---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/13/04: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne) 2. 12:03 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne) 3. 04:15 AM - (no subject) (Airgriff2@aol.com) 4. 05:19 AM - Re: [ Steve Boetto ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (PATRICK LADD) 5. 05:20 AM - Weight and Balance (Bob and Jenn B) 6. 06:13 AM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (John Hauck) 7. 06:14 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (snuffy@usol.com) 8. 06:24 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (BKlebon@aol.com) 9. 06:29 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (BKlebon@aol.com) 10. 07:15 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Hauck) 11. 07:36 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (Lee.Creech@ky.gov) 12. 07:41 AM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Jack & Louise Hart) 13. 07:58 AM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Steve Kroll) 14. 08:15 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (ray anderson) 15. 08:59 AM - Slingshot for sale (Wayne F.Wilson) 16. 09:05 AM - 503 losing power (Steve Kroll) 17. 09:46 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (PATRICK LADD) 18. 10:13 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (snuffy@usol.com) 19. 10:23 AM - Re: 503 losing power (Richard Pike) 20. 10:48 AM - Verner Mark-III Update (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL) 21. 11:45 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (robert bean) 22. 11:58 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Williamson) 23. 12:27 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Lee.Creech@ky.gov) 24. 01:19 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (bryan green) 25. 02:28 PM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Dale Sellers) 26. 03:15 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (John Hauck) 27. 03:32 PM - mo CG (robert bean) 28. 03:40 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 29. 04:59 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Rusty) 30. 06:17 PM - Re: Tail Heavy Firestar (David L. Bigelow) 31. 06:38 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Richard Swiderwski) 32. 06:41 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Richard Swiderwski) 33. 06:46 PM - FireFly .... (artdog1512) 34. 06:48 PM - First WetFly Flight (N27SB@aol.com) 35. 06:49 PM - Re: Weight and Balance (Richard Swiderwski) 36. 07:35 PM - Re: FireFly .... (Jack & Louise Hart) 37. 07:51 PM - Re: Fair price for used 912S? (Larry Bourne) 38. 08:13 PM - Re: Flying on the Cheap (Richard Swiderwski) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:36 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am I gonna hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" > > > Hey Rusty, > I know you'd been off this List for a while, so we can cut you some > slack, but in the future if you have any wise cracks about taking a long > time to finish a project, you are suppose to use Big Lar as the worst > standard of measurement, not me as you did below. ...Richard Swiderski > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> > > > Thanks for the info JD. Did I understand correctly that the price you > mentioned was for your engine only, not the coolers, exhaust, etc? BTW, > that's a mighty fine looking Titan :-) > > When I was planning to build another SS (not Super Stretch ), I had > pretty much decided on the 912, rather than the 912S. Either is plenty of > power for a SS, and the 912 was cheaper, and burns 87 octane. As for the > trade, I don't think that's really what I'm shooting for at the moment. > The > choice between 912 and 912S was tight for me, and since I have the 912S > already, I'll keep it if I decide to stay with the Rotax. I just can't get > this rotary thought out of my head, and think it might be worth selling > the > 912S to follow my obviously masochistic tendencies :-) > > Cheers, > Rusty (hope I don't end up taking as long as Richard ) > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:31 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Betcha it is.............. :-) Well, rusty, anyway. Do not archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> > > ------------------- > > Sorry, I should have realized that. Weren't we already picking on him > years > ago when I was on the list before? I bet his plane isn't moldy though :-) > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:16 AM PST US From: Airgriff2@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: (no subject) --> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com http://www.springeraviation.net/database.html With all the new pilots and builders on board lately, I wanted to remind people of the Kolb builders and pilots list found at the above site. Others may want to update their information ,if necessary. Fly safe Bob Griffin ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:03 AM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: [ Steve Boetto ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" "Flys Water" Is that similar to `gnats piss`? Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:20 AM PST US From: "Bob and Jenn B" Subject: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob and Jenn B" It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some. It's not something to be taken lightly or completely skipped. Your center of gravity can affect the way your aircraft handles in normal flight, however on a Kolb or any other very light aircraft it is generally negligable. A trim tab can adjust the normal flying qualities. The problem starts primarily when you approach a stall. If your CG is within the proper range (I believe the consensus is 37% aft of the leading edge if you used that as your datam line, my twinstar originally said 40% and the new Kolbs say 35%), the aircraft should not enter a non-recoverable flat spin. It may still spin, which is based on other factors, but you should be able to recover. With too much weight on the tail, you will not have enough elevator authority lower the angle of attack to flying attitude. So unless you want to be a test pilot, I would suggest you know exactly where your CG is with both full fuel and no fuel. While you are doing your calculations, you can check your empty weight and useful load based on the gross weight of the aircraft. I think many pilots would be surprised how far over gross weight they are flying or have flown. Gross weight listed by Kolb is conservative, as it should be. Certified aircraft are as well. We need that extra conservative number to take into account the builders accuracy and thoroughness while building the aircraft as well as the standard gust factors (atmospheric bumps) which can produce multiple G forces. Obviously we are flying ultralights and homebuilt aircraft and can do what we want (for now until you need to certify it by January 31, 2008), but we need to be smart about it. Fly safe. Bob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:07 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" and I had | to deadstick my RV-3 into a Navy helicopter field. Plane and pilot are fine, | engine is not. I'll be taking the plane apart in the morning to haul it | back to the hanger :-( | | Cheers, | Rusty (very tired) Morning Rusty/All: Sorry to hear about the problem. Any idea why the oil cooler would rupture? 912 owners and operators should not have to worry about that particular problem. The cooler is on the vacumn side of the oil pump. Think it might implode? ;-) Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:28 AM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com > >" It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some." I've never heard of a Kolb crash due to an aft CG, or ever heard if a Kolb getting into a flat spin. Of course I only been around Kolbs for about 15 years..... Snuf Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:21 AM PST US From: BKlebon@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:41 AM PST US From: BKlebon@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com Snuf' There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in which Dennis talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home to get the scales. If I remember correctly, the owner/builder was a rather tall fellow and moved the seat attachment point back quite a bit to accomodate his heigth. They took the plane to the airport and forgot the scales. The test pilot apparently couldn't compensate for the aft CG condition and crashed. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:16 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" which Dennis | talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home | to get the scales. Good Morning BKlebon@aol.com/Gang: I must have missed that particular newsletter and article. I too, have never heard of an aft cg accident in a Kolb aircraft. Of course, that does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of accidents out there that happen and no one ever knows anything about them. For the most part, I have done a lot of experimentation, flown quite a few hours at different cg configurations in the original Firestar and my MKIII. Although I have no numbers to back up what I say, I have found no aft cg problem with either aircraft. Recently, I swapped out a Maule 6" solid rubber tailwheel (6 or 7 lbs) for a Maule 8" pneumatic Tundra Tail Wheel (10 to 11 lbs with the hardware). There was a slight difference from the previous normal level flight attitude of the MKIII. Stall tests in all the different attitudes that I could think of, resulted in the MKIII promptly dropping her nose. Never got into a situation that she wanted to fall tail low. Also I might note, the Firestar and MKIII were controllable in roll attitude right through the stall. I am not encouraging anyone to load up their Kolb in an aft cg configuration and go out and fly. Simply trying to illustrate that these two Kolb aircraft are/were quite forgiving throughout their extreme cg range. For example, in addition to the heavy tailwheel, I have a 25 gal aluminum fuel tank behind the bulkhead with 150 lbs of fuel (25 gal) when it is topped off. Then I stash another 100 lbs of gear in the cargo compartment under the fuel tank in the cargo compartment. Add to that, a 912ULS with 4" prop extension and a 3 blade 72" Warp Drive. Also, the tailsection has been beefed up during repairs and overhauls, and there's a lot of dope and paint back there, adding more weight. Some compensation for a heavy tail is made by moving the main landing gear approximately 8" forward, plus 6 or 8 MRE's in the nose pod, and those items I carry on the front seat, under the seats, behind the left seat, and Miss P'fer's toolbag, which rides on the deck in front of the left seat. Be careful out there. If you are bound and determined to make changes, make little ones and go slowly. Our sport is a lot of fun, exciting, but can have very serious consequences if we push too far, too fast. Take care, john h Titus, Alabama 1992 MKIII - 2,261.8 hours 2000 912ULS - 915.9 hours 1987 Firestar - 1,135.0 hours 1984 Ultrastar - 385.0 hours Hours in my three Kolbs - 3,781.8 hours (Not counting time in Kolb Factory aircraft and others) (Equates to 260,835 statute miles) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:02 AM PST US From: Lee.Creech@ky.gov Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov Aside from the stall/spin scenario, another potential problem with a too-far-aft CG is that it makes an airplane more sensitive to elevator inputs, and thus more difficult to flare smoothly without porpoising. This situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs that Kolbers have incurred. Lee Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: BKlebon@aol.com [mailto:BKlebon@aol.com] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: BKlebon@aol.com Snuf' There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in which Dennis talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home to get the scales. If I remember correctly, the owner/builder was a rather tall fellow and moved the seat attachment point back quite a bit to accomodate his heigth. They took the plane to the airport and forgot the scales. The test pilot apparently couldn't compensate for the aft CG condition and crashed. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:18 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 12:48 PM 12/11/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" > >Jack, >I appreciate your comments. I have accepted the hand I have been delt. I ................................... >It gathers me up and takes me flying and that's what's important. > Dale, That pretty much says it all. How can a non-flyer ever understand what it feels like to sit at the end of the runway and to ease the throttle forward? And for List lurker timid souls, this is for you: "Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor Roosevelt So get with it, and speak up on the List. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO do not archive Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:27 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=rPTPjfdSY4lQk/N2BS6rcnl3nCjutG3TGqXNFF7Oar4lC0o42sIAMXMRs0N6s1ci329Erpzez/jiaottun5ZcRWw6aQ4liaan3c0uG0DZYN0f87cdCQhyyNlls5//oDt+Xrg41ol3oUtyWvtDhw1J8byZm9acnyCFzcLUvXkKB4= ; From: Steve Kroll Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll Dale, Jack, and Kolbers..... I'm glad to see you guys writing about dissabilities and how you are coping with them in order to keep flying. I too have a dissability that is slowly twisting me up like a pretzel. Mine is RA (rheumatoid arthritis) which, contrary to general opinion, is not a disease of old people. I was 28 when this thing hit me like a ton of bricks and I've been disabled basically ever since. I'm 58 now. I decided to build a Mk-2 and bought a kit in 1988 from Homer and company at Oshkosh that year. Because of the arthritis, it took me the better part of 10 years to get it together. But in 1998 I did finally get it finished and flew it for the first time. It was perhaps, the most satisfying moment of my life and for quite some time afterward, I was without pain or any symptoms at all which, I think. is direct proof of the mind/body connection. Now...some years later, I am dealing with some severe symptoms again, the most difficult being short-term memory problems. I know that, unless I am able to resolve this symptom, soon it will not be safe for me to fly and I'll have to quit. I am not looking forward to that day but I am very grateful that I had the opportunity at all. Steve --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:13 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=IoVxCg27AqXznlc5ymAaodIJ/eTHklNa/hYJnSBYP+Oe6L2fIzqwAN9+nrC+pB8i8Q9o+Qh3jWNcHuFgXlIk5qRoVYZsRnnDHy2+jpqwFzGN/42NAfFj74qDIjcCz51BtkdaHn/E3XvaHMU2B7y5NIRcnja8Z/W9yuNZydNCQpo= ; From: ray anderson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson All, O.K., I'll make myself Scrooge again here at Christmas. John, let's be realistic about this. You have thousands of hours experience, have a natural born ability to fly. Many, many newcomers are coming into the sport, many with Kolbs. Yes, the Kolb is a forgiving airplane, up to a point. The Kolb, or any other airplane with a significant aft C.G. is something waiting to bite an inexperienced pilot. There are plenty of documented examples of trained aerobatic and or test pilots forced to leave such aircraft which have entered flat spins. Saying it hasn't happened to a particular plane, Kolb or otherwise, doesn't erase the fact that IT CAN HAPPEN. Inexperienced , new pilots, should have this drilled into their minds. First, if the inspector who signed off their plane with such a deficiency, out of bounds CG, is either unqualified to be an inspector of a deliberate fraud, endangering the life of the inexperienced builder who expects him to catch deficiencies that would endanger his life. At the moment, most so called ultralights are "fat" in weight but the FAA has been overlooking this because it doesn't endanger lives, but there is a limit on their looking the other way. If you are flying out of recommended C.G limits, any way you want to rationalize it, you are ILLEGAL in a dangerous way. It's a simple procedure to bring any Kolb into proper limits and fly with a comfortable feeling, both in the smooth way it performs, and knowing that if that rare ramp inspector does stop you and ask for your paper work, you can hand it to him with confidence. When you re-register under the new rules and regs you are going to have to have legal figures to present, Why not do it in the first place and relax. Just add a little weight where needed and forget it. In most cases we're talking about adding the weight of about 1-1/2 gals. of gas. in the nose or tail. Don't push your luck just to show that you can do it. Don't play Dale Earnhart and tweak the devils nose and pay a price. Old Scrooge | There was an article in one of the "old" Kolb newsletters in which Dennis | talked about a test pilot crashing a Firestar while the owner went back home | to get the scales. Good Morning BKlebon@aol.com/Gang: I must have missed that particular newsletter and article. I too, have never heard of an aft cg accident in a Kolb aircraft. Of course, that does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of accidents out there that happen and no one ever knows anything about them. For the most part, I have done a lot of experimentation, flown quite a few hours at different cg configurations in the original Firestar and my MKIII. Although I have no numbers to back up what I say, I have found no aft cg problem with either aircraft. Recently, I swapped out a Maule 6" solid rubber tailwheel (6 or 7 lbs) for a Maule 8" pneumatic Tundra Tail Wheel (10 to 11 lbs with the hardware). There was a slight difference from the previous normal level flight attitude of the MKIII. Stall tests in all the different attitudes that I could think of, resulted in the MKIII promptly dropping her nose. Never got into a situation that she wanted to fall tail low. Also I might note, the Firestar and MKIII were controllable in roll attitude right through the stall. I am not encouraging anyone to load up their Kolb in an aft cg configuration and go out and fly. Simply trying to illustrate that these two Kolb aircraft are/were quite forgiving throughout their extreme cg range. For example, in addition to the heavy tailwheel, I have a 25 gal aluminum fuel tank behind the bulkhead with 150 lbs of fuel (25 gal) when it is topped off. Then I stash another 100 lbs of gear in the cargo compartment under the fuel tank in the cargo compartment. Add to that, a 912ULS with 4" prop extension and a 3 blade 72" Warp Drive. Also, the tailsection has been beefed up during repairs and overhauls, and there's a lot of dope and paint back there, adding more weight. Some compensation for a heavy tail is made by moving the main landing gear approximately 8" forward, plus 6 or 8 MRE's in the nose pod, and those items I carry on the front seat, under the seats, behind the left seat, and Miss P'fer's toolbag, which rides on the deck in front of the left seat. Be careful out there. If you are bound and determined to make changes, make little ones and go slowly. Our sport is a lot of fun, exciting, but can have very serious consequences if we push too far, too fast. Take care, john h Titus, Alabama 1992 MKIII - 2,261.8 hours 2000 912ULS - 915.9 hours 1987 Firestar - 1,135.0 hours 1984 Ultrastar - 385.0 hours Hours in my three Kolbs - 3,781.8 hours (Not counting time in Kolb Factory aircraft and others) (Equates to 260,835 statute miles) --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:21 AM PST US From: "Wayne F.Wilson" Subject: Kolb-List: Slingshot for sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Wayne F.Wilson" Hi everyone As some of you are aware I had a hard landing with my SS. My family is not excited about me flying it again. I would like to sell it complete as is. If anyone has any interest or knows of someone it will make a very cheap great flying SS. If any one has advise as to what I should do I would appreciate the help also. I have made a list of all the parts which are still good, for example wings and tail feathers are not even scratched, along with what has to be replaced. It would not take very long to get it flying again. Any interest or questions contact me off list at wfwilson1@yahoo.ca of 519-736-0577 Thanks for any assistance. Yours truly Wayne F Wilson SS 009 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:14 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=UW6UWWdwc0cRhDt/FTSQMeMjJoUYGe5//fg/TBtiaVFRuuS92n0yKo5+bgdM3gOj06obdLLnMXhJ+9aTq4Bll1HMRFUTsG1bfRDiZSR0GEO09lJdRPK4MzNy86Y0nAoUUZ3+l+hYptDsmIjFfoaRJpj2Bt/sgBP0cYQFlaj+h2A= ; From: Steve Kroll Subject: Kolb-List: 503 losing power --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll List, I have a 503 single carb, points ignition with about 200 hours on it. Recently it has started to lose power in surges. It only drops a few hundred RPM when it does it and it comes back to full RPM but it sure gets my attention! I rebuilt the carburator but the conditiion in the engine still exists. Anybody got any idea what may be causing this power loss? Thanks, Steve --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:47 AM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" The Kolb, or any other airplane with a significant aft C.G. is something waiting to bite an inexperienced pilot. >> Hi all, Three points I would like to make about flying out of CG limits. One is. Don`t do it. You may get away with it. Aircraft do not usually come onto the market which are not fairly forgiving, but Newton is as surely waiting in the wings as Neptune is waiting for sailors. Two. I do not understand your measurement of CG apparently in percentages. In the UK there is a datum, usually the leading edge of the wing and the C of G must fall within an allowable variation fore and aft of that point. If it doesn`t and the inspector picks it up on the annual. You are grounded. Just as a matter of self preservation I would not dream of flying outside CG limits. Its attempted suicide. I might push the MTOW a bit but the C of G. Never. Three. Remember the old motto which we have all seen stuck in cockpits during our flying lives. AIRPLANES BITE FOOLS. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:37 AM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com "aircraft which have entered flat spins. Saying it hasn't happened to a particular plane, Kolb or otherwise, doesn't erase the fact that IT CAN HAPPEN." You seem to be quite knowledgable about aerodynamics. Could you tell me how far aft the CG on my Mark3 has to be in order for it to maintain a flat spin? Thanks! Snuf ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:20 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 503 losing power --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Check your point gap. If that's not it, then we go further. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 09:05 AM 12/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll > >List, > >I have a 503 single carb, points ignition with about 200 hours on >it. Recently it has started to lose power in surges. It only drops a few >hundred RPM when it does it and it comes back to full RPM but it sure gets >my attention! I rebuilt the carburator but the conditiion in the engine >still exists. Anybody got any idea what may be causing this power loss? > >Thanks, > >Steve > > >--------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:56 AM PST US From: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL Subject: Kolb-List: Verner Mark-III Update --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL Kolb Friends - I flew my Mark-III this past weekend for the first time in five months, and decided to post a Flight Report for your interest. After all, if Duane the Plane does it ... The big time gap since my last flight (July) was due to several reasons: I had carb jet issues on my Bing carburetors that needed working out, did several maintenance items as part of an annual, then I got evicted from the hangar I was renting (am in a different hangar now, at an airport closer to home), and I also had to get my BFR renewed. Since I flew last, I also increased my prop pitch to 12.5 degrees (PowerFin 3-blade, 72" diam). I am now flying out of a little airport of 6500 feet elevation. Flying solo, I'm seeing 800 fpm climb rate at 50 mph, climbing out with wide open throttle at 4100 rpm. I noted the following cruise values at 8000 and 9000 feet MSL. I'm including True Airspeed conversions, because at these altitudes, the difference is significant. Also recall: the prop is turning half the engine RPMs - prop reduction is 2-to-1 on the Verner. 3800 rpm - 74 mph 3600 rpm - 68 mph 3400 rpm - 62 mph 3200 rpm - 56 mph 3000 rpm - 48 mph - minimum rpm to maintain level flight This proves to me how efficient our Kolbs are at low flight speeds - able to maintain level flight at 1500 prop rpm's. Very neighbor friendly at these prop speeds, too. I believe this is the best performance I'm gonna get from this engine/prop combination. On a different topic: I am enjoying the benefit of the wing-fold feature of our Kolb airplanes. When I decided to move to an airport closer to home, I learned that there was a year-long waiting list for rentable hangar space. Instead of waiting, I spoke to a few folks who were already in hangars, asking if they would mind sharing some hangar floorspace with a folding wing airplane. Got immediate response - most people are anxious to save money. I ended up sharing a hangar with a Piper Pacer. The 7 feet of extra space along the side of his hangar is plenty for me to tuck in my folded Mark-III, and everybody benefits! Love those Kolbs! Dennis Kirby N93DK, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:49 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean On 13, Dec 2004, at 10:35 AM, Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov > > Aside from the stall/spin scenario, another potential problem with a > too-far-aft CG is that it makes an airplane more sensitive to elevator > inputs, and thus more difficult to flare smoothly without porpoising. > This > situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs > that > Kolbers have incurred. Maybe I'm mistaken here but I was always under the impression that aft CG had a tendency to moderate pitch inputs (mushy) and extreme forward CGs made it twitchy. Have to admit to being too lazy to look it up for confirmation, gotta go walk the doggy. -BB do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:26 AM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Kolb Weight & Balance Enthusiasts, The following statement submitted in a post to this list is totally correct IF: -- You are flying a FAR Part 23 certificated aircraft OR -- You are flying an aircraft that has been tested to the CG limits listed by the manufacturer. >> If you are flying out of recommended CG limits, any way you want to rationalize it, you are ILLEGAL in a dangerous way. As an example, I tested my Kolbra to try and reach the factory listed numbers of "It should be greater than 20% and less than 35%." At a forward CG of 27%, there was not enough elevator authority to lift off the runway at 60 mph. Sure I could have got it in the air at an even higher speed but then I would not of had any elevator left to slow down to land. My forward CG limit is 28%. When flight testing the aft CG location at 38.5%, the power off stall was still normal Kolb but nearly full forward stick was required to keep from entering a secondary stall. With the CG at 38% there is adequate, plus some, elevator authority. Mt aft CG limit is 38%. I have to add that just increasing the power would fly out of the stall at aft CG. These numbers, 28%-38% are my CG envelope. These are the numbers that I as the manufacturer of my Kolbra have determined by flight testing and entered into my aircraft logbook and airplane operating handbook. These are the numbers the FAA see when they do my ramp checks. (Yes I have been checked.) If you built your Kolb and it comes in close to the recommended forward limit be very careful. You will run out of elevator when you try to slow down. If you built your Kolb and it comes in close to the recommended aft limit be very careful. Use temporary weights to get in in the recommended CG range and in small CG changes, flight test it to find what is near its true limit or a number you can live with short of the true aft limit. If you did not build your Kolb, then you need to test it and verify what the builder has left you for a CG envelope. Remember that what a kit manufacturer is a guide. What we determine as the manufacturer of our Kolb's is LAW. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 703 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot Zenith CH701 Project http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:40 PM PST US From: Lee.Creech@ky.gov Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov You made me wonder if I had it right, but according to my ancient copy of "Aviation Fundamentals": "If the aircraft should be loaded so that the CG is located behind the aft CG limits, the following conditions will occur, becoming more severe as the CT movers farther aft . . . the aircraft becomes more unstable and difficult to control." After I bought my FS2 from a builder who was heaver than me, I found that some added weight in the nose cone made it noticeably better behaved in pitch. Lee Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: robert bean [mailto:slyck@frontiernet.net] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance Maybe I'm mistaken here but I was always under the impression that aft CG had a tendency to moderate pitch inputs (mushy) and extreme forward CGs made it twitchy. Have to admit to being too lazy to look it up for confirmation, gotta go walk the doggy. -BB do not archive > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:29 PM PST US From: bryan green Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green robert bean wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean > > >On 13, Dec 2004, at 10:35 AM, Lee.Creech@ky.gov wrote: > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lee.Creech@ky.gov >>This >>situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs >>that >>Kolbers have incurred. >> >> > As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I started let me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had everything to do with flairing the plane to high and landing 4 feet above the runway. :~) > > >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:50 PM PST US From: "Dale Sellers" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" Thanks Jack. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack & Louise Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > > At 12:48 PM 12/11/04 -0500, you wrote: >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" >> >>Jack, >>I appreciate your comments. I have accepted the hand I have been delt. I > > ................................... > >>It gathers me up and takes me flying and that's what's important. >> > > Dale, > > That pretty much says it all. How can a non-flyer ever understand > what it feels like to sit at the end of the runway and to ease the > throttle forward? > > And for List lurker timid souls, this is for you: > > "Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - > Eleanor > Roosevelt > > So get with it, and speak up on the List. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Jackson, MO > > do not archive > > > Jack & Louise Hart > jbhart@ldd.net > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:15 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | >>This | >>situation may have contributed to at least some of the bent gear legs | >>that | >>Kolbers have incurred. | >> | >> | > As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I started let me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had everything to do with flairing the plane to high and landing 4 feet above the runway. :~) Hi Bryan G/Gang: Whoopee! At least one soul on the Kolb List is honest. I know I have bent my share of gear legs, aluminum as well as steel, and it wasn't because of aft cg. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:59 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: mo CG --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Guess I was, as the Fonz would say, R-R-R, mistaken. This model airplane article says it well. http://www.eng.um.edu.mt/~andebo/aero/mod_stab.htm Because of the forward pitching moment caused by the wing at cruise the tail surfaces constantly have to be pushing downward. If the CG is moved aft the downward force required is less and the aircraft becomes more efficient (faster) -In addition less elevator effort is necessary so the plane would become more responsive to an equal stick force. So I guess an aft CG is gooder and gooder until.........? -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:45 PM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" I hate it when I do that!!! AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance >> As one of the low time Kolbers that bent gear legs when I started >> let me assure you it had nothing to do with CG. It had everything to do >> with flairing the plane to high and landing 4 feet above the runway. :~) >> > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:54 PM PST US From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> Any idea why the oil cooler would rupture? 912 owners and operators should not have to worry about that particular problem. The cooler is on the vacumn side of the oil pump. Think it might implode? ;-) -------------------- (RD) Thanks for the comments John, and Denny. Wings are in the hanger, but the fuselage is still at the Navy field awaiting a flatbed wrecker in the morning. Won't know the real cause until I get it back to the hanger for further inspection. Just assuming it's the cooler at this point. Once again, I show my ignorance of the 912 by not realizing that the oil cooler is on the suction side of the pump. This wouldn't be possible with a normal wet sump system, but it does seem like a good idea to take advantage of when using a dry sump. Thanks for mentioning it. Rusty (really don't know what I'll do next) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:19 PM PST US From: "David L. Bigelow" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail Heavy Firestar --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" My "Original Kolb" Firestar contstruction manual lists 35 % MAC as the aft CG limit. There's no discrimination between the FS1 and FS2. Dave Bigelow FS2, Kamuela, HI ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:45 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" Rusty, Sorry to hear about your problem. Obviously you did all the right things to get her back down & walk away grumpy & not lumpy. I had two friends who didn't. You did Good. Do not archive ........PS, I'll either be putting off the SS for a while, or working on it full force to get it flying ASAP. My change of schedule came this afternoon when my oil cooler ruptured, smoke filled the cockpit from an oil fire, and I had to deadstick my RV-3 into a Navy helicopter field. Plane and pilot are fine, engine is not. I'll be taking the plane apart in the morning to haul it back to the hanger :-( Cheers, Rusty (very tired) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:47 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" Hey Lar, Summer was a long time ago. I reckon we'll have to do it again! Do not archive ......Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am I gonna hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" > > > Hey Rusty, > I know you'd been off this List for a while, so we can cut you some > slack, but in the future if you have any wise cracks about taking a long > time to finish a project, you are suppose to use Big Lar as the worst > standard of measurement, not me as you did below. ...Richard Swiderski > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> > > > Thanks for the info JD. Did I understand correctly that the price you > mentioned was for your engine only, not the coolers, exhaust, etc? BTW, > that's a mighty fine looking Titan :-) > > When I was planning to build another SS (not Super Stretch ), I had > pretty much decided on the 912, rather than the 912S. Either is plenty of > power for a SS, and the 912 was cheaper, and burns 87 octane. As for the > trade, I don't think that's really what I'm shooting for at the moment. > The > choice between 912 and 912S was tight for me, and since I have the 912S > already, I'll keep it if I decide to stay with the Rotax. I just can't get > this rotary thought out of my head, and think it might be worth selling > the > 912S to follow my obviously masochistic tendencies :-) > > Cheers, > Rusty (hope I don't end up taking as long as Richard ) > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:35 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=owKCj0dk/IOqGvB7j50ftje1Zj2pwndyrqw3Uk4gEVljE5ncoxKps+8gP9fQB8Y60DlPZ9+jPXQkS3eHhWWc71qTIkdjWUAEBdnAFEgbbPFDc1pb89zjC3+ndsyM0AYoPyzngQK3Q9CI2ChzuJF5OX496AOfTJVkDIOeE7cX/Hk= ; From: artdog1512 Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly .... --> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 how much weight can you put in the driver's seat of a FireFly? ..... tim __________________________________ Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:36 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: First WetFly Flight --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com Hello to All, Well we did it, The WetFly flew today. Bryan said it was easier than on wheels. Also I did two flights today. This was my first time in a Firefly.What a great flying airplane. Hats off to Duane for building this one and also to Homer. I will post pictures later. Steve Boetto WetFly #007 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:35 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" Listers, Regarding the aft cg limit, Homer himself told me the Kolb wing defies convention, and that 39% is the furthest I should go. When I do my w & b, I'll give myself an extra degree of safety, & sleep well if I'm 38%. Richard Swiderski -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight and Balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com > >" It's disappointing to hear the lack of concern of W&B with some." I've never heard of a Kolb crash due to an aft CG, or ever heard if a Kolb getting into a flat spin. Of course I only been around Kolbs for about 15 years..... Snuf Do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:41 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly .... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 06:46 PM 12/13/04 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 > > > how much weight can you put in the driver's >seat of a FireFly? ..... tim > Tim, Gross weight listed by New Kolb Aircraft Company is 500 pounds. Subtract the ready to fly weight of your FireFly with fuel tank topped off from 500 pounds and you have the maximum pilot in the seat weight. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:06 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" As much as I enjoyed the visit last summer, that sure won't be a hardship. Besides, we still hafta make the boat ride to Silver Springs. I just bought a little bigger and faster boat, with more room for all, so I'll look forward to it. But...........you'll hafta put the back seat back in the SS so I can go for a ride. :-) Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fair price for used 912S? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" > > > Hey Lar, > > Summer was a long time ago. I reckon we'll have to do it again! > > Do not archive > > > ......Dog-gone it, I thought we'd made friends last summer.........?? Am > I > gonna > hafta come back there and start all over next summer ?? Vamoose ?? Next > weekend.........promise. :-) Lyin' Lar. > Do > not Archive. > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:10 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Flying on the Cheap --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" Dale, Jack, Steve & All I too am impressed with the sharing & bearing of your disabilities. My four year struggle with a mystery debilitation of unknown cause has certainly affected my outlook on life. As I am now making a significant recovery these last few months, mine appears not to be permanent. I have come to appreciate all that I have been blessed to experience with an intensity & clarity I did not have before. The utter privilege to have flown, to have created machines of flight is only known by a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all humanity thru the ages. And as rare a privilege that is, having a loving wife, 2 wonderful children, family, & friends that have not forgotten me, is even more precious. Three years ago, when my doctor told me I might have MS, which my father was dying from at the time, I had an extraordinary revelation: that I had already been gifted with more blessings than several men would have in their combined life times. When I was 17, I was electrocuted in a skydiving accident, stopped breathing & left my body, but was sent back. My two brothers never made it past 21. God has seen fit to keep me around in spite of good reasons not to. Life is precious & it is also short. Let's fly safe & dream big. This List has been a great resource for me, but your stories have impressed me to read it with the idea keeping in prayer my fellow Kolbers in need. I am thankful for your inspiration, & I will be doing that. Richard Swiderski Moldy SlingShot Waiting To Fly "Only faith can guarantee the blessings that we hope for, or prove the existence of the realities that at present remain unseen." Heb 11:1 - -> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll Dale, Jack, and Kolbers..... I'm glad to see you guys writing about dissabilities and how you are coping with them in order to keep flying. I too have a dissability that is slowly twisting me up like a pretzel. Mine is RA (rheumatoid arthritis) which, contrary to general opinion, is not a disease of old people. I was 28 when this thing hit me like a ton of bricks and I've been disabled basically ever since. I'm 58 now. I decided to build a Mk-2 and bought a kit in 1988 from Homer and company at Oshkosh that year. Because of the arthritis, it took me the better part of 10 years to get it together. But in 1998 I did finally get it finished and flew it for the first time. It was perhaps, the most satisfying moment of my life and for quite some time afterward, I was without pain or any symptoms at all which, I think. is direct proof of the mind/body connection. Now...some years later, I am dealing with some severe symptoms again, the most difficult being short-term memory problems. I know that, unless I am able to resolve this symptom, soon it will not be safe for me to fly and I'll have to quit. I am not looking forward to that day but I am very grateful that I had the opportunity at all. Steve ---------------------------------