Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:22 AM - More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!!! (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:56 AM - Tailwheel Shimmy (Edward Steuber)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: Tailwheel Shimmy (dama)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: wheel alignment (robert bean)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Shimmy (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: wheel alignment (Don Gherardini)
7. 06:48 AM - Fw: Telephone Scam - Important!! (Pat Lavigne)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: wheel alignment (Jack & Louise Hart)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: wheel alignment (Richard Pike)
10. 08:15 AM - Re: Fw: Telephone Scam - Important!! (Richard Pike)
11. 09:26 AM - Kolb Letter about Norm (Clay Stuart)
12. 12:36 PM - Tailplane fliying wire tension (kfackler)
13. 01:44 PM - Re :Tube smashing (Mike Pierzina)
14. 03:49 PM - VG Testing? (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
15. 04:12 PM - Re: VG Testing? (Charlie England)
16. 04:50 PM - Re: VG Testing? (possums)
17. 04:59 PM - Re: VG Testing? (Richard Pike)
18. 05:13 PM - Re: VG Testing? (Bob N.)
19. 07:35 PM - Re: VG Testing? (Vince Nicely)
20. 08:41 PM - Re: VG Testing? (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
21. 11:51 PM - Re: wheel alignment (GeoR38@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!!! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means two things... I'm 41 years old
today - your sympathy is appreciated; and its the last official day of this
year's List Fund Raiser!!! There is still plenty of time to make your
Contribution to assure your place on the List of Contributors. Also, there
are still lots of Contribution Gifts available including the very popular
List Archive CDROM, Aircraft Fuel Tester, 24 Years of the RVAtor, and the
very cool Kitlog Pro software!
Below is another awesome set of comments from listers regarding how
valuable the Lists are. Please read them over and make a Contribution to
show your support for the Lists as well!
The List Contribution web site can be found at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------ Even More of What Listers Are Saying... --------------
[The List] has been very helpful as I am building an RV7A.
Stan B.
Wonderful resource.
Ralph C.
I don't think I could be building my plane without the help I get from the
list.
Richard V.
Invaluable to my Kolb building.
Clay S.
Best source of light aircraft electrical information any where.
Dan O.
Great service.
Bjorn B.
The lists are certainly worth it!
Jim M.
The Lists have been and continue to be a valuable tool.
Jeff O.
Exceptional service.
Larry M.
[The List] has been very helpful, informative and entertaining.
Sterling B.
Very helpful resource.
Grant C.
I don't think I could build my 601XL without the list.
William G.
Great service to the aviation community.
John W.
I have saved a ton of money in the operation of my [aircraft].
Lee P.
Great contribution to builders everywhere!
Tom E.
[The List] is one of my nightly entertainments.
Ross S.
A great service and I hope you can keep it going!
Bob O.
My building support group.
Richard V.
Has made the operation of my aircraft much safer...
Lee P.
Now that I am close to completion of my [homebuilt], I look back
and wonder how I could ever have made it this far without [the Lists].
Jeff O.
I check the List twice daily at least.
Anthony W.
Thank you for taking care of us all with these most important Lists.
William M.
The List is very valuable to me...
Red H.
Great web site!!
Robert H.
Thanks for giving me another year of learning.
Larry M.
I don't think I'd have been able to get my project airborne without it!
Grant C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tailwheel Shimmy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Kip,
The obvious places have already been addressed but.....if your tail brace
wires are all loose you may get enough wobble going to start "the dance"....just
a guess....
Ed in Western NY
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Shimmy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" <dama@mindspring.com>
Ed, Robert, and Richard, thanks for the ideas. I'll try all one by one. It
has been suggested also that the alu tubing may be cracked forward of the
tailwheel solid rod. I beefed this area up during construction as others had
seen breakage before...
Kip
http://www.springeraviation.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Tailwheel Shimmy
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber"
<esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
>
> Kip,
> The obvious places have already been addressed but.....if your
tail brace wires are all loose you may get enough wobble going to start "the
dance"....just a guess....
> Ed in Western NY
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wheel alignment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
On 30, Nov 2004, at 12:25 AM, GeoR38@aol.com wrote:
>> Should the tires be soft or hard to keep from spreading when pushing
>> or
>> pulling depending on toe in or toe out?
>>
>> Does anyone have a system of minor adjustment there instead of
>> drilling a
>> new hole all the time when the tires are not PERFECTLY aligned?
>
>
> 1. Snap a line on the hangar floor and put the tailwheel on the
> line. Then
> drop a plumb off the nose hoop to get the front of the plane on the
> line.
If you have a nice clean concrete floor the chalk line is the way to go.
I used the boom tube as a guide. -eyeballing it works good enough.
Run it out 10 ' or so in front of the nose, and then run a perpendicular
"T" the same width as the outside of your tires. Run the chalk line
around the outside of the tire to the point on the "T" and you will have
zero toe. Works for me.
>
>
> Someone said that they had an elongated hole in
> the Aluminum part and twisted the fitting to the right location then
> squashed
> it with shear Manpower on the nut to hold it by friction due to
> fitting
> deformation.
No, my (very slightly) elongated hole is in the sleeve of the steel
axle fitting.
I could take it back off and weld the appropriate area closed and file
it round
but so far have had no problem with my "adjustable" feature.
My right gear leg has no such feature, but then you only need to
tweak one side if you are close. Running with toe out does tend
to yield some uncertainty in directional control. :) -BB
> ============================================
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tail Wheel Shimmy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@freescale.com>
Hey Kip,
You hit it on the head to check lower vertical stab. I would do what one other
has suggested, place your tail up supported by tail boom, start to wiggle things
around. Could be the lower vertical bracket that attaches your lower vertical
stab to tail boom. Or, where you suggested, in the vertical stab itself.
I would check for a loose rudder horn or hinges? The tail wheel assembly itself
I am sure has plenty of wear and a hole has worn out of round? Check anything
that is connected to rudder, cables, peddles, turnbuckles, swedges, attachment
bolts to the whole system, cable tension??? Your plane is talking to you,
take some time to listen and I am sure you will find the problem least where
you expected. Let us know what you find.
Good luck,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dama
Subject: Kolb-List: Tail Wheel Shimmy
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" <dama@mindspring.com>
Gents, I cannot deal with this tailwheel anymore.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wheel alignment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
GEorge,
I also Used the "line on the floor method" with straight edges strapped to
the tires...it worked fine for me...well, it worked fine the second time I
did it anyway!...hehe... The first time I didnt load the Fly with sand bags
to simulate weight of a pilot. Made a hugh difference in the angle of the
gear legs and therefore the angle of the wheels when under a load. Now when
in flight the Fly looks quite "pigeon toed" but on the ground...the wheels
are perfectly straight.
Dont know just zactly how this might be preformed on a 2-holer....or how
much weight you should use, but it sure makes a difference.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 7
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|
slyck@frontiernet.net, ragbagtim@aol.com, bowerdl@frontiernet.net,
tclark@rochester.rr.com, dougalou@aol.com, tconesus@yahoo.com,
dimnatice@aol.com, d.direnzi@worldnet.att.net, beefbaron@aol.com,
michelem@rochester.rr.com, bserbjr@aol.com, bto842@aol.com,
jcruz1@rochester.rr.com, sunshine419@hotmail.com, lavigne@rochester.rr.com,
thlv001@aol.com, luceair@frontiernet.net, mariannelovebird@earthlink.com,
mmarott1@rochester.rr.com, nzggator@yahoo.com, bryan@tnkolbaircraft.com,
kolb-list@matronics.com, diana@dianatravel.net, pmurphy8@bellsouth.net,
jpalerm4@rochester.rr.com, drangion@frontiernet.net, thomriddle@buffalo.com,
klsarfaty@acninc.net, sergea647@yahoo.com, lavignes@frontiernet.net,
martysmilt@hotmail.com, tbrush1@rochester.rr.com, bushwhacker437@aol.com,
mrzimbo@webtv.net
| Subject: | Fw: Telephone Scam - Important!! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Pat Lavigne" <pjl53@hotmail.com>
t;
Subject: Telephone Scam - Important!!
90# on the telephone
PASS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW
I received a telephone call last evening from an individual
identifying himself as an ATT Service technician who was
conducting a test on telephone lines. He stated that to complete the
test I should touch nine(9), zero(0), the pound sign (#), and then
hang up.
Luckily, I was suspicious and refused.
Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that by
pushing 90#, you give the requesting individual full access to your
telephone line, which enables them to place long distance calls
billed to your home phone number.
I was further informed that this scam has been originating from
many local jails/prisons. I have also verified this information
with UCB Telecom,Pacific Bell, MCI, Bell Atlantic and GTE. Please
beware.
DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE.
The GTE Security Department requested that I share this information
with EVERYONE I KNOW.
PLEASE pass this on to everyone YOU know.
Ann Marie Collins
Realtor Associate
r-house ERA
(585) 342-7820 ext. 30
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: wheel alignment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 08:18 AM 11/30/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>
>On 30, Nov 2004, at 12:25 AM, GeoR38@aol.com wrote:
>>> Should the tires be soft or hard to keep from spreading when pushing
>>> or
>>> pulling depending on toe in or toe out?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a system of minor adjustment there instead of
>>> drilling a
>>> new hole all the time when the tires are not PERFECTLY aligned?
>>
George,
While building the FireFly, the mounting of the wheel axles to the gear legs
was a pain. While working by your self, there is no way to keep everything
straight while drilling the hole to hold the axle assembly to the gear leg.
You have to have help in the form of an alignment holding fixture. I like
Richard Pike's rod through the center, but my axle leg tube assembles were
made from welded tubes.
I slipped the welded tube axle and wheel and tire assemblies onto their
respective leg. Then I clamped a couple of scrap pieces of 2x4 (the longer
the better) one on each side of the wheel with C clamps so the 2x4s rested
on the ground. Then the two sets were rotated so that the wheels were
parallel to each other and to a vertical plane passing through the tail boom
tube. To keep things from moving during the hole drilling process, another
scrap strip of wood was nailed to and in between the 2x4s on the wheels. A
small hole was drilled through the axle assembly tube and leg, followed by a
full size drill. If you are replacing a gear leg and re drilling it would
be difficult to match holes perfectly. But one can make curved washers out
of the same size steel tubing that is used in your axle assembly. Just take
a piece and drill the correct hole size through it near a free end. Cut off
the end with the two holes. Then cut the tube length wise between the two
holes. Deburr and use these as clamping washers to compensate for the
mismatched and elongated hole in the axle assembly. With a little care they
will look great and actually you will have a stronger attachment point than
before.
By this method, I was able to get the wheels running parallel, but camber
was off. Camber was adjusted by removing a wheel, placing the inboard
portion of the axle on a wood block, sliding a piece of galvanized water
pipe over the axle, and bending the axle down a little. The wheel was
slipped back on and with 200 pounds of bagged sand in the seat the FireFly
was rolled back and forth until the wheels found their normal track. Camber
was checked and the whole process repeated until both wheels tipped out a
little at the top. This takes a while, but it is worth the effort in that
the FireFly became very docile on the ground.
All of this may not apply, but may be it will give you some ideas.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: wheel alignment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
For a 2-holer, you need three people, with the heaviest one sitting in the
airplane.
Or at least, I hope so, because that's what we did.
Richard Pike
FSII N582EF
do not archive
At 08:43 AM 11/30/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
>GEorge,
>I also Used the "line on the floor method" with straight edges strapped to
>the tires...it worked fine for me...well, it worked fine the second time I
>did it anyway!...hehe... The first time I didnt load the Fly with sand bags
>to simulate weight of a pilot. Made a hugh difference in the angle of the
>gear legs and therefore the angle of the wheels when under a load. Now when
>in flight the Fly looks quite "pigeon toed" but on the ground...the wheels
>are perfectly straight.
>Dont know just zactly how this might be preformed on a 2-holer....or how
>much weight you should use, but it sure makes a difference.
>
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Telephone Scam - Important!! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Thanks but 2 things to note here:
1.) It is not Kolb related.
2.) It is not quite correct. -
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021898.htm
If you think it needs to go to the listers, then send it off list to
individuals.
Or if it is crucial to the point that it is critical for all of us to know,
it will be on the internet somewhere, post a url.
And a "do not archive"
And verify it first. Urban legends help no one's credibility.
Shalom
Richard Pike
do not archive
At 09:47 AM 11/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Pat Lavigne" <pjl53@hotmail.com>
>
>
>t;
>Subject: Telephone Scam - Important!!
>
>
>90# on the telephone
>
>PASS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW
>
>
>I received a telephone call last evening from an individual
>identifying himself as an ATT Service technician who was
>conducting a test on telephone lines. He stated that to complete the
>test I should touch nine(9), zero(0), the pound sign (#), and then
>hang up.
>
>Luckily, I was suspicious and refused.
>
>
>Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that by
>pushing 90#, you give the requesting individual full access to your
>telephone line, which enables them to place long distance calls
>billed to your home phone number.
>
>I was further informed that this scam has been originating from
>many local jails/prisons. I have also verified this information
>with UCB Telecom,Pacific Bell, MCI, Bell Atlantic and GTE. Please
>beware.
>
>DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE.
>
>The GTE Security Department requested that I share this information
>with EVERYONE I KNOW.
>
>
>PLEASE pass this on to everyone YOU know.
>
>
>Ann Marie Collins
>Realtor Associate
>r-house ERA
>(585) 342-7820 ext. 30
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Kolb Letter about Norm |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Here is the letter that Bruce Chesnut sent me last week:
Nov 18 2004
To The Extended Family of Kolb Aircraft
Norman J. Labhart, Jr. lost his life in a terrible tragedy Monday the 15th
of November at 13:28 Hours. He leaves behind his wife Dana and their two
children Carl and Katy.
Norm was a good friend, a great pilot, and a real asset to the aviation
community. He will be missed by all who came in contact with him. Norm was
always ready to assist Kolb in any way that he could, and always volunteered
his time not only during Sun n Fun, and Air Adventure over the past 5 years,
but many local fly-ins, and the Kolb Home Coming each year. He also gave of
his time and ability to introduce Kolb aircraft to any one interested. With
over 300 hours in just the Mark 3's alone, he had given rides to well over
300 people. All on his own time, just because he loved the airplanes, loved
to fly, and loved helping out. That love eventually cost him his life.
Knowing Norm as we do, we realize that Norm, if it was his time, passed from
this life doing exactly what he so loved to do.
Norm on that tragic day was giving a person that wanted a ride in a Kolb
Mark III Xtra, because he was interested in buying a used Mark 3 Classic
that he was negotiating to buy. The passenger was a big fellow, over 200 lbs
and had about 400 hours in light aircraft. We simply do not know at this
time what occurred. We do know that the engine was not running at the time
of the accident. The aircraft was on final approach into Chesnut Knolls
runway, landing to the west, and did not have enough altitude to clear the
approach end of the runway. Norm had done many dead stick landings into
this same field, and always left himself plenty of room for error. What
happened on that day is just not known. He had some escape routes he could
have flown, but didn't. My best estimation, after looking at the scene and
the aircraft is that the engine quit just some 600 feet from the end of the
runway, and with no time to attempt a restart, he had to accept what was
open to him. With the aircraft just under gross, with no power, the sink
rate would have been great, leaving him the only path to try and that was
bank left, where the slope on the approach end of the run way was less, and
he would have knocked the gear out, but slide to a safe stop. He only
lacked about 4 more feet of altitude to accomplish his goal. Because he hit
left wing down, Norm's side of the plane took the most of the force. The
force was both sudden stopping, from 40 MPH to 0 in about 4 feet, and a down
force of at least 10 g's. We have calculated the forward force to be 12 to
15 g's.
We have seen many-crashed boom and pod type aircraft, and this
is only the second time we have seen the engine structure shear from its
attach points, and move forward to that degree. The other one
that we saw was a nose in direct at speed. Norm actually hit at an angle on
an upslope. This particular day, it was just a fluke that they did not get
out, dust off, and complain about tearing up the plane. The
wings, fuselage boom tube, and tail section could be bolted on to another
airframe and flown tomorrow.
When the NTSB finishes their report we will share that with each Kolb Mark 3
owner that requests it for their information.
My wish in going into this in this much detail, is to give you all some
insight into the accident, and stop any rumors that might be around. Norm
was one of the best pilots I had the pleasure of riding with, and even
though it may be ruled pilot error in the end, he had no options to follow
and fate simply dealt him a very bad hand.
I know that Norm's family would love to hear from any of you that knew Norm,
and if you have time, a message to them would go along way in helping to
console them. If you would like, you can send your cards or letters to The
New Kolb Aircraft Co, 8375 Russell Dyche Highway, London Kentucky 40741, or
email them to customersupport@tnkolbaircraft.com, and we will get them to
Dana.
In Norm's memory we are changing the name of Chesnut Knolls Aviation Airpark
airfield to Labhart Field, so that we can always celebrate his memory and
his accomplishments.
Respectfully Submitted
Bruce Chesnut
The New Kolb Aircraft Company
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tailplane fliying wire tension |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
How tight should the flying wires on the tail be and how should this be
checked? What are the consequences of a too loose or too tight condition?
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI4
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re :Tube smashing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hi Paul,
The trailing edge of the tube is the same way I made mine...
What I was looking at was the other end...In the picture , the (semi)flat area
looks about 1 1/2" long..., in my plans it calls for the area flattened to be
"minimum" for strenght....I thought of using that flat gusset for the leading
edge , to cut down on the homer bumps...but I thought of it too late, I already
had some done the other way.
Well, I was just wondering if it was different than it looks in the picture...(
optical illusian )
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PB280012.JPG
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mike/all,
All of the al tubing bent and flattened to spec. May be due to the way I made the
tail surfaces. Rather than stacking the tubing regarding the trailing edges
that's leading you that way. I chose the radius method over the Homers bumps
method. Makes for cleaner surfaces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do not archive
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
--
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
Oh no! The VG tread has died out and I'm not done learning :-)
Some of you guys have said that in testing the effectiveness of the VG's
in lowering the stall speed it's hard to verify a couple mph difference
in IAS because of the extreme angle of the pitot tube. And I am not the
scientific-mathematical-tester-evaluator like the kinds of Jack Hart and
some other of you guys. So I was thinking that maybe the best and most
unrefutable side by side comparison for no VG's vs VG's would be to put
then on only one wing first and then to a test flight to see which wing
will fly slower. I'm the kind of guy that has to be able to feel the
difference to know that it's "real" and worth the time and money. What
ya think? ~Earl
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Earl & Mim Zimmerman wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
>
> Oh no! The VG tread has died out and I'm not done learning :-)
> Some of you guys have said that in testing the effectiveness of the VG's
> in lowering the stall speed it's hard to verify a couple mph difference
> in IAS because of the extreme angle of the pitot tube. And I am not the
> scientific-mathematical-tester-evaluator like the kinds of Jack Hart and
> some other of you guys. So I was thinking that maybe the best and most
> unrefutable side by side comparison for no VG's vs VG's would be to put
> then on only one wing first and then to a test flight to see which wing
> will fly slower. I'm the kind of guy that has to be able to feel the
> difference to know that it's "real" and worth the time and money. What
> ya think? ~Earl
How do you feel about entering a spin with lift being asymmetrical
between the wings? ;-)
Charlie
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 06:48 PM 11/30/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
>
>Oh no! The VG tread has died out and I'm not done learning :-)
>Some of you guys have said that in testing the effectiveness of the VG's
>in lowering the stall speed it's hard to verify a couple mph difference
>in IAS because of the extreme angle of the pitot tube. And I am not the
>scientific-mathematical-tester-evaluator like the kinds of Jack Hart and
>some other of you guys. So I was thinking that maybe the best and most
>unrefutable side by side comparison for no VG's vs VG's would be to put
>then on only one wing first and then to a test flight to see which wing
> will fly slower. I'm the kind of guy that has to be able to feel the
>difference to know that it's "real" and worth the time and money. What
>ya think? ~Earl
Don't do that -
The instructions mention that people have actually attempted this
method of testing. quote .... "We try to make the testing process as idiot
proof as
possible - but like they say ( the idiots just keep getting smarter)."
I think that is the way they put it in the manual or pamphlet.
Do you really want to fly with each wing having completely different flight
characteristics?
Don't let your friends fly like "The Aluminum Butcher of Brandon"
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
This is a joke, right?
Because if it's not, you will not be testing VG's, you will be testing your
ability to fly an airplane that is going to have really weird and probably
nasty stall characteristics (I suspect a half snap to an unusual attitude,
with a spin probability of 90%+) accompanied by unpredictable - and
probably unfavorable - spin recovery characteristics.
Then you might get to test your ballistic chute...
Wheee...
Life is much less exciting if you go out some morning or afternoon with
still air and slow fly it on the edge of a stall and see what the GPS
says. Do it in at least three directions so you get some valid numbers.
Because your airspeed is probably not as accurate as it ought to be, so now
you will be calibrating it into the bargain, and this way you'll know what
the numbers really are.
Then add the VG's and do it again. Even if your numbers are not perfect,
think of all the good slow flight practice you'll get.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 06:48 PM 11/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
>
>Oh no! The VG tread has died out and I'm not done learning :-)
>Some of you guys have said that in testing the effectiveness of the VG's
>in lowering the stall speed it's hard to verify a couple mph difference
>in IAS because of the extreme angle of the pitot tube. And I am not the
>scientific-mathematical-tester-evaluator like the kinds of Jack Hart and
>some other of you guys. So I was thinking that maybe the best and most
>unrefutable side by side comparison for no VG's vs VG's would be to put
>then on only one wing first and then to a test flight to see which wing
> will fly slower. I'm the kind of guy that has to be able to feel the
>difference to know that it's "real" and worth the time and money. What
>ya think? ~Earl
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Earl, do you mean putting VGs on one half of the wing, leaving the other
half un-VGed? Wow, I can see it now...my left wing lagging far behind my
right. Gives a new meaning to Yaw.
ever helpful,
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
Earl and Gang,.
It was suggested:
> So I was thinking that maybe the best and most
> unrefutable side by side comparison for no VG's vs VG's would be to put
> then on only one wing first and then to a test flight to see which wing
> will fly slower.
I think this is a recipe for a surprise entry into a spin. If one wing
stalls at a higher airspeed than the other, it will drop and the other will
still be generating lift. That is the beginning of a spin. Probably easily
recoverable, but ...
Vince Nicely
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
Richard Pike wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> This is a joke, right?
> Because if it's not,
> Then you might get to test your ballistic chute...
> Wheee...
Yes Bro. Pike it was intended as a joke to see if you guys are awake :-)
And sure enough you guys are looking out for me. Thanks!
Actually I installed some VG's that I made on my Rans today and did some
flight evaluations. I could not really measure the difference in the
stall speed with the ASI and my non aviation gps is slow to update the
speed indication. But the stall seemed to happen at a higher AOA and the
left wing always dropped first?? Bottom line I can land shorter and
flare harder and on take off (tri gear) I can hold the nose higher and
do a short field take off. "Smarter Idiot" ~ Earl Z.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: wheel alignment |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 11/30/2004 10:33:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jbhart@ldd.net writes:
>
>On 30, Nov 2004, at 12:25 AM, GeoR38@aol.com wrote:
>>> Should the tires be soft or hard to keep from spreading when pushing
>>> or
>>> pulling depending on toe in or toe out?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a system of minor adjustment there instead of
>>> drilling a
>>> new hole all the time when the tires are not PERFECTLY aligned?
>>
George,
While building the FireFly, the mounting of the wheel axles to the gear legs
was a pain. While working by your self, there is no way to keep everything
straight while drilling the hole to hold the axle assembly to the gear leg.
You have to have help in the form of an alignment holding fixture. I like
Richard Pike's rod through the center, but my axle leg tube assembles were
made from welded tubes.
I slipped the welded tube axle and wheel and tire assemblies onto their
respective leg. Then I clamped a couple of scrap pieces of 2x4 (the longer
the better) one on each side of the wheel with C clamps so the 2x4s rested
on the ground. Then the two sets were rotated so that the wheels were
parallel to each other and to a vertical plane passing through the tail boom
tube. To keep things from moving during the hole drilling process, another
scrap strip of wood was nailed to and in between the 2x4s on the wheels. A
small hole was drilled through the axle assembly tube and leg, followed by a
full size drill. If you are replacing a gear leg and re drilling it would
be difficult to match holes perfectly. But one can make curved washers out
of the same size steel tubing that is used in your axle assembly. Just take
a piece and drill the correct hole size through it near a free end. Cut off
the end with the two holes. Then cut the tube length wise between the two
holes. Deburr and use these as clamping washers to compensate for the
mismatched and elongated hole in the axle assembly. With a little care they
will look great and actually you will have a stronger attachment point than
before.
By this method, I was able to get the wheels running parallel, but camber
was off. Camber was adjusted by removing a wheel, placing the inboard
portion of the axle on a wood block, sliding a piece of galvanized water
pipe over the axle, and bending the axle down a little. The wheel was
slipped back on and with 200 pounds of bagged sand in the seat the FireFly
was rolled back and forth until the wheels found their normal track. Camber
was checked and the whole process repeated until both wheels tipped out a
little at the top. This takes a while, but it is worth the effort in that
the FireFly became very docile on the ground.
All of this may not apply, but may be it will give you some ideas.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
All of this applies.....thank you Jack, and thanks for the ideas of all the
other responders as well...now to the mill we go.....
George Randolph
firestar driver
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