Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Re: Alternative Engine Considerations (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: VW engines ... (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
3. 08:14 AM - Re: VW engines ... (jerb)
4. 08:48 AM - Re: Ultrastar For Sale (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
5. 08:52 AM - Prop Pitch for a Verner (William George)
6. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Alternative Engine Considerations (PATRICK LADD)
7. 10:45 AM - Re: ICOM Radios For Sale (PATRICK LADD)
8. 01:35 PM - Pat's Xtra (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
9. 02:15 PM - Re: Pat's Xtra (pollus)
10. 02:44 PM - Re: Prop Pitch for a Verner (kfackler)
11. 03:06 PM - Do Not Archive (Mike Pierzina)
12. 03:45 PM - Alternative Power and Four Strokes (John Hauck)
13. 03:48 PM - Re: Prop Pitch for a Verner (John Hauck)
14. 06:03 PM - Re: ICOM Radios For Sale (russ kinne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine Considerations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Hi all,
Another engine used over this side of the pond mainly on Gyro's was the
Arrow engine, they made 2 types. A 2cyl 2 stroke of about 55-60 hp, and a 4
cyl 2 stroke, it was 1000cc horizontal opposed and made 100 hp. From what I
can remember it was quite light.
They were fitted to the 2 seat VPM, only problem was that it needed 99 of
the 100 hp just to stay in level flight and you can not talk to any of the
owners with out knowing sign language.
Mike
Xtra Jab 2200
----- Original Message -----
From: <HShack@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Alternative Engine Considerations
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2005 6:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
> That was probably a McCulloch 4 cyl 2 stroke drone engine. Ken Brock
> was still flying his McCulloch powered gyro at Osh and S&F up until
> his recent death. Ran it with four short straight stacks. Extremely
> loud. Would make the "noise police" on your side of the pond go
> bezerk. For that matter, it was very annoying at flyins.
>
> Yep. Stock engine was 100 cubic inches with 75 hp, if I recall correctly;
> weight was about 75 lbs. Max rpm was 4,000 so a lot of noise came from
> the
> direct drive prop. Replacement jugs & pistons were available to get you
> 90 hp.
> Wasn't a very reliable engine even with all the up-grades recommended by
> Benson.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
> SC
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: VW engines ... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Jerb/ All
I'm not sure were this came from but let me assure you that I don't have a
cooling problem with my VW. That said I have to be careful not to sit too
long on the ground with much more than idle power. Once in the air my temps
have been on the low side. In fact I installed a oil thermostat so that my
oil temps can be maintained high enough to boil off contaminates.
Also on the HKS web site they state that the HKS was designed to be used as
a pusher.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VW engines ...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
> Have I missed something, there seems to be an opinion that should a VW
> engine be mounted as a pusher, it would have cooling problems. If this
> were the case the HKS would be toast. Yes they had some growing pains but
> once they worked out the configuration, doesn't appear to be much of a
> problem so long as the builder follows the basic installation
> recommendations.
> jerb
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: VW engines ... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Rick, All,
The H-Power folks associated with the Flightstar were the ones that first
brought in the HKS engine. Yes, Flightstars normal engine arrangement is a
tractor configuration. Earthstar and the Titan folks were probably the
main drive working with H-Power in developing the pusher configuration. As
a result there are different exhaust and intake manifolds available to
support a pusher configurations. My dream would be souped up 1/2 VW with
reduction drive could with stand the stress of the VW power pulses. The
closest thing so far I seen that showed some promise was the ThunderChief
conversion based upon French Citron engine. It was being developed by
Larry Israel formerly associated with Team Aircraft. He was doing good but
he alone didn't have the funds to finish the development. It was a small
2-cylinder tuff engine to which he had added a reduction unit that also
supported a starter and alternator. Initial cost was going to be around
$5K. I almost ordered one for my hangars mates N3-Pup but it wasn't quite
ready. I'm have a tuff time wanting to fork over $8K for a heavier two
cylinder HKS. The HKS is a good engine but pricey for what you get, $5-6K
would be more in line.
jerb
At 09:49 AM 1/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>Jerb/ All
>
>I'm not sure were this came from but let me assure you that I don't have a
>cooling problem with my VW. That said I have to be careful not to sit too
>long on the ground with much more than idle power. Once in the air my temps
>have been on the low side. In fact I installed a oil thermostat so that my
>oil temps can be maintained high enough to boil off contaminates.
>
>Also on the HKS web site they state that the HKS was designed to be used as
>a pusher.
>
>Rick Neilsen
>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jerb" <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VW engines ...
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
> >
> > Have I missed something, there seems to be an opinion that should a VW
> > engine be mounted as a pusher, it would have cooling problems. If this
> > were the case the HKS would be toast. Yes they had some growing pains but
> > once they worked out the configuration, doesn't appear to be much of a
> > problem so long as the builder follows the basic installation
> > recommendations.
> > jerb
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
No, but if I were single I'd take the wife. Any wife that would buy her old
man a Kolb for Christmas has gotta be ok in my book.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Flycrazy8@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Ultrastar For Sale
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Flycrazy8@aol.com
>
> HELP !!!!!......Wife got me a new Kolb for Christmas but she won't let
> me
> keep both . Spend half my time at the airport now.....She thinks I'll
> spend
> all my time with two.....She's probably right.....lol.......
> Anyone out there needing a good flying Kolb ?
>
> Steven
> Southern Geogia
> 334-596-2250
> _flycrazy8@aol.com_ (mailto:flycrazy8@aol.com)
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Prop Pitch for a Verner |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
Aloha Dennis and fellow Kolbers,
Dennis, I recommend you stay with the John Hauck method of setting pitch
Believe me, it is the optimum solution for best compromise between
climb and cruise performance.
When I first began flight testing with the Verner I must have changed
pitch more than a dozen times. Started off with a 72 inch and ended up
with 68". I think it is now at 13 degrees pitch.
The desperate search for more performance is a psychological thing. The
Verner is NOT an 80 hp engine. Plain and simple. The max HP occurs at
the redline and if you are propped correctly you will only touch the
red line at WOT in cruise. If you prop to get close to 5000 rpm in the
climb you will barely be able to maintain level flight at the 4000 max
continuous rpm.
It is a great engine. Mine runs very smooth and sips fuel, but the
performance is identical to the 582 powered machine. You get more
torque and maybe a trickle more HP. Offset that with the added weight
and there you have it; identical performance with the 582.
Cheers,
Bill George
Hawaii
Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin
On Jan 5, 2005, at 9:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote:
> Time: 02:15:22 PM PST US
> From: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Prop Pitch for a Verner
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL
> <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Note: "Subject" line changed for clarity
>
> Richard Neilsen wrote: << Why don't you pitch your prop for 5000 RPM
> on take
> off and/or cruise at your torque peak of 3500 assuming you have the
> VM1400.
> Seems like your most efficient RPM would be at or near your torque
> peak. >>
>
> Richard, and Kolbers -
>
> You are right - peak torque for the VM-1400 occurs at 3500 rpm, and
> this is
> where I spend 90 percent of my flying time when cruising in my Mark-3.
>
> I follow the "John Hauck methodology" for propping this 4-stroke
> engine: Set
> the prop pitch to achieve max continuous rpm (4000, for the Verner) at
> WOT
> in level flight. Although the redline is 5000, I am limited to 5
> minutes
> MAX at this power setting, so it is not really useable to me.
>
> I'm afraid if I set takeoff power to achieve 5000 on climbout, my
> cruise
> speeds will suffer, plus I run the risk of overspeeding the engine if I
> operate at full-throttle.
>
> The Verner likes to run as similar RPMs as a VW. With my current
> 2-to-1
> reduction drive and a 72-inch 3-blade prop, I've found that 12.5
> degrees of
> prop pitch is pretty much optimum for my setup, and the prop never
> exceeds
> 2000 rpm.
>
> Adding pitch could get me a few mph of speed, but, as you suggest, it
> may
> start lugging the engine. Less pitch (I experimented with prop
> settings at
> 9 and 11 degrees earlier) was giving me better climb, but my cruise
> speeds
> were pretty low - like 65 mph at 3600 rpm. I'm now seeing 76 mph at
> the
> same rpm.
>
> This clearly shows an advantage the R-912 enjoys over the Verner: Max
> continuous RPM for the Rotax is much closer to its redline, giving a
> broader
> useable power band.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine Considerations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
McCulloch 4 cyl 2 stroke drone engine.>>
Hi All,
thanks everyone for reminding me. It was of course a McCulloch and had a
poor reputation.
I remember I went to a Bensen gyro demo by the dealer here many years ago .
The blades had not been tracked properly and jerked the stick back and
forward with every rotation almost out of the pilots hand.
It took forever to start the engine. The pilot, who I think was not an
experienced gyro pilot, lurched into the air and did one circuit at about
3/400 feet and banged it back on the runway.
He walked away from the machine looking absolutely ashen and refused to fly
again.
I think that my interest in gyros died at that point and did not revive
until I saw L:ittle Nellie.
Cheers
Pat
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ICOM Radios For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I have two ICOM hand held radios. >>
Hi John,
just checking. Did you get my offer?
Pat
Do not archive
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Hey Pat, I have got your kit all tucked in, given it a teddy bear to keep it company
at night and left soft music playing in the background.
See Ya on Sunday.
Mike
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: pollus <pollus@fornerod.nl>
Was that really a smart thing to do?
Now TWO people can't sleep at night. Pat because he'll be staring at
the ceiling thinking about his kit, and you because you'll mis your
teddy bear...
Pollus
Op 6-jan-05 om 22:34 heeft Silver Fern Microlights Ltd het volgende
geschreven:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
> <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Hey Pat, I have got your kit all tucked in, given it a teddy bear to
> keep it company at night and left soft music playing in the
> background.
> See Ya on Sunday.
>
> Mike
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Pitch for a Verner |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
> Dennis, I recommend you stay with the John Hauck method of setting pitch
Okay, I'll bite. Just what is John's method?
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hi,
What a WONDERFUL TEDDY BEAR story , If I want to read it again, I'll just LOOK
IT UP IN THE ARCHIVES.....
do not archive Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Alternative Power and Four Strokes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
With all the discussion of alterntive engines, expecially 4 stroke, I
discovered a post by Dennis Souder way back about 7 years ago. It is
his test of the HKS on the Kolb Slingshot.
Folks, there is all kinds of info in the Kolb Archives. All one has
to do is search for it. This is one reason why we should be concerned
what info goes in there. Also, we should be aware of the "subject"
and keep info relavent to it. The subject, I believe, is what the
search engine is based on.
********************************
From: DLSOUDER <DLSOUDER@aol.com>
Date: Mar 12, 1998
Subject: HKS evaluation
Kolb Evaluation of the HKS engine:
We installed the HKS on our SlingShot. For those of you who may
not be
familiar with the engine, it is a 2 cylinder 4 stroke
horizontally opposed
engine. It has a gear box and flywheel to help it to run
smoother. It is
made in Japan and imported by Tom Peghiny at FlightStar. The
HKS is very
nicely packaged.
The installation was straightforward with no big problems. It
mounts to an
aluminum plate similar to our other models, except we moved it
toward the rear
a bit more so the rear engine studs were directly in line with
the rear Lord
isolation mounts. The engine does not bolt directly to the alum
plate, but
sits on 4 alum bushings to set the engine up for clearance for
some of the oil
lines.
This introduces one little problem with mounting the HKS - it
puts the prop
shaft to high and this results in the need to carry more back
stick than your
otherwise would. This would tend to reduce speed a little.
Other little quirk we didnt like is the powering of the ignition
system. The
ignition will run off the coils if the battery fails. Or, if
the coils
failed, the battery would provide power. But if your battery
developed an
internal short, for instance, the ignition would fail. Rotax
runs their
ignition from separate coils.
We used the advanced EIS for engine instruments.
At Kolb we, of course, are vitally interested in performance and
so I
evaluated the power from a number of different perspectives.
Top Speed:
Based upon the top speed checks it appears that the HKS was
equivalent to the
Rotax 503. Cruise speed with 503 or HKS is 80 mph. (Cruise
speed with 582 is
87 mph. Cruise with 912 is 94 mph.)
Prop Swap with Rotax 503:
More recently I took one of our 66 x 34 2-blade wood propellers
and installed
it on our famous yellow FireStar with its Rotax 503 and checked
its rpm. The
503 turned it 6000 rpm. (It should have been more, maybe the
prop is pitched
on the high side or maybe our 500 hr 503 is getting tired. In
any case that
was the rpm.)
I put the same prop on the HKS and it turned it 6200 rpm. (That
is only
another 77 rpms at the prop.) If the 503 was making 52 hp, then
the HKS would
be making about 55 hp to turn the prop 6200 rpm. The 503
probably would not
be making even 52 hp at that rpm, so the HKS would be
correspondingly less.
Climb Rates:
The climb rate of the SlingShot with HKS was 750 fpm. This is
about
comparable to what a Rotax 503 will do - the 503 may be a bit
better. (The
climb rate with the 582 is 1300 fpm.) The climb rate was with a
2-blade 68
Warp drive prop with a climb rpm of 6150 rpm. I also had on a
3-blade Ivo,
but the climb of the Ivo was less than the warp. Curiously the
Warp idled
more smoothly than the 3-blade Ivo, but the IVO was smoother at
cruise.
All the data seems consistent that power output is close to a
Rotax 503. It
does appear to make another 3 hp or so, but this is offset by
the somewhat
heavier weight of the HKS.
Plus the HKS does not run as smoothly as the 2-strokes, esp.
from 2000 to 3500
rpm. Also the oil pressure drops too low at idle - this could
be a sender
problem.
For the yank and bank crowd, the HKS will be disappointing. For
those who
want to fly with a 4-stroke and cant afford a 912 and dont have
high
expectations for performance, you may be happy with it.
The HKS could be used in the SlingShot or Mark-III. I had hoped
to do a
modified FireStar with the HKS, but the higher thrust line and
extra vibration
would not be suitable for the lighter FireStar frame.
We plan on removing it soon and trying out a 618 - just for fun;
so the HKS
package will be for sale.
Sincerely,
Dennis
*************************************
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since this Post was written.
Take care,
john h
Titus, AL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Pitch for a Verner |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
setting pitch
|
| Okay, I'll bite. Just what is John's method?
|
| -Ken Fackler
Hi Ken/Gang:
I found this in the Kolb Archives:
**********************
Hi All:
Craig Nelson and Tim Gherkins wanted to know what prop pitch I am
running:
Warp Drive Taper Tip, Nickel Leading Edges, 72" Diameter, 11.5 deg of
pitch.
This allows the engine to turn 5400 rpm static and 5300 climb. She
will just bump the redline 5,500 rpm WOT straight and level flight.
For my MKIII about 95 mph top end. 80 to 90 mph cruise at 5,000 to
5,200 rpm, depending on how I am loaded and temps.
Take care,
john h
*******************************
Take care,
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: ICOM Radios For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Pat
Pls send details on ICOMs'es
Thanx
Russ
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jan 6, 2005, at 1:44 PM, PATRICK LADD wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> I have two ICOM hand held radios. >>
>
> Hi John,
> just checking. Did you get my offer?
>
> Pat
>
> Do not archive
>
>
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