Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne)
2. 12:03 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne)
3. 04:15 AM - (no subject) (Airgriff2@aol.com)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: [ Steve Boetto ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (PATRICK LADD)
5. 05:20 AM - Weight and Balance (Bob and Jenn B)
6. 06:13 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (John Hauck)
7. 06:14 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (snuffy@usol.com)
8. 06:24 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (BKlebon@aol.com)
9. 06:29 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (BKlebon@aol.com)
10. 07:15 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Hauck)
11. 07:36 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (Lee.Creech@ky.gov)
12. 07:41 AM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Jack & Louise Hart)
13. 07:58 AM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Steve Kroll)
14. 08:15 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (ray anderson)
15. 08:59 AM - Slingshot for sale (Wayne F.Wilson)
16. 09:05 AM - 503 losing power (Steve Kroll)
17. 09:46 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (PATRICK LADD)
18. 10:13 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (snuffy@usol.com)
19. 10:23 AM - Re: 503 losing power (Richard Pike)
20. 10:48 AM - Verner Mark-III Update (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
21. 11:45 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (robert bean)
22. 11:58 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Williamson)
23. 12:27 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Lee.Creech@ky.gov)
24. 01:19 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (bryan green)
25. 02:28 PM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Dale Sellers)
26. 03:15 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Hauck)
27. 03:32 PM - mo CG (robert bean)
28. 03:40 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
29. 04:59 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Rusty)
30. 06:17 PM - Re: Tail Heavy Firestar (David L. Bigelow)
31. 06:38 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Richard Swiderwski)
32. 06:41 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Richard Swiderwski)
33. 06:46 PM - FireFly .... (artdog1512)
34. 06:48 PM - First WetFly Flight (N27SB@aol.com)
35. 06:49 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Richard Swiderwski)
36. 07:35 PM - Re: FireFly .... (Jack & Louise Hart)
37. 07:51 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne)
38. 08:13 PM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Richard Swiderwski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am I gonna
hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next
weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski"
> <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey Rusty,
> I know you'd been off this List for a while, so we can cut you some
> slack, but in the future if you have any wise cracks about taking a long
> time to finish a project, you are suppose to use Big Lar as the worst
> standard of measurement, not me as you did below. ...Richard Swiderski
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> Thanks for the info JD. Did I understand correctly that the price you
> mentioned was for your engine only, not the coolers, exhaust, etc? BTW,
> that's a mighty fine looking Titan :-)
>
> When I was planning to build another SS (not Super Stretch <g>), I had
> pretty much decided on the 912, rather than the 912S. Either is plenty of
> power for a SS, and the 912 was cheaper, and burns 87 octane. As for the
> trade, I don't think that's really what I'm shooting for at the moment.
> The
> choice between 912 and 912S was tight for me, and since I have the 912S
> already, I'll keep it if I decide to stay with the Rotax. I just can't get
> this rotary thought out of my head, and think it might be worth selling
> the
> 912S to follow my obviously masochistic tendencies :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (hope I don't end up taking as long as Richard <g>)
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Betcha it is.............. :-) Well, rusty, anyway. Do not
archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>
-------------------
>
> Sorry, I should have realized that. Weren't we already picking on him
> years
> ago when I was on the list before? I bet his plane isn't moldy though :-)
>
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
http://www.springeraviation.net/database.html
With all the new pilots and builders on board lately, I wanted to remind
people of the Kolb builders and pilots list found at the above site. Others may
want to update their information ,if necessary.
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: [ Steve Boetto ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
"Flys Water"
Is that similar to `gnats piss`?
Cheers
Pat
Message 5
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd@hotmail.com>
It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some. It's not
something to be taken lightly or completely skipped. Your center of gravity
can affect the way your aircraft handles in normal flight, however on a Kolb
or any other very light aircraft it is generally negligable. A trim tab can
adjust the normal flying qualities. The problem starts primarily when you
approach a stall.
If your CG is within the proper range (I believe the consensus is 37% aft of
the leading edge if you used that as your datam line, my twinstar originally
said 40% and the new Kolbs say 35%), the aircraft should not enter a
non-recoverable flat spin. It may still spin, which is based on other
factors, but you should be able to recover. With too much weight on the
tail, you will not have enough elevator authority lower the angle of attack
to flying attitude. So unless you want to be a test pilot, I would suggest
you know exactly where your CG is with both full fuel and no fuel.
While you are doing your calculations, you can check your empty weight and
useful load based on the gross weight of the aircraft. I think many pilots
would be surprised how far over gross weight they are flying or have flown.
Gross weight listed by Kolb is conservative, as it should be. Certified
aircraft are as well. We need that extra conservative number to take into
account the builders accuracy and thoroughness while building the aircraft
as well as the standard gust factors (atmospheric bumps) which can produce
multiple G forces.
Obviously we are flying ultralights and homebuilt aircraft and can do what
we want (for now until you need to certify it by January 31, 2008), but we
need to be smart about it. Fly safe.
Bob
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
and I had
| to deadstick my RV-3 into a Navy helicopter field. Plane and pilot
are fine,
| engine is not. I'll be taking the plane apart in the morning to
haul it
| back to the hanger :-(
|
| Cheers,
| Rusty (very tired)
Morning Rusty/All:
Sorry to hear about the problem.
Any idea why the oil cooler would rupture?
912 owners and operators should not have to worry about that
particular problem. The cooler is on the vacumn side of the oil pump.
Think it might implode? ;-)
Take care,
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
>" It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some."
I've never heard of a Kolb crash due to an aft CG, or ever heard if a
Kolb getting into a flat spin. Of course I only been around Kolbs for
about 15 years..... Snuf
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com
Snuf'
There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in which Dennis
talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home
to get the scales.
If I remember correctly, the owner/builder was a rather tall fellow and moved
the seat attachment point back quite a bit to accomodate his heigth. They
took the plane to the airport and forgot the scales. The test pilot apparently
couldn't compensate for the aft CG condition and crashed.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
which Dennis
| talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went
back home
| to get the scales.
Good Morning BKlebon@aol.com/Gang:
I must have missed that particular newsletter and article. I too,
have never heard of an aft cg accident in a Kolb aircraft. Of course,
that does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of accidents
out there that happen and no one ever knows anything about them.
For the most part, I have done a lot of experimentation, flown quite a
few hours at different cg configurations in the original Firestar and
my MKIII. Although I have no numbers to back up what I say, I have
found no aft cg problem with either aircraft. Recently, I swapped out
a Maule 6" solid rubber tailwheel (6 or 7 lbs) for a Maule 8"
pneumatic Tundra Tail Wheel (10 to 11 lbs with the hardware). There
was a slight difference from the previous normal level flight attitude
of the MKIII. Stall tests in all the different attitudes that I could
think of, resulted in the MKIII promptly dropping her nose. Never got
into a situation that she wanted to fall tail low. Also I might note,
the Firestar and MKIII were controllable in roll attitude right
through the stall.
I am not encouraging anyone to load up their Kolb in an aft cg
configuration and go out and fly. Simply trying to illustrate that
these two Kolb aircraft are/were quite forgiving throughout their
extreme cg range. For example, in addition to the heavy tailwheel, I
have a 25 gal aluminum fuel tank behind the bulkhead with 150 lbs of
fuel (25 gal) when it is topped off. Then I stash another 100 lbs of
gear in the cargo compartment under the fuel tank in the cargo
compartment. Add to that, a 912ULS with 4" prop extension and a 3
blade 72" Warp Drive. Also, the tailsection has been beefed up during
repairs and overhauls, and there's a lot of dope and paint back there,
adding more weight. Some compensation for a heavy tail is made by
moving the main landing gear approximately 8" forward, plus 6 or 8
MRE's in the nose pod, and those items I carry on the front seat,
under the seats, behind the left seat, and Miss P'fer's toolbag, which
rides on the deck in front of the left seat.
Be careful out there. If you are bound and determined to make
changes, make little ones and go slowly. Our sport is a lot of fun,
exciting, but can have very serious consequences if we push too far,
too fast.
Take care,
john h
Titus, Alabama
1992 MKIII - 2,261.8 hours
2000 912ULS - 915.9 hours
1987 Firestar - 1,135.0 hours
1984 Ultrastar - 385.0 hours
Hours in my
three Kolbs - 3,781.8 hours (Not counting time in Kolb Factory
aircraft and others)
(Equates to 260,835
statute miles)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
Aside from the stall/spin scenario, another potential problem with a
too-far-aft CG is that it makes an airplane more sensitive to elevator
inputs, and thus more difficult to flare smoothly without porpoising. This
situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs that
Kolbers have incurred.
Lee
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: BKlebon@aol.com [mailto:BKlebon@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com
Snuf'
There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in which
Dennis
talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home
to get the scales.
If I remember correctly, the owner/builder was a rather tall fellow and
moved
the seat attachment point back quite a bit to accomodate his heigth. They
took the plane to the airport and forgot the scales. The test pilot
apparently
couldn't compensate for the aft CG condition and crashed.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on the Cheap |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 12:48 PM 12/11/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
>Jack,
>I appreciate your comments. I have accepted the hand I have been delt. I
...................................
>It gathers me up and takes me flying and that's what's important.
>
Dale,
That pretty much says it all. How can a non-flyer ever understand
what it feels like to sit at the end of the runway and to ease the
throttle forward?
And for List lurker timid souls, this is for you:
"Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor
Roosevelt
So get with it, and speak up on the List.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
do not archive
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on the Cheap |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Dale, Jack, and Kolbers.....
I'm glad to see you guys writing about dissabilities and how you are coping with
them in order to keep flying. I too have a dissability that is slowly twisting
me up like a pretzel. Mine is RA (rheumatoid arthritis) which, contrary to
general opinion, is not a disease of old people. I was 28 when this thing hit
me like a ton of bricks and I've been disabled basically ever since. I'm 58
now.
I decided to build a Mk-2 and bought a kit in 1988 from Homer and company at Oshkosh
that year. Because of the arthritis, it took me the better part of 10 years
to get it together. But in 1998 I did finally get it finished and flew it
for the first time. It was perhaps, the most satisfying moment of my life and
for quite some time afterward, I was without pain or any symptoms at all which,
I think. is direct proof of the mind/body connection.
Now...some years later, I am dealing with some severe symptoms again, the most
difficult being short-term memory problems. I know that, unless I am able to
resolve this symptom, soon it will not be safe for me to fly and I'll have to
quit. I am not looking forward to that day but I am very grateful that I had
the opportunity at all.
Steve
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
All,
O.K., I'll make myself Scrooge again here at Christmas. John, let's be realistic
about this. You have thousands of hours experience, have a natural born
ability to fly. Many, many newcomers are coming into the sport, many with Kolbs.
Yes, the Kolb is a forgiving airplane, up to a point. The Kolb, or any other
airplane with a significant aft C.G. is something waiting to bite an inexperienced
pilot. There are plenty of documented examples of trained aerobatic
and or test pilots forced to leave such aircraft which have entered flat spins.
Saying it hasn't happened to a particular plane, Kolb or otherwise, doesn't
erase the fact that IT CAN HAPPEN.
Inexperienced , new pilots, should have this drilled into their minds.
First, if the inspector who signed off their plane with such a deficiency, out
of bounds CG, is either unqualified to be an inspector of a deliberate fraud,
endangering the life of the inexperienced builder who expects him to catch deficiencies
that would endanger his life.
At the moment, most so called ultralights are "fat" in weight but the FAA
has been overlooking this because it doesn't endanger lives, but there is a
limit on their looking the other way. If you are flying out of recommended C.G
limits, any way you want to rationalize it, you are ILLEGAL in a dangerous way.
It's a simple procedure to bring any Kolb into proper limits and fly with
a comfortable feeling, both in the smooth way it performs, and knowing that
if that rare ramp inspector does stop you and ask for your paper work, you can
hand it to him with confidence. When you re-register under the new rules and
regs you are going to have to have legal figures to present, Why not do it in
the first place and relax. Just add a little weight where needed and forget it.
In most cases we're talking about adding the weight of about 1-1/2 gals.
of gas. in the nose or tail. Don't push your luck just to show that you can
do it. Don't play Dale Earnhart and tweak the devils nose and pay a price.
Old Scrooge
| There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in
which Dennis
| talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went
back home
| to get the scales.
Good Morning BKlebon@aol.com/Gang:
I must have missed that particular newsletter and article. I too,
have never heard of an aft cg accident in a Kolb aircraft. Of course,
that does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of accidents
out there that happen and no one ever knows anything about them.
For the most part, I have done a lot of experimentation, flown quite a
few hours at different cg configurations in the original Firestar and
my MKIII. Although I have no numbers to back up what I say, I have
found no aft cg problem with either aircraft. Recently, I swapped out
a Maule 6" solid rubber tailwheel (6 or 7 lbs) for a Maule 8"
pneumatic Tundra Tail Wheel (10 to 11 lbs with the hardware). There
was a slight difference from the previous normal level flight attitude
of the MKIII. Stall tests in all the different attitudes that I could
think of, resulted in the MKIII promptly dropping her nose. Never got
into a situation that she wanted to fall tail low. Also I might note,
the Firestar and MKIII were controllable in roll attitude right
through the stall.
I am not encouraging anyone to load up their Kolb in an aft cg
configuration and go out and fly. Simply trying to illustrate that
these two Kolb aircraft are/were quite forgiving throughout their
extreme cg range. For example, in addition to the heavy tailwheel, I
have a 25 gal aluminum fuel tank behind the bulkhead with 150 lbs of
fuel (25 gal) when it is topped off. Then I stash another 100 lbs of
gear in the cargo compartment under the fuel tank in the cargo
compartment. Add to that, a 912ULS with 4" prop extension and a 3
blade 72" Warp Drive. Also, the tailsection has been beefed up during
repairs and overhauls, and there's a lot of dope and paint back there,
adding more weight. Some compensation for a heavy tail is made by
moving the main landing gear approximately 8" forward, plus 6 or 8
MRE's in the nose pod, and those items I carry on the front seat,
under the seats, behind the left seat, and Miss P'fer's toolbag, which
rides on the deck in front of the left seat.
Be careful out there. If you are bound and determined to make
changes, make little ones and go slowly. Our sport is a lot of fun,
exciting, but can have very serious consequences if we push too far,
too fast.
Take care,
john h
Titus, Alabama
1992 MKIII - 2,261.8 hours
2000 912ULS - 915.9 hours
1987 Firestar - 1,135.0 hours
1984 Ultrastar - 385.0 hours
Hours in my
three Kolbs - 3,781.8 hours (Not counting time in Kolb Factory
aircraft and others)
(Equates to 260,835
statute miles)
---------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Slingshot for sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Wayne F.Wilson" <wfwilson1@yahoo.ca>
Hi everyone
As some of you are aware I had a hard landing with my
SS. My family is not excited about me flying it
again. I would like to sell it complete as is. If
anyone has any interest or knows of someone it will
make a very cheap great flying SS.
If any one has advise as to what I should do I would
appreciate the help also.
I have made a list of all the parts which are still
good, for example wings and tail feathers are not even
scratched, along with what has to be replaced. It
would not take very long to get it flying again. Any
interest or questions contact me off list at
wfwilson1@yahoo.ca of 519-736-0577
Thanks for any assistance.
Yours truly
Wayne F Wilson
SS 009
Message 16
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| Subject: | 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
List,
I have a 503 single carb, points ignition with about 200 hours on it. Recently
it has started to lose power in surges. It only drops a few hundred RPM when
it does it and it comes back to full RPM but it sure gets my attention! I rebuilt
the carburator but the conditiion in the engine still exists. Anybody got
any idea what may be causing this power loss?
Thanks,
Steve
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
The Kolb, or any other airplane with a significant aft C.G. is something
waiting to bite an inexperienced pilot. >>
Hi all,
Three points I would like to make about flying out of CG limits.
One is. Don`t do it.
You may get away with it. Aircraft do not usually come onto the market which
are not fairly forgiving, but Newton is as surely waiting in the wings as
Neptune is waiting for sailors.
Two. I do not understand your measurement of CG apparently in percentages.
In the UK there is a datum, usually the leading edge of the wing and the C
of G must fall within an allowable variation fore and aft of that point. If
it doesn`t and the inspector picks it up on the annual. You are grounded.
Just as a matter of self preservation I would not dream of flying outside CG
limits. Its attempted suicide.
I might push the MTOW a bit but the C of G. Never.
Three. Remember the old motto which we have all seen stuck in cockpits
during our flying lives.
AIRPLANES BITE FOOLS.
Cheers
Pat
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
"aircraft which have
entered flat spins. Saying it hasn't happened to a particular plane, Kolb
or otherwise,
doesn't erase the fact that IT CAN HAPPEN."
You seem to be quite knowledgable about aerodynamics. Could you tell
me how far aft the CG on my Mark3 has to be in order for it to maintain a
flat spin? Thanks! Snuf
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Check your point gap.
If that's not it, then we go further.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 09:05 AM 12/13/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
>List,
>
>I have a 503 single carb, points ignition with about 200 hours on
>it. Recently it has started to lose power in surges. It only drops a few
>hundred RPM when it does it and it comes back to full RPM but it sure gets
>my attention! I rebuilt the carburator but the conditiion in the engine
>still exists. Anybody got any idea what may be causing this power loss?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Steve
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Verner Mark-III Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Kolb Friends -
I flew my Mark-III this past weekend for the first time in five months, and
decided to post a Flight Report for your interest. After all, if Duane the
Plane does it ...
The big time gap since my last flight (July) was due to several reasons: I
had carb jet issues on my Bing carburetors that needed working out, did
several maintenance items as part of an annual, then I got evicted from the
hangar I was renting (am in a different hangar now, at an airport closer to
home), and I also had to get my BFR renewed.
Since I flew last, I also increased my prop pitch to 12.5 degrees (PowerFin
3-blade, 72" diam). I am now flying out of a little airport of 6500 feet
elevation.
Flying solo, I'm seeing 800 fpm climb rate at 50 mph, climbing out with wide
open throttle at 4100 rpm.
I noted the following cruise values at 8000 and 9000 feet MSL.
I'm including True Airspeed conversions, because at these altitudes, the
difference is significant. Also recall: the prop is turning half the engine
RPMs - prop reduction is 2-to-1 on the Verner.
3800 rpm - 74 mph
3600 rpm - 68 mph
3400 rpm - 62 mph
3200 rpm - 56 mph
3000 rpm - 48 mph - minimum rpm to maintain level flight
This proves to me how efficient our Kolbs are at low flight speeds - able to
maintain level flight at 1500 prop rpm's. Very neighbor friendly at these
prop speeds, too.
I believe this is the best performance I'm gonna get from this engine/prop
combination.
On a different topic: I am enjoying the benefit of the wing-fold feature of
our Kolb airplanes.
When I decided to move to an airport closer to home, I learned that there
was a year-long waiting list for rentable hangar space. Instead of waiting,
I spoke to a few folks who were already in hangars, asking if they would
mind sharing some hangar floorspace with a folding wing airplane. Got
immediate response - most people are anxious to save money. I ended up
sharing a hangar with a Piper Pacer. The 7 feet of extra space along the
side of his hangar is plenty for me to tuck in my folded Mark-III, and
everybody benefits!
Love those Kolbs!
Dennis Kirby
N93DK, "Magic Bike"
Cedar Crest, NM
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
On 13, Dec 2004, at 10:35 AM, Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
>
> Aside from the stall/spin scenario, another potential problem with a
> too-far-aft CG is that it makes an airplane more sensitive to elevator
> inputs, and thus more difficult to flare smoothly without porpoising.
> This
> situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs
> that
> Kolbers have incurred.
Maybe I'm mistaken here but I was always under the impression that aft
CG had a tendency to moderate pitch inputs (mushy) and extreme forward
CGs made it twitchy. Have to admit to being too lazy to look it up for
confirmation, gotta go walk the doggy. -BB do not archive
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Kolb Weight & Balance Enthusiasts,
The following statement submitted in a post to this list is totally correct
IF:
-- You are flying a FAR Part 23 certificated aircraft OR
-- You are flying an aircraft that has been tested to the CG limits listed
by the manufacturer.
>> If you are flying out of recommended CG limits, any way you want to
rationalize it, you are ILLEGAL in a dangerous way.
As an example, I tested my Kolbra to try and reach the factory listed
numbers of "It should be greater than 20% and less than 35%."
At a forward CG of 27%, there was not enough elevator authority to lift off
the runway at 60 mph. Sure I could have got it in the air at an even higher
speed but then I would not of had any elevator left to slow down to land. My
forward CG limit is 28%.
When flight testing the aft CG location at 38.5%, the power off stall was
still normal Kolb but nearly full forward stick was required to keep from
entering a secondary stall. With the CG at 38% there is adequate, plus some,
elevator authority. Mt aft CG limit is 38%. I have to add that just
increasing the power would fly out of the stall at aft CG.
These numbers, 28%-38% are my CG envelope.
These are the numbers that I as the manufacturer of my Kolbra have
determined by flight testing and entered into my aircraft logbook and
airplane operating handbook.
These are the numbers the FAA see when they do my ramp checks. (Yes I have
been checked.)
If you built your Kolb and it comes in close to the recommended forward
limit be very careful. You will run out of elevator when you try to slow
down.
If you built your Kolb and it comes in close to the recommended aft limit be
very careful. Use temporary weights to get in in the recommended CG range
and in small CG changes, flight test it to find what is near its true limit
or a number you can live with short of the true aft limit.
If you did not build your Kolb, then you need to test it and verify what the
builder has left you for a CG envelope.
Remember that what a kit manufacturer is a guide. What we determine as the
manufacturer of our Kolb's is LAW.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 703 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
Zenith CH701 Project
http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane
Message 23
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
You made me wonder if I had it right, but according to my ancient copy of
"Aviation Fundamentals": "If the aircraft should be loaded so that the CG
is located behind the aft CG limits, the following conditions will occur,
becoming more severe as the CT movers farther aft . . . the aircraft becomes
more unstable and difficult to control." After I bought my FS2 from a
builder who was heaver than me, I found that some added weight in the nose
cone made it noticeably better behaved in pitch.
Lee
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: robert bean [mailto:slyck@frontiernet.net]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance
Maybe I'm mistaken here but I was always under the impression that aft CG
had a tendency to moderate pitch inputs (mushy) and extreme forward CGs made
it twitchy. Have to admit to being too lazy to look it up for confirmation,
gotta go walk the doggy. -BB do not archive
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
robert bean wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>
>On 13, Dec 2004, at 10:35 AM, Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov
>>This
>>situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs
>>that
>>Kolbers have incurred.
>>
>>
> As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I started let
me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had everything to do with flairing
the plane to high and landing 4 feet above the runway. :~)
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on the Cheap |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Thanks Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack & Louise Hart" <jbhart@ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
> At 12:48 PM 12/11/04 -0500, you wrote:
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>Jack,
>>I appreciate your comments. I have accepted the hand I have been delt. I
>
> ...................................
>
>>It gathers me up and takes me flying and that's what's important.
>>
>
> Dale,
>
> That pretty much says it all. How can a non-flyer ever understand
> what it feels like to sit at the end of the runway and to ease the
> throttle forward?
>
> And for List lurker timid souls, this is for you:
>
> "Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." -
> Eleanor
> Roosevelt
>
> So get with it, and speak up on the List.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Jack & Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| >>This
| >>situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear
legs
| >>that
| >>Kolbers have incurred.
| >>
| >>
| > As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I
started let me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had
everything to do with flairing the plane to high and landing 4 feet
above the runway. :~)
Hi Bryan G/Gang:
Whoopee! At least one soul on the Kolb List is honest.
I know I have bent my share of gear legs, aluminum as well as steel,
and it wasn't because of aft cg.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Guess I was, as the Fonz would say, R-R-R, mistaken.
This model airplane article says it well.
http://www.eng.um.edu.mt/~andebo/aero/mod_stab.htm
Because of the forward pitching moment caused by the wing
at cruise the tail surfaces constantly have to be pushing
downward. If the CG is moved aft the downward force required
is less and the aircraft becomes more efficient (faster)
-In addition less elevator effort is necessary so the plane would
become more responsive to an equal stick force.
So I guess an aft CG is gooder and gooder until.........?
-BB do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
I hate it when I do that!!!
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance
>> As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I started
>> let me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had everything to do
>> with flairing the plane to high and landing 4 feet above the runway. :~)
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Any idea why the oil cooler would rupture?
912 owners and operators should not have to worry about that
particular problem. The cooler is on the vacumn side of the oil pump.
Think it might implode? ;-)
--------------------
(RD)
Thanks for the comments John, and Denny. Wings are in the hanger, but the
fuselage is still at the Navy field awaiting a flatbed wrecker in the
morning. Won't know the real cause until I get it back to the hanger for
further inspection. Just assuming it's the cooler at this point.
Once again, I show my ignorance of the 912 by not realizing that the oil
cooler is on the suction side of the pump. This wouldn't be possible with a
normal wet sump system, but it does seem like a good idea to take advantage
of when using a dry sump. Thanks for mentioning it.
Rusty (really don't know what I'll do next)
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tail Heavy Firestar |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
My "Original Kolb" Firestar contstruction manual lists 35 % MAC as the aft CG limit.
There's no discrimination between the FS1 and FS2.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, Kamuela, HI
Message 31
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| Subject: | Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Rusty,
Sorry to hear about your problem. Obviously you did all the right
things to get her back down & walk away grumpy & not lumpy. I had two
friends who didn't. You did Good.
Do not archive
........PS, I'll either be putting off the SS for a while, or working on it
full
force to get it flying ASAP. My change of schedule came this afternoon when
my oil cooler ruptured, smoke filled the cockpit from an oil fire, and I had
to deadstick my RV-3 into a Navy helicopter field. Plane and pilot are fine,
engine is not. I'll be taking the plane apart in the morning to haul it
back to the hanger :-(
Cheers,
Rusty (very tired)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Hey Lar,
Summer was a long time ago. I reckon we'll have to do it again!
Do not archive
......Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am I
gonna
hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next
weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski"
> <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey Rusty,
> I know you'd been off this List for a while, so we can cut you some
> slack, but in the future if you have any wise cracks about taking a long
> time to finish a project, you are suppose to use Big Lar as the worst
> standard of measurement, not me as you did below. ...Richard Swiderski
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> Thanks for the info JD. Did I understand correctly that the price you
> mentioned was for your engine only, not the coolers, exhaust, etc? BTW,
> that's a mighty fine looking Titan :-)
>
> When I was planning to build another SS (not Super Stretch <g>), I had
> pretty much decided on the 912, rather than the 912S. Either is plenty of
> power for a SS, and the 912 was cheaper, and burns 87 octane. As for the
> trade, I don't think that's really what I'm shooting for at the moment.
> The
> choice between 912 and 912S was tight for me, and since I have the 912S
> already, I'll keep it if I decide to stay with the Rotax. I just can't get
> this rotary thought out of my head, and think it might be worth selling
> the
> 912S to follow my obviously masochistic tendencies :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (hope I don't end up taking as long as Richard <g>)
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=owKCj0dk/IOqGvB7j50ftje1Zj2pwndyrqw3Uk4gEVljE5ncoxKps+8gP9fQB8Y60DlPZ9+jPXQkS3eHhWWc71qTIkdjWUAEBdnAFEgbbPFDc1pb89zjC3+ndsyM0AYoPyzngQK3Q9CI2ChzuJF5OX496AOfTJVkDIOeE7cX/Hk=
;
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
how much weight can you put in the driver's
seat of a FireFly? ..... tim
__________________________________
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
Message 34
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| Subject: | First WetFly Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
Hello to All,
Well we did it, The WetFly flew today. Bryan said it was easier than on
wheels. Also I did two flights today. This was my first time in a Firefly.What
a
great flying airplane.
Hats off to Duane for building this one and also to Homer. I will post
pictures later.
Steve Boetto
WetFly #007
Message 35
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Listers,
Regarding the aft cg limit, Homer himself told me the Kolb wing
defies convention, and that 39% is the furthest I should go. When I do my w
& b, I'll give myself an extra degree of safety, & sleep well if I'm 38%.
Richard Swiderski
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of snuffy@usol.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
>" It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some."
I've never heard of a Kolb crash due to an aft CG, or ever heard if a
Kolb getting into a flat spin. Of course I only been around Kolbs for
about 15 years..... Snuf
Do not archive
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: FireFly .... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 06:46 PM 12/13/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
>
>
> how much weight can you put in the driver's
>seat of a FireFly? ..... tim
>
Tim,
Gross weight listed by New Kolb Aircraft Company is 500 pounds. Subtract
the ready to fly weight of your FireFly with fuel tank topped off from 500
pounds and you have the maximum pilot in the seat weight.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Fair price for used 912S? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
As much as I enjoyed the visit last summer, that sure won't be a hardship.
Besides, we still hafta make the boat ride to Silver Springs. I just bought
a little bigger and faster boat, with more room for all, so I'll look
forward to it. But...........you'll hafta put the back seat back in the SS
so I can go for a ride. :-) Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski"
> <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey Lar,
>
> Summer was a long time ago. I reckon we'll have to do it again!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> ......Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am
> I
> gonna
> hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next
> weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar.
> Do
> not Archive.
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Flying on the Cheap |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Dale, Jack, Steve & All
I too am impressed with the sharing & bearing of your disabilities.
My four year struggle with a mystery debilitation of unknown cause has
certainly affected my outlook on life. As I am now making a significant
recovery these last few months, mine appears not to be permanent. I have
come to appreciate all that I have been blessed to experience with an
intensity & clarity I did not have before. The utter privilege to have
flown, to have created machines of flight is only known by a fraction of a
fraction of a percent of all humanity thru the ages. And as rare a
privilege that is, having a loving wife, 2 wonderful children, family, &
friends that have not forgotten me, is even more precious. Three years ago,
when my doctor told me I might have MS, which my father was dying from at
the time, I had an extraordinary revelation: that I had already been gifted
with more blessings than several men would have in their combined life
times. When I was 17, I was electrocuted in a skydiving accident, stopped
breathing & left my body, but was sent back. My two brothers never made it
past 21. God has seen fit to keep me around in spite of good reasons not
to. Life is precious & it is also short. Let's fly safe & dream big. This
List has been a great resource for me, but your stories have impressed me to
read it with the idea keeping in prayer my fellow Kolbers in need. I am
thankful for your inspiration, & I will be doing that.
Richard Swiderski
Moldy SlingShot Waiting To Fly
"Only faith can guarantee the blessings that we hope for, or prove the
existence of the realities that at present remain unseen." Heb 11:1
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-> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Dale, Jack, and Kolbers.....
I'm glad to see you guys writing about dissabilities and how you are coping
with them in order to keep flying. I too have a dissability that is slowly
twisting me up like a pretzel. Mine is RA (rheumatoid arthritis) which,
contrary to general opinion, is not a disease of old people. I was 28 when
this thing hit me like a ton of bricks and I've been disabled basically ever
since. I'm 58 now.
I decided to build a Mk-2 and bought a kit in 1988 from Homer and company at
Oshkosh that year. Because of the arthritis, it took me the better part of
10 years to get it together. But in 1998 I did finally get it finished and
flew it for the first time. It was perhaps, the most satisfying moment of
my life and for quite some time afterward, I was without pain or any
symptoms at all which, I think. is direct proof of the mind/body connection.
Now...some years later, I am dealing with some severe symptoms again, the
most difficult being short-term memory problems. I know that, unless I am
able to resolve this symptom, soon it will not be safe for me to fly and
I'll have to quit. I am not looking forward to that day but I am very
grateful that I had the opportunity at all.
Steve
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