---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/17/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:44 AM - [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:33 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: Horrible news (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 5. 08:56 AM - Kolb Extra crash (ray anderson) 6. 10:21 AM - Re: Kolb Extra crash (Lee.Creech@ky.gov) 7. 10:57 AM - Re: Norm Labhart (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd) 8. 11:14 AM - Re: Kolb Extra crash (John Williamson) 9. 11:31 AM - Norm Labhart (Judy or Larry Gitt) 10. 11:57 AM - Re: Kolb Extra crash (David M. Lehman) 11. 12:07 PM - Boom tubes... (Jeremy Casey) 12. 01:11 PM - Re: Boom tubes... (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 13. 01:22 PM - Re: Norm Labhart (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 14. 03:05 PM - Re: Norm Labhart (John Cooley) 15. 03:39 PM - FSII mods for a 582 (Richard Pike) 16. 04:06 PM - Re: FSII mods for a 582 (HShack@aol.com) 17. 04:53 PM - Norm (Paul Petty) 18. 05:10 PM - Re: Boom tubes... (bryan green) 19. 10:22 PM - Re: FSII mods for a 582 (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:05 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot* receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion, is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of messages on line for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous v*ruses. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into well over 50 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 13,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 32,000,000 (yes, that's 32 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free. I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! The SSL Secure Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:24 AM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Tim, You are correct. It is a very sad day. It is a great loss to all of us kolbers. We all grieve for Norm and his family and the passenger and are praying for a complete recovery him. Please keep them in your thoughts. Take care Tim, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 > > Kolbers, > > I am really sad. This is a great loss to us kolbers. I will miss him. > > Tim Gherkins > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay Stuart > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > Here is the link to the newspaper article: > > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm > > Sadly, > Clay Stuart > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:55 AM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Horrible news --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Rex, Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. We really appreciate them as I know Norm's family does. W are printing all messages an passing them to Dana, Norm's wife. They will help comfort her in the days to come. Again thank you Rex. Take care. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex Rodebush" Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" > > This is very sad news. Norm was the factory test pilot and I believe > was G.M. of TNK at one time. I met him about five years ago. He was > always very courteous, kind and helpful. A gentleman in every sense of > the word. I had the privilege of flying with him at the fly-in this > summer. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family. > > Rex Rodebush > > Time: 08:21:42 PM PST US > From: "Clay Stuart" > Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed today in > the > crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:59 AM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Ken, Thank you very much for your message. All prayers are greatly appreciated by us and Norm's family. Again thank you. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "kfackler" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" > > May the god of their understanding remain close to the Labhart family. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:13 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=RSoj1Zt/dWfB7G4RzTQfS6qOU8tFBnCRtDfldNONf7YKuKW8gWHM1v1TKvpITpAYUZQ/q4QLj6eNuusmoGx7ThabHwKGMOVzK7SjYiKzVr/L4wPNG+U46UF7yMxWB750y/cjw7/UmrQlVpfhWnV5qTMc/x2O65ml3Sb0yIlnivA= ; From: ray anderson Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Extra crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson We may never know what really happened, but there are a number of possible scenarios when experienced pilots have this occur. There have been numerous incidents similar to this one with the same results, and it can sneak up on any of us. With two aboard, the EXTRA had a relatively high wing loading, and a modestly high stall, 41mph. At mid day, approaching over wooded areas, strange and unexpected air turbulence, wind shear, etc. is not uncommon, as we have all experienced. If approaching at near stall, even airline pilots have been caught in these conditions and were unable to recover. ( I try to keep a little extra speed when approaching for landing over wooded areas around mid day, when strange bumps start appearing. Scary!! ) In the EXTRA with a high thrust line and high wing loading, the most experienced pilot couldn't recover from wind shear. It's almost like the proverbial "act of God". A ballistic chute might have caught it if they were above 100-150 ft. I'm glad I now have one on the UltraStar. I believe the passenger had recently inquired in the Kolb list asking if anyone knows of a used one for sale, to be placed on the Kolb he is thinking of buying. Just one thought of many I'm sure will be given. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:06 AM PST US From: Lee.Creech@ky.gov Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Extra crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov Just to add my 2 cents' worth, the preliminary FAA report said that there was no wind at the nearest reporting point (London?) at the time of the accident. It was a still, cloudy day here 80 miles north; I think those conditions were general across the region. Wind shear seems fairly unlikely under these circumstances -- especially bearing in mind an experienced pilot who was very familiar with both the airplane and the strip. A power loss or other mechanical problem on final approach might be more likely. But we can only speculate. Lee in Ky Firestar II Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: ray anderson [mailto:rsanoa@yahoo.com] Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Extra crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson We may never know what really happened, but there are a number of possible scenarios when experienced pilots have this occur. There have been numerous incidents similar to this one with the same results, and it can sneak up on any of us. With two aboard, the EXTRA had a relatively high wing loading, and a modestly high stall, 41mph. At mid day, approaching over wooded areas, strange and unexpected air turbulence, wind shear, etc. is not uncommon, as we have all experienced. If approaching at near stall, even airline pilots have been caught in these conditions and were unable to recover. ( I try to keep a little extra speed when approaching for landing over wooded areas around mid day, when strange bumps start appearing. Scary!! ) In the EXTRA with a high thrust line and high wing loading, the most experienced pilot couldn't recover from wind shear. It's almost like the proverbial "act of God". A ballistic chute might have caught it if they were above 100-150 ft. I'm glad I now have one on the UltraStar. I believe the passenger had recently inquired in the Kolb list asking if anyone knows of a used one for sale, to be placed on the Kolb he is thinking of buying. Just one thought of many I'm sure will be given. --------------------------------- advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:26 AM PST US From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" All, We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls. Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy recovery for Chris. Kind Regards Mike the kiwi UK Distributor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > Here is the link to the newspaper article: > > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm > > Sadly, > Clay Stuart > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:40 AM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Extra crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Fellow Kolbers, The worst thing to do after an accident is to speculate on what went wrong in an open forum. If you must speculate, please keep it private. We may hear some facts when Chris recovers. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 699 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot Zenith CH701 Project http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:18 AM PST US From: "Judy or Larry Gitt" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Judy or Larry Gitt" Sorry, to hear the loss of one of us Kolb flyers , Maybe some one May have a picture of Norm and some History of his life to pass on to us. And Chris Davis, Get well with speed of light as im sure you wish the same. are thoughts are with you.and the family's . Larry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:51 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=OCuQyW3JPyAkjFNF3QRfHqqd4zOPngWfYX7h2vFnVv5MeVurvcrKRUao4QZHU13OG/uJzI15DssopQnippTAmFQkgZP+anWlBkrPyhZjJuHW+VcAusgnutU7iGjB0uLBegnvJPpNv4uKqJ3yqQar3GnIQLAEzT+TYgwRzlos0hY= ; From: " David M. Lehman" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Extra crash From": "\364\277\364 David M. Leh..."@matronics.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: " David M. Lehman" Good advice John... Everyone wants to help, that's a good thing, and get to the bottom of the cause ASAP to put closure to the incident... Unfortunately, sometimes it takes awhile to find a root cause and we have to be patient... DVD --- John Williamson wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" > > > Fellow Kolbers, > > The worst thing to do after an accident is to > speculate on what went wrong > in an open forum. > > If you must speculate, please keep it private. > > We may hear some facts when Chris recovers. > > > John Williamson > Arlington, TX > > Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 699 hours > http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot > Zenith CH701 Project > http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane > > do not archive > > > ===== DVD do not archive __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:44 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Casey" Subject: Kolb-List: Boom tubes... --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's, Rans S12/14, etc. Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-( Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore. 6063 would be acceptable. Jeremy Casey KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc. jeremy@kilocharlie.us ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:43 PM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Boom tubes... --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Jeremy, Since you do not want the 6063T6 that we use, all I can suggest is that you contact a metals manufacturer and ask for "Breather Quality" tubes in the 6061T6 and see if they an help you. We were told that this was the "highest quality" tubing with the least dents and scratches. We order 2000' of each size from Kaiser, through TW Metals, and we purchase the stock over a year time frame. If you cannot do this, I do not have any other suggestions. Take care Jeremy, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Casey" Subject: Kolb-List: Boom tubes... > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" > > I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there > about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's, > Rans S12/14, etc. > > Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone > a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-( > > Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore. > > 6063 would be acceptable. > > > Jeremy Casey > KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc. > jeremy@kilocharlie.us > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:38 PM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Mike, Thank you for your sympathy and caring. We are printing all messages and forwarding them to Dana, Norm's wife. I know they will help comfort her in the days ahead. Thanks so much for being with us. Take care Mike, Linda PS I talked with Donnie about your kits. Patrick's kit is crated and ready to go. Robert's kit will be picked up from powder coat tomorrow. We will try to ship on Monday, 11/29, after our Thanksgiving holiday. We will close at 12:00 noon tomorrow, Thursday and re-open on Monday for the services for Norm. Any questions before then, call Donnie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" > > All, > We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls. > Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my > sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy > recovery for Chris. > > Kind Regards > Mike the kiwi > UK Distributor > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clay Stuart" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > > > Here is the link to the newspaper article: > > > > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm > > > > Sadly, > > Clay Stuart > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:46 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Linda, Please pass on my heart felt condolences also. I have never met Norm but know from the things I have heard and read that he was a fine gentleman, father and husband. I was anticipating meeting him one day at the Kolb fly-in (maybe next year). Now that won't happen so I pray that I will meet him in Heaven one fine day. I will keep the family in my prayers. Sincerely, John Cooley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KOLB AIRCRAFT Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart --> Kolb-List message posted by: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Hi Mike, Thank you for your sympathy and caring. We are printing all messages and forwarding them to Dana, Norm's wife. I know they will help comfort her in the days ahead. Thanks so much for being with us. Take care Mike, Linda PS I talked with Donnie about your kits. Patrick's kit is crated and ready to go. Robert's kit will be picked up from powder coat tomorrow. We will try to ship on Monday, 11/29, after our Thanksgiving holiday. We will close at 12:00 noon tomorrow, Thursday and re-open on Monday for the services for Norm. Any questions before then, call Donnie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" > > All, > We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls. > Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my > sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy > recovery for Chris. > > Kind Regards > Mike the kiwi > UK Distributor > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clay Stuart" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > > > Here is the link to the newspaper article: > > > > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm > > > > Sadly, > > Clay Stuart > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:08 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: FSII mods for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike For those who asked, the pictures of the cage mods are up- http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm Scroll to the bottom of the page, click on "FSII Mods." Sorry for the terrible pictures, I had a lot to do today, and didn't take the time to roll the fuselage outside. Better pictures in a week or so when the wx improves. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) FSII N582EF (582Ed's Folly) do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:42 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FSII mods for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 11/17/2004 6:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard@bcchapel.org writes: For those who asked, the pictures of the cage mods are up- http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm Scroll to the bottom of the page, click on "FSII Mods." Got the web page; didn't see "FSII mods". Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:56 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, I would like to express our heartfelt condolences to the family of our lost buddy Norm Labhart. Norm was the first person to take me flying in a Kolb aircraft. He was so kind to pick Charley and me up from the London airport late on a Friday afternoon and get me in the air in the Mark III X-tra that I was wanting to build at the time. I could tell that Norm loved flying Kolb aircraft and on our maiden flight he said to me... " I can tell that you are a GA pilot because we head out over to the north over the highway in this terrain" Although I did not get to know him better, I feel that we was a very good pilot and very careful in his time while airborne. Charley and I both thought the world of Norm eventhough his driving scared the pants of us in that racey sports car of his!!!! Dana our hearts and prayers are with you and we are here for you.. God Bless... With Love and Respect Paul&Lynn Petty and Charley Harris Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:47 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Boom tubes... --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" You might try www.metalsupermarket.com or just get one from TNK. You will not find any cheap aluminum. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Casey" Subject: Kolb-List: Boom tubes... > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" > > I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there > about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's, > Rans S12/14, etc. > > Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone > a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-( > > Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore. > > 6063 would be acceptable. > > > Jeremy Casey > KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc. > jeremy@kilocharlie.us > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:35 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FSII mods for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike That's what happens when you get your internet service from "Cheap Joe's" and your computer from Big Lots... :~) Try it again. Hold down the "Ctrl" button and hit "refresh." Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive - hide the evidence At 07:05 PM 11/17/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com > >In a message dated 11/17/2004 6:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >richard@bcchapel.org writes: >For those who asked, the pictures of the cage mods are up- >http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm > >Scroll to the bottom of the page, click on "FSII Mods." >Got the web page; didn't see "FSII mods". > >Howard Shackleford >FS II >SC > >