Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:20 AM - Re: 10 K Club (PATRICK LADD)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: 10K Club (Airgriff2@aol.com)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: 10 K Club (Richard Pike)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: 10K Club (George Bass)
5. 09:00 AM - Re: 10K Club (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
6. 09:16 AM - Re: 10K Club (JACK HART)
7. 10:26 AM - Re: 10K Club (George E. Myers Jr.)
8. 10:30 AM - Re: 10 K Club (Jim Baker)
9. 01:42 PM - Re: 10 K Club (russkinne)
10. 03:07 PM - Kolb's Overstock Sale (David Paule)
11. 06:14 PM - Re: 10 K Club aka Clearances (Bob N.)
12. 07:04 PM - Re: 11/11 (Denny Rowe)
13. 07:44 PM - Re: 11/11 (Beauford)
14. 08:02 PM - Re: 11/11 (John Hauck)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
just call them when you are in the air. By the time you are up
to 10k, the hour's notice will have been passed in enjoyable flight. >>
Hi,
I just love the general attitude that authority is just there to be
circumvented. You are a nation of natural rebels.
I would have assumed in my panty waisted, British way, that if an hours
notice is required to process an application, that whatever action is
proposed should be postponed for an hour to enable a decision to be made.
If you intend to do it anyway, why ask?
Is this responsible behaviour? Would denial of permission keep you out of
the way of a flock F-15s or a 747.
It could just be that there is a reason for asking for an hours notice.
Just intrigued,
Pat
pj.ladd@btinternet.com
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
> >> Yeah, takeoff from Leadville, Colorado and you'd have to climb to 19,927'
>> MSL in
>> order to be 10,000' AGL...
>>
>> DVD
>>
>>
>> Quoting Lee.Creech@ky.gov:
>>
>> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
>> >
>> > It seems to me that the qualifying altitude should be MSL, not AGL,
>> so as to
>> > not unfairly penalize people who fly out of high-altitude strips .
>> . . :)
>> >
>> > Lee
>> > Do not archive
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Dave & Eve Pelletier [mailto:pelletier@cableone.net]
>> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 10K Club
>> >
>> >
>> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
>> > --> <pelletier@cableone.net>
>> >
>> > Yeah, same as me Will. Our field elevation is 4,400 so I would
>> have to go
>> > to 14,400 to join the club.
>> >
>> > AzDave
>> >
>> > Do Not Archive
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <WillUribe@aol.com>
>> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 10K Club
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>> > >
>> > > So I would have to fly above 14,000 ft MSL to be at 10,000 ft AGL
>> > > without mode C and no oxygen? :-0
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Will Uribe
>> > > El Paso, TX
>> > > FireStar II N4GU
>> > > C-172 N2506U
>> > > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
>> > > Do not Archive
>>
>
OK guys, I can't believe what I've got myself into with trying to
organize a 10 K club. I thought it would be fun and recognizee others who have
achieved it. I know you can't please everyone but this has really been ripped
apart, put down, argued over, etc. Some want the guy in Leadville CO. to fly his
plane up 73ft and get an award ? Others say it cant be done unless
transponder with mode c, oxygen, and radar are on board, along with special clearances,
and waivers ? I've had enough. I made certificates which say: Kolb aircraft
10K club this award is presented to ____ for his outstanding courage and
ability to pilot a Kolb aircraft to an altitude of at least 10,000 ft AGL (above
ground level). If you would like one I'll send it to you. E-mail me your
mailing address at Airgriff2@aol.com and I'll get it to you. (write 10K in the
subject box)
Sorry for all the hard feelings, arguing, and disappointment to some.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
As a retired air traffic controller, let me chime in on this one.
Not sure what the thinking was on the original reason for the one hour
delay, I suspect that it was in case there was a high traffic workload in
the sector, center radar outages, the possibility that there is someone
enroute IFR and NORDO and center would be unable to tell them about you, etc.
If memory serves me correctly (always problematic any more...) there are
other instances in the FAR's where you can get various concessions if you
call an hour ahead, but anyway, here is how it works in practice. It always
comes down to the controller working the position, if that controller is
someone who sees the job as the best means to make a lot of money for the
least work possible, or more often, is unable to think outside the box -in
this case the 7110, the manual for ATC- then things don't work well. But if
you get someone who sees themselves as being there to provide pilots with
whatever they want -safety & FAR's permitting- then you are home free.
I have always worked in the Southern Region of the FAA, (and that's
changing, the FAA is reshuffling the different regions) but it used to be
that pilots from Up Nawth would frequently say "Youse guys down heah are
really easy to work with compared to our guys Up Nawth." We considered that
to be the highest possible compliment.
As in any other bureaucracy, I think there are two different attitudes in
the FAA: historically, it has always been "With coordination, anything is
permitted except what is prohibited." With the new crop of controllers
coming in, and historically Up Nawth, it was "Everything is prohibited
except what is permitted."
And from what I glean from Patrick, English Air Traffic Controllers learn
their trade Up Nawth.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 10:20 AM 11/13/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> just call them when you are in the air. By the time you are up
>to 10k, the hour's notice will have been passed in enjoyable flight. >>
>
>Hi,
>I just love the general attitude that authority is just there to be
>circumvented. You are a nation of natural rebels.
>I would have assumed in my panty waisted, British way, that if an hours
>notice is required to process an application, that whatever action is
>proposed should be postponed for an hour to enable a decision to be made.
>If you intend to do it anyway, why ask?
>Is this responsible behaviour? Would denial of permission keep you out of
>the way of a flock F-15s or a 747.
>It could just be that there is a reason for asking for an hours notice.
>
>Just intrigued,
>
>Pat
>
>pj.ladd@btinternet.com
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
I heard a quote some time ago, that seems to
be very applicable at this point:
"No good turn goes unstoned."
Sorry for your frustration,
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
USUA #30899
---
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Bob,
Thanks for organizing the 10K club. Please don't take the comments as
"put downs". Guys are just giving you their ideas, just as you did for
coming up with the idea in the first place. Part of the fun is doing it,
but on these rainy days (which we don't have many of here) another part of
the fun is this list, which gives us the opportunity to comment on other
ideas.
Again, Thanks.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Airgriff2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 10K Club
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
>
>>
>> >> Yeah, takeoff from Leadville, Colorado and you'd have to climb to
>> >> 19,927'
>>> MSL in
>>> order to be 10,000' AGL...
>>>
>>> DVD
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Lee.Creech@ky.gov:
>>>
>>> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
>>> >
>>> > It seems to me that the qualifying altitude should be MSL, not
>>> AGL,
>>> so as to
>>> > not unfairly penalize people who fly out of high-altitude strips
>>> .
>>> . . :)
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> > Do not archive
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Dave & Eve Pelletier [mailto:pelletier@cableone.net]
>>> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>>> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 10K Club
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
>>> > --> <pelletier@cableone.net>
>>> >
>>> > Yeah, same as me Will. Our field elevation is 4,400 so I would
>>> have to go
>>> > to 14,400 to join the club.
>>> >
>>> > AzDave
>>> >
>>> > Do Not Archive
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: <WillUribe@aol.com>
>>> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 10K Club
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>>> > >
>>> > > So I would have to fly above 14,000 ft MSL to be at 10,000 ft
>>> AGL
>>> > > without mode C and no oxygen? :-0
>>> > >
>>> > > Regards,
>>> > > Will Uribe
>>> > > El Paso, TX
>>> > > FireStar II N4GU
>>> > > C-172 N2506U
>>> > > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
>>> > > Do not Archive
>>>
>>
> OK guys, I can't believe what I've got myself into with trying to
> organize a 10 K club. I thought it would be fun and recognizee others who
> have
> achieved it. I know you can't please everyone but this has really been
> ripped
> apart, put down, argued over, etc. Some want the guy in Leadville CO. to
> fly his
> plane up 73ft and get an award ? Others say it cant be done unless
> transponder with mode c, oxygen, and radar are on board, along with
> special clearances,
> and waivers ? I've had enough. I made certificates which say: Kolb
> aircraft
> 10K club this award is presented to ____ for his outstanding courage
> and
> ability to pilot a Kolb aircraft to an altitude of at least 10,000 ft AGL
> (above
> ground level). If you would like one I'll send it to you. E-mail me
> your
> mailing address at Airgriff2@aol.com and I'll get it to you. (write 10K in
> the
> subject box)
> Sorry for all the hard feelings, arguing, and disappointment to some.
> Fly Safe
> Bob Griffin
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: JACK HART <jbhart@ldd.net>
Kolbers,
Just recieved this from a fellow member in EAA Chapter 453:
http://www.danilpremgi.com/files/MIII.wmv
This may be what one can expect by flying 10k agl.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Myers Jr." <gmyers@corridor.net>
Yeahhhhhhhhhhh.......
http://www.danilpremgi.com/files/MIII.wmv
>Do Not Archive
George E. Myers Jr.
San Marcos Tx.
http://geohome.sytes.net
gmyers@corridor.net
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> It always comes down to the controller working the position,
.....
> I have always worked in the Southern Region of the FAA
As an ex-mil ATC type (shoot, my wife and I are both ex-mil ATC),
and having worked north, south, east, west, overseas, deployed out
to work civ ATC after the firings, etc, Richard nails it in the first line. If
I could, I would...and sometimes would even if I wasn't supposed to,
but always, always with an eye toward safety.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russkinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
on 11/13/04 10:29 AM, Richard Pike at richard@bcchapel.org wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> As a retired air traffic controller, let me chime in on this one.
> Not sure what the thinking was on the original reason for the one hour
> delay, I suspect that it was in case there was a high traffic workload in
> the sector, center radar outages, the possibility that there is someone
> enroute IFR and NORDO and center would be unable to tell them about you, etc.
>
> If memory serves me correctly (always problematic any more...) there are
> other instances in the FAR's where you can get various concessions if you
> call an hour ahead, but anyway, here is how it works in practice. It always
> comes down to the controller working the position, if that controller is
> someone who sees the job as the best means to make a lot of money for the
> least work possible, or more often, is unable to think outside the box -in
> this case the 7110, the manual for ATC- then things don't work well. But if
> you get someone who sees themselves as being there to provide pilots with
> whatever they want -safety & FAR's permitting- then you are home free.
>
> I have always worked in the Southern Region of the FAA, (and that's
> changing, the FAA is reshuffling the different regions) but it used to be
> that pilots from Up Nawth would frequently say "Youse guys down heah are
> really easy to work with compared to our guys Up Nawth." We considered that
> to be the highest possible compliment.
>
> As in any other bureaucracy, I think there are two different attitudes in
> the FAA: historically, it has always been "With coordination, anything is
> permitted except what is prohibited." With the new crop of controllers
> coming in, and historically Up Nawth, it was "Everything is prohibited
> except what is permitted."
>
> And from what I glean from Patrick, English Air Traffic Controllers learn
> their trade Up Nawth.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> do not archive
>
> At 10:20 AM 11/13/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>>
>> just call them when you are in the air. By the time you are up
>> to 10k, the hour's notice will have been passed in enjoyable flight. >>
>>
>> Hi,
>> I just love the general attitude that authority is just there to be
>> circumvented. You are a nation of natural rebels.
>> I would have assumed in my panty waisted, British way, that if an hours
>> notice is required to process an application, that whatever action is
>> proposed should be postponed for an hour to enable a decision to be made.
>> If you intend to do it anyway, why ask?
>> Is this responsible behaviour? Would denial of permission keep you out of
>> the way of a flock F-15s or a 747.
>> It could just be that there is a reason for asking for an hours notice.
>>
>> Just intrigued,
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> pj.ladd@btinternet.com
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well said, Patrick!
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kolb's Overstock Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/overstock.pdf
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 10 K Club aka Clearances |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
I've (almost) always had excellent service from Controllers when flying
IFR, but the following was humorous:
(from Ch 1, Flying Tales of The Grey Baron)
Clearance Change
Easy IFR to Atlantic City, just before The Controller Job Action. Single
engine, single radio, the single pilot is stooging along in the gloom,
thinking of the technical meeting only a few minutes ahead when the
headphones come alive with machine-gun language.
Seven-eleven-Romeo-Novembuh-New-Yoak-Center-amended-clearance. I whip
out the ballpoint and prepare to copy, right on the approach plate
because theres no time to flip a blank page. New York Center, One
Romeo November.
Romeo-Novembuh-cleared-to- (hetrodyne squeal) tic-
City-via-Luh-ah(squeal--squeal--squeal--garble)--section-climb-to-fife-thousand-repoat-leaving
(squeals) sand-squawk-zero-foah (squeal) ro. After an indecent pause I
attempt a readback, with bad results. Center fires back, Readback
incorrect-Romeo-Novembuh, and he speeds up to about twice as fast as
before; you could hear the disdain in his voice. Third time was really
fast, but few squeals.
Now I had been working in a lot of towers and centers in connection with
my job under contract with the FAA and had heard what controllers say
after they let up on the PTT switch, especially when dealing with a
dumb GA pilot. It aint complimentary, including detailed references to
your genealogy.
So when the frequency cleared a bit, I thought Id pull his chain a few
links. Politely told him to check his mic button as maybe it was
sticking after some of his recent transmissions. Center comes back, all
sweetness and worry, saying hed get it changed out right away.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
SALUTE!
Thank you to you all and those who did not come home.
----- Original Message -----
> Off subject, Delete key primed.
>
> I want to wish all the Really Old Farts who served in The Big One...and
> all the others... in our almost continuos wars...a peaceful and healthy
> Armistice Day--what we usta call it some 80+ years ago. Hard to believe
> some 1000 or more are taking the Final Flight each day.
>
> Bob N.
>
> do not archive
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
I second that...!! Well done, gentlemen... We are forever in your debt...
Beauford
Archive....!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 11/11
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> SALUTE!
>
> Thank you to you all and those who did not come home.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Off subject, Delete key primed.
>>
>> I want to wish all the Really Old Farts who served in The Big One...and
>> all the others... in our almost continuos wars...a peaceful and healthy
>> Armistice Day--what we usta call it some 80+ years ago. Hard to believe
>> some 1000 or more are taking the Final Flight each day.
>>
>> Bob N.
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I second that...!! Well done, gentlemen... We are forever in your
debt...
> Beauford
Thanks Beaford and others:
And a happy 11/11 Vet's Day to you and everyone else.
john h
hollywood casino
robinsonville, ms
hauck's holler remote
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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