Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: HKS engine (Airgriff2@aol.com)
2. 04:30 AM - welding 4130 (Ted Cowan)
3. 05:32 AM - welding (Rex Rodebush)
4. 06:11 AM - Re: 6 inch nylon azusa wheels (DAquaNut@aol.com)
5. 06:32 AM - EAA (Larry Cottrell)
6. 08:09 AM - Re: EAA (Larry Bourne)
7. 08:15 AM - Magazines (Larry Bourne)
8. 08:30 AM - Re: EAA (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
9. 09:06 AM - Welding Chromoly? (skyrider2)
10. 10:10 AM - Re: HKS engine (John Jung)
11. 11:11 AM - Rotax 2 cycle DVDs (Jon Croke)
12. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: HKS engine (Richard Pike)
13. 02:13 PM - Re: Welder (woody)
14. 02:57 PM - Re: Welder (robert bean)
15. 06:23 PM - Re: Welder (Rusty)
16. 07:24 PM - Re: Welding Chromoly? (Richard Swiderwski)
17. 07:46 PM - Re: Welder (woody)
18. 07:55 PM - Re: Welder (Rusty)
19. 09:48 PM - Re: welding 4130 (Richard Swiderwski)
20. 11:34 PM - Re: EAA (jerb)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
Hi Curtis, A great number of the Flight Star Aircraft are being sold with the
HKS engines. I have not heard of any problems at all. Not the same power as
the 582 but if that's not a concern, they run very smooth and quiet.
fly safe
Bob Griffin
Albany NY
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <trc1917@direcway.com>
I guess you can take this for what it is worth but I have been gas welding
since I was a bean sprout and found out that something red means 'hot'. I
have repaired quite a few ultralights so far and I have discovered that
normalizing the metal does make warping a problem. Even if you put it in a
jig fixture, it is going to warp. The light weight material and tubing we
use can be difficult to multi joint and even worse to normalize. I still
try to give it a little heat to line up the crystals but you gotta be real
careful. I have found the best method is to make sure it is slow cooled, no
drafts, fans or blowing air of any kind for a spell. I would like to
mention to anyone that has not welded with gas rod meant for 4130, you are
in for a rude surprise. This is difficult stuff to handle and meld with the
tubing. It flows at higher temp (so it seems) than the metal you are
melding. You will burn away a lot of tubing before you catch on. I have
been to a special class for aircraft tube welding and they recommended the
use of mild steel rod for ease and heat displacement. The worse thing you
can do is overheat the tube. If you make a nice clean puddle melted nicely
with all parts, it is about as strong as it can get. One big problem with
the harder wire, the shrink rate of the crome moly rod seems to be a great
deal worse than mild steel so you must 'hammer' to to stretch it back while
it is hot. I know I am going to have a bunch of people jump on me for my
technique but we all have out way and I do what works for me. I have never
had a weld break to this point. I used to bragg I could weld a zipper on a
cat's butt without burning the hair but now I am older and just tape his
butt shut. I think if you look real hard you will find that most use mild
steel, except for those who have too much money and think they need special
gadgets to do a job rather than SKILL. My two cents. Ted Cowan, Alabama,
ready to take the "Heat".
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
Last year I took a "SportAir Workshop" on gas welding to get myself back
up to speed. The instructor was Earl Luce (He's the guy who resurrected
Steve Whitman's "Buttercup" and sells plans and prewelded fuselages,
etc.)
The question came up about rods and Earl's choice was to use mild steel
rods. He talked about the area thing and also that 4130 is an air
hardable alloy. If you use high alloy rod the weld will be stronger but
less ductile which means more prone to crack propagation.
Look at the wall thickness of your tubing. You probably have at least 3
to 4 times as much weld thickness. If the mild steel is 60% of the
yield strength of the tubing so what! I guarantee that with only an
average weld that joint will not fail at the weld. Plus you minimize
the chance of having hard, crack prone areas in your weld if it happened
to cool too fast.
I do agree about the normalizing. Normalizing is just air cooling in
still air. After you finish a weld it is just doing that. No need to
reheat it again.
There have been thousands of planes gas welded with mild steel with no
problems. You can certainly produce a very good weld with alloy rod and
that's fine. I'll stick with the mild steel.
Rex Rodebush
From: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Welder
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski"
<rswiderski@earthlink.net>
"Jerb,
............I held your opinion & would have bet the farm on it too.
But at Sun
& Fun & went to a welding chrome moly forum & was amazed to find out
that it
is virtually a useless thing to do & worse, it almost always produces
more
warping. Microscopic photos of the metal structures were shown along
with
research results of several big studies. I just was amazed by it all.
The
consensus was that TIG is the best & easiest over all. Another "myth" I
would have bet the farm on is that you can use regular steal welding
sticks
when doing chrome moly tube joints because the weld is so big that it
doesn't matter, ie, it won't break at the weld. Well they said it does
matter & to use the appropriate rod..............."
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 6 inch nylon azusa wheels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
Group,
Please disregard my plea for 6 inch wheels, I was fortunate enough to
find a pair on ebay.
Thanks,
Ed (in Hou)
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
I tried to renew my membership to EAA today. Unfortunately I decided that while
I wanted to support EAA, I did not wish to pay the price of a subscription
to a magazine that did not have enough material about my interest in the sport
to keep me busy for more than five minutes. Well that isn't possible! You either
take the mags or you don't belong. Unfortunately I have a history of stumbling
over principals and being unable to compromise. So I did not renew. It is
really a shame, and I am saddened by this stubbornness on both our parts.
Larry, Oregon
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I hear ya, Larry. I'm probably going to go the same route this year. Sport
Pilot is the only one of my many subscriptions that goes straight into the
trash instead of the re-read pile beside the throne.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: EAA
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> I tried to renew my membership to EAA today. Unfortunately I decided
> that while I wanted to support EAA, I did not wish to pay the price of a
> subscription to a magazine that did not have enough material about my
> interest in the sport to keep me busy for more than five minutes. Well
> that isn't possible! You either take the mags or you don't belong.
> Unfortunately I have a history of stumbling over principals and being
> unable to compromise. So I did not renew. It is really a shame, and I am
> saddened by this stubbornness on both our parts.
> Larry, Oregon
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Co-incidentally to Larry Cottrell's post, I was reading the new June '05 issue of Private Pilot magazine this morning and came across an ad on page 11 that may interest some of you. It's a 3 CD set about installing, maintaining and servicing Rotax engines on aircraft. Take a look at: www.800-airwolf.com/dvd.htm . This subscription started off as Mountain Pilot a few years ago, which later was taken over by Northern Pilot, and now by Private Pilot. In the last 10 years I've read umpteen "learn to fly" articles, etc., and seldom see much of interest these days. This subs days are numbered, too. Tired ol' Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
Message 8
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04/28/2005 10:28:47 AM,
Serialize complete at 04/28/2005 10:28:47 AM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.3|September 14, 2004)
at
04/28/2005 10:29:23 AM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.3|September 14, 2004) at
04/28/2005
10:29:27 AM,
Serialize complete at 04/28/2005 10:29:27 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
Hear, Hear, brother Larry. I allowed my subscription to expire. Shortly
there after I received a call from a lady from EAA asking me to renew. I
explained that the magazine no longer contains material that interests me.
I will continue to attend Oshkosh but subscribe to the ASUA organization
instead.
My flying dollars can only go so far!
The Flying Farmer (welding stuff back together)
do not archive
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Sent by: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
04/28/2005 08:32 AM
Please respond to
kolb-list@matronics.com
To
<kolb-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
Kolb-List: EAA
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
I tried to renew my membership to EAA today. Unfortunately I decided
that while I wanted to support EAA, I did not wish to pay the price of a
subscription to a magazine that did not have enough material about my
interest in the sport to keep me busy for more than five minutes. Well
that isn't possible! You either take the mags or you don't belong.
Unfortunately I have a history of stumbling over principals and being
unable to compromise. So I did not renew. It is really a shame, and I am
saddened by this stubbornness on both our parts.
Larry, Oregon
Message 9
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| Subject: | Welding Chromoly? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
Richard,
If you happen to run across your notes on the proper welding rods for
chromoly, please post them on the list. I'd be interested in what the
recommended type were.
Thanks in advance,
Doug Lawton
NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
Matthews Field and Gliderport
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Curtis and Group,
I have a Firestar II with a 503. I would rather have an HKS. But the
cost of moving up is too great. Now, if I were looking at the cost of a
new 503, I would go for the HKS.
I not saying that everyone should choose the HKS. The 503 is great for
what the Firestar was designed to do. But I would like to do more
traveling with mine. Plus, I now live in Arizona, where airports are
far apart and the terrain is roughed.
When old Kolb tested the HKS, they determined that it would not
out-climb the 503, so they decided not to offer it. Where I think the
HKS could improve the Firestar is in lower fuel burn (more range) and
in reliability. I am not aware of any Firestars using the HKS, so I'm
not sure what the fuel burn would be, but it would have to be better
that the 503. My 503 burns about 3.8 gph at 65 mph. When I'm trying to
get somewhere, I'd like to cruise at 75 mph, but then the fuel burn
goes 5 gph or more. This would not be as much as a problem if my
Firestar carried more than 10 gallons, but it doesn't.
John Jung
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: curtis groote <cgroote1@yahoo.com>
>
> Yesterday a fellow suggested that I look seriously at
> the HKS four cycle engine for my Firestar II that I'm
> building. I scanned the entries in the archives ( two
> thousand five listed under engines) but could only see
> two entries re HKS and those being in September, 1999.
> Any comments, please? Thanks.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax 2 cycle DVDs |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Co-incidentally to Larry Cottrell's post, I was reading the new June '05
> issue of Private Pilot magazine this morning and came across an ad on page
> 11 that may interest some of you. It's a 3 CD set about installing,
> maintaining and servicing Rotax engines on aircraft.
Larry, I know you are not a big Rotax user yourself, but others on the list
are (me too!) I wanted to let everyone know that about a month ago we
upgraded OUR Rotax 2 cycle maintenance & disassembly videos to over 4 hrs of
playtime (now 2 DVDs) and now include detailed info on both the water and
air cooled models, (also the carbs, recoil starter repair, etc, etc) . We
sold a bunch back when they were just one DVD and now have an 'almost free'
upgrade for existing customers to get the 2nd DVD! Details at
www.HomebuiltHELP.com
Sorry for the 'commercial' but thought it was relevant to our listers here.
Jon
near Green Bay
FSII / CH701
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
We don't have any good solid numbers yet, so this is subject to revision,
but so far the 582 on the FSII looks like 60-65 mph at 4800 rpm, which is
giving us gph rates around 3.5 or less. Might turn out to be a fairly
efficient way to fly. Still would probably not compare to the HKS in the
long run though. Next project is to see if those 6 gallon tanks we got last
month will fit in the FSII properly.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:09 AM 4/28/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
><snip>
>
>When old Kolb tested the HKS, they determined that it would not
>out-climb the 503, so they decided not to offer it. Where I think the
>HKS could improve the Firestar is in lower fuel burn (more range) and
>in reliability. I am not aware of any Firestars using the HKS, so I'm
>not sure what the fuel burn would be, but it would have to be better
>that the 503. My 503 burns about 3.8 gph at 65 mph. When I'm trying to
>get somewhere, I'd like to cruise at 75 mph, but then the fuel burn
>goes 5 gph or more. This would not be as much as a problem if my
>Firestar carried more than 10 gallons, but it doesn't.
>
>John Jung
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Tig may be the way to go but for all the aircraft tube welding you will
ever do it is not practical. To a back yard mechanic a set of tanks will be
priceless. Treat your self to some Henrob or Dillon torches too. Check ebay.
> Tig weld it is the best way, make sure you have the correct wire and
> shielding gas for the 4130 tubing
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I agree. The most valued tools in my shop are my oxy-acetylene
torches, a big vise and a big hammer. :)
A Smith airline set has done fine for me through the years.
-BB, MkIIIc with lots of extra welded on stuff.
do not archive
On 28, Apr 2005, at 5:17 PM, woody wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
> Tig may be the way to go but for all the aircraft tube welding you
> will
> ever do it is not practical. To a back yard mechanic a set of tanks
> will be
> priceless. Treat your self to some Henrob or Dillon torches too. Check
> ebay.
>
>
>> Tig weld it is the best way, make sure you have the correct wire and
>> shielding gas for the 4130 tubing
>>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Define "practical". Sounds like you mean cost effective. If all you ever
imagine welding is steel, then gas works, and it's nice and cheap. If you
think you'll need to weld aluminum, then TIG becomes real practical. I'll
agree that it's not cheap.
BTW, one of the gas welding rigs and Henrob torches you've seen on Ebay was
mine, after I got the TIG :-)
Rusty
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Tig may be the way to go but for all the aircraft tube welding you will
ever do it is not practical. To a back yard mechanic a set of tanks will be
priceless. Treat your self to some Henrob or Dillon torches too. Check ebay.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Welding Chromoly? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Doug,
ER-80SD2 was 1st choice & ER-7056 was 2nd choice
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skyrider2
Subject: Kolb-List: Welding Chromoly?
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
Richard,
If you happen to run across your notes on the proper welding rods for
chromoly, please post them on the list. I'd be interested in what the
recommended type were.
Thanks in advance,
Doug Lawton
NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
Matthews Field and Gliderport
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Practical.... Most cost effective and most useable in a hobbiests garage.
Multi purpose, cut, weld, heat..... Practical.
For most people welding is an occasional requirement to git er done. If
you are a professional welder or do a lot of welding yes go for the best
equipment. The average hobbiest can get by quite well with a set of tanks
and even weld aluminum with the Henrob. wish I had seen your ad before I
bought mine :)
> Define "practical". Sounds like you mean cost effective. If all you ever
> imagine welding is steel, then gas works, and it's nice and cheap. If you
> think you'll need to weld aluminum, then TIG becomes real practical. I'll
> agree that it's not cheap.
>
> BTW, one of the gas welding rigs and Henrob torches you've seen on Ebay
was
> mine, after I got the TIG :-)
>
> Rusty
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
> Tig may be the way to go but for all the aircraft tube welding you will
> ever do it is not practical. To a back yard mechanic a set of tanks will
be
> priceless. Treat your self to some Henrob or Dillon torches too. Check
ebay.
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Sorry, but the "average" welder ain't gonna weld aluminum with gas, even
with a Henrob. That advertising ploy is what suckered me into buying one
:-) Then when it seemed impossible, I got the Tin Man videos, and flux, and
lenses, and, and,... Still couldn't do it, but my Miller Dynasty 200DX sure
does.
Cheers,
Rusty
-----
The average hobbiest can get by quite well with a set of tanks and even weld
aluminum with the Henrob. wish I had seen your ad before I bought mine :)
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderwski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Ted, thanks for the feedback on alloy rods, I'll just stick with my mild
steel. ...Richard Swiderski do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan
Subject: Kolb-List: welding 4130
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <trc1917@direcway.com>
I guess you can take this for what it is worth but I have been gas welding
since I was a bean sprout and found out that something red means 'hot'. I
have repaired quite a few ultralights so far and I have discovered that
normalizing the metal does make warping a problem. Even if you put it in a
jig fixture, it is going to warp. The light weight material and tubing we
use can be difficult to multi joint and even worse to normalize. I still
try to give it a little heat to line up the crystals but you gotta be real
careful. I have found the best method is to make sure it is slow cooled, no
drafts, fans or blowing air of any kind for a spell. I would like to
mention to anyone that has not welded with gas rod meant for 4130, you are
in for a rude surprise. This is difficult stuff to handle and meld with the
tubing. It flows at higher temp (so it seems) than the metal you are
melding. You will burn away a lot of tubing before you catch on. I have
been to a special class for aircraft tube welding and they recommended the
use of mild steel rod for ease and heat displacement. The worse thing you
can do is overheat the tube. If you make a nice clean puddle melted nicely
with all parts, it is about as strong as it can get. One big problem with
the harder wire, the shrink rate of the crome moly rod seems to be a great
deal worse than mild steel so you must 'hammer' to to stretch it back while
it is hot. I know I am going to have a bunch of people jump on me for my
technique but we all have out way and I do what works for me. I have never
had a weld break to this point. I used to bragg I could weld a zipper on a
cat's butt without burning the hair but now I am older and just tape his
butt shut. I think if you look real hard you will find that most use mild
steel, except for those who have too much money and think they need special
gadgets to do a job rather than SKILL. My two cents. Ted Cowan, Alabama,
ready to take the "Heat".
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Larry,
EAA used to accept no magazine memberships, they didn't advertise it or
make it well known for oblivious reasons, but they have done it in the
past. Interesting thing is I've facing the same decision this month. I
take the normal Sport Aviation and what was the Experimenter, but have been
considering dropping at the new Sport Pilot rag and maybe both. The low
attendance at Sun & Fun the last two years is starting to say something,
but not sure anyones home to hear the noise. We'll just have to see how
this all plays out.
jerb
At 06:32 AM 4/28/05 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> I tried to renew my membership to EAA today. Unfortunately I decided
> that while I wanted to support EAA, I did not wish to pay the price of a
> subscription to a magazine that did not have enough material about my
> interest in the sport to keep me busy for more than five minutes. Well
> that isn't possible! You either take the mags or you don't belong.
> Unfortunately I have a history of stumbling over principals and being
> unable to compromise. So I did not renew. It is really a shame, and I am
> saddened by this stubbornness on both our parts.
>Larry, Oregon
>
>
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