---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/31/05: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS (Larry Bourne) 2. 02:02 AM - Re: Memorial Day (PATRICK LADD) 3. 02:44 AM - Re: Firestar Spiral Instability (David L. Bigelow) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Firestar Spiral Instability (Jack & Louise Hart) 5. 05:33 AM - stabilizer incidence (Rex Rodebush) 6. 05:51 AM - Re: vortex generators (John Jung) 7. 07:36 AM - Re: Homer Fly-In (Terry Frantz) 8. 09:20 AM - Re: Firefly Tail Wheel Weight (jerb) 9. 09:26 AM - Re: Firefly (jerb) 10. 12:40 PM - Kolb fatal crash (ray anderson) 11. 01:14 PM - Re: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS (Jim Ballenger) 12. 01:23 PM - Re: stabilizer incidence (Jim Ballenger) 13. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: vortex generators (possums) 14. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: vortex generators (Michael Sharp) 15. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: vortex generators (possums) 16. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: vortex generators (possums) 17. 05:40 PM - Re: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS (Larry Bourne) 18. 05:55 PM - Re: Firestar Spiral Instability (Steve Kroll) 19. 06:20 PM - Re: Firestar Spiral Instability (Larry Cottrell) 20. 07:19 PM - Re: Kolb fatal crash (dama) 21. 08:10 PM - Re: Kolb fatal crash (possums) 22. 09:14 PM - Re: Firestar Spiral Instability (Richard Pike) 23. 10:24 PM - Re: kendale bearings (DAquaNut@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:01 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Congratulations, Jim. That's gotta be a great feeling. You're an inspiration.......hopefully I'll join you soon............now listen to the nay-sayers. :-) The guys at MV ragged me to where I gotta get it done. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" > > All > > This is a little late but my MK III X received it airworthiness > certificate on 7 May and I flew it's first flight on 14 May. The > horizontal stabilizer incidence was way off, I had to hold stick forward > as far as I could stretch my arms. After researching the archives and > reading Guy Swenson's comments on the HZ stab incidence and talking to > Bill Futrell, I had TNK send me one of the adjustable brackets(thanks > Donny,Travis and Denny). I brought the LE up 2 5/8" and it solved the > problem. The next issue to deal with was the heavy ailerons. I moved > the push rods in one inch as many of you have and it did the trick, > (thanks). The next problem was to trim the ailerons and rudder. I used > the lexan as TNK manual describes and it works great. I can now fly > without my legs getting tried from holding rudder and my arm from holding > aileron. > > Some very preliminary stats are it stalls at 38 mph IAS. It will do 72 > mph IAS at 5400 rpm and 92 mph IAS WOT, 6270 rpm. I ended up using a > Rotax 582 with a 3 bladed 66" tapered tips Warp drive prop and have it > pitched at 10.5 degrees. I am monitoring the engine with an EIS and so > far it's great, a super piece of equipment. > > My EGT and CHT reading are all well with specs but my water temp will > redline (175 degree) on a climb. I have the twin radiators and have some > obstructions in front of them. I plan on rearranging my coolant overflow > tank and mounting an air scoop on the muffler side to get more air flow to > the radiator due to the oil tank location. > > Any way I want to thank all of you who share your expertise and opinions > on the list. It certainly helped me with the building. Now I need to > learn to land the MK III. It seems to just flop down the last foot or so. > It's not a pretty landing or even a good one but it's on the ground in one > piece and nothing bent so far. > > Jim Ballenger > Selling a FS KXP 447 > Flying a MK III X 582 > Virginia Beach, VA > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:24 AM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Memorial Day --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" In Windsor Ontario we have had a Lancaster bomber >> Hi Woody, You have in Canada also a flying Lancaster. At least I believe so. I collect signed aviation prints and I have a painting of that Lanc. flying into Colerne, a local field, on her delivery flight on June 6th. D-Day. She had an all Canuck crew and did about 8 raids into France in the next 10 days. On her last day she was jumped while attacking railway sidings and caught fire. The upper gunner named Mynarsky left his position when the pilot ordered bale out but when he got down into the fuselage he found that the rear gunner was trapped. In a Lanc the rear turret had to be facing directly aft before the gunner coud enter or exit. In this case the hydraulics were shot up and the hand controls jammed. Mynarsky went back through the flames and tried to help the rear gunner to escape. Finally the gunner told him to leave or he would be killed too. Mynarsky went back through the flames to the exit port and, now on fire himself, saluted the gunner and jumped out. The French Resistance reported seeing him fall to his death with his parachute burning. The Lancaster broke up in the air, the rest of the crew had baled out, and the rear gunner landed safely when the tailplane and his turret floated to earth with him in it. The Canadian government I understand maintain a flying Lancaster with the original `Mynarsky`s Lancaster` registration numbers as a memorial to all the Canadian Bomber crews lost in WW2. I managed to get into a Lancaster last year while it taxied. There is very little room to move and the mainspar, about 4 ft high, has to be climbed over every time you go up or down the fuselage What it must have been like being in a crashing, burning bomber beggars the imagination. All honour to the bomber crews who sustained the most horrific casualty figures, heavier than any other branch of the Services and yet were villified for bombing some targets. Dresden for instance. `Bomber` Harris the man at the head of the RAF Bomber attack was the only leader of the Services not rewarded by honours bestowed on all other Chiefs. Remeber them. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:23 AM PST US From: "David L. Bigelow" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Spiral Instability --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" Aircraft responsiveness and stability are not mutually exclusive. The very best flying aircraft have both. You can build some stability into a Kolb without destroying it's responsiveness. You won't make it into a Cessna 150 by tuning out an undesirable flying characteristic like spiral instability. It's like driving a sports car with the suspension toe in and camber set wrong. It's twitchy and bothersome to drive like that, but of course, if you drive it that way long enough, you get used to it. Set the toe in and camber correctly, and you still have a responsive great handling machine. It's just easier and less fatiguing to drive. Some of the military fighters I've flown have a roll rate fast enough to bang your head against the side of the canopy if you give them hard aileron, yet they all trim hands off. There are some aircraft that pilots universally love because of the way they handle. They have that almost indefinable something - a combination of responsiveness and stability that makes them a joy to fly. Two that come to mind for me are the Schweizer 1-26 sailplane, and believe it or not, the DC-10. The DC-10, big and heavy as it is, has "right now" control response with very little effort, and is also very stable. I notice a lot of similarity to the 1-26 with my Firestar, especially now with the spiral instability gone. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:19 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Spiral Instability --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 11:43 PM 5/30/05 -1000, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" > > of responsiveness and stability that makes them a joy to fly. Two that come to mind for me are the Schweizer 1-26 sailplane, and believe it or not, the DC-10. The DC-10, big and heavy as it is, has "right now" control response with very little effort, and is also very stable. I notice a lot of similarity to the 1-26 with my Firestar, especially now with the spiral instability gone. > David, The Schweizer 1-26 is a fun plane to fly. The most tense time in flying it was on take off. I had to slide my hand down on the bottom of the stick and rest my wrist on my leg to keep from over controlling at the start of the tow. It would just seem to pop up and one had to be careful to not pop it back down too far and hit the runway. It is the only plane I have flown that did not seem to require stick displacement but only light pressure on the stick. This experience with the 1-26 is the primary motive for modifying the FireFly. One should not need strength training to be able to fly an aircraft with a 500 pound gross weight limit. Now if I could get rid of the noise....... Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:13 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: stabilizer incidence From: "Rex Rodebush" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" Jim, I also bought the adjustable brackets a few years ago because Kolb keep changing the recommended location of the stabilizer. It changed from about the middle of the fuselage tube to towards the top and then maybe back again. Where did you finally position it with respect to the top of the tube? Congratulations on your first flight! Thanks, Rex Rodebush Building a Mark III Xtra Time: 02:09:48 PM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" All This is a little late but my MK III X received it airworthiness certificate on 7 May and I flew it's first flight on 14 May. The horizontal stabilizer incidence was way off, I had to hold stick forward as far as I could stretch my arms. After researching the archives and reading Guy Swenson's comments on the HZ stab incidence and talking to Bill Futrell, I had TNK send me one of the adjustable brackets(thanks Donny,Travis and Denny). I brought the LE up 2 5/8" and it solved the problem. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:02 AM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: Re: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung possums, Please give us a little more information on your use of VG's. What was the actual reduction in stall speed? How many did you use and in what positions? Did you buy them or make them? Which design did you use? My Firestar stalls at 39, and I would like to to fly slower. I tried VG's once before without success, but I may try again. John Jung Firestar II On May 30, 2005, at 11:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums > > This weekend I've got my stall speed down to 28 mph with the VGs=96 > true air > speed with a =93Hall Air Speed Indicator=94 located on the out side of > the > cockpit. do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:57 AM PST US From: Terry Frantz Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer Fly-In --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Frantz Denny Rowe wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > >Kolbers, >Came to the realization yesterday morning that the second annual Homers place fly-in is out of my reach this year due to set backs on my hanger construction as well as other events out of my control. >In fact its looking more and more like aviating at all during what we jokingly refer to as Summer, may be out. >I hope all who make it have a fun and safe time and hopefully by next Spring I'll have my deal ready . > >Denny "singing the no hanger blues" Rowe > > > > Denny, Say it isn't so!!!! Sorry to hear you will again miss out on the Fathers Day Fly-in to Homer's. I was looking forward to meeting you and your wife this year. Missed you at Shrevesport North last year. Hope you can get your problems resolved quickly and possibly still make the trip. Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:06 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Tail Wheel Weight --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Ed, When you do your weight and balance be aware the plane doesn't sit in the normal 3 point attitude, the tail must be elevated (raised) to its flying attitude. Follow the instructions in the builders manual. jerb At 02:23 PM 5/27/05 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com > >Firefliers, > > I would be indebted to any firefly owners that know how much weight > is on >their tailwheel , or would be willing to weigh at the tailwheel. I have a >per plans Firefly # 062, and weigh about 170 lbs and I have not done a >weight >and balance. I figure if there are Fireflies flying out there that have a >greater tail wheel weight than mine I should be OK! > > > Ed ( in Houston, 1 hour break-in on engine) > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:33 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Firefly --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Jack, When you state the wing is overloaded, I don't believe it is structurally over loaded per say based upon the way it built but rather to carry the load (lbs/sq/ft of wing) the minimum stall speed would slightly increase from the from the value based upon a 500# gross figure. jerb At 05:41 PM 5/27/05 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > >At 05:21 PM 5/26/05 -0700, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "nmatthew" > > > >The total weight of me, fuel and gear is 562#. (I am 220) Full throttle > >RPM is 6200 RPM. I can't hold that because the CHT approaches 400. I > >cruse at about 65MPH and 5800 RPM. I've never verified the accuracy of > >the tach, but I'll do it this weekend. No enclosure or windshield, nose > >cone only. The longest I've flown on 5 gal is 1hr 5 min, I might have > >had 10 minutes left but I doubt it. > > > >I will also check the temps accurately this weekend, I only use them to > >avoid overheating, so I don't know where they run. > > > >I have a two blade adjustable prop. Any suggestions on adjusting it? > > > >Matthew North > >Tucson, AZ > >Matt, > >In comparison to the stock FireFly, you are flying an overloaded wing. The >gross weight recommended for the FireFly is 500 pounds. To carry the extra >62 pounds means the wing has to work harder. The wing can do this only by >flying/cruising at a higher angle of attack. This translates into increased >drag which eats up additional horsepower and fuel. > >To get better fuel burn, you can loose weight and/or chop weight off the >Firefly, or you can add more wing. All of these options are >difficult. > >You have to make a de lima. What are your stall speeds? > >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Winchester, IN > > >Jack & Louise Hart >jbhart@ldd.net > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:47 PM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb fatal crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson To all, I regret to report a fatal accident with a Kolb UltraStar last Sunday at Tullahoma,TN. A very successful ultralight flyin was held Saturday and Sunday with a large participation of various planes and exhibits. I don't have all the details of the incident yet but I'll get them and post here. Preliminary data indicates the Kolb had been recently purchased from someone in Chattanooga, TN by a Mr. Primm who had cleaned it up, added a nose cone and painted everything. He failed to see a rusted out area somewhere on a wing strut and that is where it failed. He deployed a ballistic chute but was too low for it to function. These are the facts I know at the moment. When I get more I will add them. I was at the flyin on Saturday and inspected the UltraStar, thought it looked good and waited around for quite awhile to talk to the owner since I have an UltraStar, but had to leave before he showed up. Hidden rust can sure ruin your day. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:52 PM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" Larry Thanks. I even thought about delaying my report of the first flight until after you but .......... Anyway hurry up and let's go flying. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > Congratulations, Jim. That's gotta be a great feeling. You're an > inspiration.......hopefully I'll join you soon............now listen to the > nay-sayers. :-) The guys at MV ragged me to where I gotta get it done. > Lar. Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Building Kolb Mk III > N78LB Vamoose > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Ballenger" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" > > > > All > > > > This is a little late but my MK III X received it airworthiness > > certificate on 7 May and I flew it's first flight on 14 May. The > > horizontal stabilizer incidence was way off, I had to hold stick forward > > as far as I could stretch my arms. After researching the archives and > > reading Guy Swenson's comments on the HZ stab incidence and talking to > > Bill Futrell, I had TNK send me one of the adjustable brackets(thanks > > Donny,Travis and Denny). I brought the LE up 2 5/8" and it solved the > > problem. The next issue to deal with was the heavy ailerons. I moved > > the push rods in one inch as many of you have and it did the trick, > > (thanks). The next problem was to trim the ailerons and rudder. I used > > the lexan as TNK manual describes and it works great. I can now fly > > without my legs getting tried from holding rudder and my arm from holding > > aileron. > > > > Some very preliminary stats are it stalls at 38 mph IAS. It will do 72 > > mph IAS at 5400 rpm and 92 mph IAS WOT, 6270 rpm. I ended up using a > > Rotax 582 with a 3 bladed 66" tapered tips Warp drive prop and have it > > pitched at 10.5 degrees. I am monitoring the engine with an EIS and so > > far it's great, a super piece of equipment. > > > > My EGT and CHT reading are all well with specs but my water temp will > > redline (175 degree) on a climb. I have the twin radiators and have some > > obstructions in front of them. I plan on rearranging my coolant overflow > > tank and mounting an air scoop on the muffler side to get more air flow to > > the radiator due to the oil tank location. > > > > Any way I want to thank all of you who share your expertise and opinions > > on the list. It certainly helped me with the building. Now I need to > > learn to land the MK III. It seems to just flop down the last foot or so. > > It's not a pretty landing or even a good one but it's on the ground in one > > piece and nothing bent so far. > > > > Jim Ballenger > > Selling a FS KXP 447 > > Flying a MK III X 582 > > Virginia Beach, VA > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:54 PM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: stabilizer incidence --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" Rex I ended up with the top of the stabilizer leading edge slightly higher than the boom tube. I left the original bracket on the tube and mounted the 4 hole adjustable bracket directly above it. I am extremely satisfied with the results. If you use the modified bracket by itself, make sure the top hole will allow the top of the stabilizer leading edge to be slightly above the boom tube. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex Rodebush" Subject: Kolb-List: stabilizer incidence > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" > > Jim, > > I also bought the adjustable brackets a few years ago because Kolb keep > changing the recommended location of the stabilizer. It changed from > about the middle of the fuselage tube to towards the top and then maybe > back again. > > Where did you finally position it with respect to the top of the tube? > > Congratulations on your first flight! > > Thanks, > > Rex Rodebush > Building a Mark III Xtra > > > Time: 02:09:48 PM PST US > From: "Jim Ballenger" > Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" > > All > > This is a little late but my MK III X received it airworthiness > certificate on > 7 May and I flew it's first flight on 14 May. The horizontal stabilizer > incidence > was way off, I had to hold stick forward as far as I could stretch my > arms. > After researching the archives and reading Guy Swenson's comments on the > HZ > stab incidence and talking to Bill Futrell, I had TNK send me one of the > adjustable > brackets(thanks Donny,Travis and Denny). I brought the LE up 2 5/8" > and it solved the problem. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:24 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 08:51 AM 5/31/2005, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > >possums, > >Please give us a little more information on your use of VG's. I'll just cut and paste from the archives - sorry to repeat myself - but you asked. Here's what they look like. You'll have to look close =96 they're small. http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/ I didn't expect them to do a lot - so I put them on with the double stick tape so I could remove them later. They're clear lexan and the tape matches my wing color - so you don't really notice them. They are pretty small and don't have any sharp pointed edges like the "homemade" ones do. My average cord (including the ailerons) is about 60 inches. The instructions say to use double stick tape until you find the optimum location or "sweet spot" and then glue them later. I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong. However mineral spirts seems to loosen & dissolve the glue if I ever want o move them or take them off. Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape It took more time to put the tape on each VG than it did to put the VGs on the plane. I was very impressed - and am going to leave them on. On take off I can point the nose up almost 35 degrees and hold the air speed just over 30 mph and it seems to just hang on the prop, and it really does seem to knock about 6 mph off my stall speed. Got a $30 Hall speed indicator out side the plane - it's more accurate than the one inside. I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for the amount of time and money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not just that you can fly slower, it's "how well" you can fly slower =96 that=92s what most impressed to me. 30 mph =96 no mush. I fly my plane slow - a lot. I have a 27' 9" wing span - actually have 42 on each wing. =96 I'll have to count them. Bought a hundred got about 18 left over. So I put two in each valley and used the 2.75 inch spacing guide to "kind of space them out" between each rib and false rib etc. Just a guess, but it seemed to work out OK. Wasn't really sure which one to use since I have scalloped wings and can't just space them out evenly over the length of the wings like you might do on a Cub. The instructions say VG's should be placed about 1% of the wingspan apart. The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the ailerons) back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise speed, too far back and they become ineffective. I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured through the middle of the cord of the wing. I used the T-square method - like Ben Ransom did on his homemade ones -for the set back and put them about 6 1/2 inches back from the LE. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html http://www.landshorter.com/ It takes two of these to equal on of the homemade ones. Guess it'll cost you $100 to find out if they work for you. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:37 PM PST US From: Michael Sharp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: Michael Sharp I just got back from Lost Wages, (got married again, for the last time.) After all the discussions of VG's here on the list i was looking at the heavy iron. The Boeing i was on had what looked like VG's on the wing inboard of the engine nacelle I asked the Capt if they were indeed VG's and he wasn't sure... Any big iron drivers out there?? were they VG's or just "stuff" on the wing? Inquiring minds... Do Not Archive Mike possums wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 08:51 AM 5/31/2005, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > >possums, > >Please give us a little more information on your use of VG's. I'll just cut and paste from the archives - sorry to repeat myself - but you asked. Here's what they look like. You'll have to look close =96 they're small. http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/ I didn't expect them to do a lot - so I put them on with the double stick tape so I could remove them later. They're clear lexan and the tape matches my wing color - so you don't really notice them. They are pretty small and don't have any sharp pointed edges like the "homemade" ones do. My average cord (including the ailerons) is about 60 inches. The instructions say to use double stick tape until you find the optimum location or "sweet spot" and then glue them later. I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong. However mineral spirts seems to loosen & dissolve the glue if I ever want o move them or take them off. Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape It took more time to put the tape on each VG than it did to put the VGs on the plane. I was very impressed - and am going to leave them on. On take off I can point the nose up almost 35 degrees and hold the air speed just over 30 mph and it seems to just hang on the prop, and it really does seem to knock about 6 mph off my stall speed. Got a $30 Hall speed indicator out side the plane - it's more accurate than the one inside. I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for the amount of time and money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not just that you can fly slower, it's "how well" you can fly slower =96 that=92s what most impressed to me. 30 mph =96 no mush. I fly my plane slow - a lot. I have a 27' 9" wing span - actually have 42 on each wing. =96 I'll have to count them. Bought a hundred got about 18 left over. So I put two in each valley and used the 2.75 inch spacing guide to "kind of space them out" between each rib and false rib etc. Just a guess, but it seemed to work out OK. Wasn't really sure which one to use since I have scalloped wings and can't just space them out evenly over the length of the wings like you might do on a Cub. The instructions say VG's should be placed about 1% of the wingspan apart. The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the ailerons) back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise speed, too far back and they become ineffective. I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured through the middle of the cord of the wing. I used the T-square method - like Ben Ransom did on his homemade ones -for the set back and put them about 6 1/2 inches back from the LE. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html http://www.landshorter.com/ It takes two of these to equal on of the homemade ones. Guess it'll cost you $100 to find out if they work for you. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:27 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 05:47 PM 5/31/2005, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Michael Sharp > >I just got back from Lost Wages, (got married again, for the last time.) > >After all the discussions of VG's here on the list i was looking at the >heavy iron. The Boeing i was on had what looked like VG's on the wing >inboard of the engine nacelle I asked the Capt if they were indeed VG's >and he wasn't sure... Any big iron drivers out there?? were they VG's or >just "stuff" on the wing? > >Inquiring minds... >Do Not Archive >Mike As Cub Crafters owner and CEO Jim Richmond puts it, you don't improve a Piper Cub; you refine it. Since many people buy Cubs for their STOL (short takeoff and landing) ability, vortex generators (VGs) are optional equipment on every Top Cub. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:59 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: vortex generators --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 05:47 PM 5/31/2005, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Michael Sharp > >I just got back from Lost Wages, (got married again, for the last time.) > >After all the discussions of VG's here on the list i was looking at the >heavy iron. The Boeing i was on had what looked like VG's on the wing >inboard of the engine nacelle I asked the Capt if they were indeed VG's >and he wasn't sure... Any big iron drivers out there?? were they VG's or >just "stuff" on the wing? > >Inquiring minds... >Do Not Archive >Mike Forgot the website - BTW don't pay these kind of prices they're only $1 each for the one I used. http://www.cubcrafters.com/cci/mp-vortexgenerators.asp ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Man, I'm glad you didn't do that ! ! ! I'd have a guilty conscience next year, and the year after, an'............ :-) Slowpoke Lar.......workin' on it again. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" > > Larry > Thanks. I even thought about delaying my report of the first flight until > after you but .......... Anyway hurry up and let's go flying. > Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bourne" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS > > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" >> >> Congratulations, Jim. That's gotta be a great feeling. You're an >> inspiration.......hopefully I'll join you soon............now listen to > the >> nay-sayers. :-) The guys at MV ragged me to where I gotta get it done. >> Lar. Do not Archive. >> >> Larry Bourne >> Palm Springs, CA >> Building Kolb Mk III >> N78LB Vamoose >> www.gogittum.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Ballenger" >> To: >> Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X N46319 TEST FLIGHTS >> >> >> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" >> > >> > All >> > >> > This is a little late but my MK III X received it airworthiness >> > certificate on 7 May and I flew it's first flight on 14 May. The >> > horizontal stabilizer incidence was way off, I had to hold stick >> > forward >> > as far as I could stretch my arms. After researching the archives and >> > reading Guy Swenson's comments on the HZ stab incidence and talking to >> > Bill Futrell, I had TNK send me one of the adjustable brackets(thanks >> > Donny,Travis and Denny). I brought the LE up 2 5/8" and it solved the >> > problem. The next issue to deal with was the heavy ailerons. I moved >> > the push rods in one inch as many of you have and it did the trick, >> > (thanks). The next problem was to trim the ailerons and rudder. I >> > used >> > the lexan as TNK manual describes and it works great. I can now fly >> > without my legs getting tried from holding rudder and my arm from > holding >> > aileron. >> > >> > Some very preliminary stats are it stalls at 38 mph IAS. It will do 72 >> > mph IAS at 5400 rpm and 92 mph IAS WOT, 6270 rpm. I ended up using a >> > Rotax 582 with a 3 bladed 66" tapered tips Warp drive prop and have it >> > pitched at 10.5 degrees. I am monitoring the engine with an EIS and so >> > far it's great, a super piece of equipment. >> > >> > My EGT and CHT reading are all well with specs but my water temp will >> > redline (175 degree) on a climb. I have the twin radiators and have > some >> > obstructions in front of them. I plan on rearranging my coolant > overflow >> > tank and mounting an air scoop on the muffler side to get more air flow > to >> > the radiator due to the oil tank location. >> > >> > Any way I want to thank all of you who share your expertise and >> > opinions >> > on the list. It certainly helped me with the building. Now I need to >> > learn to land the MK III. It seems to just flop down the last foot or > so. >> > It's not a pretty landing or even a good one but it's on the ground in > one >> > piece and nothing bent so far. >> > >> > Jim Ballenger >> > Selling a FS KXP 447 >> > Flying a MK III X 582 >> > Virginia Beach, VA >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:41 PM PST US From: Steve Kroll Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Spiral Instability --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <<<>>>> Richard, The same is true for my Mk2 (lacking in spiral stability) and that instability is compounded many times by the torque factor. I considered more dihedral also but it seems to me that adding dihedral might lower the effectiveness of the ailerons and rudder. Did you find that to be the case with either your FS2 or the Mk3 ? I shoot lots of pictures out of my bird so when I'm using the camera, I simply fly left handed. Steve Kroll ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:35 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Spiral Instability --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll > > <<< He told me there wasn't any. > He was right.>>>>> > > Richard, > > The same is true for my Mk2 (lacking in spiral stability) and that > instability is compounded many times by the torque factor. > > My Firestar wing has very little dihedral in the wing and used to have the tendency to keep on rolling before I put the VG's on. Not sure if it is just mine but it holds whatever angle I put it into since I installed them. Larry,Oregon ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:38 PM PST US From: "dama" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb fatal crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" As our fleet ages, it will be interesting to see where corrosion is found on airframes. It does not seem to be a major problem. I am curious to find out if this US spent a lot of time outside in 20+ years. Remember the Cub AD a few years ago? Non-sealed struts were corroding after a number of years... Kip http://www.springeraviation.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray anderson" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb fatal crash > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > To all, > I regret to report a fatal accident with a Kolb UltraStar last Sunday at Tullahoma,TN. A very successful ultralight flyin was held Saturday and Sunday with a large participation of various planes and exhibits. I don't have all the details of the incident yet but I'll get them and post here. Preliminary data indicates the Kolb had been recently purchased from someone in Chattanooga, TN by a Mr. Primm who had cleaned it up, added a nose cone and painted everything. He failed to see a rusted out area somewhere on a wing strut and that is where it failed. He deployed a ballistic chute but was too low for it to function. These are the facts I know at the moment. When I get more I will add them. > I was at the flyin on Saturday and inspected the UltraStar, thought it looked good and waited around for quite awhile to talk to the owner since I have an UltraStar, but had to leave before he showed up. > Hidden rust can sure ruin your day. > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:57 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb fatal crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 10:15 PM 5/31/2005, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" > >As our fleet ages, it will be interesting to see where corrosion is found on >airframes. It does not seem to be a major problem. I am curious to find out >if this US spent a lot of time outside in 20+ years. Remember the Cub AD a >few years ago? Non-sealed struts were corroding after a number of years... >Kip George Murphy took apart one our old 1985 original Firestars and found major problems inside the wings. Mostly rivets breaking loose on the ribs. But ....20 years is a long time. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:56 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Spiral Instability --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike No the Firestar actually flies very sweet, Ed took it to a local strip yesterday and let a local airplane maven fly it (This particular guy is an A & P, IA, ATP, Corporate Pilot, and owns TEN homebuilt/ultralight aircraft!!!) and his response was that it was delightful, and he wants one. And he said it was much more responsive than the current Hawk Classic. It will fly hands off very well, but as long as you give it a good dose of rudder, it turns as nicely as you could ask. Maybe if I ever get off my inertia, I might try adding some more dihedral to the MKIII. On the other hand, I don't care that it is unstable, but I guess that stability is a good thing. I like the MKIII as is, but I suppose I would like it better if it would fly hands off and still be as agile as it is now - why not? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 05:54 PM 5/31/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll > ><<< He told me there wasn't any. > He was right.>>>>> > >Richard, > >The same is true for my Mk2 (lacking in spiral stability) and that >instability is compounded many times by the torque factor. I considered >more dihedral also but it seems to me that adding dihedral might lower the >effectiveness of the ailerons and rudder. Did you find that to be the >case with either your FS2 or the Mk3 ? I shoot lots of pictures out of my >bird so when I'm using the camera, I simply fly left handed. > >Steve Kroll > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:29 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kendale bearings --> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com Group, I have found some 1 3/8 X 3/4 bearings at Northern Tools. They have Kendale Ind. stamped on them. Are these any better than the Chineese bearings ? Also , what Idle speed is best for the 447 Rotax? Ed (in Hou.)