Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Center of Lift and CG (David L. Bigelow)
2. 03:02 AM - Re: UltraStar weight and balance (Daniel Walter)
3. 04:37 AM - Re: mo CG (Thom Riddle)
4. 04:53 AM - Kolb-List Digest: - 12/14/04, John's W/B numbers? (Jim Gerken)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: mo CG (GeoR38@aol.com)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: 503 losing power (Mhqqqqq@aol.com)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Center of Lift and CG (Richard Pike)
8. 07:52 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: - 12/14/04, John's W/B numbers? (John Hauck)
9. 07:55 AM - cg (boyd young)
10. 08:08 AM - Re: cg (John Hauck)
11. 08:33 AM - Pitching moment? (Jeremy Casey)
12. 11:33 AM - Re: 503 losing power (Steve Kroll)
13. 03:02 PM - First flight in my Kolb (Carl Trollope)
14. 03:02 PM - FS II construction (curtis groote)
15. 04:45 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (Larry Bourne)
16. 05:08 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (robert bean)
17. 05:31 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (Beauford)
18. 06:16 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (Richard Harris)
19. 06:38 PM - Re: 503 losing power (Wayne T. McCullough)
20. 06:47 PM - Re: FS II construction (John Hauck)
21. 06:48 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (John Hauck)
22. 06:59 PM - First Flight After Unprepared Year's Storage (John Hauck)
23. 07:03 PM - Re: 503 losing power (John Hauck)
24. 07:25 PM - 'Chutes .... (artdog1512)
25. 07:25 PM - Re: First flight in my Kolb (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Center of Lift and CG |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
I disagree with some of what you say below, Richard.
*******************
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
"The lift applied by the wing is not symmetrical with respect to the surface
area of the wing. When you look at a cross section of an airfoil showing
the distribution of lift, the front fourth generates very little lift, and
the rear two thirds (roughly) most of the lift. And depending on how the
back fourth of the airfoil is shaped, you can have big changes in the
pitching moment of the wing. If you look at airfoils used for flying wings,
they generally have a lot of reflex in the back end of the airfoil to act
like a "mini-elevator" to control the angle of attack of the wing,
counteract the rotation of the lifting moment around the cg, and prevent
pitch over. But the trade off is that flying wing airfoils are less
efficient than "standard" airfoils."
*****************************
The center of lift of most airfoils falls in the range of 25%-35% of the chord
measured from the front. This depends on the particular airfoil and the angle
of attack of the airfoil. The further aft the maximum thickness point of the
airfoil, the further aft the center of lift is located. For a conventional tailed
aircraft, the center of gravity should be kept forward of the wing's center
of lift to maintain pitch stability. As the CG moves backward towards the
center of lift, the aircraft will become less pitch stable and be more "twitchy"
in pitch.
A very pitch stable tailed aircraft will be designed so that the horizontal stabilizer
is at or near zero degrees angle of attack when the wing is at a stall
angle of attack (12-15 degrees). As the designer decrease the angle of attack
of the horizontal stabilizer in relation to the wing angle of attack, pitch
stability decreases.
Measuring from the plans on my FS, the difference between wing chord angle and
horizontal stabilizer is 6 degrees. This will produce an aircraft that can be
expected to have only slightly positive pitch stability. This tracks with my
own Kolb flying experience, i.e. bump the stick and let it go after trimming
pitch neutral. The Kolb makes quite a few pitch oscillations before returning
to trimmed level flight.
If the aircraft has a CG too far rearward, the aircraft will not return to trimmed
level flight when the pitch is disturbed. Another clue whether or not the
aircraft CG is correct is to look back at the elevator when flying at cruise
speed. The elevator should be pretty close to being faired with the horizontal
stabilizer.
Luckily for all , the Kolb line is pretty well designed and very forgiving - ideal
for us home builders.
Dave Bigelow
FS2
Kamuela, HI
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UltraStar weight and balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Daniel Walter" <worrybear@verizon.net>
Dale, I had a nice fellow with a auto wrecker with an extendable boom lift
my Ultrastar for the W&B. He wanted pictures for his most unusual recovery
album.
Do Not Archive
Dan Walter
Ultrastar Ul202, 230 hours
Palmyra Pa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: UltraStar weight and balance
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
> While you guys are on the subject of weight and balance, I have a
question. I don't have any techical info on my US so I don't know how to do
a weight and balance on it. I have about 10 hours on it now and have wiped
out one set of gear on a paved runway and bent another. Unless I fly it on
at a pretty high speed, I've found that I can't get the nose up on flair. I
suspect a nose heavy problem. Someone told me once to lift the plane by the
main spar attach point but I don't have a way to lift it and if I did, I
don't know what the angle of the boom should be. Anybody know hou to do a
true weight and balance on a US?
>
> Dale Sellers
> Georgia UltraStar
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
4.6 Pitching moment
When using the Foilsim aerofoil flight test simulation program the
dynamic and static pressures around the aerofoil are given in the
output plot which shows the pressure distribution pattern changing with
the aoa. For convenience it is usual to sum that distribution and
represent it as one lift force vector acting from the centre of
pressure of the aerofoil or wing. The plot on the left is a
representation of the changing centre of pressure position with aoa.
The cp position is at a distance from the leading edge expressed as a
percentage of the chord.
At very small aoa (high speed) the cp is located around 60% chord; as
aoa increases (speed decreases) cp moves forward reaching its furthest
forward position around 30% chord at 10=B0 - 12=B0 aoa; which is usually
around the aoa for Vx, the best angle of climb speed. With further aoa
increases the cp now moves rearward; the rate of movement accelerating
as the stalling aoa, about 16=B0, is passed. Most normal flight
operations are conducted at angles between 2=B0 and 8=B0 thus the cp is
normally positioned between 35% and 45% of chord.
A moment is a force =D7 distance so the movement of the cp of the lift
force changes the pitching moment, applied about the centre of gravity;
which results in a potential change in the aircraft's attitude in
pitch, i.e. the aircraft's nose wants to move up or down. There is a
point in an aerofoil called the aerodynamic centre where the pitching
moment (lift force by arm length) about that point remains constant as
angle of attack changes. For the simple cambered aerofoils that we are
interested in, the aerodynamic centre is always forward of the cp and,
for most light aircraft wings, located around 25% of the chord distance
aft of the wing leading edge. The concept of the aerodynamic centre is
useful to designers because it means the centre of application of lift
can be assumed fixed and only the lift force changes with aoa. However
we, being simple folk, will stick with the concept of both the cp
location of the lift vector and the lift force changing as aoa changes.
This is from www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule4.html#aerofoils
Thom in Buffalo
=A0
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Kolb-List Digest: - 12/14/04, John's W/B numbers? |
12/15/2004 06:51:13 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>Pat/Gang:
>I am sure my MKIII is within its CG limits, not what the factory
publishes.
>It has been thoroughly tested over more than 2,000 hours, demonstrating no
tendancies
>for being set up beyond safe aft cg limits (for my airplane).
>Take care,
>john h
John H:
For clarity, could you please expand on the above statements?
Specifically, if you've done W/B measurements and calculations since adding
that new swiveling tailwheel, what numbers did you get (either in inches or
percentage of wing cord)? I would like to improve my tailwheel also, but
cannot imagine adding even one pound to the tail, because of current W/B
considerations. The moment arm to the tail is so long that adding a pound
back there makes it necessary to add about 6 in the nose. I would guess
your Maule tailwheel weighs maybe 5 pounds more than the stock setup I am
using. I cannot imagine where I'd find room for 30 pounds in the nose! My
battery is already in the nose, slightly ahead of the tubular structure.
There is nothing left to move forward, to counter a tailwheel upgrade.
Engine weight is all behind the center of lift, and my engine weighs less
than any of the Rotax four strokes, by 20 pounds or so! The plane is built
to plans. I am working to current Kolb-published (from my plans) limits
of 37% aft max limit. Obviously, I am wondering how you did it. Are you
using a car battery up front or what??!!
Thanks.
Jim G
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 12/14/2004 10:00:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
beauford@tampabay.rr.com writes:
Ray...
Outrage, Sir...!
I must take exception to your jocular reference to Lar's reference to "nose
heavy tendencies..." I feel
your petty personal attack on a seasoned Kolb builder of Lar's reputation to
be totally unwarranted, Sir..... Just because Lar is currently best known
as the premier constructor of Kolb non-flying southwestern-motif lawn and
porch furniture for the past half-decade, does not give you, good sir,
license to take cheap shots at my close personal friend.... He's certainly
doing the best he can under the outrageously difficult circumstances he has
been forced to cope with over the past two...er three... well, mebbe four
years..... and I, for one, have a child-like faith that whatever the hell
that thing is he is building / has built on his front porch will eventually
shake off the years of accumulated desert pigeon crap and mount to the skies
as on the wings of eagles... well, mebbe starlings.... or whatever.....
Anyway.... I'm absolutely sure he has, at a minimum, read a book somewheres
about flying Kolbs.... and he is, therefore, deserving of your full respect
when opining about how is is that Kolbs might actually come to fly, taxi
real fast, or sit stationary on a dusty front porch .....in a nose-heavy
condition.
So there....!
Beauford
FF#076
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "ray anderson" <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
> Hi Lar,
> "I knew you would be contributing sooner or later.What `nose heavy
> tendency?`
I don't know what you said, but how eloquent it was stated, Beaufort
George Randolph
firestar driver from the Villages, Fl
ps...if there really IS some porch furniture that Lar would disseminate to
the world...I NEED some...even if it looks a little like a plane
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mhqqqqq@aol.com
check the points, I had this problem and found my points were not opening
far enough
mark
s.e. minnesota
twinstar
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Center of Lift and CG |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Thanks for drawing my attention to my screwed up explanation. I guess what
I was trying to say, (and still may not get it right,) is that most of the
wing's lift lies behind the cg, (which is normally around the high point of
the airfoil) or the rear two thirds of the wing, which makes the wing want
to rotate forward/nose down. If you take a toy glider and take the tail
off, keep it balanced as it was when it flew good, and toss it, it usually
does an instant nose down tuck, which to me is a good illustration of how
the majority of the wing's lift is behind the cg.
But if you then take that airfoil and reflex the rear part, eventually you
can make it stable again. And on our Kolb airfoils, when the flaps come
down, it takes more up elevator to hold the nose up as the center of
pressure moves aft.
Here's a website I like that explains it so I can understand it -
http://www.pilotsweb.com/principle/lift.htm#result
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 12:04 AM 12/15/2004 -1000, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
>
>I disagree with some of what you say below, Richard.
>
>*******************
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>"The lift applied by the wing is not symmetrical with respect to the surface
>area of the wing. When you look at a cross section of an airfoil showing
>the distribution of lift, the front fourth generates very little lift, and
>the rear two thirds (roughly) most of the lift. And depending on how the
>back fourth of the airfoil is shaped, you can have big changes in the
>pitching moment of the wing. If you look at airfoils used for flying wings,
>they generally have a lot of reflex in the back end of the airfoil to act
>like a "mini-elevator" to control the angle of attack of the wing,
>counteract the rotation of the lifting moment around the cg, and prevent
>pitch over. But the trade off is that flying wing airfoils are less
>efficient than "standard" airfoils."
>*****************************
>
>The center of lift of most airfoils falls in the range of 25%-35% of the
>chord measured from the front. This depends on the particular airfoil and
>the angle of attack of the airfoil. The further aft the maximum thickness
>point of the airfoil, the further aft the center of lift is located. For
>a conventional tailed aircraft, the center of gravity should be kept
>forward of the wing's center of lift to maintain pitch stability. As the
>CG moves backward towards the center of lift, the aircraft will become
>less pitch stable and be more "twitchy" in pitch.
>
>A very pitch stable tailed aircraft will be designed so that the
>horizontal stabilizer is at or near zero degrees angle of attack when the
>wing is at a stall angle of attack (12-15 degrees). As the designer
>decrease the angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer in relation to
>the wing angle of attack, pitch stability decreases.
>
>Measuring from the plans on my FS, the difference between wing chord angle
>and horizontal stabilizer is 6 degrees. This will produce an aircraft
>that can be expected to have only slightly positive pitch stability. This
>tracks with my own Kolb flying experience, i.e. bump the stick and let it
>go after trimming pitch neutral. The Kolb makes quite a few pitch
>oscillations before returning to trimmed level flight.
>
>If the aircraft has a CG too far rearward, the aircraft will not return to
>trimmed level flight when the pitch is disturbed. Another clue whether or
>not the aircraft CG is correct is to look back at the elevator when flying
>at cruise speed. The elevator should be pretty close to being faired with
>the horizontal stabilizer.
>
>Luckily for all , the Kolb line is pretty well designed and very forgiving
>- ideal for us home builders.
>
>Dave Bigelow
>FS2
>Kamuela, HI
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: - 12/14/04, John's W/B numbers? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Morning Jim G/Gang:
| For clarity, could you please expand on the above statements?
Would like to, but have no current numbers. We always had problems,
since day one, to get the weight and balance to work on the my MKIII.
I have done enough flight testing to prove to myself that the aircraft
is flying safely within "its" CG range. It will not agree with old or
new Kolb's numbers, but it will the manufacturer of my aircraft, me.
| I would like to improve my tailwheel also, butcannot imagine adding
even one pound to the tail, because of current W/B
| considerations.
The major difference in configuration of my airplane and "normal"
plans built MKIII's is the placement of the main gear and the
structure that carries it. Moving the main gear forward eight inches
has helped off set the heavy tailwheels I have always used, but not
significantly, considering where they are located just forward of the
middle bulkhead. I am also using 800X6 McQuery Airtrac tires and
tubes, heavier than normal wheels, brakes, and axles, but not that
much.
| I would guess
| your Maule tailwheel weighs maybe 5 pounds more than the stock setup
I am
| using.
Jim, probably more than 5 pounds. It is about 5 pounds more than the
6" solid Maule tailwheel I replaced. The 8" Maule Tundra Tailwheel
weighs about 10.5 lbs. I figured 11 lbs with hardware.
BTW, I have the battery in the normal location just in front of the
bulkhead.
| I am working to current Kolb-published (from my plans) limits
| of 37% aft max limit.
I am not working to "current Kolb-published limits".
Obviously, I am wondering how you did it. Are you
| using a car battery up front or what??!!
| Jim G
Basically, I bolted that big sucker up and went flight testing. No
big a__ car battery or anything else in the nose of Miss P'fer.
I will share with you that I had a little apprehension on take off and
was extremely careful until I got plenty altitude to start my testing.
Pitch attitude changed slightly, with the tail flying a little lower
at really slow speeds. However, made the overall feel of the aircraft
much better, does not required nearly as much nose up trim in cruise.
I put the MKIII through every kind of stall scenario I could think of.
Could not get her to drop the tail first or show me any nasty
responses. She flew just like she and all the rest of the Kolbs I
have flown over the years fly. Well behaved and ready to do my
bidding. I am well pleased with the outcome. Wish I had had this set
up prior to my last flight to Alaska. Would have been a lot easier on
the MKIII with the big pneumatic tire, and on the pilot trying to land
a heavy MKIII on pavement. Miss P'fer has turned back into the docile
baby on pavement, instead of a tiger. Have much more control keeping
her on the pavement.
It started during the flight to Monument Valley last May. I was
having a terrible time trying to control her landing on pavement.
Then I started having problems getting her off the pavement at MV.
Thought I was losing my touch. The new Maule with tapered roller
bearings on the pivot shaft, instead of the old, sticky, bronze
bushing, plus the struts on the lower tailpost, have really tightened
up the old gal and made her the sweet flying little airplane she
should be.
Sorry I can not give you numbers. Never have been good with them. I
have experiemented a bit over the years, usually knowing what my
airplane will and will not do. I have very little experience with
other fixed wing aircraft. Have specialized in Kolbs and glad I did.
Did not do that intentionally either. It just happened.
I have said this many many time in the past on the List and other
places. Kolb aircraft do things that make the aircraft engineers
scratch their head, look puzzled, and wonder why their numbers don't
agree with what the Kolb is/will do. I learned a long time ago that
some things in life happen and I will never be able to tell you why
they do what they do. I simple accept a good thing and enjoy it.
Take care,
john h
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
<rowedl@highstream.net>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
Patrick and others,
The center of gravity in all stable conventional aircraft is in front of the
wing so there is always a forward pitching moment that the tail must
overcome.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
-------------------------------
Denny you may have the corect concept but the wrong wording.....
the center of gravity should be infront of the center of lift. thus making the
plane stable... and forcing the tail surfaces to have a downward thrust.....
that said i have had a problem with another concept, can anyone help? i have
been told that the center of lift is usually around the 25% portion of the
wing. or the thickest part, the main spar. if that is so and the rear cg
limit is at 35% then the tail surface would have to be a lifting surface......
so in my feeble mind the center of lift would have to be a percentage of the
wing greater than the % of the wing in relation to the cg. what am i missing?
i know that the center of lift changes to the rear as the aircraft increases
in speed. but in the small speed changes the kolbs fly how much does
it change? and where is it in reality?
boyd
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
i know that the center of lift changes to the rear as the aircraft
increases in speed. but in the small speed changes the kolbs fly how
much does it change? and where is it in reality?
|
| boyd
Morning Boyd/Gang:
As I said in my last post. Some things I can not explain, so I accept
and enjoy. Kolb aircraft is one of the things I accept in my life.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Pitching moment? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Ladies and Gentlemen=85
Got to clarify one point that has been mismashed pretty bad
in the recent discussion on stability and airfoils and desert pigeon
crap=85 (huh?)
Anyway there are 2 different terms beings intertwined here that are in
fact very different critters.
1.Cg limits. Yes the center of gravity is always in FRONT of the center
of lift of the wing and the tail is actually producing DOWN force to
counteract the off balance. If the CG ever gets back to the actual
center of lift then the plane does what Richard Pike described about his
model and the Hummer with the light weight pilot=85it acts like the plane
is balanced on the head of a pin and will not even remotely act =93stable=94
(i.e. remove hands from stick and it semi-stays put=85) This is called
having no =93static margin=94 The further the CG moves in front of the
Center of lift then the greater the =93static margin=94 and the more
=93stable=94 the plane feels. This works right up until the point where you
move the CG forward so far that the tail cannot generate enough
=93downforce=94 to pick up the nose when you get slow (I.e. landing)
2.The second term that is being thrown around is =93pitching moment=94.
This is a tendency for an airfoil to generate a torque about the center
of lift (which is usually at the =BC chord point=85i.e. 4 ft chord wing, it
would be 1=92 back from the leading edge) This is usually a function of
how much camber the airfoil has. I highly cambered airfoil has a large
tendancy to rotate nose down at higher airspeeds, while a symmetrical
airfoil does not. This is as deep as this explanation needs to go
here=85just know that there are 2 different causes for the tendency for
the plane to pitch nose up or down and they both contribute to deciding
what the CG =93limits=94 are for stable, controllable flight at all
airspeeds. You can set these limits by careful calculation and testing
or by a lucky guess. Either way can work and either way can fail=85you be
the judge.
If you have a big curiousity as to why your airplane of choice behaves
like it does then get a couple of books from EAA or Aircraft Spruce. A
few good ones are GA airfoils by Harry Riblett, Airfoil Selection by
Barnaby Wainfan, and if you have some old copies of Sport Aviation or
the 50 year CDROM compilation then go back to around 90-91 and read the
series of articles on aircraft design by John Roncz.
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy@kilocharlie.us
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=ISO9Q6TxvR/l89D5PxuVCpWQ9aZvdtiK4kzC8BpBFxMf04Ss4gjLje/nSetgQwPcaHwQ4aMfdZqnHjwmGWU4XR9bmmH0q0azIAn2/agmM/Uo2f2Roc9euwX+8GUkqIbuaesEK5HAi5rbJ8Zis6vxqrJRzrYA3gm6wv1G2Wt/rw4=
;
| Subject: | Re: 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Thanks Will for the suggestion....I'll give that a shot too. With regard to the
loop, are you suggesting that the fuel line comes out of the carb and makes
this loop above or below the carb? I have noticed bubbles in the line before.
I have the same experience as you with the dead stick landing in the Kolb. Fortunately
for me, I was within easy reach of the field and I have plenty of experience
with dead stick as I learned to fly in a Sweitzer 2-33 and have probably
400 hours or so in all kinds of gliders. My Mk-2 is no glider as the glide
angle without power "looks" like 40 degrees at 50 MPH (that was a bit of a shock).
Some of the boys in here with Mk-3's probably have a little better penetration
than I do with the extra weight they carry but I expect their airplanes
come down in a hurry too without power.
Since my engine out, I tend to fly much higher than I used to, remembering that
40 degree glide angle and constantly looking down that angle at the possibilities
for a safe dead stick landing. It is lodged firmly in my mind now that
it is not IF, but WHEN the engine quits and it is always on my mind while in
flight. And hey, the view from 2000 AGL is even more beautiful than from 500
:-)
Steve
---------------------------------
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
Hi,
Just a few words to say that I have now flown my Kolb MkIII......
I completed my conversion from weightshift a couple of weeks ago in 5 hours
in an AX3... wow what an awful flying creation....
As soon as I had weather it was in the Kolb and away......
I had been concerned about landing it as I had had quite an exciting
experience on the delivery flight with its previous owner flying it....
Landing was proceeded by those Australian words of foreplay... brace
yourself....!!
Anyway with lots of words of advice from the list... I strapped in and away
we went..
I need not have worried as the landings were quite uneventful.... and the
approach to my field is very tricky.......
She flies very nicely indeed and has an impressive rate of climb compared to
my 447 powered Flash II......
Carl
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=xI3ZiejJf2zL+DAbHSLAI75gvukdCYKgW9Psh3wijbhO0kBd7HhAmBb4qruRsIZlRIn4E/Q3YYBkN2RGHgJ4dsu7BZyoScPgwAoLrVY8Xl+eytWLhO7nCi2sl6dQwjachQ0UDC1dHrqJ5xhk7oxTzcWIYnTbMKGQLqLz2yctvNQ=
;
| Subject: | FS II construction |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: curtis groote <cgroote1@yahoo.com>
I have the individual tail pieces, wings, and ailerons
assembled.
Two questions:
1)The order in the manual for temporary attachment of
the tailfeathers to the cage and fuselage tube is:
attach tailfeathers to the tube; insert fuselage tube
into cage; align tail to cage, drill the 3/8" holes in
fuselage tube for H-section; remove fuselage tube;
install H-section.
Would it be easier to insert tube into cage and
temporarily secure it; mark for the 3/8"holes; remove
tube and install H-section; reinsert and then attach
and align tailfeathers?
2)I'll need room in my workspace to do all the above
so I'll need to dismantle the 4'x12' worktable I built
the pieces on. Is there any further reason I'd need
the table at this point in construction? There doesn't
appear to be unless I'm missing something.
Thanks a lot.
Curt Groote
=====
__________________________________
Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Congratulations, Carl, good on you. You've got lots of room down there to
play with a toy like that, for sure. Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Kolb-List: First flight in my Kolb
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a few words to say that I have now flown my Kolb MkIII......
>
> I completed my conversion from weightshift a couple of weeks ago in 5
> hours
> in an AX3... wow what an awful flying creation....
>
> As soon as I had weather it was in the Kolb and away......
>
> I had been concerned about landing it as I had had quite an exciting
> experience on the delivery flight with its previous owner flying it....
>
> Landing was proceeded by those Australian words of foreplay... brace
> yourself....!!
>
> Anyway with lots of words of advice from the list... I strapped in and
> away
> we went..
>
> I need not have worried as the landings were quite uneventful.... and the
> approach to my field is very tricky.......
>
> She flies very nicely indeed and has an impressive rate of climb compared
> to
> my 447 powered Flash II......
>
> Carl
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Well done Carl. Now some of us will have to see what an AX3 is.
I imagine you will have a lot of fun demonstrating your Kolb to local
aviation. -BB do not archive
On 15, Dec 2004, at 6:01 PM, Carl Trollope wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carl Trollope"
> <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a few words to say that I have now flown my Kolb MkIII......
>
> I completed my conversion from weightshift a couple of weeks ago in 5
> hours
> in an AX3... wow what an awful flying creation....
>
> As soon as I had weather it was in the Kolb and away......
>
> I had been concerned about landing it as I had had quite an exciting
> experience on the delivery flight with its previous owner flying it....
>
> Landing was proceeded by those Australian words of foreplay... brace
> yourself....!!
>
> Anyway with lots of words of advice from the list... I strapped in and
> away
> we went..
>
> I need not have worried as the landings were quite uneventful.... and
> the
> approach to my field is very tricky.......
>
> She flies very nicely indeed and has an impressive rate of climb
> compared to
> my 447 powered Flash II......
>
> Carl
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Good on 'ya, Carl......
Welcome to the Kolb whatever the-hell-this is...... brotherhood, I
reckon.... (now you sisters out there, that was just a figure of speech...)
Here's wishing you countless fun-filled and safe hours in your machine...
Beauford, the aluminum butcher of chilly Brandon, Florida...
FF #076
P.S. Just wonderin'... do you need RIGHT rudder on takeoff....? I
mean... being down there and all....
just wonderin'....
b.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Kolb-List: First flight in my Kolb
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a few words to say that I have now flown my Kolb MkIII......
>
> I completed my conversion from weightshift a couple of weeks ago in 5
> hours
> in an AX3... wow what an awful flying creation....
>
> As soon as I had weather it was in the Kolb and away......
>
> I had been concerned about landing it as I had had quite an exciting
> experience on the delivery flight with its previous owner flying it....
>
> Landing was proceeded by those Australian words of foreplay... brace
> yourself....!!
>
> Anyway with lots of words of advice from the list... I strapped in and
> away
> we went..
>
> I need not have worried as the landings were quite uneventful.... and the
> approach to my field is very tricky.......
>
> She flies very nicely indeed and has an impressive rate of climb compared
> to
> my 447 powered Flash II......
>
> Carl
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
>
> Congratulations, Carl, good on you.
Hello, Kolb list ..I am back after almost a year of being out of the
country,( I work for a chemical company that has holdings in the middle East
and that's all I willl say about that) not being on the list or flying my
MK3..
It's Interesting to me that the list has not changed much, ( like
watching a soap on TV ) Everyone is still resenting John H. for his vast
experancince and knowledge of Kolb aircraft and willingness to help ANYONE,
Big Lar still has not got Vamoose in the air ( not much surprise there, hi
Lar. buddy ) , but most of all everyone is really enjoying their Kolb flying
machine, or soon to be flying maching ...and all subjects are getting really
good advice and discussion and a lot of help being offered.
I may need some help myself trying to get my MK 111 back in the air. I left
it just as it was when I landed the last time, left in a hurry, so no prep
for long time storage.
John, Big Lar, Yall come back to Arkansas and help and I will put you up
and feed you again. Treat you in so many ways you got to like some of
them..
Richard Harris
Arkansas
MK3 ser.# 233
N912RH
P.S. That CG thing is covered in all the stuff you get from the FAA,
Kolb,EAA, and the local club.. He, He.. sorry
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Wayne T. McCullough" <blackbird754@alltel.net>
Hey guys,
I read this board every day sometime a lot.....Still building on Kolbra Kit
#4 ......John Williamson , I will e-mail pics as work progresses, and thanks
to Paul Petty for the disc......Yep, its great to be on here with so much
experience and knowledge.
In Springfield, GA right above Savannah.....Yep, its cold here too.....Good
grief at all the pictures of Kolbs...Must come up with an outstanding paint
scheme to beat all of you....LOL......33 years in auto collision and wife
retired from corporate aviation......
Stay tuned.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kroll" <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 503 losing power
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Will for the suggestion....I'll give that a shot too. With regard
> to the loop, are you suggesting that the fuel line comes out of the carb
> and makes this loop above or below the carb? I have noticed bubbles in
> the line before.
>
> I have the same experience as you with the dead stick landing in the Kolb.
> Fortunately for me, I was within easy reach of the field and I have plenty
> of experience with dead stick as I learned to fly in a Sweitzer 2-33 and
> have probably 400 hours or so in all kinds of gliders. My Mk-2 is no
> glider as the glide angle without power "looks" like 40 degrees at 50 MPH
> (that was a bit of a shock). Some of the boys in here with Mk-3's
> probably have a little better penetration than I do with the extra weight
> they carry but I expect their airplanes come down in a hurry too without
> power.
>
> Since my engine out, I tend to fly much higher than I used to,
> remembering that 40 degree glide angle and constantly looking down that
> angle at the possibilities for a safe dead stick landing. It is lodged
> firmly in my mind now that it is not IF, but WHEN the engine quits and it
> is always on my mind while in flight. And hey, the view from 2000 AGL is
> even more beautiful than from 500 :-)
>
> Steve
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FS II construction |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| temporarily secure it; mark for the 3/8"holes; remove
| tube and install H-section; reinsert and then attach
| and align tailfeathers?
Hi Curt/Gang:
I don't know about the manual, but all three of my Kolbs were built:
1-Tail boom to fuselage.
2-Tail feathers to boom tube.
Seems like it was easier for me to square the tail section to the tail
boom already attached to a level fuselage, than it would have been
rigging a tail boom with tail section to the fuselage.
Don't reckon it matters either way, as far as I am concerned.
Whatever works best for you.
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
28F and falling..............
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Just a few words to say that I have now flown my Kolb MkIII......
| Carl
Hi Carl/Gang:
Congratulations!!!
Welcome to the Kolb List.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | First Flight After Unprepared Year's Storage |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
air. I left
| it just as it was when I landed the last time, left in a hurry, so
no prep
| for long time storage.
Richard/Gang:
Well...........welcome home!!!
Wondered where you had gotten off to, or whether or not you were PO'd
at me and did not want to answer the phone or return my calls. Tried
to contact you on my flight to Monument Valley last May, and again on
my return flight to Alabama. In fact, flew right over your house at
the lake, and the air strip. Thought I had been divorced or somthing.
Takes clean fuel to make a 912 go. I'd make sure everything was
cleaned out good, especially the float bowls, idle and main jets. If
you use mickey mouse "I can see my fuel" fuel line, I'd change it out
for some real old fashioned black neoprene Gates fuel hose. Then you
won't have to worry about the bubbles in the fuel lines.
Maybe a new set of NGK plugs also.
If I were going to be the initial test pilot, I'd tie it down
securely, fire it up, and insure it was going to run well at full
power and cruise settings. Not just for a minute or two, but much
longer. Any problems from sitting in that old hanger of yours for a
year undisturbed by humans will probably surface during that static
test.
Make sure you run out all the coon, possums, squirrels, spiders, and
rats, before you try to fly it.
Richard and his wife know how to take care of us out of town folks. I
had the pleasure to RON at Richard's two years ago on the way to
Monument Valley. We had a good time. Wish I could have stayed a
week. I don't know if Richard could have put up with me for that long
or not.
Glad to have you back, Richard.
Take care,
johnh
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 503 losing power |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Kolbra Kit
| #4 ...... |
Hi Wayne/All:
Welcome aboard!
Good to have another Kolbra builder.
One of my favorite Kolb aircraft, although I don't get to fly them
very often.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=f7EPKVraVK96aprpjxlIpZqKXn2ya4dHhft8+LwUZpmRqaqyporsJmSNp1oVyG6RxeSqM9uOlh7NmaVSi9aTL1tCz9mflqav7xkiFEosfAO3vgGoNfC87yQA3kNU19Uot8vTs05MJ9KURaAm/fd67NeBgixyMdNhqAMtNm6s0Bc=
;
--> Kolb-List message posted by: artdog1512 <nazz57@yahoo.com>
here's a question for "the list".... i have a Second
Chantz chute that's about 15 or 20 years old that's
never been deployed, is it still good? ..tim
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight in my Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Man, you baaaaaaad ! ! ! I..uh..don't think QUITE ever'body resents ol'
John - I know I sure don't, and we'd sure miss him if he quit participating.
Speaking of which, I've wondered why we haven't heard from you in so long,
so now we know. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit with you & Charlotte 2
summers ago, and hope for another visit. Maybe next summer, as I'll be
coming that general direction again, but not sure yet by which route. Done
the southern coast 3 times now..........yawn.........it's getting sooooo
old, ya know ?? Good luck with your plane, I hope it's all OK. I
imagine you'll have a major mowing job on that enormous grass runway of
yours, eh ?? Jaded Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First flight in my Kolb
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris"
> <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
>
>>
>> Congratulations, Carl, good on you.
>
> Hello, Kolb list ..I am back after almost a year of being out of the
> country,( I work for a chemical company that has holdings in the middle
> East
> and that's all I willl say about that) not being on the list or flying my
> MK3..
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|