Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:52 AM - Re: vortex generators (possums)
2. 08:22 AM - MKIIIC Door plans (Giovanni Day)
3. 10:00 AM - Re: vortex generators- taping method (Land Shorter)
4. 10:08 AM - Re: vortex generators- potential prop damage (Land Shorter)
5. 10:29 AM - Re: vortex generators (d7yl)
6. 10:49 AM - Re: Possums & his car (Richard Pike)
7. 10:51 AM - Re: MKIIIC Door plans (Richard Pike)
8. 11:02 AM - Re: vortex generators (John Hauck)
9. 11:01 AM - Re: MKIIIC Door plans (Richard Pike)
10. 04:56 PM - Re: vortex generators (Bob N)
11. 05:41 PM - Re: MKIIIC Door plans (Giovanni Day)
12. 06:19 PM - Re: MKIIIC Door plans (Giovanni Day)
13. 07:13 PM - Re: VG's (possums)
14. 07:25 PM - Re: VG's (robert bean)
15. 07:27 PM - Re: VG's (John Hauck)
16. 07:57 PM - Re: MKIIIC Door plans (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 12:57 AM 11/25/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "d7yl" <d7yl@telus.net>
>
>You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
>What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
>through your prop?
>
>regards,
> Dar7yl
I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
melting the tape with paint thinner.
3M=99 Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?QQQQQQzxIadQjtRQctRQQQG0XALsFR9c-
Besides there are only about 8 of theses little things in front of the
big bad Warp Drive prop. I'm sure I could throw a handful of them
through the prop without hurting it. They hardly weigh anything
(100 weigh less than 1 ounce) .
Happy Turkey Day
Message 2
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| Subject: | MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Kolb Fliers,
If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door instillation.
I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory for some
reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators- taping method |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Land Shorter <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
I've found that the quickest way to put tape on the VGs is to peel back the protective
layer on the tape and then stick about 20 VGs right down on the roll and
then lightly cut around the VGs with a razor knife (the cheap kind that has
the tips that break off). When you stick the VGs down just put them right next
to each other (touching and so that two of the 1" long VGs are next to each
other and come up to the edge of the 2" wide tape- that leaves one fewer edge
per VG that you have to cut around) and then you take the razor knife and extend
the blade so that it's about 2" long and do a criss-cross cut pattern around/between
all the VGs.
Then take a small set of smooth-jawed (preferably curved) needlenose pliers and
pick each VG off the roll (give it a slight twist or curl as you pull it off)
and then stick it on the wing. Works really slick.
BTW all this is described in the manual that comes with my VGs.
I can do a complete set of 100 VGs in about 1 1/2 hours this way (including the
layout on the wing with my template).
Joa
www.landshorter.com
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators- potential prop damage |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Land Shorter <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
One nice thing about Lexan VGs is that they won't harm your propeller if they should
happen to come off. With a mass of about .01 ounces and a relatively soft/flexible
material they shouldn't cause any damage.
The other trick you can do if you're worried is put them on with double-stick tape
and then take small pieces of clear packing tape (the thin kind) and place
over the bases. This will really hold them on well and is in fact what I recommend
for folks that put them on the underside of their horizontal stabs (run
a strip of the packing tape down cutting little slits in it for the VG sail to
poke up through). The VG itself holds really well with just the double-stick
but if a rock or something hits it (on the horizontal) then they could possibly
get knocked off.
Joa
www.landshorter.com
++++++++++++++++++++++
You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
through your prop?
regards,
Dar7yl
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "d7yl" <d7yl@telus.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
> At 12:57 AM 11/25/2004, you wrote:
>>You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
>>What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
>>through your prop?
>
> I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
> when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
> melting the tape with paint thinner.
How does the tape react to UV?
What is the bonding compatability with the surface of your wing?
> Besides there are only about 8 of theses little things in front of the
> big bad Warp Drive prop. I'm sure I could throw a handful of them
> through the prop without hurting it. They hardly weigh anything
> (100 weigh less than 1 ounce) .
Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge, which
could propagate into a full-blown crack.
regards,
Dar7yl
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Possums & his car |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Did you know a Happy Turkey Day is better with music? It is -
Go here -
http://www.wildblueyonderband.com/music.htm
Scroll half way down the page, and on the right side, click on
"Possum Crawls Tonight."
Enjoy, & think Happy Thoughts of Possum & his car....
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
At 10:51 AM 11/25/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
>I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
>when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
>melting the tape with paint thinner.
>
>Happy Turkey Day
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I'll get you some in about two hours. Hang loose.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:22 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Kolb Fliers,
>
>If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
>MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door instillation.
>I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory for some
>reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
> speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge,
> which
> could propagate into a full-blown crack.
>
> regards,
> Dar7yl
Dar7yl/Gang:
Don't know how to pronounce names with numbers in them.
Doubt those little lexan VG's will do much hard to a Warp Drive Prop,
especially one with a nickle steel leading edge. Mightg scratch the flat
black paint a bit, but don't waste your time worrying about cracking a solid
carbon fiber blade.
I put a 18" 1.5" OD exhaust pipe through my prop at WOT on a 912. Dinged
the edge a bit, but flew it home safely.
Take care,
john h
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
What you are looking for is already on my web page -
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
When I asked Kolb for those prints, they sent four, three are on the web
page. the only one I have not put on the web page is the door latch, and if
there is any interest, I can add that one, let me know.
(But it won't happen this afternoon)
If there are other prints, I don't have them.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:22 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Kolb Fliers,
>
>If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
>MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door instillation.
>I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory for some
>reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob N <ronoy@shentel.net>
possums wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
>At 12:57 AM 11/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "d7yl" <d7yl@telus.net>
>>
>>You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
>>What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
>>through your prop?
>>
>>regards,
>> Dar7yl
>>
>>
>
>I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
>when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
>melting the tape with paint thinner.
>
>3M=99 Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape
>
>http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?QQQQQQzxIadQjtRQctRQQQG0XALsFR9c-
>
>Besides there are only about 8 of theses little things in front of the
>big bad Warp Drive prop. I'm sure I could throw a handful of them
>through the prop without hurting it. They hardly weigh anything
>(100 weigh less than 1 ounce) .
>
>Happy Turkey Day
>
>
>
>
I have some 33 homemade VGs, in the valleys of my FireFly. Stuck on with
double-side rug tape. Can't hardly get them off aftert several yrs.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Richard,
Thanks for the post. I would like to see the latch page also. Thanks
again
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MKIIIC Door plans
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
What you are looking for is already on my web page -
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
When I asked Kolb for those prints, they sent four, three are on the web
page. the only one I have not put on the web page is the door latch, and
if
there is any interest, I can add that one, let me know.
(But it won't happen this afternoon)
If there are other prints, I don't have them.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:22 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Kolb Fliers,
>
>If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
>MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door
>instillation. I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory
>for some reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Richard et. al.,
From the plans on your site, it looks like the hinge goes under the
lexan on the door and under the windshield. Is this correct?
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MKIIIC Door plans
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
What you are looking for is already on my web page -
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
When I asked Kolb for those prints, they sent four, three are on the web
page. the only one I have not put on the web page is the door latch, and
if
there is any interest, I can add that one, let me know.
(But it won't happen this afternoon)
If there are other prints, I don't have them.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:22 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Kolb Fliers,
>
>If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
>MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door
>instillation. I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory
>for some reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 02:51 PM 11/23/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
>Hey Kolb guys,
>--snip
>Anyway, the improvements of the VG's are no just in numbers.the MAJOR
>improvements are in HOW WELL it flies slow, not just that it flies
>slower. The stability is greatly improved and roll rate isn't as
>"sluggish" at slow speeds. If you are looking for stick force gradients
>and changes in Dutch roll characteristics, then sorry, I didn't go to
>that level of testing.try them yourself and make your own judgements.
>-snip
>When I called Cub Crafters in Washington (who holds an STC to put the
>VG's on Super Cubs) to enquire about the glue they used to bond them on,
>the owner mentioned that they installed VG's on just about every plane
>that came through their shop. --snip
>
>They cost me $100 and 1.5 hours to install.absolutely the best $100 I've
>ever spent on an airplane.
>
>
>Jeremy Casey
------------------------------------------
>Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
>speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge, which
>could propagate into a full-blown crack.
>regards,
> Dar7yl
------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to beat this to death, but there are very few things that
you can do to
your plane that (1) doesn't do anything at all for the performance - after
spending
lots of time and money or (2) actually degrades the performance of what you
were trying to do anyway. I've spent lots of $ for nothing several times.
I've got over 600 hours on this one and had about 600 hours on my old
Firestar before
it went into the lake and about 600 hours on a CGS Hawk before that. I
started playing
with these things in 1983 and was always tweaking the planes. I'm just a
weekend
flyer - 100 hours a year or less - but a lot of years.
I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for the
amount of time and
money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not just that you can fly slower,
it's
"how well" you can fly slower. I fly my plane slow - a lot. I fly my plane
at stall speed at lot.
I can now fly "behind" the buzzards without doing "S" turns and without
stalling and can turn with
them without running into them. The Buzzards appreciate that - I'm sure.
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
> I can now fly "behind" the buzzards without doing "S" turns and without
> stalling and can turn with
> them without running into them. The Buzzards appreciate that - I'm
> sure.
>
> guess that beats having the buzzards circling over you....... do not
> archive
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| I can now fly "behind" the buzzards without doing "S" turns and
without
| stalling and can turn with
| them without running into them. The Buzzards appreciate that - I'm
sure.
Possum
Possum/Gang:
I appreciate a man that Buzzards appreciate.
A man that flies with Buzzards, can fly with anyone.
I also like to fly with Buzzards, Hawks, and Eagles. Problem with
Eagles is, they are far to good at flying to try and keep up with
where they are.
Take care,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 16
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| Subject: | MKIIIC Door plans |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
If you put the hinge on the outside of the Lexan, and the folded (pin) side
of the hinge to the outside, then (normally) you can fold the door open to
the point where it will stay open by itself. It sort of lays over atop the
edge of the windshield. Anyway, this is a convenient goal to work towards.
If the pin side of the hinge is to the inside, then it binds at about the
80 -90 degree up point and you can't quite get the door to go past center
and stay put. Same problem if the hinge is to the inside of the Lexan, it
won't open as far. Or at least I couldn't get mine to, but then after
fooling with these Firestar motor mounts all day, I've about decided I'm
not all that smart anyway...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 08:19 PM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
>Richard et. al.,
>
> >From the plans on your site, it looks like the hinge goes under the
>lexan on the door and under the windshield. Is this correct?
>
>Giovanni
>MKIII/912 80566
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MKIIIC Door plans
>
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
>What you are looking for is already on my web page -
>http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Lexan%20rear%20enclosure.html
>When I asked Kolb for those prints, they sent four, three are on the web
>
>page. the only one I have not put on the web page is the door latch, and
>if
>there is any interest, I can add that one, let me know.
>(But it won't happen this afternoon)
>If there are other prints, I don't have them.
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>At 10:22 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Kolb Fliers,
> >
> >If there is anyone out there with a digital camera and a full set of
> >MKIIIc plans, I need a photo of all the pages for the door
> >instillation. I did not get them with my kit from the old Kolb factory
> >for some reason. I need the particulars. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Giovanni
> >MKIII/912 80566
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
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