Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - The LOC... (Matt Dralle)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: differential brakes and fuel (Giovanni Day)
3. 07:10 AM - tanks (robert bean)
4. 07:34 AM - Re: differential brakes and fuel (Richard Pike)
5. 12:07 PM - Re: differential brakes and fuel (Giovanni Day)
6. 12:26 PM - Re: differential brakes and fuel (robert bean)
7. 12:41 PM - tnk (robert bean)
8. 01:14 PM - Re: tnk (John Hauck)
9. 01:16 PM - group-buy on poly tanks (Jim Gerken)
10. 01:21 PM - Re: vortex generators (Ben Ransom)
11. 01:28 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (John Hauck)
12. 01:30 PM - Re: Firestar For Sale (woody)
13. 01:30 PM - Re: London strip (woody)
14. 01:37 PM - Re: FireFly Flight Milestone (John Hauck)
15. 01:41 PM - Re: vortex generators (PATRICK LADD)
16. 01:45 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (John Hauck)
17. 02:03 PM - tankage (PATRICK LADD)
18. 02:10 PM - apologies (PATRICK LADD)
19. 02:11 PM - Re: group-buy on poly tanks (Giovanni Day)
20. 02:36 PM - Ten Gallon Tanks (Vic)
21. 02:36 PM - Differential Braking (Vic)
22. 02:46 PM - Re: vortex generators (Richard Pike)
23. 02:55 PM - Re: group-buy on poly tanks (Richard Pike)
24. 03:01 PM - Re: vortex generators (possums)
25. 03:02 PM - Re: group-buy on poly tanks (Jerry Curtin)
26. 03:03 PM - Re: Ten Gallon Tanks (Giovanni Day)
27. 04:38 PM - Re: Differential Braking (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
28. 04:38 PM - Re: Ten Gallon Tanks (kfackler)
29. 05:08 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Pike)
30. 05:44 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Pike)
31. 05:44 PM - Ultrastar for sale (terry)
32. 06:17 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (John Hauck)
33. 07:08 PM - 5 Rib Firestar Wings (Ken korenek)
34. 08:14 PM - Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings (Chuck Riley)
35. 08:32 PM - Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings (Ken korenek)
36. 08:55 PM - Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings (Chuck Riley)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st
I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support
the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a
minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at
least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a building/flying/recreating
tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a
newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to
support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure
Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support
that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a
little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the
love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | differential brakes and fuel |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Herb et. al.,
The titan is a special made tank and not a chemical tank. At least it
has no handle and a real filler cap. The original 10gal tank on the
"ranger" was 12x12x15 and may work with minimal modification. I may have
the name wrong.
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Three days of IFR weather so still 36.4 hours
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
herbgh@juno.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: differential brakes and fuel
--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Giovanni
I do not yet know what my range is in the Firfly. I would like to
fly 120 miles one way. Rough River State EAA flyin is about 90 odd
miles , the BUG flyin at Bardstown is about 94. LeeLand Stantons flyin
is 100 plus at Nancy Ky. I would also like to fly to the Kolb Factory .
My thought is to add a tank behind the current one if CG considerations
allow. Other wise a taller tank in place of the current one . I suspect
that the 10 gal challenger and titan tanks are off the shelf items?
Herb
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
(string title change)
Early in the construction of my MkIII I went through all the sources,
boat tanks,
race car tanks, etc. I think the 19 gal plastic boat tank once offered
by kolb is
still being sold somewhere. Finally threw in the towel because of too
many
other things to worry about. The twin plastic jugs won out.
The pluses: very available, easy to remove for access, can run one only
for
local flights, no gage necessary, easy to pipe up, no problems with
sloshing.
the minuses: doesn't look "airplaney", not a great location for
flammable liquid
when I hit an obstruction.
I don't like drilling holes in the bottom so put in dip tubes. The
vent fitting
in the cap swivels so I can leave the hose on when I unscrew it for
filling.
-Since this design is a generic, several manufacturers have made them so
even though they look the same they vary by wall thickness and cap
thread pitch (annoying, eh?)
The little suzuki burns between 2, 2 1/2 gph so capacity is just right
for me.
-BB do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | differential brakes and fuel |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I have 15 gallon capacity in the MKIII, and for my uses, mostly local with
an occasional 100 mile cross country, it is about right. It is almost
impossible to tell the difference between flying with it full and with it
half full.
The tanks are made out of fiberglass and the header tank has a sump drain
in the very bottom, however I have yet to get any water out of it. Is it
possible that Fiberglass does not produce condensate like aluminum does?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:29 PM 11/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Herb et. al.,
>
> I have spoke to a guy the other day who organized a group of ranger
>owner to have a blow molded tank to their liking make. They split the
>cost of the mold and every one got a tank with the feature they wanted
>for a fair price. Seems to me that if we wanted, we could do the same.
>IMHO the 10 gallons on my MKIII are enough as long as I am flying around
>the county. Problem is when I want to go XC. I have not done this but
>will next summer. Do you plan on any XC in your FF? What is your range
>now? What would you be willing to pay for added capacity? One added
>issue to added capacity is fuel contamination of water. If you have a
>larger tank you will need to keep them full to prevent condensation.
>This means your fuel is more likely to go bad if you do not fly enough
>each week. This also means flying around with more wt. than is needed
>when not going XC. I personal like having smaller tanks for local flying
>but would like to have some sort of replacement tank for XC.
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>36.4 hours
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>herbgh@juno.com
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: differential brakes and fuel
>
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
>
>Group
>
> Wonder why we cannot prevail on TNK to offer a single 10gal tank.
>Surely they kow where to buy it? Their 5 gal was less than 20 dollars a
>couple of years ago. 10 gal would be in the 20's by that measure. I
>have a 9 gal that I want to use on the Firefly but it is too large to
>fit and I do not want to do any cutting. Herb
>
>do not archive
>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:14:00 -0600 jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> writes:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
> >
> > At 01:05 PM 11/21/04 -0500, you wrote:
> > >"Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Bob, sent this to you direct.
> > You can get a nice light weight 10 Gallon Poly tank from Quad
> > Aircraft,
> > manufacturer of the Challenger. If I recall right it cost me $104
> > plus
> > shipping.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | differential brakes and fuel |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Richard,
"Is it possible that Fiberglass does not produce condensate like
aluminum does?"
Very good question. Seems that the thermal properties of plastic
will be different than al. I wonder if we could ask Jack to perform a
test on the subject. Maybe weigh two container with equal surface area
and then reweigh after a week or so of sitting outside. I know a physics
prof. who flies, so maybe if Jack doesn't have time I could get him to
help me with it. I am finishing a BSN degree in December, maybe I will
do a masters in physics and make this my thesis project. NOT! Better yet
maybe someone on the list has the answer?
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Waiting for the dew point drop another 2.5 degrees below the temp so I
can fly again.
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: differential brakes and fuel |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
On 22, Nov 2004, at 3:07 PM, Giovanni Day wrote:
>
> "Is it possible that Fiberglass does not produce condensate like
> aluminum does?"
>
> The thermal conductivity of fiberglass is lower than most metals but
the rate of change shouldn't be a factor. Aside from the moisture
content
already present in the gas the remaining variable is water from
replacement
air. -too much and the fuel reaches saturation and water condenses out.
If you keep the tanks close to full then less air is admitted.
Most of the problems I've witnessed were from aircraft parked outside,
eventually those flown least frequently gathered the most sump water.
Parking under cover saves more than paint and fabric.
Some investigation needs to be done on which refineries stick ethanol
in their gas and how much.
-BB do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Has anyone heard how Norm's passenger is doing?
do not archive
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi BB/Gang:
I got home a couple hours ago. Departed London, KY, about dark Friday
afternoon, after having a suprise dinner with List Member Wil Uribe.
Was good to see Wil and catch up on old and new times a bit. Looking
forward, both of us, already, for next year's UnPlanned/UnOrganized
Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah.
The latest info I have on Chris Davis was from Bruce Chesnut. It was
valid as of Thur evening. Chris had been upgraded from critical to
serious and was not conscious. I know that is old news, but that is
the best I have as of now. If I find out anything new, I will post it
to the Kolb List post haste.
The trip to London was sad but also rewarding. I gave me a chance to
share my sorrow with friends and family, and make closure with Norm.
I have no further information on the accident. Speculation would be
futile and unfair. I don't intend to try to figure out what went
wrong.
From top to bottom, TNK personnel are taking Norm's loss very hard.
Bruce announced at a get together Friday, his first reaction after
Norm's accident, was to plow up the air strip. Then after some
thought, decided that was not the right thing to do. Instead, he is
naming the air strip LABHART FIELD, in honor of Norm. Chesnut Knolls
Aviation Foundation will remain the same. Future sectionals will
indicate the air strip at CKAF as LABHART FIELD.
Good to be home. I am still buzzing from being on the road for so
long behind the old Cummins Diesel. The highways are crowded and a
hostile environment to try and survive in. I prefer to fly my little
Kolb MKIIIc, rather than dice it out with a bunch of novice NASCAR
drivers that have no respect of a truck and 5th wheel. :-)
Time to get ready for Thanksgiving. Need to go check on my bird.
Weather in not conducive to flying at the present time. Haven't
looked at the weather to see when I can get my dose of aviating.
Take care,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 9
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| Subject: | group-buy on poly tanks |
11/22/2004 03:16:35 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock MKiii,
and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either way
would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know if
they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
some experiments.
Jim Gerken
Message 10
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=W5ZTgAgtXjgtenZfoC1I8nm60eHIrDcndmGYKWE+Ap26BuqY6XDMOUj7kzRCeNMtF3Ky4g0S+uNsIRIzQUhgoRm8M0qqQgViD/7JPgd8ovukshmVQcJQQQ2AfoEpiZg0GofQRUjS31v70yFaazxMzguTTRPCJtyjhMwgWluZZqc=
;
| Subject: | vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Hi all,
First off, I got a heads up from Rusty on the terrible news of the
crash and loss at TNK. This is real hard news to hear.
I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
placed them 11" back from LE. I also used carpet dbl stick tape, and
after the one and only 30 min test flight at least 2 VGs had chosen an
early departure from the flight. :)
What I may have done wrong:
I decided to put a coat of car wax on my wings before putting on the
VGs, because a) this was maybe 6 months after completion of rebuild and
the wings had never been washed or waxed, and b) one must work around
VGs when washing/waxing. Anyway, I suppose this was part of the easily
departing vgs. Note-- standard polytone/stits covering.
From other's experience, I probably didn't put enf VGs on to get an
effect. Guessing back, I'd say the spacing was about 12" between them.
Someday I'll give it another whirl, but I find my Kolb time is usually
"i wanna go fly", as my build/tinker time is already pretty taken by my
other project.
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
off the
| ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
|
Hi Mike/Gang:
6 mph stall reduction is a significant amount.
Is that 6 mph reduction gained while clean or with full flaperons? at
altitude or in ground effect? two up or solo?
How much quicker does the old MKIIIx levitate with the VG's?
In what way is the flare made "much better"?
What do the VG's do to the normal stall characteristics of the Kolb
wing?
I am interested in VG's, although I do not see a place for them on my
antiquated MKIIIc. Recently, while flying solo with 15 gal fuel on
board, my MKIIIc was stalling between 30 and 35 mph in ground effect
at 410 feet ASL.
Immediately, some of you automatically decide I am "against" the use
of VG's because I ask questions about them, and state I do not intend
to use them. Please do not prejudge my interests in what makes them
work and how they will improve or degrade safety and performance of
our Kolb airplanes. Just trying to learn. I understand Mike the Kiwi
has done exhaustive study and tests in order to pass British "FAA"
folks to certify the MKIIIx in Great Britain. Hopefully, he can pass
some of this information along to us on the other side of the pond.
Take care,
john h
MKIIIc (M3-011)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Where is he located? I have an old Twinstar that could be part of a swap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar For Sale
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
<pelletier@cableone.net>
>
> Guys,
>
> I have a friend who has a Kolb Firestar and a Mini-Max for sale. His
wife wants to fly and he's gonna get something with two seats - I think a
Kitfox. Ennerway, he's promised me a steak dinner if I can find him a buyer
for both, or a Big Mac if I can only find him a buyer for one. Details are
below:
>
> 1989 Firestar, approximately 100 flight hours, Stits covering, standard
instruments with dual EGT and CHT, Brakes, Rotax 377 with balance kit, 83
hours since overhaul, Powerfin Prop plus an extra IVO prop, $5,800.
(Trailer Avilable)
>
> 1996 Mini-Max 1100R Standard instruments with dual EGT & CHT, Brakes,
Curved windshield, Fiberglass head rest, Rotax 377, Tennessee Propeller
(60-34) $2,100. Would consider selling less engine and propeller. Cover
needs to be removed, inspected and recovered.
>
> Contact Ben at bhmram@c2i2.com or call at 520 803-0630
>
> C'MON SOMEBODY, BUY THE PLANES - I NEED THE STEAK DINNER!!!
>
> AzDave
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: London strip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
I first f lew at London with John and Mspfer. There is an optical
delusion as you come in where the side of the hill looks like a flat part of
the runway. Surprised me but would not affect a regular user of the strip
----- Original Message -----
From: <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: London strip
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ul15rhb@juno.com" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
>
>
> I have learned that TNK's London KY strip is on plateau and a few feet
before the threshold drops off down a hill. Is this true?
>
> While landing at that end, if there isn't sufficient altitude to make the
strip, it looks like the side of a hill (before the threshold) is the only
choice. Is this true?
>
> One would think that anyone flying out of a strip like this would always
have enough altitude to make it, then slip it in as a general practice.
>
> Is there is an alternate choice for a pilot if the threshold isn't made
instead of going into the side of that hill or the trees?
>
> There would be a strong desire to "stretch the glide" should the engine
want to quit when the throttle is closed.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Flight Milestone |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
FireFly has
| passed the 500th take off and landing. On average it has flown
about two
| times per week since the first flight.
|
| It is still great fun.
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Gang:
Congratulations!
Make sure you keep the take off and landing column equal.
Sounds like you are flying the wings off the little FF.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
G`day Mick,
If the two Kolbs are to be in the UK by mid December, the date which you
suggested to Mike Handley, they should be about to be put on a boat by now.
Or already on. Is there any news?
Is there anything which I should be looking to purchase at Telford?. I
shall be there on Saturday. Instruments, Intercoms/radio etc., They often
have special offers of which I should take advantage.
I am going to Sun `n ` fun in April. Anything I should wait until then to
purchase?
How are approvals going? Vortex Generators, bigger tanks, Jabiru engine
etc., I am still aiming for a flying machine up and running by Easter.
Sad news about the Kolb pilot killing himself and putting his passenger in
hospital. Probably turn out to be a heart attack or something rather than an
aircraft fault, but to take this to a personal and detached level, is this
going to affect the despatch dates of the kits?
See you Saturday at Telford but I would like some comments before then..
Cheers
Pat
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
They work fantastic on fabric covered wings.
|
| In fact I just recently got a report from a fellow that did very
accurate takeoff-distance tests and after installing my VGs he
consistently got 25% - 30% shorter takeoffs.
|
| Joa
Joa/Gang:
That is an amazing improvement. Any better and he would be hovering.
;-)
What kind of aircraft are we talking about?
If it is not a Kolb aircraft, how does it compare to our Kolbs'
performance?
Do you have any other information about this test other than
"fantastic" results?
Take care,
john h
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi, this all reminds me of a story.
My Challenger is pretty thirsty, 16 litres per hour. Once when flying some distance
with my 10 US Gall tanks I took a spare 25 litre tank on the back seat. I
have no side filler to the tank so I have to use a pump, which I also have to
take with me. Sitting on my spare tank pumping away a couple wandered up and
said that they dont see many Challengers in England, but there were a lot in Florida
where they had lived for some time. Further conversation followed and it
turned out that they knew a guy with whom I had stayed near Lake Wales sevetral
years before when I wanted to fly an amphibian for which this chap was the
dealer. Not only that but they had the guy staying with them in the UK only the
weekend before.
Another coincidence. Many years ago I diverted while on holiday in France to visit
the factory and to fly an amphibian biplane called a `Petrel`. it was quite
an experience, dropping down onto the waters of the Gulf de Morbihan and then
landing on the airfield at Vannes/Mucon.
Visiting Sun `n `Fun a couple of years later I was having a drink in the bar of
the hotel while waiting for a table for dinner. The guy drinking next to me was
the pilot of the Petrel who had flown with me in France. Small aviating world,
aint it?
Pat
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi everyone,
sorry that my last post about kit deliveries was anadvertently sent to the list
instead of to Kiwimick personally.
This list works the opposite way round to other lists which I am on and hitting
`reply` goes to the whole list instead of the individual.
Sorry
Pat
Message 19
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| Subject: | group-buy on poly tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Jim,
I ran across another experimental group who had done this. I do
not know the particulars but have contact info and will check into it. I
do remember the other project ended up with a 22 gal tank. If we had
enough interest we might also get TNK involved. I would think if we
could get enough orders together, it would be a no brainer. Even more so
if the design would work for more than the MKIIIC and extra. I would be
willing to spear head such a project and collaborate on a design if
there is enough interest. I could even put up a web site for the
project. Those on the list just need to let me know.
So lets make it official. Any MKIII owner interested in
investing in such a project say "I". Also, if it were possible to make a
tank/s that could serve other Kolb owners also, signify your interest by
stating "I" and your model. At this point cost is impossible to
calculate so I am just looking for interested owners who do have a need
for more fuel on board.
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gerken
Subject: Kolb-List: group-buy on poly tanks
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks,
but, GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a
stock MKiii, and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or
two, either way would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly
tank molding business so we might understand the costs per tank and the
mold cost to split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have
two 7.5 gallon tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but
taller. I don't know if
they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
some experiments.
Jim Gerken
Message 20
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| Subject: | Ten Gallon Tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicw@vcn.com>
On my Firstar I have two tandem 5 gallon tanks. I have them plumbed so that
the rear tank empties first and when it is empty, the front tank supplies
the gas. This way, if I want to take a short trip, I just fill the front
tank. If I want to take a long trip I fill both tanks. Also by having the
rear tank empty completely before using gas from the front tank, the center
of gravity moves closer to the center as the gas is used up.
I believe the tanks in the MK II are side-by-side so I don't know if the
special plumbing would be an advantage on the MK II.
Vic
Message 21
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| Subject: | Differential Braking |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicw@vcn.com>
I mounted two brake handles on my control stick in an attempt to have
differential braking. I used bicycle brake parts and some home-made parts
to make the handles. I have drum brakes but the drum brakes are "a false
sense of security". I am in the process of building a set of disk brakes to
replace the drums. Hope to have them installed this week. The disk brakes
will same me 12 pounds.
Without a break-away tail wheel, I am not sure the differential braking is
worth the trouble but I may find the disk brakes are effective enough to
assist in turning the Kolb. Right now I need a Wal-Mart parking lot to do a
180.
If anybody else is working on disk brakes, I would like to exchange ideas.
Vic
Message 22
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| Subject: | vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I tried them at first with 11 per wing and they didn't do much.
Once I loaded it up with one per rib/false rib I got great results.
They might do better in the valleys, but they do work great atop the ribs.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 01:21 PM 11/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi all,
>First off, I got a heads up from Rusty on the terrible news of the
>crash and loss at TNK. This is real hard news to hear.
>
>I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
>unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
>FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
>that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
>
>I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
>used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
>rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
>placed them 11" back from LE. I also used carpet dbl stick tape, and
>after the one and only 30 min test flight at least 2 VGs had chosen an
>early departure from the flight. :)
>
>What I may have done wrong:
>I decided to put a coat of car wax on my wings before putting on the
>VGs, because a) this was maybe 6 months after completion of rebuild and
>the wings had never been washed or waxed, and b) one must work around
>VGs when washing/waxing. Anyway, I suppose this was part of the easily
>departing vgs. Note-- standard polytone/stits covering.
>
> >From other's experience, I probably didn't put enf VGs on to get an
>effect. Guessing back, I'd say the spacing was about 12" between them.
> Someday I'll give it another whirl, but I find my Kolb time is usually
>"i wanna go fly", as my build/tinker time is already pretty taken by my
>other project.
>
>=====
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: group-buy on poly tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
With just a few minor mods, (welded a couple small steel tube braces in the
tank area) I was able to fit in two 6 gallon red outboard boat tanks like
Wal Mart sells. And since they were in at an angle, each held about 6.5 -
6.7gallons.
I went to the present system having 15 gallons more to increase baggage
space than to have extra fuel.
Anyway, the 13 gallon capacity was about enough for most things.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 03:16 PM 11/22/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>
>Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
>GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock MKiii,
>and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either way
>would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
>business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
>split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
>tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know if
>they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
>some experiments.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 04:21 PM 11/22/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
>
>I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
>unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
>FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
>that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
>
>I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
>used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
>rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
>placed them 11" back from LE.
-----------------------------------------------
From www.landshorter.com
Q: It's obvious that all those little "wings" must add some drag, why
don't they slow you down?
A: Good question. Without going into too much crazy aerodynamic theory
just visualize how the little micro VG spins the air and keeps it
"attached" to the airfoil. Along the aft portion of the airfoil the air is
turbulent and causes drag. By keeping the air attached the turbulent flow
at the aft portion of the wing is thinned and offsets the drag caused by
the VG itself.
Now here's the scoop: any nasty rumors you may have heard about VG's
slowing you down a few mph was probably the result of the user placing the
VG's too far forward on the airfoil. You will see a lot of installations
where the VG's are way up front. In our experience (and a lot of others
too) you want to keep them back a little ways (usually around 10% of chord)
so you won't reduce your cruise speed.
The design of the VG is also extremely important for reducing drag- our
VG's are just the right size and shape to provide optimum performance with
the minimal amount of drag. This is based on thorough wind tunnel testing
as well as considerable "field experience" from happy users.
----------------------------------------------
The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the
ailerons)
back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise
speed, too far back and they become ineffective.
I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured
through the middle of the cord of the wing.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: group-buy on poly tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry Curtin" <jcurtin@cableone.net>
Hello all, If you look in sport pilot issue for April, on page 31 it shows
two 13.5 gallon tanks that are in the Ikarus C42. It also names the US
supplier. These tanks look as if they would fit it the Kolbs with no
problem. They may be able to be bought separately through the US
distributor. Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: group-buy on poly tanks
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>
> Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
> GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock
MKiii,
> and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either
way
> would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
> business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
> split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
> tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know
if
> they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
> some experiments.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Ten Gallon Tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Vic,
How is your plumbing arranged? Do you have to turn a valve?
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic
Subject: Kolb-List: Ten Gallon Tanks
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicw@vcn.com>
On my Firstar I have two tandem 5 gallon tanks. I have them plumbed so
that the rear tank empties first and when it is empty, the front tank
supplies the gas. This way, if I want to take a short trip, I just fill
the front tank. If I want to take a long trip I fill both tanks. Also
by having the rear tank empty completely before using gas from the front
tank, the center of gravity moves closer to the center as the gas is
used up.
I believe the tanks in the MK II are side-by-side so I don't know if the
special plumbing would be an advantage on the MK II.
Vic
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Braking |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Yo Vic,
Hope to be seeing you soon. Anyway, in answer to your comment, my
differential braking system worked real well on my Firestar. In fact, it
probably worked a bit too well because I was 'skidding' the tail wheel
around. I didn't worry about it too much since I was skidding on dirt, but
the wheel rigging (for lack of a better word) broke - couldn't stand the
side stresses. I ordered a new one from Kolb and welded a gusset at the
stress point. Didn't have any more problems.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic" <vicw@vcn.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Differential Braking
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicw@vcn.com>
>
> I mounted two brake handles on my control stick in an attempt to have
> differential braking. I used bicycle brake parts and some home-made parts
> to make the handles. I have drum brakes but the drum brakes are "a false
> sense of security". I am in the process of building a set of disk brakes
> to
> replace the drums. Hope to have them installed this week. The disk
> brakes
> will same me 12 pounds.
>
> Without a break-away tail wheel, I am not sure the differential braking
> is
> worth the trouble but I may find the disk brakes are effective enough to
> assist in turning the Kolb. Right now I need a Wal-Mart parking lot to do
> a
> 180.
>
> If anybody else is working on disk brakes, I would like to exchange ideas.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Ten Gallon Tanks |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
> I believe the tanks in the MK II are side-by-side so I don't know if the
> special plumbing would be an advantage on the MK II.
They are side-by-side, and at least in my case, they are cross-connected so
that they empty evenly.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Since it sounds like Mike's experiences might parallel my own, I will throw
in my .02$ worth.
At 03:29 PM 11/22/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get
>off the
>| ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
>|
> | Mike the Kiwi.
>
>Hi Mike/Gang:
>
>6 mph stall reduction is a significant amount.
>
>Is that 6 mph reduction gained while clean or with full flaperons? at
>altitude or in ground effect? two up or solo?
In 20P's case, both. Indicated airspeed at stall went from 26 indicated to
20 - 21 indicated, actual was more like from 32 to 26 - 28, about 5 mph
reduction.
Full flaps or clean, the only difference is the deck angle relative to the
horizon when it breaks.
Solo you can land slower than before - no exact numbers, the airspeed
indicator is falling constantly, but it is slower. With two up you run out
of elevator authority when you try to land really slow, there is not enough
air flowing over the tail to hold the nose up.
Norm flew my airplane for about 20 minutes at the Kolb fly in, mostly in
the slow flight mode. His analysis was that it flew better slower, stalled
slower, but had a cleaner break when it did let go. He said he really
liked the way it flew in slow flight, he said it felt very comfortable. I
mentioned to him that trying to land at minimum speed with a passenger, it
ran out of elevator authority, and he asked me what speeds I was
indicating. I told him that before the vg's I used 55 as a minimum approach
speed, but now I could do 45 solo, and could also land at 45 two up, but
that the elevators would no longer raise the nose to flare. Part of what I
was asking him was his opinion of getting an improvement in elevator
authority by modifying the tail with vg's on the stab underside, gap
sealing the stab to the elevator, etc.
His reply? "Leave it alone and quit trying to land it so slow."
Good advice. I decided to take it and go on.
As far as landing in ground effect, since I have the stock length main
gear, it is now very easy to start dragging the tail wheel when the mains
are still in the air. With Miss P'Fers longer legs, she might not do that.
>How much quicker does the old MKIIIx levitate with the VG's?
It comes off the ground good now, but it came off the ground good before. I
can't tell much difference. However, at very steep angles of climb the
airplane feels more solid. Very subjective, but also very noticeable.
>In what way is the flare made "much better"?
I can't tell that the flare is any better at all, just that it will land
slower.
>What do the VG's do to the normal stall characteristics of the Kolb wing?
I spent about an hour feeling it out after I added the vg's, here are my
impressions-
With partial (5000 rpm) power:
With or without flaps, it will hang in there longer, you get a steeper deck
angle, and then the break is a bit cleaner or sharper. Recovery seems no
different than a Cessna 152, 172, or Piper, very ordinary. In a turn, once
again you can hold a steeper deck angle, but normal when it lets go, feels
like you would expect it to feel. No unusual or different traits noted
either straight ahead or accelerated than from how it was before.
With power off:
No flaps, it seems very much like before, except a bit cleaner when it lets
go. Still not as sharp as a Cessna, more like a fat wing Piper, but
gentler. Stalling in a turn does not tend to drop a wing. Have not tried
any really steep turn stalls, guess I ought to.
With flaps, it seems to hang in there forever, finally you get a nibble
around 20 -21 indicated, then it seems to go into parachute mode for a bit
- at this point the airspeed indicator has quit decreasing, but you can
hear the airspeed decreasing as it flows around the airframe, and you can
tell the airplane is slowing down. Simultaneously, the aft pressure
required to hold the stick back goes away, it is almost like someone is
trying to lift the elevators up for you. I suspect that the airplane is
starting to parachute in a level attitude, no stall break yet, but
developing a high rate of sink. If you hold the stick steady in the same
place, the nose starts to raise a few degrees. Within a second or two after
this you get a good clean break, the nose will fall through about 15 or 20
degrees. If you release back pressure, it will recover at once. At the
point just before the stall break where the nose starts to raise a bit and
the pressure on the stick changes - if you ease the stick a hair forward,
it sort of hangs there, you can tell it is right on the edge, sinking like
a stone, but not yet breaking. If you push the stick further forward or
add power, it returns to normal flight.
If you are turning and stall with flaps, it does not tend to drop off on a
wing. Have not tried it in a really steep turn stall, guess I ought to.
>I am interested in VG's, although I do not see a place for them on my
>antiquated MKIIIc. Recently, while flying solo with 15 gal fuel on
>board, my MKIIIc was stalling between 30 and 35 mph in ground effect
>at 410 feet ASL.
>
>Immediately, some of you automatically decide I am "against" the use
>of VG's because I ask questions about them, and state I do not intend
>to use them. Please do not prejudge my interests in what makes them
>work and how they will improve or degrade safety and performance of
>our Kolb airplanes. Just trying to learn. I understand Mike the Kiwi
>has done exhaustive study and tests in order to pass British "FAA"
>folks to certify the MKIIIx in Great Britain. Hopefully, he can pass
>some of this information along to us on the other side of the pond.
John, after all the mods you have done to Miss P'Fer, anybody can see that
you are not against trying anything. But I understand your attitude, why
try something that might not work, and might just bite you? Or maybe - if
it ain't broke, prove to me why I should fix it?
>Take care,
>
>john h
>MKIIIc (M3-011)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
At 08:05 PM 11/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> >In what way is the flare made "much better"?
>
>I can't tell that the flare is any better at all, just that it will land
>slower.
Thinking about this some more, I had forgotten that before the vg's, if you
got too slow and tried to flare, sometimes the MKIII would mush through the
flare like the wing wasn't biting. You flare, and it sort of falls on
through. Not any more. I guess if I flared too high, it would fall through
eventually, but the mush out through the flare that it sometimes it had
before the vg's is gone.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Ultrastar for sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
I have a friend that is selling his UltraStar after many good years of flying it.
He recently acquired a FireStar II
and can't fly both. He still loves the way his UltraStar flies, but wanted the
extra room and seating capacity of the
FireStar II
UltraStar with 1400 TT hr.'s., 2SI engine with 140 hr.'s. with 2SI belt drive,
3 blade IVO prop, nose pod, tundra
tires, strobe, BRS, Airspeed, VSI, CHT, EGT & Tack Asking $4500 OBO. Wilmer Zimmerman,
Lancaster County, PA
Phone: (717) 354-9351
Terry - FireFly # 95
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
vg's, if you
| got too slow and tried to flare, sometimes the MKIII would mush
through the
| flare like the wing wasn't biting. You flare, and it sort of falls
on
| through. Not any more. I guess if I flared too high, it would fall
through
| eventually, but the mush out through the flare that it sometimes it
had
| before the vg's is gone.
| Richard Pike
| MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Richard/Gang:
With or without VG's, mush/stall is the same thing in ground effect or
out of it, for that matter. Would depend on airspeed, loading, temp,
etc. Would it not? Once the wing quits flying, it is going to head
south. Course, I can not comment on what one does with VG's because I
have never flown a Kolb equipped with them.
What always amazes me is the difference in perception between stalling
a Kolb at 1,000 feet agl and 100 feet agl. Either altitude they stall
the same, but the perception at the higher altitude is that the
aircraft is falling very slowly and recovers instantly.
Get into a full stall in a Kolb at 100 feet and it is falling fast and
may or may not recover.
I am pretty much satisfied with the performance of what I fly. A lot
of mods have been done to my MKIII, but none that affect any of the
control or flying surfaces, other than reduction of aileron and flap
cord, and lowering of the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizers.
Most of my mods were made to give me a better shot at accomplishing a
flight around the country and up to Alaska in 1994, e.g., more fuel
capacity, different seats, changing main gear, dual controls (first
ever in a Kolb), 912 (first installed on a Kolb), parachute in the
center section, and a lot of little structural changes to increase
strength and crash survivability (a lot of these changes are included
in the aircraft you all are now flying). I have never messed with
Homer's wing, air foil, etc. Don't feel I need to. If I can get
touch down speed close to 30 mph, I think I can crash successfully and
walk away. For sure, have a good chance to ground loop if I am going
to run into a wall or building, rock or some other hard object.
I think the little bit of flying I did in the factory FS II is pretty
indicative of how well these aircraft fly in their standard
configuration. I did not experience any adverse flight
characteristics despite the heavy bending of that little airplane.
Flew like a well behaved Kolb should.
Take care,
john h
john h
Message 33
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| Subject: | 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
Kolbers:
I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
condition. yellow.
They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
wings out of there.
I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
Last call.
This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
Somebody come get 'em!
Ken Korenek
817-657-6500 daily
817-483-8054 home
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Riley" <riley.nancy@comcast.net>
What part of the country are you located.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek@comcast.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>
> Kolbers:
>
> I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
> flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
> Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
> condition. yellow.
>
> They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
>
> The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
> wings out of there.
>
> I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
> I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
>
> Last call.
>
> This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
>
> Somebody come get 'em!
>
> Ken Korenek
> 817-657-6500 daily
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
I'd like $1000 for 'em, but I'd settle for $750 in green money. you
pick 'em up.
I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of north Texas.
Call me and we can talk.
Ken Korenek
817-483-8054 home
817-657-6500 cell
Chuck Riley wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Riley" <riley.nancy@comcast.net>
>
>What part of the country are you located.
>Chuck
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>>
>>Kolbers:
>>
>>I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
>>flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
>>Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
>>condition. yellow.
>>
>>They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
>>
>>The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
>>wings out of there.
>>
>>I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
>>I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
>>
>>Last call.
>>
>>This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
>>
>>Somebody come get 'em!
>>
>>Ken Korenek
>>817-657-6500 daily
>>817-483-8054 home
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Riley" <riley.nancy@comcast.net>
Ken thanks for the quick reply. However I'm way out here in California. I
see you're taking delivery of a Titan 2-S. If you will be considering the
spring nose gear mod I have several in stock. I build the Panos spring nose
gear now. Thanks to Kimberly. The Titan dealer here in Fresno is talking
to client about 2-S with Jabaru 3300. If we can put the package together
I'm being considered for its construction. I helped a customer finish his
Titan-2 this summer. Good luck and if your building have fun.
Chuck Riley
http://chucksfalcon.tripod.com
riley.nancy@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken korenek <kkorenek@comcast.net>
>
> I'd like $1000 for 'em, but I'd settle for $750 in green money. you
> pick 'em up.
>
> I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of north Texas.
>
> Call me and we can talk.
>
> Ken Korenek
> 817-483-8054 home
> 817-657-6500 cell
>
>
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