---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/20/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:43 AM - vortex generators (Ted C) 2. 07:12 AM - Re: Rotax 447 on Orig FireStar (ul15rhb@juno.com) 3. 08:17 AM - What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? (Jack & Louise Hart) 4. 08:22 AM - Re: Hot Prop (W8IRQ@aol.com) 5. 10:22 AM - Re: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? (Denny Rowe) 6. 10:43 AM - Re: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? (Charlie England) 7. 11:36 AM - Re: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? (George Bass) 8. 12:18 PM - [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle) 9. 04:02 PM - Re: vortex generators (possums) 10. 04:10 PM - Re: vortex generators (John Cooley) 11. 04:37 PM - Identifying older model Kolb (jerb) 12. 04:48 PM - E box Motor mounts (Richard Pike) 13. 04:49 PM - Re: vortex generators (Larry Cottrell) 14. 04:55 PM - Re: Identifying older model Kolb (Bob N.) 15. 04:56 PM - Re: E box Motor mounts (possums) 16. 05:12 PM - Re: vortex generators (possums) 17. 05:23 PM - Re: E box Motor mounts (Richard Pike) 18. 06:32 PM - 10,000 ft MSL in an original firestar (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 19. 07:54 PM - Re: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? (Lloyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:02 AM PST US From: Ted C Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted C got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, does it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph? Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 447 on Orig FireStar From: ul15rhb@juno.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com Hi Bill, The 447 is not as smooth as the 377, but I liked the idea of more speed at less RPM. This will make the engine last longer, IF carbon buildup is kept to a minimum using synthetic oil. This is why we ran the piss out of them in the old days. Times have changed (in more ways than one) and there are new ways to eliminate the carbon without running it so high. I hated to part with that 377 after 12 years of good flying, but the 447 is proving itself reliable too. I've had it 6 years and have put 348 hours on it. It's still looks like a brand new engine on the inside without an overhaul. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 18 years flying it On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:49:58 EST WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com > > Ralph B. & Other Kolbers > > Ralph, > Thanks again for the advice to cut the wire on the tach to make it > work > properly. > > I've been flying my Original Firestar for ten and a half years now > and have > put 460 hours on it and the Rotax 377 engine. Recently I checked for > carbon and > its getting a build up, so instead of decarboning this time, I > decided to > swap for a used 447 engine I had bought several years ago. > > Wow! What a difference those extra 5 hp make. Not only does it > climb > greater (as if I really need that) but at 5000 RPM I am getting > about 60 to 65 MPH > airspeed, whereas with the 377 I was getting 50 to 55. Although the > two > engines are very similar, the 447 seems to be slightly rougher and > louder. The 377 > was a smoother, quieter, sweeter running engine. I'm still getting > used to > the difference in sound and vibes. > > Bill Varnes > Original FireStar > Audubon, NJ > > > > > > > > Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:17 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart Kolbers, My wife will be retiring after this school year. She has purchased some land east of Winchester, Indiana and is building a house there. I purchased a 100 foot wide strip of land on the back side of the property that is about 800 feet long for a landing strip. It was planted to beans which have been harvested and currently it is planted to winter wheat. What mixture of grass seed should I use to get this wheat strip converted for runway turf? I need to be broad casting the seed soon so that the frost will heave it into the ground and so that it will start coming up next spring with the winter wheat. Surely someone has already done this or knows of an information source. Your help will be appreciated. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO do not archive Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:08 AM PST US From: W8IRQ@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hot Prop --> Kolb-List message posted by: W8IRQ@aol.com For those who inquired, here is additional info. It is a model 273,3 bladed, right hand rotation, and will handle 40 to 80 HP.Additional info may be obtained at: http://www.aero-sports.com/bb/hotprop/hotprop.html ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" ----- Original Message ----- > Kolbers, > > My wife will be retiring after this school year. She has purchased some > land east of Winchester, Indiana and is building a house there. I > purchased > a 100 foot wide strip of land on the back side of the property that is > about > 800 feet long for a landing strip. It was planted to beans which have > been > harvested and currently it is planted to winter wheat. > > What mixture of grass seed should I use to get this wheat strip converted > for runway turf? I need to be broad casting the seed soon so that the > frost > will heave it into the ground and so that it will start coming up next > spring > with the winter wheat. Surely someone has already done this or knows of > an > information source. > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Jackson, MO > > do not archive > > Jack, Congratulations on the airstrip purchase! When I cleared my strip a couple years ago, I just bought bushel of Timithy hay seed from a local farmer in a feed sack, after preping the land we spread it with a hand held broadcast spreader. By the next Spring we had beutiful thick grass that has remained perfect through heavy dirt bike traffic and frequent mowings. Total seed cost was a whopping $25. My field is 550 ft by 200 ft, and growing. Tiss the wood cutting season. :-) Denny Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, Leechburg, PA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:04 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England Jack & Louise Hart wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > >Kolbers, > >My wife will be retiring after this school year. She has purchased some >land east of Winchester, Indiana and is building a house there. I purchased >a 100 foot wide strip of land on the back side of the property that is about >800 feet long for a landing strip. It was planted to beans which have been >harvested and currently it is planted to winter wheat. > >What mixture of grass seed should I use to get this wheat strip converted >for runway turf? I need to be broad casting the seed soon so that the frost >will heave it into the ground and so that it will start coming up next spring >with the winter wheat. Surely someone has already done this or knows of an >information source. > >Your help will be appreciated. > >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Jackson, MO > >do not archive > Hi Jack, I'm no expert on grass, but I can offer a little advice based on some of the stuff we went through here at Slobovia Outernational in Mississippi. Contact your state or county agricultural extension service, tell them what you want to do, & ask for a list of grasses that perform well in your area of the country. There are grasses that are excellent for runways but only grow well in certain parts of the country or in certain types of soil. We tried one of those (very expensive) breeds here without researching properly, & it 'couldn't stand the heat' here in the south. One thing to mention to the ag guy is that you'd just as soon not mow twice a week. ;-) Anything that quickly grows tall shoots will drive you crazy. We now have Bermuda grass & spray the runway once or twice a year with a herbicide called MSMA (don't ask me what the letters stand for but the ag guy should know). The MSMA kills all broadleaf grasses, leaving the Bermuda. If Bermuda will grow well in your soil & climate, I would highly recommend it since it will lower your work load in keeping it mowed. I'd also ask the ag guy about sowing the seed now instead of in the spring. I'd be worried about rain washing it away long before it gets imbedded in the soil. Our resident expert (from a farming family) here says that all grass seed really needs is for you to scratch the surface with a rake or harrow before you sow & then roll the surface with a packing roller after sowing. Just add water & you get grass. Hope this helps. Charlie ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:23 AM PST US From: "George Bass" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" Jack; One of the easiest, and most comprehensive methods of determining the seed that you'll want planted there would be to contact your local office of the nearest college. Most colleges have some kind of agricultural division & they will be able to give you more direct help than someone like me (in Arizona). In previous years, I had done this exact thing, and received more help and direction than I had ever thought possible. Good luck, Blue Skies, George Bass P. O. Box 770 Camp Verde, AZ 86322 USUA #30899 --- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:13 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, We are nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to share a few more of the really nice things members have been saying about what the Lists mean to them. Please take a minute to read over a few of the wonderful comments below and feel free to make a Contribution to support your lists as well. There are some nifty gifts to be had this year too, so hurry and sign up for your's today!! The List Contribution Web Site can be found at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution already this year! It is your generosity that keeps these Lists up and running. THANK YOU! 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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:09 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 06:42 AM 11/20/2004, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted C > >got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these >affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, >does it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph? >Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan. Hey Ted, how's that grandkid? I haven't noticed any difference in top end speed, but if it slowed me down 3 miles an hour - I probably wouldn't be able to tell. According to "Landshorter.com" ------------------ Q: Will it lower my cruise speed? A: On most sport type planes you will see NO difference in your cruise speed if you place your VG's on the "sweet spot" of the airfoil. We include all the instructions and templates you need to find this spot. ------------------- I think the "home made ones" would work just as well, but I don't like the way they look.. Here are some pictures of 88 of the "lexan" VGs on my plane. See if you notice them. They are installed about 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge. Click "view the slide show" to see all the pictures .... and I know my plane needs washing. http://possums.photosite.com/vgs/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:26 PM PST US From: "John Cooley" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" Hi Ted, I don't normally get involved in threads that I have no experience in but I see you are not getting any responses to your question. What I remember from past post on this subject is that the vortex generators have no effect on high speed flight. They seem to be more common on higher speed planes than ours which supports this in my mind. Some have said that they make the plane maneuver better and have a more solid feel in normal flight situations in addition to helping lower the stall speed. Later, John Cooley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted C Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted C got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, does it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph? Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:21 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Kolb-List: Identifying older model Kolb --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Folks, I may have an opportunity to purchase an old kit but they may be few missing a few items - yet to be determined. First I need to identify the model it is - it's an older model produced by the "Old" Kolb company, a K something. If I were to need any parts does new Kolb company support it? Unique things like formed or welded parts would be the items, replacing missing basic hardware would not be a problem. The is also a question about running a 503 on it - would it need any mods, for a 503. Is there something about 5 v/s 7 wing ribs? Thanks, jerb ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:53 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: E box Motor mounts --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Good VG pictures Possum, but what interested me even more is that you have a E box with the starter on the bottom. Can you let us see how the engine/gearbox/starter fits on the engine mounts? Some pictures of the engine and motor mounts? Thanks Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:19 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted C > > got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these > affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, > does > it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph? > Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan. > Hi, The only time I can go that fast in my Firestar is in a dive, so I couldn't answer your question, but I can speculate if that counts. :-) They improved my performance throughout the entire range of flight and maneuvers. It holds turns without falling out or better still without over turning and going too steep. I wouldn't be without them. Larry Oregon ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:20 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Identifying older model Kolb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." Jerb, There was a long thread abt 5 vs 7 rib wings. And past posts have said that TNK doesn't support older Kolbs made by Homer, unless the parts are the same. Ck the archives for more data on these. Bob N. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:34 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E box Motor mounts --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 07:47 PM 11/20/2004, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > >Good VG pictures Possum, but what interested me even more is that you have >a E box with the starter on the bottom. Can you let us see how the >engine/gearbox/starter fits on the engine mounts? Some pictures of the >engine and motor mounts? >Thanks >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) The "E" gear box or a "C" (same 3.48 ratio) creates a lot more thrust with a 3 blade prop than a "B" box ....... but mine's been modified - a lot. http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modrearframe.jpg http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/covering.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:48 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums > >Hi, > The only time I can go that fast in my Firestar is in a dive, so I >couldn't answer your question, but I can speculate if that counts. :-) They >improved my performance throughout the entire range of flight and maneuvers. >It holds turns without falling out or better still without over turning and >going too steep. I wouldn't be without them. >Larry >Oregon I agree with that too. It's amazing how far I can stick the nose up without the plane stalling. I put mine on with the double stick tape because I figured they wouldn't really work or not make enough difference to tell. Mine would fly pretty slow anyway - so when the VGs lowered my stall speed by that much, I was impressed. I used a little thicker doublestick tape than they recommend (3M black), but you couldn't pull them off with pliers. However mineral spirts will loosen the tape and dissolve the glue if I ever want to move them or take them off. I don't know how they would work on a Slingshot. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:14 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E box Motor mounts --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Got it, thanks. Richard Pike FSII N582EF Do Not Archive >The "E" gear box or a "C" (same 3.48 ratio) creates a lot more thrust with >a 3 blade prop >than a "B" box ....... but mine's been modified - a lot. > >http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modrearframe.jpg > >http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/covering.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: 10,000 ft MSL in an original firestar --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com Well Today I finally had a chance to fly again and my mission was to get to 10,000 ft MSL I watched the thermometer it started out at 25 degrees this morning and gradually climbed to 40 degrees about 11:15 I decided that if I was going to make it before it started to cool down for the evening again I had better get going so off I went to stretch my wings again and my wife asked me where I was going to fly to, and I told her I had an appointment at 10,000 ft and she thought I was nuts as usual, I dressed as if I was going ice fishing it was a nice clear day no clouds in sight and not much wind it didn't take long to get to 2000 ft but it seemed like eternity to get to 6000 and seemed like I was going no where the temp was getting colder as I climbed maintaining 50 on the ASI and 5000 on the RPM and finally I reached 8000 ft and was having thoughts of attempting another day because it was really getting colder by then, but in the back of my mind I was thinking well I am almost there stick it out a while longer and I did finally I have completed what I set out to accomplish for the day 10,000 Ft MSL Yea Ha shivering you can see the whole from up here but its to cold to hang around here to take in the wonderful view for to long so I descended back to mother earth visited a few small air strips in the neiborhood and then made my way back home and my wife said I guess you had a good time ha you looked like a speck in the sky she was out hunting sitting in her tree stand watching me climb like an eagle in the thermals I cant wait for warmer weather to go back and spend more time at that altitude and really getting a good look at everything below Thanks for the encouragement I enjoyed the idea in Maine, original Firestar Ellery Batchelder Jr. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:51 PM PST US From: Lloyd Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lloyd Hello Jack, If I were planting grass for a runway in Indiana I would plant a mixture of Timothy, Winter Rye, and KY Bluegrass. Lloyd O'Dell Jack & Louise Hart wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > >Kolbers, > >My wife will be retiring after this school year. She has purchased some >land east of Winchester, Indiana and is building a house there. I purchased >a 100 foot wide strip of land on the back side of the property that is about >800 feet long for a landing strip. It was planted to beans which have been >harvested and currently it is planted to winter wheat. > >What mixture of grass seed should I use to get this wheat strip converted >for runway turf? I need to be broad casting the seed soon so that the frost >will heave it into the ground and so that it will start coming up next spring >with the winter wheat. Surely someone has already done this or knows of an >information source. > >Your help will be appreciated. > >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Jackson, MO > >do not archive > > >Jack & Louise Hart >jbhart@ldd.net > > > >