Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2005 (Scott Trask)
2. 06:51 AM - Tony Oneils Mk-3 for sale (Denny Rowe)
3. 08:07 AM - Re: Maximum Wind for Kolb Flying (Steve Kroll)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: " Rotax 503 Failure Poll", changed to, "Unpowered and Powere... (GeoR38@aol.com)
5. 09:27 AM - Walton crash (Edward Steuber)
6. 09:59 AM - Re: List Protocol (Steve Kroll)
7. 10:10 AM - Elevator linkage redesign (Rick Pearce)
8. 10:27 AM - Re: List Protocol (Matt Dralle)
9. 11:09 AM - Re: Walton crash (Ron)
10. 07:08 PM - Re: Walton crash (possums)
11. 08:38 PM - Re: Walton crash (Richard Pike)
12. 09:55 PM - Re: boom failure (Bill Peterson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2005 |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Scott Trask <sctrask@diisd.org>
on 7/2/05 7:54 AM, John Hauck at jhauck@elmore.rr.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hi Scott:
>
> Thanks for the invite.
>
> Not sure what I am going to do for Oshkosh, but if I get up your way,
> I will certainly stop in for a visit.
>
> Are you going to be able to fly down to OSH|?
>
> john h
Hi John
Hope you can drop in this year via OSH. I will be flying the Kolb into OSH
hopefully with the guys. If I don't see you here I'll see you at OSH.
Scott Trask
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tony Oneils Mk-3 for sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
List,
Here is the vitals on Tony Oneals Mk-3 Extra , if you are looking for a ready to
fly Extra that is Extra SWEET, this may be your bird, he also may have components
you need.
Denny Rowe
PS: See the photoshare for pics posted recently.
Denny,
I finally got my rudder tab corrected. It flies with the ball centered.
Here is a list of the Mark III Xtra Cost items.
I would prefer to sell it as a whole if I can.
I want the buyer to sign a liability release document as a condition of sale.
The trailer is for sale also. It cost me about $7800
If you find an interested party have them email me or call my cell phone.
I have 17 hours on the airframe and engine at present.
Thanks
Tony
256-468-3021 cell
MARK III XTRA AIRFRAME
Kit 1 + Kit 2 TOTAL (Continental US) $11,558
MARK III XTRA AIRFRAME OPTIONS
Dual controls $450
Steel landing gear legs-pair, O'Brien brakes $425
Hydraulic disk brakes, single, O'Brien $630
Toe brake pedals, 2 master cyl., remote reservoir
Upholstery package, 2" molded, padded cushions only $325
Quick-build $3,695
Powder coat (white) All 4130 steel parts and fuselage tube $933
Powder coat dual control sticks (Second Stick Removable) $100
MARK III XTRA OTHER OPTIONS
BRS canister parachute - 1050 lb. rating $3,025 $3,025 I can
Shipping (from BRS) $98 $98 Remove
Poly-Fiber (Stits) Covering Kit $1,095 these Items
MARK III XTRA ENGINE OPTIONS
Rotax 912S Engine
Engine accessories (w/engine order)
(Accessories include Oil Cooler, Radiator, SS Exhaust, Kolb Accessory Kit)
TOTAL 912S ENGINE PKG. (Cont. US) $15,637 $15,637
PROPELLER OPTIONS
Warp Drive 3-blade, 70" dia., HPL hub, tapered tips $805 $805
4" prop spacer for 912 / 912S engine $295 $295
Ignition switch for electric starter (off-left-right-both-start) $95
INSTRUMENT OPTIONS
EIS Package, 4-stroke with built-in altimeter/ROC, wiring harness $735
3" Airspeed indicator $165
Custom wiring harness, available for FF, FS, Mark IIIC $178
Voltage regulator (only needed if installation has a battery $70
Dynon D10-A (10 instrument in one display) $2,000 $2,000
Ball type Bank Indicator $40 Cost of
Other Airframe
Paint $1,000 Less
Paint Labor $2,500 Engine
Graphics $1,200 BRS
Lynx Head sets, helmets & wiring $2,000 $2,000 Dynon D10A
ICOM radio and floor mount $1,000 $1,000 Headsets
Aircraft Ground Support Equipment to move airplane into trailers or hangers
$500 Radion
Total $50,554 $24,860 $25,694
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum Wind for Kolb Flying |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
Don,
Neither Real nor Windows media player in my puter were able to play your file :-(
But, sharing videos and pictures is a great way to enhance a flying story.
I hope a lot of guys in here pick up on the idea and start building files of
their exploits in their Kolbs. I was about to upgrade my digital still camera
but I think I'll get a digital video cam instead. It's probably THE best way
to capture the pure essense of flying.
Steve
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: " Rotax 503 Failure Poll", changed to, "Unpowered and |
Powere...
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 6/28/2005 6:38:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pj.ladd@btinternet.com writes:
The glider pilot never had the option to abort a landing.<
Of course he does as long as he has sufficient thermal fuel.>>
Hi Kirk,
No glider pilot with `sufficient thermal fuel` ever, ever, ever, considered
landing. He cerainly can`t institute a `go-round` because he he decided at
400 feet that he has cocked up the approach.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
and I say "hear, hear" to that .....it is the same reasoning that 2
sailboats within sight of each other on a lake constitutes a "race". No reason,
that
is just the way it is!!
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages, Fla
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Found this in my mail about the Walton crash....
http: www.jhnewsandguide.com/News.html
ED in Western NY
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: List Protocol |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
<<<<I believe the primary reason for sticking to the subject is to enable
us to find information in the archives.>>>>>
John, all
Can somebody explain to me why there are messages in the archives that go back
at least 3 years that clearly state "do not archive" on the message? It looks
to me like everything is archived.
Steve
do not archive
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 7
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| Subject: | Elevator linkage redesign |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
Has the elevator linkage been redesigned from the older Mark 3's? I am working
off of a old drawing book page 1&2 show rev 0 . I have a new fusalage and
parts and drawings are not matching.
Rick Pearce
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: List Protocol |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 09:59 AM 7/3/2005 Sunday, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Steve Kroll <muso2080@yahoo.com>
>
><<<<I believe the primary reason for sticking to the subject is to enable
> us to find information in the archives.>>>>>
>
>John, all
>
>Can somebody explain to me why there are messages in the archives
>that go back at least 3 years that clearly state "do not archive" on
>the message? It looks to me like everything is archived.
>
>Steve
>do not archive
I just searched the raw kolb-list archive files and found only a
batch of messages that had gotten archived that had the "do not
archive" string in them. This batch was specifically between May 16
2005 and May 21 2005 when I was having some filter issues with the
list server. Other than that, I found a few attempts to use the "do
not archive" flag that didn't meet the syntax criteria; for example "DNA" or
"do not archive" (note double spaces between the words "not" and
"archive") or if the "do not archive" get split across two lines.
Looks like its working to me...
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Walton crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
Both Kennedy JR and Walton should have other qualified people help
them. People like these who are of great benefit to society should have
some responsibility to the society, and they need to understand that
having a professional around to help them is the right thing to do.
Two great pillars in our society died because they neglected that
social responsibility. As is their right to do.
do not archive
===================================================
On Jul 3, 2005, at 9:26 AM, Edward Steuber wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber"
> <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
>
> Found this in my mail about the Walton crash....
> http: www.jhnewsandguide.com/News.html
>
> ED in Western NY
>
>
Have a great day!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Walton crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 02:08 PM 7/3/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
>
>Both Kennedy JR and Walton should have other qualified people help
>them. People like these who are of great benefit to society should have
>some responsibility to the society, and they need to understand that
>having a professional around to help them is the right thing to do.
>Two great pillars in our society died because they neglected that
>social responsibility. As is their right to do.
>
>Here's a detailed article about the crash from
>one of the Jackson Hole newspapers.
>
>
>By Angus M. Thuermer Jr.
>=A9 Jackson Hole News&Guide
>Walton's friends said the Wal-Mart heir, called
>by Forbes the 11th richest man in the world and
>worth about $18 billion, bought the plane several
>weeks ago on the East Coast. They said he
>attempted to fly it from Virginia to Wyoming.
>
>Along the way, Walton was forced to make a hard
>landing when the plane suddenly dropped from
>about 30 feet up. What forced the plane down is
>uncertain, but the impact damaged the landing gear, the sources said.
>
>One source said the plane went down in Nebraska.
>That incident forced Walton to haul the plane on
>a trailer the rest of the way to Jackson Hole.
>Once here, Walton, an experienced pilot who is
>also reported to have built his own motorcycle, worked to fix the problems.
>
>Friends of John T. Walton said Tuesday the
>aircraft he died in made a hard, forced landing
>that damaged landing gear as the Wal-Mart heir
>flew the ultra light from Virginia in recent weeks.
>
>The sources said Walton purchased the
>experimental aircraft from an owner in Virginia
>who constructed the plane in his garage. Walton
>had a troubled flight from Virginia and ended up
>towing the plane on a trailer the final leg to
>Jackson Hole, said the friends, who did not want
>their names included in this story.
>
>Walton died when the plane crashed at about 12:20
>p.m. on Monday after taking off from Jackson Hole
>Airport. He was its only passenger.
>
>The National Transportation Safety Board
>identified the "accident vehicle" as a CGS Hawk
>Arrow, which it called "an experimental,
>kit-built airplane." Michael Collins, a flight
>instructor at Jackson Hole Aviation who looked
>the plane over in a hanger before its final
>flight, said a Rotax engine powered it.
>
>After first turning the investigation over to
>Grand Teton National Park because of the nature
>of the aircraft, the federal agency reversed
>itself on Tuesday and decided it would lead a probe.
>
>Investigator Aaron Sauer of the NTSB's regional
>office in Denver made an initial examination of
>the wreckage on Tuesday and discussed the crash
>with National Park Service officials and local
>FAA inspectors. Sauer is the investigator in charge, the NTSB said.
>
>Officials at the NTSB were unavailable for
>comment Tuesday afternoon, and Sauer did not return a message left by phone.
>
>First flight after repairs
>
>The fatal flight on Monday was likely the first
>flight following repairs, they said.
>
>Walton crashed about a third of a mile north of
>the Jackson Hole Airport and 200 yards west of
>Highway 191. Witnesses said the plane was
>circling when it dove sharply into the ground.
>
>Rain clouds surrounded Jackson Hole, and wind
>from the south was gusting to 13 mph about two
>hours after the crash. Planes on Tuesday
>afternoon were landing and taking off to the
>south. The orientation of the crash and debris
>was consistent with the path of an aircraft approaching for a landing.
>
>While the cause of the crash remains unknown,
>community members recognized Walton as a
>soft-spoken, intelligent and low-key
>philanthropist dedicated to improving education.
>He also loved the outdoors: He skied the Jackson
>Hole backcountry and went on mountain bike trips to Moab, Utah.
>
>"He was really a quiet kind of private, humble
>guy," said Jack Shea, head of Teton Science
>Schools, who took Walton on his first hike to the
>summit of 10,086-foot-high Mount Glory for a ski
>descent. "He was a dedicated dad, a great husband
>to Christy, smart and talented as hell.
>
>"He was the kind of guy I wouldn't mind being
>stuck on a desert island with," Shea said. "You
>knew you would survive. He could fix anything. He
>was a great conversationalist."
>
>Walton's son, Lukas, graduated this spring from
>Teton Science Schools' Journeys School. Walton
>was a financial contributor to that institution,
>but also pitched in on parents' workday, Shea said.
>
>One day he spent five hours constructing a fence
>to keep balls from going into an irrigation
>ditch, Shea said. "That was the kind of guy he was," he said.
>
>Carol Peck, a member of the board of Public
>Education Coalition, was impressed by Walton's
>depth of knowledge of education. Walton served at
>least four years on the board, even though his son attended a private school.
>
>"He was there because of his interest in public
>schools and the kids in the community," she said.
>Walton never flaunted his wealth or knowledge.
>
>"If you didn't know his background, you would
>have absolutely have no clue" he was rich or an
>expert in education, she said. "He didn't want to
>set the stage until other people discussed an
>issue. When asked, he was always interested in
>sharing his knowledge, which was very substantial."
>
>Gary Weiss, chairman of the Public Education
>Coalition, said Walton's inspiration led him to
>accept the leadership post. "His view is rising
>tides lift all boats," Weiss said. "We all need
>to work together =AD that message came loud and
>clear. It has been a touchstone for the PEC, and he'll be missed."
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Walton crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Since there has been a fair amount of rumor on the Kolb list about Walton's
crash, it would probably be good to hear what Chuck Slusarczyk has to say
about it.
Got this from a friend on a Hawk list. Apparently Angus Theurmer is a
reporter, and his remarks will have more carets ahead of them than Chuck's.
(Which may not have any, not sure how this will format out after I send it)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
Original Message-----
From: cgshawk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cgshawk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chuck Slusarczyk
Subject: [cgshawk] Ultralight crash-More Info Continued
Just a few comments on why you can't believe everything in the press.
>By Angus M. Thuermer Jr.
>Walton aircraft was troubled
>Before crash that killed Wal-Mart heir, plane
>had hard landing.
>Friends of John T. Walton said Tuesday the aircraft he died in made
>a hard, forced landing that damaged landing gear as the Wal-Mart
>heir flew the ultra light from Virginia in recent weeks.
The hard landing that occurred was reported directly to me by John
Walton in
a phone call. The plane was not "troubled". The hard landing was
caused by
the pilot not fully placing the flap handle into the flap detent which
resulted in the flaps retracking. The flaps went from 2 notches down
(about
25 degrees) to no flaps in a split second at an altitude of about 20 '-
30'.
This caused the plane to do a hard squat landing. This was told to me
"personally" by John Walton when he called to order parts to repair the
plane. To his credit, when he related to me what happened, one of the
first
things he said was "it was my own fault - not the plane's". No excuses,
no
accusations or looking for someone to blame. Just an honest guy being
honest
about what had happened.
>The sources said Walton purchased the experimental aircraft from an
>owner in Virginia who constructed the plane in his garage.
Not true, the kit was purchased from us in Ohio and delivered
to a
dealer in West Virginia. It
was constructed in a hangar at an airport, not a "garage". John
was
the only owner.
>Walton had a troubled flight from Virginia and ended up towing the
plane
on
>a trailer the final leg to Jackson Hole, said the friends, who did
>not want their names included in this story.
The only trouble John had was his bad landing from the above
mentioned
flap handle pilot error, and true enough, he trailered it home because
it
wasn't practical to repair it on the road. He was perfectly happy with
the
plane and how it was performing, and personally told me how much he was
enjoying flying it..
>Michael Collins, a flight instructor at Jackson
>Hole Aviation who looked the plane over in a hanger before its final
>flight, said a Rotax engine powered it.
It was powered by a Hirth 3701, not a Rotax.
>After first turning the investigation over to Grand Teton National
>Park because of the nature of the aircraft, the federal agency
>reversed itself on Tuesday and decided it would lead a probe.
>Investigator Aaron Sauer of the NTSB's regional office in Denver
>made an initial examination of the wreckage on Tuesday and discussed
>the crash with National Park Service officials and local FAA
>inspectors. Sauer is the investigator in charge, the NTSB said.
>Officials at the NTSB were unavailable for comment Tuesday
>afternoon, and Sauer did not return a message left by phone.
I have been in touch with Mr. Sauer, and at his request, I will not
discuss anything regarding the crash until after the official ruling is
made. So I respectfully suggest that these "reports" and any others be
taken
with a grain of salt, and certainly consider the source. In addition,
all
the speculation as to what happened by all the self appointed experts
on
this, and other lists, is just that ..."speculation". So please in
respect
to John Walton, his family, and to aviation, let's keep any discourse
civil,
respectful, and accurate.
Respectfully submitted
Chuck Slusarczyk,Pres
CGS Aviation
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: boom failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Peterson" <b1bookie@lycos.com>
I have been lurking on this list for about seven years and really have enjoyed
the subjects and the williness of all to help each other. I believe I can contribute
something to this list in regards to the 'boom tube' subject.
I had bought an 'Firestar' that was built in 1989 of which I am the fourth owner.
After building new seven ribed wings with a 503 I was ready to do some 'fast
taxies' and get used to the plane. The previous owners had a problem with 'nose-overs'
as was fairly typical reported by some on this list.
I was in to my fast taxie at about 40 mph when the nose went skidding into the
ground and came to a halt. I turned off my engine and couldn't figure out what
had happened. I stepped out of the 'bird' and the nose came back up only to see
that the tail boom had bent totally in half. After closer examination, I found
that the 'H' brace located inside the boom had failed. The sleive that is
welded to each side of the curved brace had broken at the weld. This slieve is
what the bolt goes through to hold the boom to the frame. I don't believe I could
have visualy seen the fatigue unless it were to show up around the aluminum
tube itself. I'm not trying to blame the bracing system, but I was wanting
to imform those that may have had numerous 'nose overs' that this could be a potential
problem especially for the ealier models.
I thank God that I hadn't gotten 'air-born' or I probably wouldn't be here to report
this. Anyway, if this prompts some of you to do a real through inspection
in this area and you find something, then this post will be worth something.
Thank you .......Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: boom failure
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>
> I purchased a Kolb MK 3 that was destroyed when a hanger fell on it. When
> rebuilding I noticed that the boom had been repaired. Upon investigation I
> found the tube had broken in a trailering incident. Support the boom when
> trailering. Don't let the plane sit on the tail wheel.
>
>
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