---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/16/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:09 AM - Norm Labhart (Clay Stuart) 2. 05:28 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (kfackler) 3. 05:35 AM - Horrible news (Rex Rodebush) 4. 06:50 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (David Lehman) 6. 08:46 AM - Accident... (David Lehman) 7. 09:35 AM - Chris Davis (Clay Stuart) 8. 09:49 AM - Accident... (David Lehman) 9. 04:58 PM - Electret Throat Microphone (Jack & Louise Hart) 10. 06:36 PM - Re: 62" Ivoprop sale (Eugene Zimmerman) 11. 07:03 PM - Re: 62" Ivoprop sale (HShack@aol.com) 12. 07:09 PM - Re: 62" Ivoprop sale (HShack@aol.com) 13. 07:19 PM - Re: 62" Ivoprop sale (Richard Pike) 14. 08:17 PM - Re: 62" Ivoprop sale (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:10 AM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Here is the link to the newspaper article: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm Sadly, Clay Stuart ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:43 AM PST US From: "kfackler" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" May the god of their understanding remain close to the Labhart family. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news From: "Rex Rodebush" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" This is very sad news. Norm was the factory test pilot and I believe was G.M. of TNK at one time. I met him about five years ago. He was always very courteous, kind and helpful. A gentleman in every sense of the word. I had the privilege of flying with him at the fly-in this summer. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family. Rex Rodebush Time: 08:21:42 PM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed today in the crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:17 AM PST US From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Kolbers, I am really sad. This is a great loss to us kolbers. I will miss him. Tim Gherkins -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay Stuart Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Here is the link to the newspaper article: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm Sadly, Clay Stuart ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:22 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=nB44zC4T74neTM7SBwab5dbZreHFsPgD6aTHFGP8vq41SarodXv6cKNHe8CxD/lgog62oGC0B2krL+cIzORa1RnY30xNqE58CHYJMh9QM97on3jF3cQTM7hZcuVlK8RiBlQcSjdEjeNDkvbDHAkz7tGGskmvOb6mh6nvQqPtxuA= ; From: David Lehman Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman FAA Preliminary report: ******************************************************************************** ** Report created 11/16/2004 Record 1 ** ******************************************************************************** IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 83NK Make/Model: EXP Description: KLB3 EXP Date: 11/15/2004 Time: 1240 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Unknown LOCATION City: LONDON State: KY Country: US DESCRIPTION ACFT CRASHED WHILE LANDING ON A GRASS STRIP, TWO PERSONS WERE ON BOARD, ONE WAS FATALLY INJURED AND ONE WAS SERIOUSLY INJURED, LONDON, KY INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 # Crew: 2 Fat: 1 Ser: 1 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: LO2 151753Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 14/02 A3060 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown Phase: Landing Operation: General Aviation Departed: Dep Date: Dep. Time: Destination: Flt Plan: NONE Wx Briefing: U Last Radio Cont: Last Clearance: FAA FSDO: LOUISVILLE, KY (SO01) Entry date: 11/16/2004 DVD do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:51 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vccoFMhd7UjMNZBH3gtwxcWoW6V+s5jt/8uLMC9jlhCD1COxvLiK3PD+ac1MT22ENI60v7/N2k5jaHbbmvk14JpqtBd0xUrl6JTPWpkb0myJzNzcTX3gckm+cqAZD/PPCSMDUxQh1ocpurMmsmqmNREnjz06ySsXbtwMzD8oULg= ; From: David Lehman Subject: Kolb-List: Accident... --> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman Aero-News Alert: New Kolb Aircraft Owner Lost in Mk III Xtra Crash Passenger Survives, But Is Severely Injured ANN has just learned that New Kolb Aircraft CEO, Norm Labhart (48), has been lost in a Monday afternoon crash of one of his factory's aircraft. Piloting a Kolb Mk III Xtra (file photo, below) at 1240 local time, Labhart impacted the side of a hill at the Chesnut Knolls Aviation Airpark, near the Pulaski Country line, in Southern Kentucky, killing him and injuring a passenger. Witnesses told authorities that the experimentally registered aircraft was in the process of landing when it "just went down" short of the runway. Labhart was pronounced DOA shortly after being transported to Marymount Hospital in London, KY. The passenger, Chris Davis, was airlifted to the U of K Medical Center and remains hospitalized in serious condition with "multiple traumatic injuries." NTSB Investigators have been called to the site to conduct an investigation. ANN extends our condolences to Mr. Labhart's family and friends. FMI: www.kolbaircraft.com ===== DVD do not archive __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:04 AM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Chris Davis --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Here is an email from the other occupant of the Xtra with Norm. He is in Lexington with his condition upgraded somewhat. I'm guessing he was with Norm doing some transitional work. Just can't believe this happened to two experienced pilots. Clay Stuart Match: #4 Message: #37019 From: "chris davis" Subject: BRS chute wanted to buy Date: Oct 28, 2004 Kolbers, I have made a deal on a beautiful mkIII . After flying alone for 9years in my firestar I will get to share the fun ! but I need a chute [ wife's rule] so, does anyone know of a brs 1050 vls or soft pack that some one wants to almost give away? Thanks ,Chris davis , soon to be owner of Miss B ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:31 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2q29BUt0Me+XPH/Z+54iL+yWT4RSZAwL4Wb8x/YHyh5w3uuC23um+N2EaJY3XoRgdkKxfbn/XBsLUbIz3JYCDoj5cvKnOigCKrAlzTV2p/T5CpxmeAyGGL/QX2ZlxldO82eggyiCvGuR1xKghlyrqeBMP/BJ6yTcYuw8wig98wM= ; From: David Lehman Subject: Kolb-List: Accident... --> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman The FAA registration for N83NK shows Norman Labhart as the builder/manufacturer and Lighning Strike Leasing, LLC, as the owner... Airworthiness date was 04/01/04... ===== DVD do not archive __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:09 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: Electret Throat Microphone --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart FireFlyers and Kolbers, Finally! I have been able to make an electret (condenser) throat microphone to work on my hand held radio. Also, I changed to a better (more noise rejection) and less expensive throat microphone. The electret microphone requires a power source and it does not produce an output signal sufficient to drive the transmitter input. I added a pre amplifier and battled radio frequency interference that is induced when one keys the transmitter. Now that it is done it has been worth the effort. It is not an elegant solution but if you would like to see how it was done, check: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly110.html For anyone who flies in an open cockpit this is a great improvement. It completely knocks out wind, engine and propeller noise from the transmitted or recorded signal. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:28 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 62" Ivoprop sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman Thanks Bro. Pike, That sounds reasonable. I may take another look at that area before I recover and paint. We have had a 582 on a Mark II for many years with no problems. Does the Firestar have thinner walled tubing than the old twinstar Mark II which was originally designed for a 503? What diameter prop do you plan to use? I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger prop may be. The 582 has been running a 66" two blade IVO on the Twinstar well over 300hr without a problem. Gene Richard Pike wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > > We talked to some folks at the Kolb fly in, and they were not happy with a > 582 on a FSII. Seems the main root tube that the engine mounts are tied to > on the FSII is a thinner wall diameter than the ones used on the MKIII and > the Kolbra, and they were concerned with the extra horsepower doing > unexpected and rude things (like cracking the tube) in the vicinity of the > motor mounts due to the unplanned-for torque. Also the down tubes at the > rear of the cage, between the rear spar carrythrough and the boom tube, are > a thinner wall thickness than for the 65 horse aircraft. They were not > concerned with the rest of the aircraft, as long as the published speeds > and weights were observed. > > So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube > bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist > action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them > trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII > addition to my MKIII web page. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > FSII N582EF (582 Ed's Folly) > > At 11:09 PM 11/15/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman >> >> >>Hey preacher, >>What structural mods are you doing? >>I'm also planning to use a 582 on my Firestar. >> >>Gene >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:29 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 62" Ivoprop sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 11/16/2004 9:37:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com writes: I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger prop may be. And a "C" box with clutch will [has] solved that problem. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:51 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 62" Ivoprop sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 11/16/2004 12:02:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, richard@bcchapel.org writes: So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII addition to my MKIII web page. Richard Pike Richard, we would be very interested in details of your external braces, etc. [photo's>]. Chuck Reinert has maybe 10 hours on his 582/FSII with ne problems. I'd feel better if we could beef the cage a little. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:21 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 62" Ivoprop sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike I don't know about the Twinstar compared to the FSII. I didn't know there was a difference between the Firestar and the MKIII root tube until Norm pointed it out at the Fly in. That was the last time I saw Norm, he took me for a ride in the accident Xtra, let me fly it, I enjoyed it very much. Then he flew my MKIII and told me "Don't change a thing, it flies like a big Firefly." I really liked him a lot, he was a good man. We have a 2 blade 68" Ivo waiting in the box for the FSII. I think the only time we might have a problem is when taking off a rough field at full throttle, or being at full throttle in heavy turbulence, aside from that, it is probably not important. Anyway, today I finished adding the front and rear additional supports, so now it doesn't matter at all. Be glad to get done, tomorrow comes the last of the wiring. rp At 09:31 PM 11/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman > > >Thanks Bro. Pike, > >That sounds reasonable. I may take another look at that area before I >recover and paint. > >We have had a 582 on a Mark II for many years with no problems. >Does the Firestar have thinner walled tubing than the old twinstar Mark >II which was originally designed for a 503? > >What diameter prop do you plan to use? > >I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very >low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger >prop may be. >The 582 has been running a 66" two blade IVO on the Twinstar well over >300hr without a problem. > >Gene > > >Richard Pike wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > > > > We talked to some folks at the Kolb fly in, and they were not happy with a > > 582 on a FSII. Seems the main root tube that the engine mounts are tied to > > on the FSII is a thinner wall diameter than the ones used on the MKIII and > > the Kolbra, and they were concerned with the extra horsepower doing > > unexpected and rude things (like cracking the tube) in the vicinity of the > > motor mounts due to the unplanned-for torque. Also the down tubes at the > > rear of the cage, between the rear spar carrythrough and the boom tube, > are > > a thinner wall thickness than for the 65 horse aircraft. They were not > > concerned with the rest of the aircraft, as long as the published speeds > > and weights were observed. > > > > So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube > > bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist > > action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them > > trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII > > addition to my MKIII web page. > > > > Richard Pike > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > FSII N582EF (582 Ed's Folly) > > > > At 11:09 PM 11/15/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman > >> > >> > >>Hey preacher, > >>What structural mods are you doing? > >>I'm also planning to use a 582 on my Firestar. > >> > >>Gene > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:33 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 62" Ivoprop sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike OK. Tomorrow I will take a few pics and add to the webpage. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive At 10:09 PM 11/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com > >In a message dated 11/16/2004 12:02:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, >richard@bcchapel.org writes: >So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube >bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist >action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them >trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII >addition to my MKIII web page. > >Richard Pike > > >Richard, we would be very interested in details of your external braces, etc. >[photo's>]. > >Chuck Reinert has maybe 10 hours on his 582/FSII with ne problems. I'd feel >better if we could beef the cage a little. > >Howard Shackleford >FS II >SC > >