---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/17/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Re: Firefly spinning beahavior (Larry Bourne) 2. 01:36 AM - Re: Firestar 2 Vortex Generator Tests (David L. Bigelow) 3. 04:49 AM - Re: Re: Firestar 2 Vortex Generator Tests (robert bean) 4. 04:49 AM - MV (John Hauck) 5. 08:57 AM - strut covers (b young) 6. 09:40 AM - Re: MV (neilsenrm05@comcast.net) 7. 01:52 PM - MV (John Jung) 8. 02:12 PM - Re: MV (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 9. 06:05 PM - Re: strut covers (Bob N.) 10. 06:24 PM - MV (Larry Bourne) 11. 08:19 PM - monument valley (b young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:24 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly spinning beahavior --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Gotta chuckle. After meeting you, I really have trouble merging Beauford and Bill Tuton in my alleged mind. Thanks for the ongoing grins, amigo. Sad ol' Lar...........still beating my head against the wall trying to decide what to do this weekend - MV or not to MV. For 1 day ?? 600 - 700 miles, each way ?? To see or not to see everyone after all the anticipation. Aaaaaarrrrgghh ! ! ! Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beauford" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly spinning beahavior > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" > > Brother Jones... > Re: your spin fetish... > > All I can address is my own machine... FF #076... > Yessir, it will certainly spin with great gusto if pushed... I tried it in > both directions, just for curiosity's sake... that little machine will > wrap > right up if left to its' own devices... > > Recovery for my kite was conventional ... release back pressure and apply > opposite rudder.... > It stopped rotation in one half of one turn and resumed normal aviation in > a > second or two... > My amateur observations: I had to force it to spin... it did not have a > proclivity for spinning, but had to be enticed to do so... It quit the > business immediately when offered an opportunity. > > My curiosity was fully satisfied... > > I wish you well in your experimentation drills... Keep track of the > surface, > sir.... it tends to be spectacularly unforgiving of miscalculation... > > As far as the remainder of what you should know.... buy low... sell > high... > > Worth what you paid for it... > > Best Regards, > > Beauford of Brandon, FL > FF# 076 > Do Not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevin-jones" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly spinning beahavior > > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kevin-jones" >> >> At long last I have a Kolb aircraft. It is a firefly which I bought >> from Ed Reilly. I am going to give it a try soon. When I take a plane up >> for the first time it is my practice to try a few stalls. Usually I have >> plenty of people to ask but this time I don't. So I go to the source. How >> does the Firefly stall? Does it try to spin? Is there any difficulty >> getting it out of a spin? What should I know? >> Kevin Jones >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:17 AM PST US From: "David L. Bigelow" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar 2 Vortex Generator Tests --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" Richard, I added some extra dihedral to my Firestar too. With the stock dihedral, there is almost no yaw/roll coupling, and the aircraft has spiral instability (once banked, the bank continues to increase unless control input is made). I also put small bendable aluminun trim tabs on one aileron and the rudder. It will now fly hands off, and rudder inputs (hands off the stick) will eventually translate to roll in the same direction. There may be some reduction in roll rate because of the added dihedral, but not enough to be significant. Nice job on the web page - lot of good hints. I think I'll do the stablizer bracket mod and remove the lead weights from the nose. No sense flying around with 6 lb of extra weight Dave Bigelow FS2 Kamuela, Hawaii "Pitch stability? Firestars have pitch stability? Wow... Yes, it still has some stability. Some. With the extra dihedral it has, it will fly hands off no problem." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:19 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar 2 Vortex Generator Tests --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Dave and lift strut builders, that will be my next project (when I again muster up the ambition). I miss using rudder input for minor wing leveling too. Annoying to have to wiggle the butter churn constantly in slight thermal conditions. And a steep turn should require only back pressure once your angle is set. From the heft of my struts, I imagine I should shed about 5 lbs with a set of welded up streamline steel. -BB do not archive On 17, May 2005, at 4:35 AM, David L. Bigelow wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" > > > Richard, > > I added some extra dihedral to my Firestar too. With the stock > dihedral, there is almost no yaw/roll coupling, and the aircraft has > spiral instability (once banked, the bank continues to increase unless > control input is made). I also put small bendable aluminun trim tabs > on one aileron and the rudder. It will now fly hands off, and rudder > inputs (hands off the stick) will eventually translate to roll in the > same direction. There may be some reduction in roll rate because of > the added dihedral, but not enough to be significant. > > Nice job on the web page - lot of good hints. I think I'll do the > stablizer bracket mod and remove the lead weights from the nose. No > sense flying around with 6 lb of extra weight > > Dave Bigelow > FS2 > Kamuela, Hawaii > > "Pitch stability? Firestars have pitch stability? Wow... > Yes, it still has some stability. Some. > With the extra dihedral it has, it will fly hands off no problem." > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:37 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Morning Gang: Still working on the first cup of coffee. Packed and ready to go. Will go back through some bags to toss out stuff I do not need, and insure I have everything I do need. It is so easy to over pack. In a little airplane, that ain't good. Weather looks great for today. May even luck out and get a little tail wind. Hope to make Love County Airport, Marietta, OK, this evening, around 636 miles. Will make for a good day's flying. If I get off here at 0900, I'll have 12 hours of day light to fly today. At 75 mph ground speed will take 8+30 flight time, but we are going to get a little help from the wind, soooooo we can probably guess at 8 or less hours today. Tomorrow will be another story, but only 7 hours flight time. Winds will be topping out at 24 mph out of the south and then the west. Will be trying to make Sandia East Air Park on the east side of Sandia Mountain, from Albuquerque, NM. Always seem to have a head wind coming into the Albuquerque area from Santa Rosa, along the Interstate. Have to look over and watch the 18 wheelers outrun me while my ASI is indicating 85 mph. Oh well, I don't have to look over there. ;-) Thursday, will be a short day, 2+30, unless I do not make good time Wednesday. Winds are supposed to be favorable to get me into MV. Looking forward to seeing everybody. Take care, john h 334-315-2621 cell PS: Looking for my first Navajo Taco when I get to Goulding's, and a pot of coffee to go with it. ;-) DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:06 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: strut covers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" Still, I'd use the bottom of the wing for reference, it's easier to measure. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> i am with tom i used the wing for mine.... my thinking was along the lines of ( i think it was the builder of the balanka ) he thought that every drag producing item on the aircraft should produce lift if at all possible..... so by installing the streemlined covers at the same angle of attack as the bottom of the wing.... and if they would create even enough lift to cary their weight, so much the better. boyd ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:44 AM PST US From: neilsenrm05@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: neilsenrm05@comcast.net Morning All I'm in Mesa, Az seeing my parents. I plan to drive up to MV on Friday and back on Sunday. I have my camping gear and will be camping with the gang. Is there anyone in the area that would like to share the ride with me. Contact me off the list or call my parents number here at 480-984-7991 Also I tried to call Craig Nelson at the number on the Kolb data base so that I could get a first hand look at his airplane and the cowling on his MKIIIx but the number is not in service. If you are out there and wouldn't mind brief visit please get back with me Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > Morning Gang: > > Still working on the first cup of coffee. > Morning All I'm in Mesa, Az seeing my parents. I plan to drive up to MV on Friday and back on Sunday. I have my camping gear and will be camping with the gang. Is there anyone in thearea that would like to share the ride with me. Contact me off the list or call my parents number here at 480-984-7991 Also I tried to call Craig Nelson at the number on the Kolb data base so that I could get a first hand look at his airplane and the cowling on his MKIIIx but the number is not in service. If you are out there and wouldn't mind brief visit please get back with me Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Morning Gang: Still working on the first cup of coffee. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:18 PM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung MV Group, My Firestar is fueled, oiled, packed, and inspected. I plan to take off from Buckeye Muni Thursday morning and arrive at MV sometime in the afternoon. I will be stopping at Wickenburg to top off with fuel, then on to Valle for fuel, a rest and a vist to their aviation museum. After that, I'll stop at Tuba City to top off and them on to Monument Valley. Total miles is 316. That's not far for some, but it will be my longest cross-country. Plus, it is over some very remote and rugged country. I'm looking forward to the flight as well the weekend of visiting and flying. John Jung ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:54 PM PST US From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Rick, Uncle Craig is out of town at this moment, and won't be getting in til late sat. night. I'll be glad to meet with you and show you his Xtra. We are in Gilbert- Lindsey & Guadalupe area. I'll give you a call at your parents home. Tim Gherkins FSII/Xtra Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of neilsenrm05@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: neilsenrm05@comcast.net Morning All I'm in Mesa, Az seeing my parents. I plan to drive up to MV on Friday and back on Sunday. I have my camping gear and will be camping with the gang. Is there anyone in the area that would like to share the ride with me. Contact me off the list or call my parents number here at 480-984-7991 Also I tried to call Craig Nelson at the number on the Kolb data base so that I could get a first hand look at his airplane and the cowling on his MKIIIx but the number is not in service. If you are out there and wouldn't mind brief visit please get back with me Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > Morning Gang: > > Still working on the first cup of coffee. > Morning All I'm in Mesa, Az seeing my parents. I plan to drive up to MV on Friday and back on Sunday. I have my camping gear and will be camping with the gang. Is there anyone in thearea that would like to share the ride with me. Contact me off the list or call my parents number here at 480-984-7991 Also I tried to call Craig Nelson at the number on the Kolb data base so that I could get a first hand look at his airplane and the cowling on his MKIIIx but the number is not in service. If you are out there and wouldn't mind brief visit please get back with me Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Morning Gang: Still working on the first cup of coffee. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:56 PM PST US From: "Bob N." Subject: Re: Kolb-List: strut covers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." Although this is not Kolb-list specific, I've had some experience in strut coverings. On my Cessna Cardinal, in the process of cleaning up a lot of drag, I installed new gear leg covers. Tufted the originals and found they were almost completely stalled at cruising! Made new covers, much wider, tufted them, and adjusted. At the angle of min. drag (smooth tufts) they were about same angle as bottom of wing. Bob N. http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:38 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Can't stand it. That durned ol' John Hauck hadta go and mention those Navajo Tacos, and my mouth started watering. If'n you've never tried one, you're missing a real treat. 'Sides, I promised Jim Hefner a look at a couple of photo books I have, and can't back out on that, now can I ?? Not to mention seeing the rest of the crew up there, and maybe bumming a ride or 3. Truck's all dieseled up and camper's already loaded with everything but perishables and personals, so I'll leave Palm Springs on Thursday afternoon, (my Friday) and camp partway; prob'ly in Kingman, AZ, then be in MV by noon Friday. Leave there on Sat afternoon around 3 or 4 PM, and camp in Flagstaff or Kingman, and be home in time for work on Sunday aft at 3:30 PM. Like I just told Tim off List - when you gotta go, you gotta go. It's only about a 1500 mile round trip. Nuffing to it. Long Legged Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:12 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: monument valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" i just got an email from jim heffner, he has arrived at monument valley early and found that the tiedown cables have been removed..... you will need to bring your own tiedowns and anchors....... jim will try and see if he can get the management to get something installed before we arrive but is not sure it will happen.... he also mentioned that the ground is extreemely hard after all the moisture recieved there this winter..... i am leaving tomorrow ( wed ) morning, eric weaver has had van trouble but has gone on to plan 2 and pulling his trailor with another truck.... i hope to see as many there as possib le. boyd