Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (PATRICK LADD)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (John Hauck)
3. 07:32 AM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (PATRICK LADD)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (robert bean)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (John Hauck)
6. 12:47 PM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (PATRICK LADD)
7. 02:16 PM - Fabric? (Eugene Zimmerman)
8. 02:30 PM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (Robert Laird)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
10. 03:04 PM - Re: Fabric? (terry)
11. 03:11 PM - Re: Fabric? (Jim Clayton)
12. 03:23 PM - Re: Fabric? (Eugene Zimmerman)
13. 03:39 PM - Re: Fabric? (terry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Any suggestions welcome though..>>
Hi Pollus,
if you take up my suggestion of a flying holiday with Mike Moulai in the UK
I know that he is aware of various methods of increasing the tanks. Some are
probably best not talked about too publicly but they are workable.
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Some are
| probably best not talked about too publicly but they are workable.
|
| Pat
Good Morning Pat/Pollus/All:
It is pretty much accepted, most folks are not satisfied with standard
fuel capacity in Kolb aircraft. Usually, they do not realize it until
after they have built and begun flying it.
The time to fix that problem is during building of the aircraft,
before painting and covering. That way, if tubes must be cut and
welded, it can be done without having to redo finish work.
With 25 gal useable capacity and an engine that burns 5 gph at cruise,
I am satisfied, for the most part with my airplane's maximum
endurance. However, there are times I have wished I had more. There
are also times I have flown with a lot of extra fuel weight on board,
actually, most of the time. I usually refuel when fuel is available,
especially when the sight gauge gets at or below the half way point.
I am comfortable flying around the local area with 10 gals, but ready
to take on 5 gals when the sight gauge indicates 5 gal remaining.
I realize you folks in Europe must live with much more stringent
regulations that we do in the US. We are extremely fortunate, over
here, to be able to build and fly our ULs and Lt Planes much the way
we desire.
Glad to hear Pat's Kolb is going to be shipped shortly, and good luck
to Pollus with his MKIIIx.
john h
Titus, Al
MKIIIc/912ULS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
an engine that burns 5 gph at cruise, >>
Hi John, thanks for the good wishes. A kit by Christmas, with a bit of luck.
You fly with a 582 I think. Your 5 US gallons per hour equates to nearly 19
litres per hour. Flying my Eurostar I was getting 11 lph at 100 mph with 2
up with a 912.
I am fitting a Jabiru which in a similar a/c should produce about the same.
In the Kolb which is a fairly draggy configuration and a wing section that
has never been updated I do not expect either that speed or that consumption
but I shall be disappointed if I do not get a cruise speed around 80 mph and
a fuel burn of about 13 litres (about 3.5 US Galls)
The Challenger has just been remarketed over here with a 582 fitted and
claiming 75 mph cruise at 11 litres per hour. 95 mph max.
This must be getting close to the planes range exceeding the pilots.
Cheers
Pat
pj.ladd@btinternet.com
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Patrick, the kolb was not designed for speed. -Doesn't bother me as I
tend to be a little on the slow side myself :) I did think about the
possibility of creating a slot type cuff to be riveted on the leading
edge.
This would reduce the angle of the wing in cruise and still give a
nice slow stall. It would work best if the leading edge tin was
installed
first. Meanwhile I took the easy approach, a four stroke engine.
-BB do not archive
On 5, Nov 2004, at 10:32 AM, PATRICK LADD wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> an engine that burns 5 gph at cruise, >>
> Hi John, thanks for the good wishes. A kit by Christmas, with a bit of
> luck.
> You fly with a 582 I think. Your 5 US gallons per hour equates to
> nearly 19
> litres per hour. Flying my Eurostar I was getting 11 lph at 100 mph
> with 2
> up with a 912.
> I am fitting a Jabiru which in a similar a/c should produce about the
> same.
> In the Kolb which is a fairly draggy configuration and a wing section
> that
> has never been updated I do not expect either that speed or that
> consumption
> but I shall be disappointed if I do not get a cruise speed around 80
> mph and
> a fuel burn of about 13 litres (about 3.5 US Galls)
> The Challenger has just been remarketed over here with a 582 fitted and
> claiming 75 mph cruise at 11 litres per hour. 95 mph max.
>
> This must be getting close to the planes range exceeding the pilots.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> pj.ladd@btinternet.com
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Pat/All:
| You fly with a 582 I think. Your 5 US gallons per hour equates to
nearly 19
| litres per hour. Flying my Eurostar I was getting 11 lph at 100 mph
with 2
| up with a 912.
Initially powered with 582, 5.0 to 5.5 gph, 5,800 rpm, 80 mph;
repowered 912, 1994, 4 gph at 5,000 rpm, 85 mph; repowered 912ULS,
2000, 5,000 rpm, 88 mph, 5.0 gph.
| I am fitting a Jabiru which in a similar a/c should produce about
the same.
The few Jabiru's that have flown on Kolb aircraft performed only
marginally. However, folks still buy and mount them.
| In the Kolb which is a fairly draggy configuration and a wing
section that
| has never been updated I do not expect either that speed or that
consumption
| but I shall be disappointed if I do not get a cruise speed around 80
mph and
| a fuel burn of about 13 litres (about 3.5 US Galls)
You will probably get the performance you have indicated above.
However, take off and climb performance will be inadequate for most of
us spoiled Kolb pilots that are comfortable with the favorable t/o and
climb performance delivered by Rotax engines. I am not trying to sell
Rotax. If there was an alternative that would perform equal to or
better than the 912/912ULS for a better price, it would be mounted on
my MKIII.
|This must be getting close to the planes range exceeding the pilots.
The range of my airplane far exceeds the pilot's. However, can not
have too much fuel.
Take care,
john h
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Patrick, the kolb was not designed for speed. >>
Hi Robert,
neither were most of its contemporaries. It is a product of its time and
none the worse for that, but the ultralight, like everything else has moved
on.
Personally I like something a little different and the Kolb is certainly
that. No doubt that is why I built a Challenger. There were no other pusher
designs and certainly nothing with that performance in the UK at that time.
Now I could choose any of half a dozen a/c with 100 mph performance, the
Jabiru with 130, the Banbi with even more, but I dont think that is what
ultralight flying is all about. We are a long way from the cheap, low and
slow, philosophy we started out with but no one would now buy a Quicksilver
any more than they would buy a Model T Ford. Expectations have moved on.
The trouble is that with the exception of the Kolb all the other designs are
basically the same. They all look alike and perform in a similar manner.
I am going for the Kolb because it is different and the price I pay,
willingly, is that it will not cruise at 100 mph . I expect however to
cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an engine which
will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not consume enormous
quantities of fuel while doing it.
That 20 mph drop in cruise speed is what I am willing to trade for being
different. Vive la difference!
Cheers
Pat
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>We are a long way from the cheap, low and =0D=0A>slow, philosophy we started out
with but no one would now buy a Quicksilver =0D=0A>any more than they would
buy a Model T Ford. Expectations have moved on.=0D=0A=0D=0A Pat --=0D=0A=0D=0A
I'm sure there are more than a handful of people over on the Quicksilver list
who would disagree with you.=A0 There's a fellow named Mark Smith who seems
to always be tweaking and adjusting and improving the Quicksilver design.=A0 He's
not trying to make it faster, but simply better in certain "quality" ways.=A0
The Quicksilver I started out with was flimsy and slow, but it was a ton-o-fun!=A0
The Firestar, at about the same street price, is a far better aircraft
and fun in its own way, but then it was ahead of its time when it first came
out.=A0 I would like to think that someone presented with the option of a Quicksilver
or a Firestar would 100% of the time choose the Kolb, I guess that doesn't=A0
happen since Quicksilvers do a brisk business (mostly after-market, though).=0D=0A=0D=0A>I
am going for the Kolb because it is different and the price
I pay, =0D=0A>willingly, is that it will not cruise at 100 mph . I expect
however to =0D=0A>cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an
engine which =0D=0A>will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not
consume enormous =0D=0A>quantities of fuel while doing it.=0D=0A=0D=0A That's
definitely not an ultralight! <g>=A0 Obviously, I say that in fun... but I do
think that any aircraft that has a Vne of over 65mph is most probably not an
ultralight in any sense.=A0 Call them Sport Planes, Light Sport Aircraft, but
not ultralights.=A0 Even many of the UK microlights exceed the envelope that would
keep them -- in my mind -- ultralights.=0D=0A=0D=0A But, this is all about
fun, isn't it?=A0 So, to each their own...=A0 =0D=0A=0D=0A -- Robert=0D=0A=0D=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Pat,
I certainly hope you won't be disappointed, but I doubt you'll see 80
mph and anywhere near 3.5 gph in a MK III with a 582. What you describe
sounds more like a MK III with a 912. But I do love my much slower MK III
and dream about a 912.
AzDave
Do not archive
I expect however to
> cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an engine which
> will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not consume
> enormous
> quantities of fuel while doing it.
>
> That 20 mph drop in cruise speed is what I am willing to trade for being
> different. Vive la difference!
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>
> I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
> Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
>
>
Gene,
The number is: 1-877-877-3334
Terry
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
Hi Eugene/All,
http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
1-877-877-3334
-Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, 912ULS.....Building
www.quantumwrench.com/Kolb.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
Of Eugene
Zimmerman
Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric?
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
<eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar
project.
Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real
handy?
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Thanks Terry,
Ya doing much flying lately?
do not archive
terry wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
>
> Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>>
>>I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
>>Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
>>
>>
>
>
> Gene,
> The number is: 1-877-877-3334
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>
> Thanks Terry,
>
> Ya doing much flying lately?
> do not archive
>
> terry wrote:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
> >
> > Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
> >>
> >>I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
> >>Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Gene,
> > The number is: 1-877-877-3334
> >
> > Terry
>
Gene,
Yeah, up until the weather went south this last week. How about you?!!
Ready to cover the new project are you? Will be interested in seeing the results!
Made your color choices yet?
Terry
Do Not Archive
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