---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/29/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Rotax Type 535?? (Earl & Mim Zimmerman) 2. 06:15 AM - Re: goatglider (Steve Kroll) 3. 06:36 AM - Re: John Hauck waiting for the movie !!!! (Steve Kroll) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: Rotax Type 535?? (Richard Pike) 5. 08:37 AM - Re: Hangar Space is hard to find (David Paule) 6. 08:55 AM - Re: Folding Wings (John Williamson) 7. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Hangar Space is hard to find (Jim Baker) 8. 10:04 AM - Re: Folding Wings (Eugene Zimmerman) 9. 10:10 AM - Re: Folding Wings (John Hauck) 10. 05:44 PM - Carb Icing ... ??? (Noel Bouchard) 11. 07:01 PM - Re: Carb Icing ... ??? (Charlie England) 12. 07:26 PM - Re: Carb Icing ... ??? () 13. 07:34 PM - Re: Carb Icing ... ??? (robert bean) 14. 07:41 PM - Re: Carb Icing ... ??? GOT DRYGAS! (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 15. 08:26 PM - Re: Folding Wings (jerb) 16. 08:40 PM - Re: Carb Icing (Richard Pike) 17. 08:42 PM - Thanks fo Carb Icing replies ... (Noel Bouchard) 18. 08:57 PM - DryGas ? isopropyl ? (Noel Bouchard) 19. 11:33 PM - Re: DryGas ? isopropyl ? (ElleryWeld@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:00 AM PST US From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax Type 535?? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Hey Guys, I just received a service bulletin for Rotax engine type 535. I never heard of that engine. What are they used in? Are they 2 or 4 stroke? ~ Earl -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:41 AM PST US From: Steve Kroll Subject: Re: Kolb-List: goatglider --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll Robert, It was me that mentioned it and I'm in love with it too. No, I haven't done anything about it yet but it certainly is my intention. All of us on this list that fly 2 seat Kolbs have the capacity to tow this bird. As a matter of fact, a 2 seat Kolb is ideal because of our ability to fly slow. Also, those of us who have built a Kolb are already equipped with all the necessary skills it takes to build the glider as the build is very similar in materials and method. The tow hook will be a bit of a trick on the Kolb because our rudders extend beyond the boom tube. That will mean that the Goat will have to be towed always in the low position so that the tow line does not interfere with the operation of the rudder and elevator on the towplane (Kolb). I believe a ground tow using a thousand feet of ski rope (nylon) will also get the Goat to enough altitude to "get away" on a good thermal day....or at the very least, to pattern altitude for practice flights making flying the Goat a very simple and economical 2-man operation. I've got a partner in my hangar who is about as enthused about it as I am and we intend to start on this project sometime after Christmas. Hopefully there will be funds available :-) Robert (or anybody who is interested in the Goat Ultralight Glider) please feel free to contact me off list to discuss it further. Foir those of you who haven't looked at it yet: http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/g1doc.htm Steve Kroll Mk-2 503 do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:46 AM PST US From: Steve Kroll Subject: Re: Kolb-List: John Hauck waiting for the movie !!!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll Hey John, Just carry around a portable tape recorder for awhile and do some reminiscing. When you figure you got it about covered, send me the tapes and I'll write the book for you.... With all the help offered from the list, you can dang near just sit back and count the money. This could be a GREAT book and you can just about bet your bippy that there will be movie offers too. When all is said and done, we can rest on our laurels and just FLY!!!! Come on man....your story deserves to be told. Steve Kroll Mk-2 503 do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:38 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax Type 535?? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Did a Google search, it looks like a 532, makes 59 hp, and was apparently used in some sailplanes. http://www.mandhsoaring.com/nimbus4dm.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive At 09:02 AM 1/29/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman > >Hey Guys, >I just received a service bulletin for Rotax engine type 535. >I never heard of that engine. What are they used in? Are they 2 or 4 >stroke? ~ Earl > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:16 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hangar Space is hard to find --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" I've got a Firestar, and it lives in a small T-hangar, folded, alongside the Cessna 180 Skywagon there. The Cessna is ahead of the Kolb, with the nose of the Kolb behind the Cessna's wing. The Kolb fits alongside the Cessna's tail. All I have to do to fly the Cessna is preflight it and push it out. But to fly the Kolb, I've got to push Big Hammer, that's the Cessna, out and then push the Firestar out. Pull Big Hammer back in and unfold the Firestar (15 minutes by myself, using a saw-horse as a tool), and preflight it. In exchange for the extra handling, I get to store both planes in the same hangar. Since I'd keep the 180 in the hangar anyway, the Kolb gets to stay there rent-free. Dave Paule Boulder, CO FSII, unnamed Cessna Skywagon, Big Hammer ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:04 AM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Folding Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like Woody was able to clear up the question. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912UL, 708 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:18 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hangar Space is hard to find --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > I've got a Firestar, and it lives in a small T-hangar, folded, > alongside the Cessna 180 Skywagon there. My FS 2 resides, in much the same manner, beside my Bellanca Super Viking. The hanger is a 40 x 40 and gets a bit crowded. The wings stay in place but have to fold the tail each time. The FS2 is nose to the back and Viking nose to the front.Getting the FS2 out is a pain 'cause I have my own sod strip, and if anyone has ever tried to move a Viking on sod you'll know that it has to be towed everywhere...you won't move it by hand power. Maybe I should just spring for a concrete pad in front of the hanger....... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:27 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Folding Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman >>>>>>> That leaves the Flyer, and I do not know if the wings folded on it or not.<<<<<<<<< Yeah John, they'd probably fold if'n you flew one for a bit back then. Wonder how steep a dive it would take to loop a Flyer? John Hauck wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > >> My MkII is a 1988, it folds. Must be something earlier? >> >>Ed in JXN > > > Hi All: > > My 1984 Ultrastar had folding wings, as all US's had. That leaves the > Flyer, and I do not know if the wings folded on it or not. > > john h > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:15 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Folding Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" then. | | Wonder how steep a dive it would take to loop a Flyer? | Eugene/Gang: I don't know, but my FS wings folded both ways. hehehe john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:38 PM PST US From: Noel Bouchard Subject: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard Hello "Kolbers" ! I am a long time lurker on this list but very seldomly post ... I live near Montreal, Canada and today i had an engine out with my Twinstar Mark II due to what i think is carb. icing ... The engine started to run roughly after a 1-2 min slow descent from ~ 1500 to 700 feet and would not go higher than about 4800 RPM and was probably running on 1 carb. So i just cut power and landed ... (No bad consequence as i was 700 ft above the St-Lawrence river when the problem hapenned so it was a "no brainer" to land on the (frozen) river ...) After landing i saw that one of the carb spewed a lot of gaz from the overflow Now ... i have never been able to restart the engine (Rotax 503 Point Ignition) after ... checking the carbs bowl, needele jet and changing the plugs ... and as darkness was coming in i had to leave the plane on a peer by the river :-( and a friend picked me up ... BTW the temp was -8C and the dew point -10 C ... (14 and 17 F) and quite a lot of humidity in the air ... Perfect conditions for Carb Icing ... So i am wondering why this engine would not restart ... and trying to elaborate a stategy to get back tomorrow morning and fix the problem ... I tought of getting a new set of plugs and try again and if no result i thought of getting the carbs off and bring them to warm so to melt the remaining ice ... If it remains there ... Any advice from you northern flyers ? Nol -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:37 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England Noel Bouchard wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard > >Hello "Kolbers" ! > >I am a long time lurker on this list but very seldomly post ... >I live near Montreal, Canada and today i had an engine out >with my Twinstar Mark II due to what i think is carb. icing ... >The engine started to run roughly after a 1-2 min slow descent from ~ 1500 >to 700 feet and would not go higher than about 4800 RPM and was >probably running on 1 carb. So i just cut power and landed ... >(No bad consequence as i was 700 ft above the St-Lawrence river >when the problem hapenned so it was a "no brainer" to land on the >(frozen) river ...) > >After landing i saw that one of the carb spewed a lot of gaz from the >overflow >Now ... i have never been able to restart the engine (Rotax 503 Point >Ignition) >after ... checking the carbs bowl, needele jet and changing the plugs >... and as darkness was >coming in i had to leave the plane on a peer by the river :-( and a >friend picked me up ... > >BTW the temp was -8C and the dew point -10 C ... (14 and 17 F) >and quite a lot of humidity in the air ... Perfect conditions for Carb >Icing ... > >So i am wondering why this engine would not restart ... and trying to >elaborate a stategy >to get back tomorrow morning and fix the problem ... >I tought of getting a new set of plugs and try again and if no result i >thought of getting the carbs off >and bring them to warm so to melt the remaining ice ... If it remains >there ... > >Any advice from you northern flyers ? > >Nol > > > > No experience with Rotax but in the Lyc/Cont world, ideal icing conditions are usually considered to be in the 40-70 degree F range (sorry; I can measure in metric but not in C). The reason is that if outside air is below freezing, the moisture in the air entering the carb is likely already frozen. Temp drop in the carb would then be of no consequence. The most common reason for fuel flow stoppage in very cold conditions is water ice in the gas lines themselves. May not mean a thing in your application... Charlie ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:39 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? --> Kolb-List message posted by: If I remember crrectly, The higher the fuel level is in the float bowl, the richer the mixture. It seems that the fuel cut off valve in one carb is not functioning for whatever reason. Maybe frozen water in the float bowl. Dale in SC > > From: Noel Bouchard > Date: 2005/01/29 Sat PM 08:43:43 EST > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard > > Hello "Kolbers" ! > > I am a long time lurker on this list but very seldomly post ... > I live near Montreal, Canada and today i had an engine out > with my Twinstar Mark II due to what i think is carb. icing ... > The engine started to run roughly after a 1-2 min slow descent from ~ 1500 > to 700 feet and would not go higher than about 4800 RPM and was > probably running on 1 carb. So i just cut power and landed ... > (No bad consequence as i was 700 ft above the St-Lawrence river > when the problem hapenned so it was a "no brainer" to land on the > (frozen) river ...) > > After landing i saw that one of the carb spewed a lot of gaz from the > overflow > Now ... i have never been able to restart the engine (Rotax 503 Point > Ignition) > after ... checking the carbs bowl, needele jet and changing the plugs > ... and as darkness was > coming in i had to leave the plane on a peer by the river :-( and a > friend picked me up ... > > BTW the temp was -8C and the dew point -10 C ... (14 and 17 F) > and quite a lot of humidity in the air ... Perfect conditions for Carb > Icing ... > > So i am wondering why this engine would not restart ... and trying to > elaborate a stategy > to get back tomorrow morning and fix the problem ... > I tought of getting a new set of plugs and try again and if no result i > thought of getting the carbs off > and bring them to warm so to melt the remaining ice ... If it remains > there ... > > Any advice from you northern flyers ? > > Nol > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:50 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Noel, purge the gas line, check the floats, and if there is an airport nearby they may loan (rent?) you a genuine aircraft pre-heater. -And make sure the plugs are dry. -BB do not archive On 29, Jan 2005, at 8:43 PM, Noel Bouchard wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard > > Hello "Kolbers" ! > > I am a long time lurker on this list but very seldomly post ... > I live near Montreal, Canada and today i had an engine out > with my Twinstar Mark II due to what i think is carb. icing ... > The engine started to run roughly after a 1-2 min slow descent from ~ > 1500 > to 700 feet and would not go higher than about 4800 RPM and was > probably running on 1 carb. So i just cut power and landed ... > (No bad consequence as i was 700 ft above the St-Lawrence river > when the problem hapenned so it was a "no brainer" to land on the > (frozen) river ...) > > After landing i saw that one of the carb spewed a lot of gaz from the > overflow > Now ... i have never been able to restart the engine (Rotax 503 Point > Ignition) > after ... checking the carbs bowl, needele jet and changing the plugs > ... and as darkness was > coming in i had to leave the plane on a peer by the river :-( and a > friend picked me up ... > > BTW the temp was -8C and the dew point -10 C ... (14 and 17 F) > and quite a lot of humidity in the air ... Perfect conditions for Carb > Icing ... > > So i am wondering why this engine would not restart ... and trying to > elaborate a stategy > to get back tomorrow morning and fix the problem ... > I tought of getting a new set of plugs and try again and if no result i > thought of getting the carbs off > and bring them to warm so to melt the remaining ice ... If it remains > there ... > > Any advice from you northern flyers ? > > Nol > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:54 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Icing ... ??? GOT DRYGAS! --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com GOT DRYGAS! I always use isopropyl gas line anti-Freeze especially in cold conditions because of condensation in the fuel tank and I never had an engine out landing because of moisture in the fuel Carb Icing is when your venturi gets built up with ice or closed in with ice if you have water in the fuel and it made it to the carb Bowl that is moisture in your fuel not carb ice Do Not Archive Ellery ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:54 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Folding Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb John & All, Before all this info eludes us, why don't we make a list of the various model of Kolbs in a chronological order. Perhaps we could even get dates each were in production. jerb At 10:41 PM 1/28/05 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > > My MkII is a 1988, it folds. Must be something earlier? > > > > Ed in JXN > >Hi All: > >My 1984 Ultrastar had folding wings, as all US's had. That leaves the >Flyer, and I do not know if the wings folded on it or not. > >john h > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:59 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Carb Icing --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Years ago my brother in law brought his Quicksilver MX up to Tennessee to fly during the winter, and was curious about carb icing. It wasn't long before we had a day with temps about 36 degrees, and very high humidity. We tied the Quick down real good, pulled the air cleaner off the Cuyuna, and fired it up. After a while, we could see a sliver of what looked like rime ice/frost formed just downstream of the orifice that the slide needle goes into. It was about 1/8" wide at the widest, and maybe 1/8" high, 3/8" long, and sort of an angle shape. I suppose it is possible that depending on how it happened to be shaped, it could disrupt the suction of the fuel from the bowl, but it didn't affect that particular Mikuni. Throttle settings didn't make much difference. Seemed to run normal. There was no ice on the slide or anywhere in the passage. Not that it proves anything, just thought I'd pass it on. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 10:39 PM 1/29/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com > >Carb Icing is when your venturi gets built up with ice or closed in with >ice > >Do Not Archive > > > > Ellery > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:24 PM PST US From: Noel Bouchard Subject: Kolb-List: Thanks fo Carb Icing replies ... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard Hello Guys ! You guys and this list are SO wonderfull ! Check the replies i got i a couple of hour from Robert, Dale, Charlie and Ellery !!! (below ...) Ok ! I have checked the float bowls twice and found no water or ice ... I have also checked the main jets and jet needles ... The throttle control seemed normal (no obstruction in the jets by ice ...) I had never heard of the relationship with the fuel level in the float bowl and mixture but it make a lot of sense !!! The bowls were way full ... ... and i think Isopropyl in the gas mixture might be the way to go to avoid us (northerners) those very annoying events ... I will try it from now on ... Now my first goal is to get the plane back home and then i will the purge the gas thanks ans will seriously consider installing a Gascolator for winter flying ... But i am still unsure as the problem was caused by "pure" carb icing (conditions were favorable to it) or water in the gas ... I always filter the gas with a fine mesh (Mr funnel or ?) BTW that only my 2nd engine out since i bought my MK II in 1999 ... The first one was causes by water contamination ... Thanks so much for your inputs ... ... as if old friend were there to help ... Very gratefull ... (and .. Sorry for the lengthy post ...) Noel +-------------------------------------+ Noel, purge the gas line, check the floats, and if there is an airport nearby they may loan (rent?) you a genuine aircraft pre-heater. -And make sure the plugs are dry. -BB do not archive robert bean <>Dale If I remember crrectly, The higher the fuel level is in the float bowl, the richer the mixture. It seems that the fuel cut off valve in one carb is not functioning for whatever reason. MaybeDale frozen water in the float bowl. Dale No experience with Rotax but in the Lyc/Cont world, ideal icing conditions are usually considered to be in the 40-70 degree F range (sorry; I can measure in metric but not in C). The reason is that if outside air is below freezing, the moisture in the air entering the carb is likely already frozen. Temp drop in the carb would then be of no consequence. The most common reason for fuel flow stoppage in very cold conditions is water ice in the gas lines themselves. May not mean a thing in your application... Charlie GOT DRYGAS! I always use isopropyl gas line anti-Freeze especially in cold conditions because of condensation in the fuel tank and I never had an engine out landing because of moisture in the fuel Carb Icing is when your venturi gets built up with ice or closed in with ice if you have water in the fuel and it made it to the carb Bowl that is moisture in your fuel not carb ice Do Not Archive Ellery -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:36 PM PST US From: Noel Bouchard Subject: Kolb-List: DryGas ? isopropyl ? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Noel Bouchard Hello Ellery What is the Mixture ratio for Isopropyl ? Thanks Noel > always use isopropyl gas line anti-Freeze especially in > cold conditions because of condensation in the fuel tank and I never had an > engine out landing because of moisture in the fuel -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:28 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: DryGas ? isopropyl ? --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com 12 oz of isopropyl treats up to 20 gallons of fuel Happy flying and keep the moisture out Finally I get a chance to try out my new skis I built tomorrow Going hoping lake to lake about 84 miles planned I will post pics of skis at a later date Camera on the blink now Have Jig rod and firestar gone fishing Ellery do not archive