---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/17/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: MV (Ted C) 2. 06:13 AM - Re: Crash (Rayfield, Bill) 3. 07:49 AM - Re: Firefly with H section (John Hauck) 4. 07:52 AM - Re: Updates (N27SB@aol.com) 5. 08:30 AM - kolb (b young) 6. 08:40 AM - Re: Firefly with H section (Richard Swiderwski) 7. 09:35 AM - Re: Cause of engine stoppage. (snuffy@usol.com) 8. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: MV (snuffy@usol.com) 9. 09:49 AM - MV (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 10. 10:54 AM - kolb eis (b young) 11. 11:07 AM - Re: Crash (PATRICK LADD) 12. 11:10 AM - Re: MV (John Hauck) 13. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: MV (George Bass) 14. 01:10 PM - Re: Firefly with H section aka Getting In/Out (Bob N.) 15. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: MV (snuffy@usol.com) 16. 03:04 PM - Re: Monument Valley Flyover Fees (PATRICK LADD) 17. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: MV (The Kuffels) 18. 04:52 PM - Database Updates (dama) 19. 06:00 PM - engine possibility (robert bean) 20. 06:46 PM - Re: Updates (Jerry Curtin) 21. 08:32 PM - Re: Updates (N27SB@aol.com) 22. 08:50 PM - Re: Firefly with H section (Don Gherardini) 23. 08:56 PM - Re: Cause of engine stoppage. (Giovanni Day) 24. 09:09 PM - Test (Giovanni Day) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:55 AM PST US From: Ted C Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted C Just my two cents. If the Nation wants to assess a five buck fee on you guys flying over their charished monuments, maybe you just should pay it cause that would be nice for relationships, you know, like maybe they can give you each a get out of jail card type of thing in case you need a forced landing on their land. I mean, I would not want to land there right after I had told them to shove it. Five bucks could buy you a lot of friendship for the tribe. Might even invite you to other places of greater interests. Might be worth the money. I have neibors who dont shoot at me but I wouldnt want to land there! Just my thoughts. Ted Cowan Bad presidence I know, but this is a different situation than most. How about just telling them you dont support their concept but are willing to DONATE to their tribes treasury. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:01 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Crash From: "Rayfield, Bill" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rayfield, Bill" I've got a Kolbra kit I'd sell. Let me know if interested, we'll talk off list. Bill Rayfield Kimberly-Clark, Corp. Lexington Mill ph: 336-242-6653 fax: 920-969-4976 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Subject: Kolb-List: Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" I had and engine out last week and had to put down in a field. The landing went okay until I hit an irrigation ditch which caused the plane to flip over. Did serious damage to the Kolb. Anyone know of a kit for sale at a reasonable price. Vic This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ============================================================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:55 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly with H section --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" another | thing. | jerb jerb/Gang: I have to admit I don't always hop right out of the factory FF, even though I have very long legs. Age may have something to do with that also. Now, if I had an airplane I liked, but had difficulty getting in and out of the seat, I think I would fabricate a step to be welded to the fuselage or clamped to the gear leg, or some place to make it easier to enter and exit the aircraft. As far as the lift strut attachment to the main spar. Didn't Dennis Souder redesign that to incorporate two lift struts to help the FF meet speed restrictions in the FAA matrix of Part 103? I believe the "normal" H brace and single attachment is much stronger than the present FF attachment. Also, don't think there is any problem overstressing the 5" spar in a FF. Would make a neat little hot rod, especially if a lot of incidence was removed from the wings (like the SS). Little rascal would get up and go. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:42 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Updates --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com In a message dated 1/16/2005 10:42:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, jcurtin@cableone.net writes: > I want to sculpt the cage with last-a-foam and then cover it with Kevlar. > It > is only 1.8oz per yd. but expensive. I don't mind the extra cost as long as > I only have to do it once. Jerry, I can tell you what I learned after building a Long ez and other composite structures. Kevlar may not be your best choice for several reasons. After laying the Kevlar you will still need to go over it with glass. If you sand into Kevlar it fuzzes and is impossible smooth. You already have all the structure you need with the cage so you are really just need a skin. The quickest way to go is with Bi-Axial 45/45. If you ding it you can fix it. You could also go with just a simple 8 oz woven glass but it is real easy to sand through. Regular polyester resin is all you need. A hybrid cage with both steel frame and then a foam and glass skin is the heaviest way to build an airplane. Its the way they did it in the 60's because they did not trust the glass. I am afraid that you will end up adding a lot of weight for the look you want. Steve Boetto WetFly #007 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:12 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: kolb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" She told me that she's received a letter from the tribe complaining about the ultralights using their Monument Valley without paying. The fee is $5 per day per person. OK, I don't have a problem with that, but I'm gonna wait 'till I get the stuff from her and then get a contact at the tribe and see if I can arrange some sort of a group rate. (See, I'm gonna get brownie points with her and have her help me.) If you guys have any ideas, let me know. Dave it seems to me that what is spent for camping, restraunt fees, etc would make up some of the $5.00 per day..... mention that to her when you visit with her. we could always go to bryce canyon.... they have the same type of setup and ammenities, hotell/ motell, rv camping, tent camping, restraunt....... and something different to look at..... it seems that last year they were very happy to have us and mentioned discounts in furture years inorder to get us to come.... maybe they have forgott that, or the gal you are visiting with did not know of that conversation. boyd do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:47 AM PST US From: "Richard Swiderwski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firefly with H section --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" Kolbers, I might have missed something in this thread, but am I understanding correctly that a FireFly does not use an H-section in the wing spar? If not how do they distribute the stress? Just curious, Richard Swiderski >On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:51:20 -0600 "John Hauck" >writes: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > > > > |Comparing the FireFly to the FireStar, I feel the factory had been > > | very conservative in setting the gross weight of the FireFly in > > > > > Jerb/Gang: > > > > One of Dennis Souders's favorite comments was "it is as strong as > > its > > weakest link", which I agree with. Beef one thing up and the next > > weakest thing will fail. > > > > The Firefly is a very strong little airplane based on the old > > Firestar > > fuselage, Sling Shot wings (with 5" spars), and lots of ribs. > > However, if I were going to make a little hot rod/heavy hauler out > > of > > it, I'd go with "H" braces in the wing spars and streamlined 4130 > > struts. That's based on gut feelings more than any kind of stress > > tests or numbers. > > > > Take care, > > > > john h > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:27 AM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cause of engine stoppage. --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com > | the carburetor gas bowl I found the main I assume you have checked the threads on the jet and seat for damage with a magnifier. The threads may be damaged from overtightening from previous assembly. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:19 AM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com I think the average income for the Navaho is below poverty level. I would guess that when they see guys coming there to visit in airplanes and motorhomes they kind of figure that these guys aren't exactly Migrant workers living out of the back seat of a 78 chevy and that 5 bucks isn't going to leave them impoverished and destitute...........Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: MV From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 01/17/2005 12:13:13 PM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Larry et al Im still out here, mostly just lurking around.. I plan on making MV again this year, trailering out from So. Cal. with the van. There was talk last year of Homer possibly joining us this year. John H, any news on this? Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:43 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: kolb eis --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" i dont know what eis you have.... the eis-3-adv-w/912 has a "set pages" option by pressing two keys marked "set limits" at the same time you can then scroll through pages where you can set limits for.... time,contrast, rpm, cht, egt, temp, voltage, high and low aux limits.... when any of the limits are exceeded this will caust the alarm to go off. try setting the time limit to a greater number..... ex: flight time with full tanks, minus 30 to 40 min,,,, depending on your level of comfort when running low on fuel..... or set it to zero to turn the function off. boyd ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:31 AM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" I had and engine out last week and had to put down in a field. >> Hi Vic, hard luck. Are you OK? Any idea why the engine failed? Pat ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:13 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | | There was talk last year of Homer possibly joining us this year. John H, | any news on this? | | Erich Weaver Erich/Gang: Homer made me a promise at the Kolb Flyin to be a MV this year. He loves to travel, has a 94 Dodge/Cummins and a 5th wheel travel trailer. The only thing that would keep him from not being there would be some "other" stuff come up that took priority. For most of us that go to MV, there isn't much that would take priority over being there for the flyin except being in the hospital or worse. I'll keep close tabs on Homer and make sure we are on the calender for MV. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:09 AM PST US From: "George Bass" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" Snuffy, et al; It would seem, on the surface, that your assumption of the financial status of most of the Navaho tribal members would be correct. However, let me be gentle in my assertion that your assumption IS NOT TRUE. On top of the vast amounts of money that tribe receives from such endeavors as the Navaho Power Plant, the coal production on their lands & other mining operations, they do make a healthy profit on any other items sold, &/or used on their lands, including the RV areas, restaurants, fuels, &, God forbid, the death of one of their prized sheep (always one of the best stories about them). It would seem to me that the efforts to extort, er, ah, charge an additional 'fee' for the use of "airspace" would just be a TEST to see how much visitors are willing to forfeit for their personal pleasures. I hope this can be worked out favorably for the true benefit of all concerned. Wish I were able to enjoy the air with you all. Blue Skies, George Bass P. O. Box 770 Camp Verde, AZ 86322 USUA #30899 DO NOT ARCHIVE -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:30 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly with H section aka Getting In/Out --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." OFs like me tend to repeat ourselves...so again here's how this OF gets in/out of his FireFly: 0) Approach FF on rt. side, turn around (180 deg.). 1) Back up 'til you hit the longeron. 2) Place both hands kinda behind you on longeron and hoist yer self up to where you're sitting on tube. 3) Lower yer butt to seat, 4) With lt. hand grab yer lt. pants leg while using rt. hand to hold stick back and lt. 5) Haul lt. leg into cockpit, watching fer hitting windscreen if you have the extended one. If you have the full enclosure, engage a chiropractor. 6) Repeat steps 4 and 5 with rt. leg. 7) Get back out this way: 8) Reverse steps 5 and 4, in that order. 9) With both legs out, grab tube and hoist yer self to sitting position on tube. 10) Ease yer self to standing on ground. 11) Walk away. Now if I can do that with 3 vertebrae fused, on a short legged 5-7 frame, at goin' on 82, then you youngsters orta be able. Bob N. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:49 PM PST US From: snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com On top of the vast amounts of money that > tribe receives from such endeavors as the Navaho > Power Plant, the coal production on their lands & > other mining operations, they do make a healthy > profit on any other items sold, &/or used on their > lands, including the RV areas, restaurants, fuels, OMG! they sound like..........dare I say it??? CAPITALISTS!!! Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:27 PM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flyover Fees --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" As a quasi-nation they are entitled to some control over their property. You might compare them to the vatican.>> Hi, I would pay five bucks to fly across St Marks Square at 25 ft Yeeehaaa! Cheers Pat do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:14 PM PST US From: The Kuffels Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: The Kuffels Do not archive Promise, this is the last I'll say on this topic. snuffy <> Exactly. They clearly think they have a monopoly. And as good capitalists, they have the right to attempt to collect a fee to which they are not entitled. As good consumers, we have a right to point out the fact and decline to pay it. Then they have the right to decide to be welcoming anyway and if not we have the right to take our money elsewhere such as Bryce Canyon. PATRICK LADD << <> I would pay five bucks to fly across St Marks Square at 25 ft Yeeehaaa!>> This might get interesting for you afterwards since St. Mark's Square is in Venice. Hasn't been controlled by the Vatican in quite a while. Then again, suspect sufficient money in the right Italian officials' hands might get you permission to make this flight. Be careful of the only gap in and out, it's kinda narrow. Thomas C(as in curmudgeon) Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:11 PM PST US From: "dama" Subject: Kolb-List: Database Updates --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" Thanks to the "mention" by John Williamson recently, I have received quite a number of updates and additions. All have been added and anyone who is building or flying a Kolb is welcome to be included. Regards, Kip http://www.springeraviation.net/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:19 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: engine possibility --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Here's an offer that may interest someone. (i hereby renounce any future liability) :) I have a running Geo 1.0L with Raven Redrive, wiring harness modified, ECM, TBI, Exhaust, Prop. It is a complete engine package all you need to do it bolt it on and fly, it runs fine but a bit heavy for my gyro. Looking to do a direct trade for a Running 582 complete just like my setup, just bolt on and fly. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@s... www.skyguynca.com -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:36 PM PST US From: "Jerry Curtin" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Updates --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry Curtin" Hello Steve, Thanks for the feedback. I am certainly concerned about weight but did not think that the amount of foam that I was going to install would be too great a cost in weight. Can you tell me why glass has to be layered over the Kevlar? I have a friend that has modified his Piper Comanche 400 with Kevlar only and it seems to be a smooth as a baby's butt. He laid it up by hand without vaccuum bagging it and it really looks great. Can it be touched up with micro? Thanks again. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Updates > --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/16/2005 10:42:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jcurtin@cableone.net writes: > > > I want to sculpt the cage with last-a-foam and then cover it with Kevlar. > > It > > is only 1.8oz per yd. but expensive. I don't mind the extra cost as long as > > I only have to do it once. > > Jerry, I can tell you what I learned after building a Long ez and other > composite structures. Kevlar may not be your best choice for several reasons. > After laying the Kevlar you will still need to go over it with glass. If you > sand into Kevlar it fuzzes and is impossible smooth. You already have all the > structure you need with the cage so you are really just need a skin. The > quickest way to go is with Bi-Axial 45/45. If you ding it you can fix it. You could > also go with just a simple 8 oz woven glass but it is real easy to sand > through. Regular polyester resin is all you need. A hybrid cage with both steel > frame and then a foam and glass skin is the heaviest way to build an airplane. > Its the way they did it in the 60's because they did not trust the glass. I am > afraid that you will end up adding a lot of weight for the look you want. > > Steve Boetto > WetFly #007 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:44 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Updates --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com In a message dated 1/17/2005 9:59:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, jcurtin@cableone.net writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry Curtin" > > Hello Steve, Thanks for the feedback. I am certainly concerned about weight > but did not think that the amount of foam that I was going to install would > be too great a cost in weight. Can you tell me why glass has to be layered > over the Kevlar? I have a friend that has modified his Piper Comanche 400 > with Kevlar only and it seems to be a smooth as a baby's butt. He laid it up > by hand without vaccuum bagging it and it really looks great. Can it be > touched up with micro? Thanks again. Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Updates > > Hi Jerry, What parts did he build? If they are fairings and cowls then those are good applications for Kevlar. You can finish a raw Kevlar layup with Micro filler but it is very difficult to sand your Micro without hitting the kevlar. Once you hit it , it fuzzes up. This is due to the very tough nature of the aramid fiber. The application you described just does not call out for kevlar in my humble opinion. Remember, Kevlar has very poor rigid characteristics. Without some glass in the matrix your skin may not break but your finish will crack. If you are really sold on Kevlar I would try some sample pieces. I would be happy to send you some samples of Biaxial if that would help. Good luck, and let me know how it works. If you are willing to spend weight for pretty then at least do it as light as possible. Steve do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:27 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly with H section --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Hey Gang.... I converted my FireFly to single lift struts...look at my website and on the bottom of the pages the button that says "strut mod" will take you there and show you how I did it... The method of attach that the stock Firefly uses to attach the strut to the spar is different than on a Firestar..I dont think it is weaker...just different. the Fly uses a large bracket that rivets to the spar...kinda makes a square box out of it where the struts attach and a steel attach bracket then rivets to the box section. The end of this attach bracket then sticks thru the fabric and each of the 4 struts attach to it with one bolt. The "T" section that I made simply uses the stock attach brackets and allows one to use a single strut. I sent pics and specs to to Dennis before I completed it and asked for any advice he might offer....he basically told me it looked like it should do the job fine. I gained 5 mph or so with this and the other mods to cover the top half of the rear cage and added a streamlined "ducktail " to the rear of the cage. Here is a direct link to the strut mod page http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/strut_mod.htm Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:53 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Cause of engine stoppage. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" I once purchased a 100hr used 503. The engine was in great shape. I put it on a quicksilver I had and it ran great till about 60-70% and up. I thought I had too much prop as it would start to bog down and loose RPM. It would never die but ran very bad with little power. When I would reduce the throttle it would pick back up again. I was stumped. One friend advised I would look at the main jets as maybe they needed adjustment. What do you know it had none in it. With this experience in mind I am not sure the cause of the engine stoppage was the jet. Maybe if combined with another problem or if the power was left at full throttle it would stop? Not sure but either way but thought the information is relevant. Giovanni Day MKIII 912 80566 41.4 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of snuffy@usol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cause of engine stoppage. --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com > | the carburetor gas bowl I found the main I assume you have checked the threads on the jet and seat for damage with a magnifier. The threads may be damaged from overtightening from previous assembly. Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:05 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: Kolb-List: Test --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Test. Do Not archive