Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Could have been tragical but finally hllarious ;-) (skyrider2)
2. 06:04 AM - John H and The Next Alaska Trip (skyrider2)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Could have been tragical but finally hllarious ;-) (James, Ken)
4. 07:46 AM - para-glider (russ kinne)
5. 07:47 AM - Maximum Gross Weight, Flight Loads and Flight Safety (Rex Rodebush)
6. 08:18 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 03/10/05 (b young)
7. 08:56 AM - Re: Silver fern-Rivets (Carl Trollope)
8. 08:57 AM - Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip (George Bass)
9. 09:28 AM - Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip (John Hauck)
10. 09:41 AM - Re: para-glider (Richard Pike)
11. 09:49 AM - Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip (Don Gherardini)
12. 09:54 AM - Kiev Props (N27SB@aol.com)
13. 12:47 PM - Re: Maximum Gross Weight, Flight Loads and Flight Safety (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
14. 12:51 PM - Re: para-glider (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
15. 01:13 PM - Re: para-glider (Denny Rowe)
16. 01:13 PM - Re: para-glider (Denny Rowe)
17. 01:37 PM - Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip (Rusty)
18. 02:25 PM - Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip (George Bass)
19. 02:42 PM - Load factor.... (Jim Baker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Could have been tragical but finally hllarious ;-) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
Hi Nol,
Man was that spooky!!! And exactly the reason that I'll never fly one of
those rigs. I don't want any part of a wing that folds up on you as a
matter of normalcy.
Just because he flew into a thermal. Thank goodness his reserve didn't get
tangled with the main wing. And the fall out of the tree could have been
fatal as well.
Unfortunately, it's labeled incorrectly. It's not a Hang Glider, it's a
Para Glider. Not the same thing. In spite of many misguided attempts to
combine the two sports. Too bad that hang gliding gets stuck with all of
the "pair a panties" bad press.
Glad the guy lived through it though. But he'll probably go back and do it
again.
No Frame -- No Brain
Fly Safely,
Doug
Hang Gliding For 33 Years This Spring
Hello Kolbers !
Sorry about beeing off topic but i tough you guys might enjoy this !
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/hangglidefall.html
Absolutely hilarious ! ;-)
Abosolutely Do Not Archive.
Nol Bouchard
Kolb Twinstar MKII
Montreal, Canada
Message 2
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| Subject: | John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
John,
I'll second what Cliff says. I'd buy copies of both as well. In fact, you
could make a fantastic coffee table book out of your photos. Title it:
Alaska By Air or
Alaskair or
something...........
Doug
NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
Do Not Archive
John
I bet you could pay for your next trip if you burned a CD with all those
pictures
you took with details of each - I'd buy one for $20.
Then I'd like to take that exact same trip some day - if you put it all
together
in a booklet - with advice based on your experience & pictures of each spot
where you landed - I'll buy a copy - say $40 for that. It wouldn't take
long
before you've got enough money coming in to finance the next trip!
I just sent those pictures out to a bunch of people i know and they all love
them
and want to see more!
thanks
cliff
Message 3
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| Subject: | Could have been tragical but finally hllarious ;-) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
I hate when people mislabel aircraft. It taints all sports.
I have never in over 20 years flying ( even the old delta's ) seen a
Hangglider fold up under "normal flying conditions" Thermals gusts etc..
Remember after the earliest deltas Hanggliding is a sport of thermaling and
my oldest glider was 4+/-g rated. Having said that I have seen quite a few
Hanggliders fold up doing aerobatics which they were not rated for. Guy's
who thought they knew that the kite could take it (surprise)!! I have some
great pic of guy's doing loops and wing overs but NONE of their kites were
rated for acrobatics. Most survived their fold ups most had chutes, I even
saw a guy spin one down with a folded wing and limp away. Remember even if
the wing folds you have a lot of stuff out in the wind and a very low mass
so it's possible to bring it all down and survive. I personally have ridden
thermals up at over 800 fpm flown to well over 12k flown as far as 60 miles
in a day and flown in 20 knt winds off the beach. All within my current
kites flight envelope,
It's simple stay in the numbers and stay alive.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: skyrider2 [mailto:skyrider2@earthlink.net]
Subject: Kolb-List: Could have been tragical but finally hllarious ;-)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
Hi Nol,
Man was that spooky!!! And exactly the reason that I'll never fly one of
those rigs. I don't want any part of a wing that folds up on you as a
matter of normalcy.
Just because he flew into a thermal. Thank goodness his reserve didn't get
tangled with the main wing. And the fall out of the tree could have been
fatal as well.
Unfortunately, it's labeled incorrectly. It's not a Hang Glider, it's a
Para Glider. Not the same thing. In spite of many misguided attempts to
combine the two sports. Too bad that hang gliding gets stuck with all of
the "pair a panties" bad press.
Glad the guy lived through it though. But he'll probably go back and do it
again.
No Frame -- No Brain
Fly Safely,
Doug
Hang Gliding For 33 Years This Spring
Hello Kolbers !
Sorry about beeing off topic but i tough you guys might enjoy this !
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/hangglidefall.html
Absolutely hilarious ! ;-)
Abosolutely Do Not Archive.
Nol Bouchard
Kolb Twinstar MKII
Montreal, Canada
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
I don't see what caused the chute to fold up like that -- I didn't see
hotrodding but this isn't my field.
But in general-- hotrodders always crash sooner or later, be in
aircraft, cycles, cars, or boats.
There's no room for showoffing in our sport; try to discourage it when
you see it.
Ken James' reply was excellent. He's obviously a safe-and-sane pilot.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Maximum Gross Weight, Flight Loads and Flight Safety |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
Some other thoughts on the gross weight.............
I checked my notes from TNK's Fly In two years ago and Bruce said that
the Mark III was +4 -2 G's at 1000#. Their website specifications state
+4 -2 load and +6 -3 ultimate. They also say 850# normal and 1000# max
gross so I assume the +4 -2 is indeed at 1000# gross.
On FAA cert. airplanes standard category is +3.8 -1.5 G's and utility
category is +4.4 -1.8 G's
I plan to use 1100 Max. gross on my plane so if I cipher right that
works out to +3.64 -1.82 G's, just a slightly lower safety factor than
standard category on the + G side.
I think the big question is where Kolb got the +4 -2 number from? Was
it calculated by hand; calculated by F.E. computer; or was the frame
carefully sandbagged to find out what the actual load limit was??
Anyone on the list know?
Rex Rodebush
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 03/10/05 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone has covered a Mk III or Xtra in light grade fabric
opposed
to the usual medium that is normally supplied?.
Mike
----------------------
in 2000 the mark III was covered with,,,,, if i remember corectly,,,,,
1.7 oz fabric on the wings...... and 1.6 oz on the flight control surfaces
and cage.
boyd
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Silver fern-Rivets |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too@yahoo.co.uk>
Mick,
Have emailed you off list re. rivets but have received no reply... or
rivets...!!
Any chance of sending them so I can get back in the air...??
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Silver Fern
Microlights Ltd
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear Legs
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
<kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
No pics of the Jab/Xtra yet, but will post some soon.
Flew it for a couple of hours today.
I have offset the engine some more and got it about right now.
It is giving a climb of 950 ft/min fully loaded and indicating 75kt at 2500
rpm 82kt at2600, CHT sitting at 250deg and 270deg on the two rear cyls.
Nice to have a quiet engine ipposed to the noisy 582.
Mike
G-CDFA
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElleryWeld@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear Legs
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> Mike have you posted any pics of the Xtra with the Jabiru sounds great
> would
> like to see it :o)
>
> Maine,Ellery Batchelder
> Original Firestar
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
John H;
I vote to purchase the coffee table book, too.
Perhaps a name like "Alaska by Kolb" or
"Miss P'fer & Me Thru Alaska" or
"God Only Knows How We Made It"
I think the price is ok, too.
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
P.S: Wish I had your Intestinal Fortitude, but,
I figure if I did, I'd be dead now.
--
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi George/All:
I have never made a penny building and flying Kolb aircraft.
Never had any intention of trying to make money with something I enjoy
so much. My primary purpose of being on the Kolb List is to share
what little bit I have learned about building, crashing, rebuilding,
and flying these little airplanes. Hopefully, some of you all may
benefit from my mistakes, and not have to duplicate them.
Long cross country flights to far off exciting places is something I
truly enjoy and have enjoyed since I made my first 80 mile round trip
to Tuskegee, Alabama, and Moton Field, home of the Tuskegee Airmen,
more than 20 years ago, in an Ultrastar.
Since I always go solo, I like to share the flights with you all,
especially those that can not make those kind of flights for one
reason or other. For those that tire of this, there is always the
delete key. I do not archive these briefs into the Kolb List
Archives, so there is no trace of me ever being here.
I have a lot of stuff going on now, some that I enjoy and some that is
of necessity in order to maintain where I live. Being single puts
twice as much work load on one, unless they have a beautiful 18 year
old live in maid from Sweden. Unfortunately, I don't have one of
those. But........that's another reason I can do what I do, no wife,
no job, free as a bird (as long as my girl friend doesn't object too
much) as long as I can scrape together enough money for fuel, MRE's,
and long distance telephone card. ;-)
Take care,
john h
PS: Perhaps some day I can find time to pursue a book, or a web page
(George A), so we can do a better job of sharing some of these flights
with you all.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Before he lost control, the pilot was talking about the thermals. Ever
watch a thermal spin the leaves up as it lifts off? I would speculate that
he got into a vigorously spinning thermal and it wound up his lines for a
bit, and then it looked like he was in a centrifugal situation where he and
the chute were apparently slinging each other around a common axis. Just
speculation, I know almost nothing about those chutes. Except that now I
don't want one.
Having flown ultralights since the marginal days of "powered hang gliders"
(anybody else on the list ever foot launched a weight shift Quicksilver?)
and flown 2 axis Hummers and weight shift Easy Risers, it is hard to convey
just how much better a Kolb is than those antiques. These are indeed the
good old days of light aircraft.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 10:45 AM 3/11/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>I don't see what caused the chute to fold up like that -- I didn't see
>hotrodding but this isn't my field.
>But in general-- hotrodders always crash sooner or later, be in
>aircraft, cycles, cars, or boats.
>There's no room for showoffing in our sport; try to discourage it when
>you see it.
>Ken James' reply was excellent. He's obviously a safe-and-sane pilot.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
John, I too would be in line for copies of those adventures...on cd in a
book or a video...whatever..
Maybe just a CD. Go back and retrieve some of what you have already wrote in
story form, include a pic on each page or something like that..with
Microsoft word text and pics can be merged on the same page real easy.
I know it would be a big project..but you might be suprised what you could
do with your computer and a long cold winter!
Either way...Thanks for continueing to share those wonderful photos and
stories. I hope you dont run out too soon! LAst night Sue even sat here with
me looking at about 100 or so pics from that C-gate address.she must have
said "Oh MY" a hundred times!..then my son walked thru and sat down to
look...alot of gasps and awes from them both.!
Don Gherardini
OEM.Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
To All
I have had several people contact me offline in regard to Kiev and Warp drive
props.
Just received the 2 blade 66" Warp drive today and the Kiev is in the mail. I
will post some results in a few weeks comparing Warp Kiev and Ivo. Remember
that you can get all Three from TNK and the price should be the same as
anywhere. I try to buy everything I can from TNK to support our home base. especially
if the price is the same.
steve
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum Gross Weight, Flight Loads and Flight Safety |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Rex All,
The MkIII has actually been physically load tested to a load of 450kg +6 -3
this has to be done on all craft as part of BCAR section S which ALL UK
approved aircraft have to satisfy.
Mike
G-CDFA
Xtra/Jab
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Maximum Gross Weight, Flight Loads and Flight Safety
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
>
> Some other thoughts on the gross weight.............
>
> I checked my notes from TNK's Fly In two years ago and Bruce said that
> the Mark III was +4 -2 G's at 1000#. Their website specifications state
> +4 -2 load and +6 -3 ultimate. They also say 850# normal and 1000# max
> gross so I assume the +4 -2 is indeed at 1000# gross.
>
> On FAA cert. airplanes standard category is +3.8 -1.5 G's and utility
> category is +4.4 -1.8 G's
>
> I plan to use 1100 Max. gross on my plane so if I cipher right that
> works out to +3.64 -1.82 G's, just a slightly lower safety factor than
> standard category on the + G side.
>
> I think the big question is where Kolb got the +4 -2 number from? Was
> it calculated by hand; calculated by F.E. computer; or was the frame
> carefully sandbagged to find out what the actual load limit was??
> Anyone on the list know?
>
> Rex Rodebush
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
Richard Pike wrote:
> Having flown ultralights since the marginal days of "powered hang gliders"
> (anybody else on the list ever foot launched a weight shift Quicksilver?)
> and flown 2 axis Hummers and weight shift Easy Risers, it is hard to convey
> just how much better a Kolb is than those antiques. These are indeed the
> good old days of light aircraft.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Yes but don't you sometimes wish you still had the old Easy Riser
sitting around to take for a spin on a perfect day? The Easy Riser had a
better glide ratio with a blown engine then the kolb does anyday! :-)
~ Earl
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Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> I don't see what caused the chute to fold up like that
Looked like very strong gusty conditions to me, that fellow was extreamly
cool under more than difficult conditions, not a single OH SHIT! outa that
boy.
Major kudos to the Good Lord also.
Denny Rowe
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> I don't see what caused the chute to fold up like that
Looked like very strong gusty conditions to me, that fellow was extreamly
cool under more than difficult conditions, not a single OH SHIT! outa that
boy.
Major kudos to the Good Lord also.
Denny Rowe
Message 17
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| Subject: | John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
I have never made a penny building and flying Kolb aircraft.
Never had any intention of trying to make money with something I enjoy
so much.
-------------------
(RD) Hi John,
I have to agree with everyone who's mentioned the CD sale. I would really
enjoy having full resolution pics, with a small caption for the more notable
ones. You've already done much of the commenting, and it would just be a
matter of putting this together on a CD. I would certainly buy one, as
would many other people.
I also understand that you aren't looking to profit from these trips, and
don't want to turn this into a job. You have freely shared these beautiful
pics in the past, and I imagine that you might feel guilty charging for
them. There's no reason you have to stop posting them free if you want to,
and also no reason to feel guilty for selling them on a CD. Lot's of us
would be happy to buy the CD for the convenience of having all the pics in
one place, and we'd consider it a donation toward your fuel costs. You
won't finance the whole trip that way, but it would take a bite out of the
expenses.
I can tell you now that I will never take such a trip. It's outside my
comfort level, but the pics are absolutely beautiful, so I'm glad you share
them.
FWIW, that's my $.02.
Cheers,
Rusty (RV-3 flying again in a month, then on to the SS)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: John H and The Next Alaska Trip |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
John H.;
I'm going to chime in again, against my better judgment,
and second the comments made by Rusty, and others, on
the CD idea. I'd be right up front with the other buyers
on this project, but, would not expect it to get in the way
of your everyday living, or whenever flying.
One reason I feel so strongly about it is that I've seen
photos taken by "professionals" that make yours seem
like they belong in the same category (Adriel Heisey is
the first that comes to mind and he ALSO flies a Kolb).
For that matter, I'm fairly sure Adriel might be willing
to offer some advice on the method best suited to this
project, or maybe a source for the development of the
compilation (wish I had the knowledge 'cause I sure
would be proud to do it for you).
Whatever you decide, now or later, I think I can state
for all of us, that we will gladly support your choice.
Blue Skies,
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
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Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
Calculate the maximum stall speed that will not exceed load factor.
You'd have to determine at what stall speed will the lift produce a
given load factor? Since stall speed increases with the square root
of the load factor, the square root of the maximum load factor (Lf)
multiplied by the stall speed (Vs x Lf = Va) will give the maximum
speed. At any airspeed less than Vs times the square root of
maximum load factor the wing will stall before more load is
imposed on it than it is designed to handle.
Say 35 mph is FS2 stall, 35 x sqrt(4)= 70mph as Va at full FS2
gross of 725.
Now plug in the numbers for a less-than-gross
calculation.....Hmmmmm.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
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