Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Re: aileron spades (Eugene Zimmerman)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: aileron spades (PATRICK LADD)
3. 05:50 AM - Re: aileron spades (Richard Pike)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Firefly guys... (Jeremy Casey)
5. 08:20 AM - Re: Firefly guys... (N27SB@aol.com)
6. 05:05 PM - Returned to the Web & Kolb List (Jack & Louise Hart)
7. 05:33 PM - Re: Returned to the Web & Kolb List (robert bean)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: aileron spades |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
Rich,
But shouldn't spades minimize the twist on the tube from the torque
since the force would be divided between the spade and the control horn?
Richard Pike wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> Before you go to the trouble of spades - try leading into your turns with a
> lot more rudder. The FSII likes that and seems to respond quicker if you
> treat it as a rudder first airplane. Once you lead with rudder and then
> follow with the ailerons, it becomes a lot more responsive.
>
> As far as using spades - something I have noticed is that the inboard half
> of the aileron tube torques when you try and use a lot of aileron. Next
> time you fly, watch one of the ailerons while you cram the stick over as
> far as it will go. The aileron hardly moves - the tube is twisting. So if
> you decide to try spades, be careful. I am not sure the aileron tubes are
> up to what might happen if the spades decided they wanted to run the show.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> At 08:24 PM 5/18/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimmy and jo ann" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
>>
>>Will try this again; my last try evidently did not go out. Have any of
>>you tried spades on the kolb ailerons? I have changed the leverage on my
>>bellcrank on FSII, but ailerons still seem heavy--and not very responsive.
>>If so, what improvement do you get, and what is the consensus on
>>structural integrity of our ailerons with spades?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Jimmy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: aileron spades |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Have any of you tried spades on the kolb ailerons? >>
Hi,
I haven`t got into the air yet with my Kolb but certaibnly on my trial
flight I found the ailerons exttremely heavy. I didn`t have the opportunity
to experiment but I get the feeling that it will be similar to my
Challenger.
In that case the answer is a heavy bootfull of rudder.
The trouble is that many ultrlight pilots trained on GA a/c which use hardly
any rudder. If you trained in gliders you will apply rudder automatically.
Certainly in the Challenger is almost impossible to suddenly reverse a bank
with aileron only. Give her full rudder and she will surge over.
I should try that before adding spades which may strain the aileron tubes.
Good luck
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: aileron spades |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Yes, absolutely. But in my case, that assumes that I know what I am doing
and make the spades the right size, and put them in the right place. I
think spades might be a great idea. I actually have the mounts I made up
for spades lying in with some other unused steel tubing, they are already
primered, but I decided not to install them. If you have seen my web page,
you know I like to try different ideas, but I suspect spades might be one
of those areas where I know just enough to really screw things up. Maybe
someone else will solve the spade equation, that would be good. In the
meantime, the MKIII with repositioned push rods flies great without spades,
and the FSII with slightly repositioned push rods flies great if you lead
with a good dose of rudder, so I'm quitting while I'm ahead.
PS: If anybody does add spades, don't forget to readjust your aileron
counter balances.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:47 AM 5/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
><eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
>
>Rich,
>But shouldn't spades minimize the twist on the tube from the torque
>since the force would be divided between the spade and the control horn?
>
>
>Richard Pike wrote:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
> >
> > Before you go to the trouble of spades - try leading into your turns
> with a
> > lot more rudder. The FSII likes that and seems to respond quicker if you
> > treat it as a rudder first airplane. Once you lead with rudder and then
> > follow with the ailerons, it becomes a lot more responsive.
> >
> > As far as using spades - something I have noticed is that the inboard half
> > of the aileron tube torques when you try and use a lot of aileron. Next
> > time you fly, watch one of the ailerons while you cram the stick over as
> > far as it will go. The aileron hardly moves - the tube is twisting. So if
> > you decide to try spades, be careful. I am not sure the aileron tubes are
> > up to what might happen if the spades decided they wanted to run the show.
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> >
> >
> > At 08:24 PM 5/18/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimmy and jo ann" <hillstw@jhill.biz>
> >>
> >>Will try this again; my last try evidently did not go out. Have any of
> >>you tried spades on the kolb ailerons? I have changed the leverage on my
> >>bellcrank on FSII, but ailerons still seem heavy--and not very responsive.
> >>If so, what improvement do you get, and what is the consensus on
> >>structural integrity of our ailerons with spades?
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>
> >>Jimmy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Thanks Steve...owe you one...
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: N27SB@aol.com [mailto:N27SB@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly guys...
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/18/2005 12:58:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
n79rt@kilocharlie.us writes:
>
> The "why" for this question is kinda long, but I would like to know a
> couple of measurements from a Firefly. First would be the distance
from
> the bolt at the fuselage H-section to the rear end of the tube.
Second
> would be the distance from the inboard face of the inboard steel rib
to
> the H-section bolt. Also what is the actual end-end length of the
wing?
> (Figuring approx. 10'2.)
>
> Thanks a ton.
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
First would be the distance from
the bolt at the fuselage H-section to the rear end of the tube. 114.5"
Second
would be the distance from the inboard face of the inboard steel rib to
the H-section bolt. 44" (inboard face to CL of bolt) Note, The
Firefly
does not have a wing H-section ala Firestar or MK III. but I used the
mount bolt
of the Aft strut.
Also what is the actual end-end length of the wing?
(Figuring approx. 10'2.) 123" (inboard face of rib to wing tip)
Steve Boetto
FF #007 Old Kolb
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly guys... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/19/05 8:04:58 AM Central Daylight Time,
n79rt@kilocharlie.us writes:
> Thanks Steve...owe you one...
>
>
No problem, mine sits here right at the house. I alo have a kit that I
started on so itis easy to measure.
Steve
do not archive
ff#007
Message 6
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| Subject: | Returned to the Web & Kolb List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
Kolbers,
It has been about three weeks off the Web and the List. Just got hooked
back up today. I checked my emails over the web by use of borrowed
computers etc. But it is great to have my machine up and running.
The FireFly is still at K02. The wife has two more weeks to work and then I
can go get it. I have been picking rocks, leveling and seeding lawns, etc.,
etc., & etc. It has been agonizing to live two miles from an airport,
working out side, and hearing the planes take off, and to think that could
have been me.
Noticed in the accident/incident data that a two place Kolb hit the ground
at Lima, Ohio. Tried to find out something from the newspapers but was
unable to do so. Anyone hear what happened?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Returned to the Web & Kolb List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Jack, not a clue, however I notice it not being registered.
-BB do not archive
On 19, May 2005, at 8:05 PM, Jack & Louise Hart wrote:
> Noticed in the accident/incident data that a two place Kolb hit the
> ground
> at Lima, Ohio. Tried to find out something from the newspapers but was
> unable to do so. Anyone hear what happened?
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Jack & Louise Hart
> jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
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