheers
Pat
pj.ladd@btinternet.com
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Waynes accident |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
We4 got a bit off track with the vent hose causing engine failure
discussion. Waynes engine had a steady decrease in power as he flew. That
led to his decision to land rather than try to get home. Any ideas what may
have caused this?
.
> The engine still turns freely by hand, maybe to freely. The only
problem
> I can see is that it did not seem to be using much oil. Would that cause
> the slow loss of power after about 45 min of flying? Any other ideas.
Temps
> were in a normal range.
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Avoid it. it is old and was not a great airplane to begin with. It was
hyped as a great aircraft by the company but that does not make it a great
airplane. The owner of the company was a great salesman on par with Barnum.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Yilk" <bmwon@charter.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Yilk" <bmwon@charter.net>
>
> Hi guys on the Kolb list, I watch your list from time to time and like all
> list everybody has a good and bad opinion on a certain item.
> I would like to hear your comments on the Rotec Panther Plus II.
> I have searched the internet and cannot find much info. To me they look
like
> a cross between a Challanger and a Kolb and is about 45 lb's heavy due to
> the all fiberglass cabin.
> There is one for sale on ebay and has the specs for the craft posted. I
also
> cant find any crash record for this model other than a takeoff BRS
> accidental deployment.
> The craft was sold on ebay in august but had a bad bidder or something. If
I
> purchased it, I may put a BMW 1150 motor on it. or maybe leave the 503 on
it
> depend on money and ect ect.
> I would sure like your input . GOOD and BAD. before I bid.
> Thanks
>
> Tom Yilk
> Hasting NE
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 1988 Rotec Panther Plus II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Save your money for something worth having. Saw 2 Rotec Rallys on ebay for
$366. Remember the ad that said "It's not a good deal if it's not a good
car?" Save your money. Even if they drop the price...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 01:44 PM 10/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Yilk" <bmwon@charter.net>
>
>Hi guys on the Kolb list, I watch your list from time to time and like all
>list everybody has a good and bad opinion on a certain item.
>I would like to hear your comments on the Rotec Panther Plus II.
>I have searched the internet and cannot find much info. To me they look like
>a cross between a Challanger and a Kolb and is about 45 lb's heavy due to
>the all fiberglass cabin.
>There is one for sale on ebay and has the specs for the craft posted. I also
>cant find any crash record for this model other than a takeoff BRS
>accidental deployment.
>The craft was sold on ebay in august but had a bad bidder or something. If I
>purchased it, I may put a BMW 1150 motor on it. or maybe leave the 503 on it
>depend on money and ect ect.
>I would sure like your input . GOOD and BAD. before I bid.
>Thanks
>
>Tom Yilk
>Hasting NE
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Thanks for the info on the Rotec Panther. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Yilk" <bmwon@charter.net>
You all told me exactly what I needed to Know, guess I will go back to
looking at a Kolb.
Thanks
Tom Yilk
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Sebring Sport Aviation Expo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 10/15/2004 5:36:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rswiderski@earthlink.net writes:
You sure hit the nail on the head with your assessment of Sun & Fun.
I remember when it was a forum for grassroot experimenters. EAA has caved
into Big Money. All their talk about grassroot aviation seems to me to be
empty words. I still go, but the cost is becoming legal extortion & the
focus becoming more heavy metal aircraft & high price accessories. There
still is some pearls to be found in the forum area.
I got word that some grassroot effort is trying to startup at Deland
FL the same weekend as Sebring. Their website is www.delandairjamboree.org
doesn't say much but I heard their mail flyer was pushing a
free(donation)/low cost/family environment with bluegrass music & catering
to sport & UL aircraft. Richard Swiderski
hey Rich....maybe we should go?
geo
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Final approach speed for transport category aircraft is 1.3 times the stall speed
with additives for wind gust factor. Sailplanes use a recommended final approach
speed of 1.5 times the stall speed with additives for wind gust factor.
For an ultralight with a 30 mph stall speed, that works out to 45 mph on final.
Since most ultralights are not aerodynamically clean, airspeed bleeds rapidly during
flare. If you don't maintain enough flare energy (high enough airspeed),
rotation of attitude at flare will not stop the descent and a hard landing may
ensue. An approach at just a few mph above stall is a very bad idea.
Bottom line with any ultralight - fly final at least 1.5 times stall speed with
or without the engine running.
Dave Bigelow
FS 2
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