Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Hangers (N27SB@aol.com)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Hangers (Bob Dalton)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: Hangers (N27SB@aol.com)
4. 12:20 PM - Re: FSII vortex generators (Jack & Louise Hart)
5. 03:58 PM - Re: Welder (woody)
6. 04:13 PM - Re: Welder (Rusty)
7. 06:40 PM - Re: FSII vortex generators (possums)
8. 09:51 PM - Re: HKS engine (David L. Bigelow)
9. 10:20 PM - Re: Welder (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
10. 10:21 PM - Re: New Kolber (jerb)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
To All, I have been busy for the last week assembling a new hanger. For a
long time I have needed a building large enough for all my projects. I bought
a 30 x 40 P model Quanset from American Steel Span. Even though it is over 14
ft tall, one person can put it together. I should be finished this weekend.
Steve B
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob Dalton" <wiserguy@comcast.net>
Steve,
Can we see some pics of your project?
Bob Dalton
Manteca,CA
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N27SB@aol.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Hangers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
To All, I have been busy for the last week assembling a new hanger. For a
long time I have needed a building large enough for all my projects. I
bought
a 30 x 40 P model Quanset from American Steel Span. Even though it is over
14
ft tall, one person can put it together. I should be finished this weekend.
Steve B
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 4/29/05 8:00:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
wiserguy@comcast.net writes:
> Steve,
> Can we see some pics of your project?
>
> Bob Dalton
> Manteca,CA
>
I did not put any on photoshare because I was not sure if it was Kolb enough.
I will be happy to send you a few and if any one else would like to see them
I will put them on photoshare. I am very pleased with the product and it makes
life easier with the local govt. Permits are easy because it is pre-eng and
has stamped eng drawings. The cost was only $7500 for the building and that
included freight. Add another 6K if you want a nice slab. My nosey neighbor
wanted to know what I was building. Since he is used to seeing planes,boats,cars
there he was not shocked when I told him it was a Time Machine. Guess he has
never seen a
Quanset.
Steve B
FireFly #007
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | FSII vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 08:29 AM 4/26/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
>
>The cubcrafters website seams correct to me. I am curious to hear the
>reasoning behind the pattern used by the high powered FSII guys. Your
>thoughts below track mine exactly, the farther forward you put the VGs the
>more they should work to delay separation (stall).
>
>
Topher,
I believe it has to do with vortex energy dissipation over a thick high
camber wing. The FSII and the FF cruise at or below the stall speeds of
most aircraft. As a result there is less energy in the vortex cast off by
the VG. If you place it close to the leading edge on FSII or FF wing the
vortex will dissipate before it gets to the flow separation area and you
will notice little improvement in performance or aileron effectiveness.
I do not believe one needs to worry about placing them further forward in
the midsection to cause the center of the wing to stall first. The Kolb
pusher configuration maintains good airflow over the mid section of the
wing. But if one is going to use VG's as a reason to make slower landing
approaches or to fly slow or establish high climb rates close to the ground,
I wish you luck.
You are correct in recommending that if one is going to add VG's it is
important to test them at altitude. My FireFly is very docile and will not
break into a clean stall. It will mush with no tendency to drop a wing.
You can stand it on the prop, and apply a little aileron and it will rotate
without dropping a wing. Low speed aileron effectiveness is improved, and
this helps during cross wind take offs and landings. Increased low speed
lift helps with getting off tall wet grass fields with out a nose over.
As of June this year I will have been flying with VG's five years. They are
fixed to the fabric with thin Scotch double sided tape. To prevent leading
edge lift up, vinyl electricians tape was placed over the top of the VG and
forward onto the fabric. Up to this point I have not lost one.
..............
I went up to K02 to clean out the hangar and to get the FireFly ready to
ferry to I22. I discovered two bays down is the home for a new Murphy Moose
- no paint and the aluminum is not polished. The more I looked at it I
realized the wing has much in common with the Kolb designs. I got out the
tape measure and found the chord is 60 inches and the max thickness is a
little over 8 inches.
The chord compares well to the FireFly but the thickness is about two inches
greater and the airfoil is not as flat on the bottom or the camber is less
than the FireFly's. I measured from the leading edge back to the line on
which the VG's were located and it came out to be 8 inches. Dropping and
inch to compensate for surface distance, the VG chord location is 11%. The
Moose VG's were made from a thin "T" aluminum extrusion where the leg of the
"T" was about .25 inches long. My VG's are located at about 16% chord and
are .375 inches tall.
Also, there were VG's on the bottom of the Moose horizontal stabilizer and
on each side of the vertical stabilizer. If I put VG's on the vertical fin,
it may let the FireFly slip a little better.
I am moving the last load of STUFF to Indiana tomorrow. When I come back to
get the FireFly, I will get some photos of the VG's on the Moose.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO - tomorrow - Winchester, IN
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
I saw the Henrob at Osh and told the guy if he could teach me to weld
aluminum I would buy his torch. 10 minutes later I owned a Henrob. Personal
instruction must have made the difference.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Sorry, but the "average" welder ain't gonna weld aluminum with gas, even
> with a Henrob. That advertising ploy is what suckered me into buying one
> :-) Then when it seemed impossible, I got the Tin Man videos, and flux,
and
> lenses, and, and,... Still couldn't do it, but my Miller Dynasty 200DX
sure
> does.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty
>
>
> -----
> The average hobbiest can get by quite well with a set of tanks and even
weld
> aluminum with the Henrob. wish I had seen your ad before I bought mine :)
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
You could also be above average, or perhaps I'm below :-)
Glad it works for you.
Rusty (anyone want a Sonerai-II with 2180 engine cheap)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
I saw the Henrob at Osh and told the guy if he could teach me to weld
aluminum I would buy his torch. 10 minutes later I owned a Henrob. Personal
instruction must have made the difference.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Sorry, but the "average" welder ain't gonna weld aluminum with gas,
> even with a Henrob. That advertising ploy is what suckered me into
> buying one
> :-) Then when it seemed impossible, I got the Tin Man videos, and flux,
and
> lenses, and, and,... Still couldn't do it, but my Miller Dynasty
> 200DX
sure
> does.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty
>
>
> -----
> The average hobbiest can get by quite well with a set of tanks and
> even
weld
> aluminum with the Henrob. wish I had seen your ad before I bought mine
> :)
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | FSII vortex generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
>I went up to K02 to clean out the hangar and to get the FireFly ready to
>ferry to I22. I discovered two bays down is the home for a new Murphy Moose
>- no paint and the aluminum is not polished. The more I looked at it I
>realized the wing has much in common with the Kolb designs. I got out the
>tape measure and found the chord is 60 inches and the max thickness is a
>little over 8 inches.
>
>The chord compares well to the FireFly but the thickness is about two inches
>greater and the airfoil is not as flat on the bottom or the camber is less
>than the FireFly's. I measured from the leading edge back to the line on
>which the VG's were located and it came out to be 8 inches. Dropping and
>inch to compensate for surface distance, the VG chord location is 11%. The
>Moose VG's were made from a thin "T" aluminum extrusion where the leg of the
>"T" was about .25 inches long. My VG's are located at about 16% chord and
>are .375 inches tall.
-----------------------------------
The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the
ailerons)
back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise
speed, too far back and they become ineffective.
I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured
through the middle of the cord of the wing.
http://www.landshorter.com/
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
I did some checking on the HKS when before I purchased a 503 for my Firestar.
The biggest issue I could see (besides cost) was mounting. The crankcase is quite
a bit lower than the mounts, and it looked to me like the engine would have
to be mounted higher with a resulting higher thrust line. I know that "Old
Kolb" tried it, but have not seen any pictures.
Dave Bigelow
FS2
Kamuela, Hawaii
"I have a Firestar II with a 503. I would rather have an HKS. But the
cost of moving up is too great. Now, if I were looking at the cost of a
new 503, I would go for the HKS."
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
Rusty
You got me curious, whats that 2180 engine your talking about can you tell me
some info on it two or four stroke HP who makes it gear box or not and Prop
and size ? and what you want for it
Ellery
do not archive
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Try approaching Tracy O'Brien direct. That sounds a bit high to
me. Several sets of these have been installed on CGS Hawks with very
positive results and feedback. By the way they were a snap to install,
hardest part was bleeding the air out of the master cylinder and that is
more technique used. Last I knew the kit for a single place hawk was
around $300 - included two caliper & disc sets and single handle stick
mounted Hegar master cylinder. Part of the cost difference may be the
aircraft's weight and brake size required to handle it. Drill down through
the site until you get to the different brake kit offerings.
http://www.tracyobrien.com/
jerb
At 08:02 AM 4/27/05 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "c b" <seedeebee@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I bought Frank Reynen's amphib Mark III C on Monday. I absolutely love it.
>Frank is really great too and did an excellent job.
>
>I am thinking of switching it to conventional gear until I get my SES
>rating, so that I can get insurance on it in the meantime.
>
>I called Kolb this morning and they want (roughly) $500 for the landing gear
>legs and $900 for the O'Brien brakes.
>
>Can anyone tell me if there is a less expensive way to go? How necessary are
>brakes anyway...?
>
>Anyone know where I might find a used set of steel gear legs/brakes?
>
>Anyway, I look forward to talking with and meeting you guys.
>
>Happy flying!
>
>Chris Banys
>Kolb Mk III C on Amphib. Floats
>
>
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